England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
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England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
First topic message reminder :
Must be assuming Southee can't be as ineffective again.
Must be assuming Southee can't be as ineffective again.
dummy_half- Posts : 6497
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
Century for Root. During Bairstow's magical summer, it's easy to forget Root's averaging over 100 this summer as well.
England cruising. It would take a CT 2013 final esque collapse to lose from here.
I'm not sure why India got the first ball changed. It was reversing and doing stuff for them.
England cruising. It would take a CT 2013 final esque collapse to lose from here.
I'm not sure why India got the first ball changed. It was reversing and doing stuff for them.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
Most Centuries for England since Strauss retired:
28 - Root
13 - Cook
11 - Stokes, YJB
6 - Ian Bell, Root in 2021
5 - Moeen, Root in 2022
Joke of a player.
28 - Root
13 - Cook
11 - Stokes, YJB
6 - Ian Bell, Root in 2021
5 - Moeen, Root in 2022
Joke of a player.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
Root's also got the most test centuries amongst currently active players, surpassing Smith and Kohli who are both on 27.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
Shastri saying there is no "spark" and no "jerk" amongst the Indian camp/fielders this morning - I'd like to point out Ravi he's stood at first slip mate
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
JDizzle wrote:Most Centuries for England since Strauss retired:
28 - Root
13 - Cook
11 - Stokes, YJB
6 - Ian Bell, Root in 2021
5 - Moeen, Root in 2022
Joke of a player.
On telly yesterday, Kevin Pietersen described Joe Root as England's greatest ever batsman
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
Hats off to these two batsmen
Vowed not to post until the job was done (yes I'm superstitious )
But I think it is safe to come in with this now...century each and a 250 run stand ! Just brilliant ...just finish it yourselves now chaps...
Vowed not to post until the job was done (yes I'm superstitious )
But I think it is safe to come in with this now...century each and a 250 run stand ! Just brilliant ...just finish it yourselves now chaps...
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
I'm a fan of Jonny Bairstow being this ridiculously good at batting. 250 used to be (and by used to, I literally mean a year ago) pretty close to game over, and yet this year, South Africa chased 240 for the loss of three wickets, chased 212 for the loss of three wickets, and now England have chased 275+ in four straight Tests. What the hell is happening?
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
England have cruised to a record chase of 378, after being 83/5 in the first innings. This is completely bizarre, but it is the new normal. It seems they could have chased 600. Root and Bairstow in the absolute form of their lives.
2-2 the series result. Disappointing overall result for England, they lost two tests from strong positions last year.
Roll on South Africa, I suppose.
2-2 the series result. Disappointing overall result for England, they lost two tests from strong positions last year.
Roll on South Africa, I suppose.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
I'll take the 2-2 series result, reckon if this was played last year it would have been 3-1 to India, the way England were playing at the time. Strange that this is a record chase but had little drama and doesn't even feel that special after the three previous Tests. This sort of thing surely can't last, but will definitely enjoy it whilst it's happening
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
Soul Requiem wrote:WOW
Think you have summed it up rather well there , Soul
That was frankly awesome . Though I am sure there will be nitpickers who still think this is all just a lot of luck & new manager bounce...
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
I said it after the New Zealand series and i'll say it again, in a match where every other bowler was going at pretty much 4 an over, a certain near 40 year old chucked down 41 over @ 2.5. He bowled more than anyone else in the match, had the best economy and took more wickets than anyone else.
Bairstow and Root will deservedly get all the plaudits today but that old man is still ridiculously good.
Bairstow and Root will deservedly get all the plaudits today but that old man is still ridiculously good.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
alfie wrote:Soul Requiem wrote:WOW
Think you have summed it up rather well there , Soul
That was frankly awesome . Though I am sure there will be nitpickers who still think this is all just a lot of luck & new manager bounce...
“Without tempting #Ashes fate why do sides batting 4th always have such trouble in Test run chases. Simply pitch deterioration or psychology?”
A prescient tweet by Ed Miliband that I still think about! I do think England have certainly demystified these big run chases in their minds and massive credit has to go to McCullum and Stokes for that.
But I do also believe it’s probably not sustainable, and this summer so far has been a perfect storm of flat pitches, the Dukes ball going like a sponge after 20 overs and two batters in the form of their lives!
Fingers crossed it carries on.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
Bairstow's scores this summer: 1, 16, 8, 136, 162, 71*, 106, 114*
Root's scores this summer: 11, 115*, 176, 3, 5, 86*, 31, 142*
Both have had a big hand in winning 3 of the 4 matches, the last two in tandem.
