F1 2021 Season

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Jeff Navarro wrote:I’ve watched f1, and motorsports in general, for many years and I’ve never seen the bartering of penalties.

Beyond a joke.

Just finish under the SC

The most unfair and unluckiest finish to a Championship, if this restarts with Max right behind on fresh tyres. Would be a shame to finish and decide a title like that

Max has this from here.

Can’t believe it

Just Gareth wrote:That’s a red flag, surely

I think they should have red-flagged it so everyone can put fresh tyres on and have a 4-lap sprint.

As it stands it might end under the SC...

Whoa - Perez retiring for some reason.

Lapped cars not allowed through.

Just Gareth wrote:The most unfair and unluckiest finish to a Championship, if this restarts with Max right behind on fresh tyres. Would be a shame to finish and decide a title like that

Max has this from here.

Can’t believe it

Nah - race control have decided cars can't unlap themselves, so Max still has to pass a bunch before he gets to Lewis. Weird decision.

Dunno what Masi and co are doing today to be honest.

This was always going to be controversial

Cmon Lewis, just one lap

Unbelievable

They’ve just given max the title

Going to the courts

The one thing we didn't want today is this decided by strange stewarding, and this has just been something else.

Joke

F1

What a shame

OMFG

That is ludicrous by the FIA - absolutely ridiculous

F1 is in the gutter

Yep - an absolute joke.

Max on fresh soft tyres against Lewis on worn hard tyres - no contest.

Would be nice if race control would make a decision and stick to it, instead of making it up as they go.

A season defined by horrendous stewarding decisions from start to end, finishes on a race decided by horrendous stewarding decisions from start to end

That's why it was foolish to not pit Hamilton. He was always vulnerable to a safety car happening. Dumb from Mercedes. Latifi has won Verstappen the World Championship.

Mercedes couldn't pit Lewis in either case, they had to hold track position. If Lewis had pit, Max stays out and might have won it under the SC

If I'm being utterly objective, if Max had got the lead when he was supposed to, he may well have won anyway.

But Race Control and the stewards' decisions have been laughable once again and completely removed the impression of clean, fair racing.

I think over 21 races that is the right outcome. But what a way to get there. Suspect we might have some stewarding turnover this winter

GSC wrote:A season defined by horrendous stewarding decisions from start to end, finishes on a race decided by horrendous stewarding decisions from start to end

I mean I’d like to have seen Max win, but that is just shambolic by the FIA. You can’t make one decision and then change it like that!
If they’d have done the usual protocols then fair enough, but that was a shambles

What an awful way for the sport to end such a good season. Masi can’t be kept

Abuse of the laws. This will go to the courts. Process was not followed correctly.

The usual protocols were to let the lapped cars through earlier. Masi and co have just been making it up as they go along.

If they were intent on letting the race end with some laps, why didn’t they red flag it like they did at the end of Baku?

GSC wrote:Mercedes couldn't pit Lewis in either case, they had to hold track position. If Lewis had pit, Max stays out and might have won it under the SC

As it panned out, it was a total fluke and the SC came at the perfect time for Max. Had it happened any other way, the title was Lewis'.

But that said, Merc were paralysed by the fear of losing track position...not for the first time. They really need to start trusting Lewis to be able to overtake if he needs to. Otherwise they will find themselves in more situations like this, where Lewis has no chance of defending (or attacking).

Eh, I think over the course of the season both Max and Lewis would have been worthy champions, and I say that as a Hamilton fan. Pleased for Max in a way, and for F1 to have a new winner.

But goodness me the decision-making by Race control etc., just an absolute joke.

They definitely couldn't pit under the SC for fear of no restart. RB could just do the opposite with nothing to lose

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:If they were intent on letting the race end with some laps, why didn’t they red flag it like they did at the end of Baku?

That would have been the best option by far.

Safest for the marshals and recovery crew. Would also give the drivers the chance to put on new tyres and have a straight 4-lap fight to the end.

But common sense seems in short supply in the FIA.

Yeah don't think Mercedes could have pitted under the SC. Whether they should have pitted under the VSC is another question. Yes, they'd have given up track position, but would have been fairly close to Max, and it did look like Lewis had the race pace advantage throughout. Max even on much younger tyres didn't really make up much ground after the VSC (took a few seconds out in the first few laps, but gap didn't come down much afterwards). Then again, without the SC, Lewis would have held on comfortably, so...

I don't agree with that. They have to treat it like any other race, you can't just throw a red flag to have a great finish. Just a strange series of decisions, ultimately getting the lapped cars out of the way was right, but how they got there was horrible

If Hamilton had pitted around lap 36/37 (VSC) he would have still won. He may have lost track position temporarily, but he would have soon regained it as the race pace of his car was superior to Verstappen/Perez. Expecting Hamilton to go to the end on those wrecked tires is essentially gambling that there would be no safety car in the final ten laps, which is a foolish gamble.

Feel sorry for Hamilton because he bossed that race, but got let down by his own team and the FIA. Verstappen isn't a champion, that's no way to win. Farce.

GSC wrote:They definitely couldn't pit under the SC for fear of no restart. RB could just do the opposite with nothing to lose

True, but that goes back to their failure to pit under the VSC. There were still 20-odd laps to go and Lewis' tyres were over 20 laps old at that stage.

You can't box yourself into a position where you refuse to (or literally can't) pit your driver. In Lewis they have arguably the most capable wheel to wheel racer in the sport. They need to trust him to be able to do the business on the track.

Even on hard tyres that were shot, he still managed to give Max a bit of a scare on the final lap. Imagine if he'd been on newer mediums...

