URC Round 12

With the break in the 6 nations it's time for Round 12 of the URC.  The South African teams played their round 12 teams last weekend so just the European teams this weekend.

All games on Premier Sports, URC TV and Supersport. All kick off times UK and Ireland time.

Friday 18th February 2022

Cardiff v Zebre- Cardiff Arms Park- 19:35- BBC Wales, Mediaset POSTPONED
Munster v Edinburgh- Thomand Park- 19:35- TG4

Saturday 19th February 2022

Leinster v Ospreys- RDS Arena- 17:00- S4C- RTE 2
Scarlets v Connacht- Parc Y Scarletts- 19:35- S4C, TG4
Glasgow v Benetton- Scotstoun Stadium- 19:35

Sunday 20th February 2022

Dragons v Ulster- Rodney Parade- 14:00

Dragons v Ulster on Sunday?

Yep Sunday 2pm according to all the places I can see. Ulster should have a decent team for that with the most of our irish internationals being released

Cardiff v Zebre- BP win for Cardiff and puts them right in the hunt for playoffs though harder games to come. Interested to see if Zebre have changed anything since change of coach, not really effected by callups.
Munster v Edinburgh- Edinburgh only really have hard games left so the question is can they get a BP from this game, they could start dropping down the table.. Munster need a BP win if they want to stay in the hunt for top two.
Leinster v Ospreys- Ospreys away from home don't seem the same challange as at home. They will kick penalties but not sure that will be enough to beat Leinster. Probably BP win for Leinster as they kick to the corner with everything.
Scarlets v Connacht- Connacht may be out of the playoff spots (or barely hanging on) and Scarlets just holding on. Feel Scarlets should win at home as Connacht haven't been the best on the road. I think the loss puts Connacht to far behind to get a playoff spot.
Glasgow v Benetton- the match most like the reserves. Comes down to who is released but Glasgow should pick up 5pts and get a health win.
Dragons v Ulster- Ulster to win with BP. Less affected by call up and look to be pushing for that top two. Any BP is a good result for the dragons you would feel.

Current table based on points per game to show who is where.  I put in brackets what they get if they get a 4pt win and 0pt loss

Top 5
Leinster     3.78(3.80/3.40)
Ulster         3.60(3.64/3.27)
Glasgow    3.50(3.55/3.18)
Edinburgh  3.40(3.45/3.09)
Munster     3.22(3.30/2.90)

Chasing playoffs (6-11)
Ospreys     2.60(2.73/2.36)
Cardiff       2.57(2.75/2.25)
Stormers   2.56
Benetton   2.56(2.70/2.30)
Sharks       2.33
Scarlets     2.29(2.50/2.00)

Maybe Next year
Connacht  2.00(2.18/1.82)
Bulls          2.00
Dragons    1.38(1.67/1.22)
Lions         1.33
Zebre         0.14(0.63/0.13)

Cardiff v Zebre is off due to the red warning for weather in Wales tomorrow, will be rearranged for later in the season

neilthom7 wrote:Cardiff v Zebre is off due to the red warning for weather in Wales tomorrow, will be rearranged for later in the season

One of the European weeks should work. It's a nice game to have in hand for Cardiff but wonder if they will suffer match fitness issues without the run out.

I would expect so, there was definite drop off in the first game back for teams who had not played in multiple weeks earlier in the season. Cardiff have to travel to South Africa soon too so that will be a tough way to welcome them back into the season

Dragons: Josh Lewis; Jonah Holmes, Adam Warren, Aneurin Owen, Rio Dyer; Sam Davies, Gonzalo Bertranou; Greg Bateman, Taylor Davies, Chris Coleman, Joe Davies, Joe Maksymiw, Harri Keddie (c), Ollie Griffiths, Dan Baker

Replacements: TBC, Aki Seiuli, Mesake Doge, Huw Taylor, George Young, Rhodri Williams, Ioan Davies, Will Talbot-Davies

Ulster: Rob Lyttle; Robert Baloucoune, James Hume, Stuart McCloskey, Ben Moxham; Billy Burns, Nathan Doak; Andrew Warwick, John Andrew, Tom O'Toole, Kieran Treadwell, Sam Carter, David McCann, Marcus Rea, Nick Timoney

Replacements: Brad Roberts, Eric O'Sullivan, Marty Moore, Cormac Izuchukwu, Matty Rea, David Shanahan, Ian Madigan, Stewart Moore.

