Modern Brits that survive with the cream in the 80s..

No offence to Leigh Wood but Pedrosa..Sanchez..Esparragoza and Nelson are too good...Loses to Barry too.

Barker...Joke champion...Hagler..Kalambay..Leonard and Nunn play with him..

Calzaghe just because of his weight being in the middle of two divisions...168 was a non division in the 80s....Would I pick him against the above maybe Kalambay but thats it..at 160...Spinks destroys him and Hill outpoints him at 175.....

Hatton struggles with Arguello and Camacho....Whittaker plays with him as do Pryor and Taylor and Chavez..

However I still think some Brits have great careers in the 80s...

Lewis beats Holmes for me...and everyone else bar 86 Tyson..That's 40/60..

Haye In the early mid 80s would be hell for Qawi..Deleon and would cause Holy problems later...Stylistically and with his power..

Hamed...Could see him beat Pedrosa...Had a style that would confuse Nelson and Sanchez hated making the fight...Super bantam he dominates bar Gomez who  had a great leveller..But Hamed had more skill and great power too...

Three for a start...

I'd pick Calzaghe against Nunn and Leonard at Super Middleweight and think he beats both easily. Too big and a work rate neither could keep up with. He's not going to try and be smart against Ray like Hagler, he'll just swarm and outwork the smaller man. I don't see him being destroyed by anyone to be honest.

Again Hamed beats Pedroza with something to spare, never understood why he's rated lower when his resume is much deeper. No disrespect to Mcguigan but Barrera is a level or two above him.

Soul Requiem wrote:I'd pick Calzaghe against Nunn and Leonard at Super Middleweight and think he beats both easily. Too big and a work rate neither could keep up with. He's not going to try and be smart against Ray like Hagler, he'll just swarm and outwork the smaller man. I don't see him being destroyed by anyone to be honest.

Again Hamed beats Pedroza with something to spare, never understood why he's rated lower when his resume is much deeper. No disrespect to Mcguigan but Barrera is a level or two above him.

I'd pick him against them two at 168..But Murray Sutherland types were fighting for the title till around 88...Only the IBF had a champ till 87.

So it's hard to include it in a cream list... 168 wasn't a thing until Hearns v Leonard 2 really...But Joe is number 1 at that division for me.

So no disrespect to him...Loses to Nunn at 160 for me .Hagler too.. Tate v Calzaghe would be good

I actually think Pedroza is a torrid fight for Hamed if Naz can't get him out of there early. Can't see Hamed winning a decision based on his style / low output, and If he thought that Barrera was cagey, awkward and rough then that'll be doubled against Pedroza, who was also a better outside boxer than people remember to go along with that size, brute strength and stamina.

Very decent puncher's chance for Hamed early where Pedroza could be a little vulnerable, but if the fight goes past three or four rounds I see Pedroza winning more often than not.

Calzaghe against Leonard is a bit of a non-starter. Just not Ray's weight. His class would see him win rounds and I'd expect it to go the distance but I can't see him shutting down Calzaghe's output or discouraging him.

I think I'd disagree with you on Calzaghe-Hill, Truss. Hill was a very tidy boxer, good fitness and well-drilled but he didn't adapt very well when he couldn't box at his own pace in my opinion. He also looked quite poor against a left-hander in Del Valle who would have beaten him had he stepped up his work rate. That wouldn't have been a problem for Calzaghe here as Hill didn't have the short punches inside, smothering or strength to reduce Calzaghe's output, which was often how guys made him look bad or ran him close (Starie, Salem, Bika, Hopkins etc.). Hill was the slightly bigger guy but I'm not sure that's really relevant here and I'd take Calzaghe to win a decision.

But the early eighties in particular was a freakishly deep time for quality. Stop the clocks early in 1982, for instance, and in the classic divisions from Heavy down to Fly you've got a list of divisional rulers (or great fighters who were at least on their way to that status) reading: Holmes, Spinks, Hagler, Leonard, Arguello, Sanchez, Pintor and Laciar, not to mention Pryor and Gomez chucked in at Light-Welter and Super-Bantam respectively.

88Chris05 wrote:I actually think Pedroza is a torrid fight for Hamed if Naz can't get him out of there early. Can't see Hamed winning a decision based on his style  / low output, and If he thought that Barrera was cagey, awkward and rough then that'll be doubled against Pedroza, who was also a better outside boxer than people remember to go along with that size, brute strength and stamina.

Very decent puncher's chance for Hamed early where Pedroza could be a little vulnerable, but if the fight goes past three or four rounds I see Pedroza winning more often than not.

Calzaghe against Leonard is a bit of a non-starter. Just not Ray's weight. His class would see him win rounds and I'd expect it to go the distance but I can't see him shutting down Calzaghe's output or discouraging him.