Root's scores this summer: 11, 115*, 176, 3, 5, 86*, 31, 142*
Both have had a big hand in winning 3 of the 4 matches, the last two in tandem.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
Don't really have the words to summarise that - in a bit of a state of shock/admiration for it all! What a victory - unbelievable
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
dummy_half wrote:Bairstow's scores this summer: 1, 16, 8, 136, 162, 71*, 106, 114*
Root's scores this summer: 11, 115*, 176, 3, 5, 86*, 31, 142*
Both have had a big hand in winning 3 of the 4 matches, the last two in tandem.
There were quite a few calls for Bairstow to be dropped after the first Test as well!
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
Interesting points there from JD ! I confess I'd never thought of Ed Miliband as a cricket pundit
Pretty clear the psychology is the big factor in the revolution of England's ability to chase in the fourth innings. Certainly pitch and ball conditions have been a factor - and it won't mean they succeed in chasing - well anything ! - in the future. But that doesn't matter too much really ...the confidence they've gained from the last four matches is surely going to assist them to compete in other circumstances - like having to bat first perhaps !
You'd think it's going to have opposing captains a bit anxious about timing declarations too ...
Pretty clear the psychology is the big factor in the revolution of England's ability to chase in the fourth innings. Certainly pitch and ball conditions have been a factor - and it won't mean they succeed in chasing - well anything ! - in the future. But that doesn't matter too much really ...the confidence they've gained from the last four matches is surely going to assist them to compete in other circumstances - like having to bat first perhaps !
You'd think it's going to have opposing captains a bit anxious about timing declarations too ...
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
Yep, I'm in a similar state of shock, Olly! It's not just that England have chased down 279, 299, 296 and 378, it's that they've done it so easily.
I do agree that it has been partially a perfect storm of good batting wickets and absolutely rubbish duke balls, but what has been most noticeable is the change of mindset for these fourth innings chases. I think the mindset is essentially - we're not going to get these runs batting at a normal rate of 2.5-3 runs per over, so let's go out there and smash it and see what happens. The only fourth innings chase that looks even close to normal was the first one v New Zealand, where they scored 279 in 79 overs at just over 3.5 an over, and that was mainly because Foakes dropped anchor to allow Root to score freely at the other end.
What I'm most curious about is England's difference between the first innings and the second:
1st test v New Zealand: 1st innings 141ao; 2nd innings 279/5
2nd test v New Zealand: 1st innings 539ao; 2nd innings 299/5
3rd test v New Zealand: 1st innings 55/6 to 360ao; 2nd innings 296/3
5th test v India: 83/5 to 284ao; 2nd innings 378/3.
With the exception of the second test, there's been a big improvement in the last innings. Is that the bowlers feeling the pressure of defending something? Is it that England feel more comfortable getting a specific target? Just a coincidence?
I agree that this, for now, is going to see a psychological test on the opposition captain. If the South African captain wins the toss in the first test next month, and sees a perfect pancake of a wicket on a gorgeous 28c day with not a cloud in the sky, is he still going to want to bat first?
We're approaching a point now, four of these chases in a row, that points away from 'statistical anomaly' and towards 'reinvention of the game', but still quite a way to go.
Now, how's Kohli feeling?
I do agree that it has been partially a perfect storm of good batting wickets and absolutely rubbish duke balls, but what has been most noticeable is the change of mindset for these fourth innings chases. I think the mindset is essentially - we're not going to get these runs batting at a normal rate of 2.5-3 runs per over, so let's go out there and smash it and see what happens. The only fourth innings chase that looks even close to normal was the first one v New Zealand, where they scored 279 in 79 overs at just over 3.5 an over, and that was mainly because Foakes dropped anchor to allow Root to score freely at the other end.
What I'm most curious about is England's difference between the first innings and the second:
1st test v New Zealand: 1st innings 141ao; 2nd innings 279/5
2nd test v New Zealand: 1st innings 539ao; 2nd innings 299/5
3rd test v New Zealand: 1st innings 55/6 to 360ao; 2nd innings 296/3
5th test v India: 83/5 to 284ao; 2nd innings 378/3.
With the exception of the second test, there's been a big improvement in the last innings. Is that the bowlers feeling the pressure of defending something? Is it that England feel more comfortable getting a specific target? Just a coincidence?