Not entirely sure why Ulster are missing the likes of Duane Vermuelen, Mike Lowry or Alan O'Connor, no reason stated for their absence but they weren't on any injury reports this week, weaker Ulster team than I was expecting

neilthom7 wrote:Dragons: Josh Lewis; Jonah Holmes, Adam Warren, Aneurin Owen, Rio Dyer; Sam Davies, Gonzalo Bertranou; Greg Bateman, Taylor Davies, Chris Coleman, Joe Davies, Joe Maksymiw, Harri Keddie (c), Ollie Griffiths, Dan Baker

Replacements: TBC, Aki Seiuli, Mesake Doge, Huw Taylor, George Young, Rhodri Williams, Ioan Davies, Will Talbot-Davies

Ulster: Rob Lyttle; Robert Baloucoune, James Hume, Stuart McCloskey, Ben Moxham; Billy Burns, Nathan Doak; Andrew Warwick, John Andrew, Tom O'Toole, Kieran Treadwell, Sam Carter, David McCann, Marcus Rea, Nick Timoney

Replacements: Brad Roberts, Eric O'Sullivan, Marty Moore, Cormac Izuchukwu, Matty Rea, David Shanahan, Ian Madigan, Stewart Moore.

That’s about as strong as the Dragons can go in the backs really, give or take an injury return or two. Which isn’t great! More worrying though is that we have pretty much a whole starting pack away with Wales (Dee, Brown, Rowlands, Carter, Moriarty, Basham, Wainwight). Only loosehead is not away on 6N duty, and we’ve put arguably our first choice LH (Doge) on the bench!

Dean Ryan has been having a bit of a moan about the non-release of players. Some have not featured for Wales, and are unlikely to (Brown and Carter for example) so for these they should really be realised back in the fallow weeks to allow some game time. For some of these they won’t play for a total of something like 2 months now. Just holding tackle bags in practice. I saw a quote from someone about prop Brown along the lines of: “Pivac is not playing him as Brown hasn’t played enough rugby, yet he won’t release him back to the Dragons to play any rugby!”

Dragons bench is rubbish. Hope TBC makes a big impact though. How it’s not decided whether we can name Dee is a joke.

Is Dee not with Wales? Or is it his suspension keeping him out (potentially)?

TBC sure makes a lot of squads, always performs well though and there when you need him

Farrell has been helpful in releasing players back to the provinces, particularly Ulster. It's not like he has given too many of then game time. I don't understand why international coaches don't release "fringe" players for the fallow weeks. Those most likely in the game day 23 I can understand. It does make we wonder about the likelihood of Timoney, Hume, O'Toole and Lowery getting gamete against Italy.

Anyway back to the URC. We do need a bonus point so hopefully our returnees and the lack of help to the Dragons gives us the best chance. Who ever said life (or rugby) was fair.

The Oracle wrote:Is Dee not with Wales? Or is it his suspension keeping him out (potentially)?

It was the suspension, but our argument was the wales games (and the course thing that Cuthbert did) should all count to the ban. URC should’ve said no really.

RiscaGame wrote:

The Oracle wrote:Is Dee not with Wales? Or is it his suspension keeping him out (potentially)?

It was the suspension, but our argument was the wales games (and the course thing that Cuthbert did) should all count to the ban. URC should’ve said no really.

Just read that he’s been cleared to play now. So that strengthens the options a little in our pack

Hat trick of tries for Zebo as Munster pick up a bonus point win v Edinburgh

Leinster get the win to hit the top of the table, with bonus point.

Connacht surprising me with the win and helps them get back in the playoff spots chase. Good to see them hold on for a win finally.