I think I'd disagree with you on Calzaghe-Hill, Truss. Hill was a very tidy boxer, good fitness and well-drilled but he didn't adapt very well when he couldn't box at his own pace in my opinion. He also looked quite poor against a left-hander in Del Valle who would have beaten him had he stepped up his work rate. That wouldn't have been a problem for Calzaghe here as Hill didn't have the short punches inside, smothering or strength to reduce Calzaghe's output, which was often how guys made him look bad or ran him close (Starie, Salem, Bika, Hopkins etc.). Hill was the slightly bigger guy but I'm not sure that's really relevant here and I'd take Calzaghe to win a decision.

But the early eighties in particular was a freakishly deep time for quality. Stop the clocks early in 1982, for instance, and in the classic divisions from Heavy down to Fly you've got a list of divisional rulers (or great fighters who were at least on their way to that status) reading: Holmes, Spinks, Hagler, Leonard, Arguello, Sanchez, Pintor and Laciar, not to mention Pryor and Gomez chucked in at Light-Welter and Super-Bantam respectively.

You make the usual compelling case.....Of course I'd pick Calzaghe over Hill at 168.....But Hill was an ex Olympian and could probably take Calzaghe's shot at 175....Also was over 6ft and as well as being elusive would have height and reach advantages....Calzaghe would have to make the fight and Virgil would love that.....People forget Robin Reid and a few others when looking at Joe....

I'll stick up for Hamed against Pedroza......I saw Pedroza struggle with Taylor and Lockridge....and Laporte was controversial....Two pressure fighters and one dancer.....As with the Mcguigan fight...Pedrosa also had a relationship with foreign substances during fights....The end of the fifth ?? with Lockridge something happened which Duva wasn't happy about and registered a complaint.....Later on With Barry he has something cracked under his nose...

Olivares was a Bantam and Jose Caba types were where he excelled......Great fighter on paper but so is Ottke..

There's no doubt that Pedroza had his flaws, Truss, but so did Hamed and based on styles I'm not sure Naz is the kind of guy to make Pedroza uncomfortable the way Laporte and Lockridge did if he doesn't get that early knockout by catching Pedroza cold. Should add, I suppose, that Naz could win by disqualification with a more judicious referee as Pedroza, given Hamed's small stature, might feel emboldened to be even more cavalier with the rules than usual (which is saying something!). If Pedroza gets into the fight I don't see Hamed staying in range enough, working enough or being rough enough to win this too often, but that's just me.

Maybe I'm selling Hill short, I guess I just see him as one of those guys who'll always excel against a certain type based on styles and the match up but struggled to adapt a little bit when the parameters shifted. And some of his fights (especially in his second reign at 175) were very dull indeed.

Not a particularly easy fighter to place. Good enough to make that astonishing US Olympic team of '84 and only missed out on gold by a slither, but nobody really seemed too bothered about him when they were all turning professional. Main Events and the Duvas more or less shipped him after a couple of fights whereas they made a huge fuss over the rest of the team from the off and built their brand around them for the next decade. I guess his affinity with a state with virtually no boxing heritage, measured style and softly-spoken, agreeable nature meant they just didn't see much money in him.

Not that many seemed to rate his chances of becoming a world class pro either, because watching his first world title fight against Stewart it's clear from the coverage that Hill was seen as the underdog going in and the fight was attracting very little interest. But of that US team only Holyfield and Breland got to a world title before him, and while he's obviously a rung or two below Evander and Pernell, you'd have to say that Hill pretty much outdid the rest of them, including Taylor, Breland, Tate, Biggs etc. all of whom were seen as much bigger prospects.

Throwing a bit of Jello at the wall with the unheralded Olympian stuff...I think Chris.

Leo Randolph won a Gold in 76 and was unheralded too compared to Howard Davis types...Guess which one won a World title...Randolph was Boxing between 112 and 118 and it wasn't sexy..Davis was a lightweight which was..

Likewise McKinney won Gold and Hembrick won Jack but Hembrick had charisma and 168 was sexy with Toney..Benn etc..Hembrick was pretty much on the networks straightaway.

Hill had no charisma and 175 had Andries...Stewart and no glitz or potential...Unlike Taylor and Whitakker who had Camacho...Rosario...Pazienza. Nelson..Chavez..types hanging around..

Pedrosa's calling card is his mass of defences...Hill has record defences at 175..No difference between careers really..Anyone decent Pedrosa beat was controversial..

Stand with my claim that Joe can't hurt Hill at 175 and would have to chase a talented boxer with great feet.

I think you are tough on Hill but then you can throw it back at me maybe with Eusebio..

In fairness they both stunk a lot.