I agree that this, for now, is going to see a psychological test on the opposition captain. If the South African captain wins the toss in the first test next month, and sees a perfect pancake of a wicket on a gorgeous 28c day with not a cloud in the sky, is he still going to want to bat first?
We're approaching a point now, four of these chases in a row, that points away from 'statistical anomaly' and towards 'reinvention of the game', but still quite a way to go.
Now, how's Kohli feeling?
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
Ramprakash made a comment on the radio earlier, when Bairstow hit a 6 over the square leg fielder, that Bairstow isn't seeing risk at the moment, just opportunities. Must be such a good feeling to be batting with such a clear head, especially as he has over the years seemed to be a bit befuddled over how to deal with his technical weakness with the ball seaming in to middle and off - either got his front foot too far over and at risk of lbw or not enough and getting bowled through the gate - 2022 version just punches that ball through mid on...
Obviously the confidence of the run chases against NZ has permeated the side, plus the playing conditions have helped them - these versions of the Dukes ball do seem to go almost as dead as the Kookaburra after the opening burst, and the wickets have played relatively easily on the fifth day, with little variable bounce or spin. However, it is still remarkable to have strung together a sequence like the last 4 matches - today's was tied 8th highest 4th innings chase in history, with the others being 36th, 38th and just outside the top 50
Obviously the confidence of the run chases against NZ has permeated the side, plus the playing conditions have helped them - these versions of the Dukes ball do seem to go almost as dead as the Kookaburra after the opening burst, and the wickets have played relatively easily on the fifth day, with little variable bounce or spin. However, it is still remarkable to have strung together a sequence like the last 4 matches - today's was tied 8th highest 4th innings chase in history, with the others being 36th, 38th and just outside the top 50
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
Apparently in 145 years of Test cricket, there have only been 57 successful run chases of over 275. And England have just reeled off 4 in a row with total ease. Still haven’t got my head round how mad that is.
https://twitter.com/geofflemonsport/status/1544277895484280832?s=21&t=_RWOqJzFbxBgEUNpaeCVeA
https://twitter.com/geofflemonsport/status/1544277895484280832?s=21&t=_RWOqJzFbxBgEUNpaeCVeA
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
Duty281 wrote:...
We're approaching a point now, four of these chases in a row, that points away from 'statistical anomaly' and towards 'reinvention of the game', but still quite a way to go.
Now, how's Kohli feeling?
Maybe a bit soon to talk about reinvention of the game, but I think that the way ODI scores have increased in the last few years has had some influence on the mindset of teams chasing big targets - they often see scores of 300 to 350 in 50 overs and know how to chase it down. OK, it's a bit different on a fifth day pitch and without fielding restrictions, but there has to be some effect.
Also, big chases have become a bit more common generally, perhaps because of improved fitness and better wickets - 7 of the top 10 run chases of all time have happened since the turn of the millennium, with the eighth only 6 weeks before. 4 of those are since 2015.
Admittedly, England's aggressive approach is somewhat different from most, although the great Australian team of the 90s and 00s also liked to score fast - in their case it was more in the first innings, to try and set the game up.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
Possible stat of the day, on a day and several weeks where stats have been re-written at an alarming rate:
In November 2019, Virat Kohli had 27 Test centuries and Joe Root had 16.
Today, Virat Kohli has 27 Test centuries and Joe Root has 28.
In November 2019, Virat Kohli had 27 Test centuries and Joe Root had 16.
Today, Virat Kohli has 27 Test centuries and Joe Root has 28.
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alfie wrote:Won't be an England Test Match without some nail biting
Ha ! A post that didn't age well : Nails remained untouched. I confess I had doubted it would be quite that easy.
After the drama of TB and Headingley , this was more like the Lord's Test with Root and Foakes coasting home on the last morning. You can criticize India for some bowling choices ; but really that was just a completely professional job by two players in the form of their lives
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
dummy_half wrote:Ramprakash made a comment on the radio earlier, when Bairstow hit a 6 over the square leg fielder, that Bairstow isn't seeing risk at the moment, just opportunities. Must be such a good feeling to be batting with such a clear head, especially as he has over the years seemed to be a bit befuddled over how to deal with his technical weakness with the ball seaming in to middle and off - either got his front foot too far over and at risk of lbw or not enough and getting bowled through the gate - 2022 version just punches that ball through mid on...