Feel a bit for Max too - he’s driven an incredible season, but ultimately that won’t be remembered in history. FIA/Masi incompetence is the main headline, all this second half of the season

Hamilton very classy as ever in his interview. Fair play to him, can’t imagine how gutted he is

Genuine question: can anyone remember a case where the instruction has been for cars not to unlap themselves under the SC? I'm not sure I can. Any idea on the logic? Just wanting to be sure they would be able to re-start, and worried that sorting the order out would take too much time? Just seemed a strange call at the time.

Masi has to go really. His authority just seemed to deflate throughout the season, allowing the top two teams to openly negotiate with him on the radio about what should/shouldn't happen.

Still, at least we got some great drama at the death, and congratulations to Max. For all that sometimes he crossed the line in my view, he also drove superbly throughout the season for the most part, is clearly a special talent, and it's good that he has a title to show for it.

As an aside the whole safety car business is one thing I dislike about F1. One driver can build up a solid lead over another driver through good racing, then if some other driver well down the pecking order crashes then that lead, and all the good racing that the lead driver did, is effectively eliminated.

Yeah I think Masi intially bottled under pressure from Toto who was asking for no SC from half distance. Then bottled it again when the reaction came in

Were Lewis's tyres that shot? Prior to the SC he was pretty much matching Max's times, and maintaining a consistent pace, no? Felt like the tyres were mostly fine. OK, he was always going to struggle to hold off someone on completely new tyres, but I'm not sure it's entirely fair to blame Mercedes for the VSC non-pit call.

Credit to Lewis for the way he handled it publicly. Can't have been easy. He's now ended up on both sides of last lap championship drama

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Hamilton very classy as ever in his interview. Fair play to him, can’t imagine how gutted he is

‘We will see about next year"

Might call it a day, and it wouldn’t surprise me.

If the boot was on the other foot, RB/Max would of been the complete opposite of Lewis, post race

F1 lost me as a fan today

You can't run your race for fear for a SC outside of like Monaco and Singapore. It was the right strategy call and had the SC come out 2 laps earlier they would've boxed him again and won. They were in no man's land as to whether the race would restart and they lost the 50:50 call

Mind is literally blown by what I’ve seen. I wanted a clean fight in this race and we got that.
As I’ve said previously, Masi isn’t fit for purpose. Just as Jeddah some straight up crazy decisions.
But Mercedes also screwed up by now pitting under the VSC.
If we look objectively Verstappen probably the best driver in 2021. Hamilton showed why he’s got those 7 championships.
Incredible ending but can we please get a real race director.

GSC wrote:You can't run your race for fear for a SC outside of like Monaco and Singapore. It was the right strategy call and had the SC come out 2 laps earlier they would've boxed him again and won. They were in no man's land as to whether the race would restart and they lost the 50:50 call

Tend to agree with this. It's a bit strange though that the driver in the lead is essentially boxed in like this by incidents outside his control, which I guess comes back to Duty's point. Although I'm not sure I see an alternative. Maybe we simply shouldn't allow pitting under SC/VSC? But then of course the driver in the lead could still lose out, e.g. if they've built up a lead of more than a pit stop but are on used tyres they'll drop right back down after pitting.

Could you have some kind of staggered start instead, holding the gaps?

I'll say a small congrats to Max.

Over the season, he's had generally the faster car, as evidenced by having double the number of poles that Lewis managed.

If memory serves, most, if not all, his wins were clean and fair. That is, he was on pole and able to control the race.

When he drove dirty, Lewis either got the better of him, or they both ended up not finishing.

While Mercedes were clearly superior at some tracks (in race trim at least) they were mostly on the back foot and without Hamilton's superhuman driving, they would have been way behind Red Bull and wouldn't even have the constructor's title.

Anyway, enjoy your title Max. I have a feeling this season will provoke Mercedes - and Lewis - to reach new levels next season.

Just Gareth wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Hamilton very classy as ever in his interview. Fair play to him, can’t imagine how gutted he is

‘We will see about next year"

Might call it a day, and it wouldn’t surprise me.

If the boot was on the other foot, RB/Max would of been the complete opposite of Lewis, post race

F1 lost me as a fan today

F1 will have lost a lot of fans today, and turned off many potential new fans who may have been watching for the first time.

I don’t know what will happen re: potential Merc appeals but I hope the sport takes a look in the mirror and sorts out all this nonsense off the track

- Horner/Wolff have conducted themselves ridiculously during races. Trying to influence stewards during races needs to be outlawed (both guilty)
- clearly there is greyness in areas of the rules that need clarifying

German media reporting Mercedes will buy out Ocon deal from Renault if Hamilton retires...

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Really not a fan of Toto being on the radio trying to influence a non safety car - it should be totally down to the stewards/FIA based purely on safety of the drivers, not what benefits each team. Not a fan of how him and Horner have conducted themselves this season

It's increasingly seemed like a lot of people have gotten massively carried away by the media attention/drama and are just trying to make good tv.

What are you going to appeal. I'm sure it's all subject to a race directors decision is final clause during the race. And the outcome would be the result vacated even if they did win, they're not going to hand Lewis the win. They'll kick up a fuss internally and get some concessions (long overdue), but there isn't an avenue to changing the outcome of the title.

Jeff Navarro wrote:German media reporting Mercedes will buy out Ocon deal from Renault if Hamilton retires...

I think he’ll retire. Think he’s had enough of this circus now, and the cars are going to be less exciting, slower and heavier to drive. He’s achieved everything

Anyway over 21 races I think that is the right outcome. RB and Max were rampant before the season break, with the title race really only close due to Max being taken out at Silverstone and Hungary (by Mercedes drivers). Since then Mercedes have had the faster car on balance, but Max has still found crucial results when he had to, under absolutely relentless pressure from the greatness that is Lewis. The last few races leave a sour taste though.