Not sure I agreed with the second yellow. He is some man if he can jump in the air as the kick is being taken and land were the player is going to be as he hits the ground. Runner is 5+m away running on a curve. He jumps sideways because the ball is getting hit sideways. No shot from behind the goal to see if the ball goes over him.

Strange game with both Scarlets and Connacht doing their best to avoid winning.

Thought the ref was overly harsh with the second yellow. The Connacht guy was going for charge down and didn't change his line. Does this incident go to the citing commission? Who knows what they will make of it.

Connacht did well to hang on in the end, agree with above that was a harsh yellow in my opinion. Glasgow also grinding out a win v Benetton puts them second ahead of the game tomorrow

Unclear wrote:Strange game with both Scarlets and Connacht doing their best to avoid winning.

Thought the ref was overly harsh with the second yellow.  The Connacht guy was going for charge down and didn't change his line.  Does this incident go to the citing commission?  Who knows what they will make of it.  

Think any red card does firstly to decide if the red card was correct and then possibly more. For me it wasn't even a penalty. Player kicking with right foot down the right hand touch line, means anyplayer coming from his left has to jump acoss his left to just past his right to try to block it. When he landed he didn't change his feet positions and is entitled to stand his ground. Should have been play on.

Glasgow on a gentle role, 5 in a row now. Not really setting the heather on fire on a filthy night at Scotstoun but seem to have discovered the art of winning ugly.

It is a good skill to have.

Dragons/Ulster game seems a little weather affected. Great run from Hume setting up the only score for Ulster, impressed Doak got the attempted conversion within 20m of the posts.

Brutal weather but Ulster the victory 12-0, that conversion from Doak was outstanding

Personally I thought Lyttle was due the player of the match award for the comedy missed kick, although the Dragons full back(?) tried to emulate it.

Crikey, didn’t realise the game was on at that time! I’ve missed it!

Being nilled at home. A new low

The Oracle wrote:Crikey, didn’t realise the game was on at that time! I’ve missed it!

Being nilled at home. A new low

Your problem was pressure .... low atmospheric pressure with consequent storm conditions making it a bit of a lottery.  As an Ulster fan I feel a little bit that we have missed getting a bonus point, but frankly given the conditions a win was good.

Only bad point was the Dragons prop substitute who tried to put a bit shoulder hit (not even a hint of wrapping arms) on Stewart Moore and got yellow carded.  Thankfully another Dragon had pretty much completed an excellent tackle and the prop pretty much missed his target.  He deserved the yellow for doing something so blatantly stupid and dangerous right in front of the ref.

Have to admit once again I am impressed my Dragons hardcore base of supporters, in terrible weather conditions to get nearly 4000 fans, esp for a team that lose most home games and are/have been near the bottom of the table for the best part of 20 years is impressive. If they had anything like the success Leinster had over the last 20 years they would need a bigger ground.

At the start of each season I always say what Dragons fans want is a team that can win most home games and at least be competitive in the ones they lose. Think the hardcore of Dragons fans deserve better.

Been hearing lots of good things about the pre-match stuff at Dragons today. Know a few people who took mini rugby teams down and they played a few matches against other mini teams, met the Dragons players, did a q&a and autographs, etc....... the usual stuff. But all done in torrential conditions! Lots on Twitter saying it was good too even if everyone was soaked. So some things to be thankful for even if the main event was another loss!

Some of the praise has been for the kick off time - while Sundays are never great a 3pm kickoff is great for families. Can’t please everyone of course, but 8pm on a Friday or Saturday doesn’t always suit families when the kids are getting home around 10.30pm. And if we’re trying to grow the game and get more support in the area then the more 3pm Saturday games we can get the better.

Dragons Academy is looking good. If Dean can fast track some of those guys through that wouldn't be a bad thing. It's probably safe to assume at this stage that a top 8 finish in the URC has passed us by.

That Ben Moa at 8 looks useful and dynamic. Also now is the time to start introducing Peard as well. If some of these youngsters can get some game time in now it will help them get used to the standard of the league.

The Dragons faithful is immense. Out of all the Regions if we were successful we totally would be getting 10K+ crowds. Only Cardiff could match those numbers but in reality a lot of the city are football fans. Gwent is the heartbeat of Welsh rugby.