Obviously the confidence of the run chases against NZ has permeated the side, plus the playing conditions have helped them - these versions of the Dukes ball do seem to go almost as dead as the Kookaburra after the opening burst, and the wickets have played relatively easily on the fifth day, with little variable bounce or spin. However, it is still remarkable to have strung together a sequence like the last 4 matches - today's was tied 8th highest 4th innings chase in history, with the others being 36th, 38th and just outside the top 50
Might just be time to put the old "YJB always gets bowled" thing aside : his career stats are indeed rather wild on that score ; but since returning to the side in 2021 he's played 33 innings and been out bowled in just 4 of them...so either this is a freak period or he has made a deliberate change in his technique. Hopefully the latter as I'm rather enjoying watching him bat lately !
Confidence and a clear mind are the main factors in these chases , I reckon. Sure the conditions of ground and ball have helped ; but does anyone think England would have got near any of those targets - or even attempted them - a year ago ?
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
alfie wrote:...
Might just be time to put the old "YJB always gets bowled" thing aside : his career stats are indeed rather wild on that score ; but since returning to the side in 2021 he's played 33 innings and been out bowled in just 4 of them...so either this is a freak period or he has made a deliberate change in his technique. Hopefully the latter as I'm rather enjoying watching him bat lately !
Confidence and a clear mind are the main factors in these chases , I reckon. Sure the conditions of ground and ball have helped ; but does anyone think England would have got near any of those targets - or even attempted them - a year ago ?
It would certainly be worth looking a bit more at the out bowled and out LBW with regards to Bairstow - has certainly in the past been an unusual area of weakness for someone who is otherwise at least a decent Test batsman (and outstanding ODI opener). Balls of good length, pitching on or just outside an off stump line and seaming back a bit have historically been a vulnerability, but one that he seems to have got on top on for now - my recollection is that a year or so ago, after getting over the spate of being bowled through the gate, he had a bit of a time getting out LBW because he was getting his front foot too much onto the line of the ball and then not having enough bat speed (unlike Steve Smith) to play towards mid wicket. Perhaps he's now managed to find the balance, or perhaps its just that he's playing so well he isn't missing the ball very often - it has been noted as to how still he is staying at the crease now, so perhaps is picking up the line of the ball a fraction earlier. I'd also be interested to see if he is defending the ball more within the V between mid off and mid on - my feel is that he is getting the bat through quite straight when he isn't give width.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
With Bairstow's technique he does have a tendency to plant his foot at the ball rather than next to it and try to play full balls with hard hands, hence early. This led to him getting out to some straight balls he should have been whacking in my opinion.
I did sometimes try to argue that just because he got out bowled and LWB by average deliveries didn't mean that sometimes he wasn't castled by good ones as well though.
This for instance is naturally a weakness for Bairstow but is also a weakness for basically all batters is it not? It's just another good example of why the wobble ball and seamers going wider on the crease is so useful. Due to the angle in from wider batters are playing at balls pitching wider but with the wobble ball sometimes coming in, sometimes out with almost no way to know it's incredibly difficult to face.
A bit like when pundits were grasping for suggestions on getting prime Punter out and as he had that 'forward press' as the bowler released they said he was vulnerable to length balls that moved away and bounced as his press forward and attacking instincts could make him square up trying to play back foot drives. Or he was vulnerable to length balls that seamed in and didn't bounce as he could be an LBW candidate with the desire to come forward. I remember hearing that stuff as a kid and thinking, "isn't that just cricket?" Really good deliveries are more likely to get someone out? A bit like when a batter smashes a ball on his stumps and someone says, "if he doesn't hit that he's in trouble". Yeah that's why he's got a bat mate...
I did sometimes try to argue that just because he got out bowled and LWB by average deliveries didn't mean that sometimes he wasn't castled by good ones as well though.
dummy_half wrote:Balls of good length, pitching on or just outside an off stump line and seaming back a bit have historically been a vulnerability
This for instance is naturally a weakness for Bairstow but is also a weakness for basically all batters is it not? It's just another good example of why the wobble ball and seamers going wider on the crease is so useful. Due to the angle in from wider batters are playing at balls pitching wider but with the wobble ball sometimes coming in, sometimes out with almost no way to know it's incredibly difficult to face.