Ironically North Wales has over a million population so why one of those regions doesn't move up there is beyond me. If I was the Ospreys that's were I would be headed over the next 5 years.

Scarlets were dire. I'd say pressure must be building there now. 4 Home Games left only and aside from the Dragons at home all of those look more difficult than the Connacht game. They needed to win that badly. Couple more defeats and I think the top 8 will be out of reach for them as well.

Cardiff and Ospreys probably are the only realistic welsh teams that can make the top 8 at this stage.

Connacht still going to have to fight tooth and nail to make the top 8. Next 4 games will be critical for them. Stormers (Home) Edinburgh (Away) Leinster (Home) Treviso (Away). They probably need to win 2 of those games to stay in the running. Potentially they could lose all 4.

Looking like a real interesting end of season run in. Expecting a strong SA push over March.

Going to get even tougher next year with a large amount of top SA players heading home if the summer if recent rumors are to be believed. Good for the league tough as clearly any side making the top 8 will really have to be playing well in the league.

Won't be good for the Welsh Regions though unless they can seriously revamp their squads for next year.

Hopefully the returning players to SA are a sign the URC is helping to pay bills.

For the playoffs it's safe to say that Zebre Lions and Dragons are out. Bulls, Connacht, Scarlets are under big pressure to stay in the fight and over the next 2 rounds one of them drop out.

Still think Edinburgh will get passed by a few more teams

Welshmushroom wrote:Dragons Academy is looking good.  If Dean can fast track some of those guys through that wouldn't be a bad thing.  It's probably safe to assume at this stage that a top 8 finish in the URC has passed us by.  

That Ben Moa at 8 looks useful and dynamic.  Also now is the time to start introducing Peard as well.  If some of these youngsters can get some game time in now it will help them get used to the standard of the league.  

The Dragons faithful is immense.  Out of all the Regions if we were successful we totally would be getting 10K+ crowds.  Only Cardiff could match those numbers but in reality a lot of the city are football fans.  Gwent is the heartbeat of Welsh rugby.

Ironically North Wales has over a million population so why one of those regions doesn't move up there is beyond me.  If I was the Ospreys that's were I would be headed over the next 5 years.

For some context, Moa was due to play for Cross Keys on the weekend. That's about as far from pro rugby as you can get before you enter Mickey taking territory.

For some more context, the capacity of Rodney Parade is now under 9k.

The population density of North Wales would tell you why it's a rugby wasteland and a commercial dead end for rugby. You can also add the 140 years of nothingness produced by rugby in North Wales in terms of a top team. And, for fun, you can add in the following: no suitable ground, infrastructure, player base or any logical, common sense reason to move from South Wales.

Brendan wrote:Hopefully the returning players to SA are a sign the URC is helping to pay bills.

For the playoffs it's safe to say that Zebre Lions and Dragons are out.  Bulls, Connacht, Scarlets are under big pressure to stay in the fight and over the next 2 rounds one of them drop out.

Still think Edinburgh will get passed by a few more teams

Isn't one due to pop up at Wasps next season?

PhilBB wrote:

Brendan wrote:Hopefully the returning players to SA are a sign the URC is helping to pay bills.

For the playoffs it's safe to say that Zebre Lions and Dragons are out.  Bulls, Connacht, Scarlets are under big pressure to stay in the fight and over the next 2 rounds one of them drop out.

Still think Edinburgh will get passed by a few more teams

Isn't one due to pop up at Wasps next season?

As a saying goes one swallow doesn't make a summer. I think we can say the SA teams have more money since joining the URC and are now able to bring players home that in years past would have gone to Japan or another NH team.

As Scarlets showed even the Welsh can outbid Wasps and as certain posters tell us the Welsh have shoestring budgets so how much money do Wasps really have.

Brendan wrote:

As a saying goes one swallow doesn't make a summer.  I think we can say the SA teams have more money since joining the URC and are now able to bring players home that in years past would have gone to Japan or another NH team.