A bit like when pundits were grasping for suggestions on getting prime Punter out and as he had that 'forward press' as the bowler released they said he was vulnerable to length balls that moved away and bounced as his press forward and attacking instincts could make him square up trying to play back foot drives. Or he was vulnerable to length balls that seamed in and didn't bounce as he could be an LBW candidate with the desire to come forward. I remember hearing that stuff as a kid and thinking, "isn't that just cricket?" Really good deliveries are more likely to get someone out? A bit like when a batter smashes a ball on his stumps and someone says, "if he doesn't hit that he's in trouble". Yeah that's why he's got a bat mate...
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
Sam Perry: Have we been playing cricket wrong for 140 years?
Ian Higgins: But Bairstow just kept being bowled. You just bowled at the stumps and he kept missing it. That's not to do with Covid. What was in his f***ing vaccine?
Cutting edge analysis from The Grade Cricketer boys as always.
Ian Higgins: But Bairstow just kept being bowled. You just bowled at the stumps and he kept missing it. That's not to do with Covid. What was in his f***ing vaccine?
Cutting edge analysis from The Grade Cricketer boys as always.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
From an Indian POV...this is their 3rd defeat in a row overseas.....all lost letting the opponent make difficult / historic & outrageous chases
what's common to all these defeat?
- All came in the post Kohli, Shastri era
-India missing a strategist / motivator / planner in the dressing room....Dravid obviously has not hit the ground running....and most likely lacks the fire power and aggression and hunger of Shastri
-At the front end the captains have been meek Rahul and Bumrah in 2 of those games...Kohli on field and stripped of powers is a shadow and to be honest minus Shastri I think he would have not achieved the same results he did.
-Also Bharat Arun the bowling coach who turned around the Indian pace attack is also gone...and his absence is visible
Minus the coaches and a carrot & stick yielding powerful captain.....its a bunch of nice guys trying hard, too hard, trying to blast of wickets...panicking quickly and getting desperate...patience and mental strength quite thin
In all these 3 games....we juts did not see the seam bowlers bowl line, length in corridor, dry up runs,....be patient.....instead they tried to bowl magic wicket taking balls every delivery.....too straight ...too full, spraying down the leg, over the top byes, leg byes....easy runs.
Cricket or for that matter professional sport is 50% talent and 50% planning, strategizing and mental toughness....and sadly for now in the 2nd 50% we have fallen woefully low
An era has passed ......Dravid has to be held responsible sooner than later
what's common to all these defeat?
- All came in the post Kohli, Shastri era
-India missing a strategist / motivator / planner in the dressing room....Dravid obviously has not hit the ground running....and most likely lacks the fire power and aggression and hunger of Shastri
-At the front end the captains have been meek Rahul and Bumrah in 2 of those games...Kohli on field and stripped of powers is a shadow and to be honest minus Shastri I think he would have not achieved the same results he did.
-Also Bharat Arun the bowling coach who turned around the Indian pace attack is also gone...and his absence is visible
Minus the coaches and a carrot & stick yielding powerful captain.....its a bunch of nice guys trying hard, too hard, trying to blast of wickets...panicking quickly and getting desperate...patience and mental strength quite thin
In all these 3 games....we juts did not see the seam bowlers bowl line, length in corridor, dry up runs,....be patient.....instead they tried to bowl magic wicket taking balls every delivery.....too straight ...too full, spraying down the leg, over the top byes, leg byes....easy runs.
Cricket or for that matter professional sport is 50% talent and 50% planning, strategizing and mental toughness....and sadly for now in the 2nd 50% we have fallen woefully low
An era has passed ......Dravid has to be held responsible sooner than later
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
Couldn't watch a ball yesterday, and as I fully expected, England had the chase well completed in the first session itself. I was hoping that may be Stokes, or may be Billings might be required at least for the finishing touch, but Root and Bairstow did the job brilliantly. Seemes Shami was terrible, and the Indian bowling, other than the skipper, had already given up.
Despite the last innings no-show from the bowlers, make no mistake, its the batters who lost this game for India, just like they did in the South Africa tests. The top 4 and Iyer didn't turn up in the first innings, and in the 2nd innings too, it was only Pujara... It is so sad that such a terrific performance from Rishabh Pant ended up on the losing side... Kohli shouldn't be playing all these limited over games scheduled for the rest of the year, and even his position in the T-20 lineup should be evaluated. I really don't think he's over the hill, but he needs a bit of a reset, a reinvention. He has been among the greatest ever limited overs batters, and his T-20 overall record is as good as anyone's. But India do have options without him. But India need a functional test batter in Kohli for some time. Don't think young Gill is quite ready, and I fear for Shreyas Iyer's test future, he has a serious short ball problem. Against proper quicks like Cummins, Rabada, the likes, he could struggle even in home conditions. Seems like he thinks I'd get as many as possible before a short ball gets me. I had high hopes of him... Vihari again not making a case for himself, and had the most crucial drop of the game also against his name. Its easy to say Pujara and Kohli are done, but if Iyer, Gill, Vihari, aren't able to step up, India will have a serious problem on their hands.