As Scarlets showed even the Welsh can outbid Wasps and as certain posters tell us the Welsh have shoestring budgets so how much money do Wasps really have.

The salary cap is increasing in South African next year: https://www.news24.com/sport/rugby/unitedrugbychampionship/salary-cap-increased-for-sas-rugby-franchises-20211220

£3.2m is the new cap. Up £200k. I'm not sure if that's because of the URC.

Brendan wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

Brendan wrote:Hopefully the returning players to SA are a sign the URC is helping to pay bills.

For the playoffs it's safe to say that Zebre Lions and Dragons are out.  Bulls, Connacht, Scarlets are under big pressure to stay in the fight and over the next 2 rounds one of them drop out.

Still think Edinburgh will get passed by a few more teams

Isn't one due to pop up at Wasps next season?

As a saying goes one swallow doesn't make a summer.  I think we can say the SA teams have more money since joining the URC and are now able to bring players home that in years past would have gone to Japan or another NH team.

As Scarlets showed even the Welsh can outbid Wasps and as certain posters tell us the Welsh have shoestring budgets so how much money do Wasps really have.

I'm not sure what happened, but did Scarlets actually outbid them?  Or was he offloaded as they (and all of the Prem clubs) are trying to reduce their squad spend as part of the new salary cap?  Easy to outbid them if Wasps said 'We've got £0 to spend on him'!

The Oracle wrote:

I'm not sure what happened, but did Scarlets actually outbid them?  Or was he offloaded as they (and all of the Prem clubs) are trying to reduce their squad spend as part of the new salary cap?  Easy to outbid them if Wasps said 'We've got £0 to spend on him'!

You're right. He's at the end of his contract and Llanelli had the ability to offer more than Wasps could with the new cap.

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/vaea-fifita-scarlets-wasps-rugby-22881077

PhilBB wrote:

Brendan wrote:

As a saying goes one swallow doesn't make a summer.  I think we can say the SA teams have more money since joining the URC and are now able to bring players home that in years past would have gone to Japan or another NH team.

As Scarlets showed even the Welsh can outbid Wasps and as certain posters tell us the Welsh have shoestring budgets so how much money do Wasps really have.

The salary cap is increasing in South African next year: https://www.news24.com/sport/rugby/unitedrugbychampionship/salary-cap-increased-for-sas-rugby-franchises-20211220

£3.2m is the new cap. Up £200k. I'm not sure if that's because of the URC.

Well the cap isn't going up because of Super Rugby and if it was their domestic league it wouldn't be going up either. I guess we'll never know.

Brendan wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

Brendan wrote:Hopefully the returning players to SA are a sign the URC is helping to pay bills.

For the playoffs it's safe to say that Zebre Lions and Dragons are out.  Bulls, Connacht, Scarlets are under big pressure to stay in the fight and over the next 2 rounds one of them drop out.

Still think Edinburgh will get passed by a few more teams

Isn't one due to pop up at Wasps next season?

As a saying goes one swallow doesn't make a summer.  I think we can say the SA teams have more money since joining the URC and are now able to bring players home that in years past would have gone to Japan or another NH team.

As Scarlets showed even the Welsh can outbid Wasps and as certain posters tell us the Welsh have shoestring budgets so how much money do Wasps really have.

It seems that all is not quite how you paint it, judging by the lock moving from Glasgow to, erm, Wasps next season.

Penalty for Leinster just before halftime is a cowpat penalty, Guy jumps in the tackle and the Lion player gets penalised

Old Man wrote:Penalty for Leinster just before halftime is a cowpat penalty, Guy jumps in the tackle and the Lion player gets penalised

It's a penalty though as unfortunate as it is. The B & I Lions won a game in NZ due to a similar incident. Fair play to the Lions for putting up a good showing in the RDS, I thought Leinster would steamroller them but they really put it up to us.

Yes, at least theydidn't embarrass themselves, their execution close to the line was very poor though.

I just don't get how they can make so many errors in the opponent redzone, impatience when engaging the scrum under the posts, poor line out throwing, handling, ruck clearance etc.