Despite the last innings no-show from the bowlers, make no mistake, its the batters who lost this game for India, just like they did in the South Africa tests. The top 4 and Iyer didn't turn up in the first innings, and in the 2nd innings too, it was only Pujara... It is so sad that such a terrific performance from Rishabh Pant ended up on the losing side... Kohli shouldn't be playing all these limited over games scheduled for the rest of the year, and even his position in the T-20 lineup should be evaluated. I really don't think he's over the hill, but he needs a bit of a reset, a reinvention. He has been among the greatest ever limited overs batters, and his T-20 overall record is as good as anyone's. But India do have options without him. But India need a functional test batter in Kohli for some time. Don't think young Gill is quite ready, and I fear for Shreyas Iyer's test future, he has a serious short ball problem. Against proper quicks like Cummins, Rabada, the likes, he could struggle even in home conditions. Seems like he thinks I'd get as many as possible before a short ball gets me. I had high hopes of him... Vihari again not making a case for himself, and had the most crucial drop of the game also against his name. Its easy to say Pujara and Kohli are done, but if Iyer, Gill, Vihari, aren't able to step up, India will have a serious problem on their hands.
msp83- Posts : 16223
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
Some excellent points there , msp. I agree it was a great pity that Pant's brilliant batting saw him on the losing side... just sometimes happens that truly heroic efforts aren't enough to carry their team to victory. Also agree Kohli needs a rest : whether he is really on the way out we might be better able to assess if he took a break and cleared his head a bit. Too good a player to bury lightly ; up to him to show if he still has it.
Wouldn't be too worried about Indian bowling : Shami had a bad last day , and Siraj and Thakur really didn't impress on a pitch that gave occasional assistance but didn't ever disintegrate as might have been hoped by the team batting first.
I did think Jadeja was poorly used : too much trying to hit footmarks outside the right hand bats' leg stump was only ever going to produce the odd maiden , but no wicket unless the batsman became suicidal...and since the seamers were neither holding down runs nor threatening on a consistent basis all that tactic could hope to do was delay the inevitable. As it was they were unable to even hold things up to a new ball : surely it would have been better to ask Jadeja to try and entice an error ? At worst , the game might have ended a few overs earlier... (Reminds me a bit of some failed defence tactics in limited over games : captains never bring the field up until it is far too late to stop the chasing team ; probably because it is psychologically more comfortable to spin things out in even certainly vain hope , rather than take a - slim - chance while there is still time to actually influence the result )
I think on this day you mainly just have to give credit to two batsmen in terrific form. You have plenty of fine bowling options.
Batting though : India will welcome back Rohit and Rahul. I do not really rate Gill or Vihari ; Pujara is still in my team every time even if he is getting ever closer to the end . Iyer looks a bit like a white ball star yet to work out this long game stuff - the talent is there ; needs to develop the judgement. I know you have other prospects (is Rahane definitely done , by the way ?) and reckon with the right openers back and all that late middle talent in Pant , Jadeja , Ashwin , India only need to make sure 4 and 5 are filled adequately to cover most situations.
I am sure Indian supporters will be disappointed in losing the match and only drawing a series they had looked nailed on to win. But I fancy they will still be back next year for another shot at the WTC.
Wouldn't be too worried about Indian bowling : Shami had a bad last day , and Siraj and Thakur really didn't impress on a pitch that gave occasional assistance but didn't ever disintegrate as might have been hoped by the team batting first.
I did think Jadeja was poorly used : too much trying to hit footmarks outside the right hand bats' leg stump was only ever going to produce the odd maiden , but no wicket unless the batsman became suicidal...and since the seamers were neither holding down runs nor threatening on a consistent basis all that tactic could hope to do was delay the inevitable. As it was they were unable to even hold things up to a new ball : surely it would have been better to ask Jadeja to try and entice an error ? At worst , the game might have ended a few overs earlier... (Reminds me a bit of some failed defence tactics in limited over games : captains never bring the field up until it is far too late to stop the chasing team ; probably because it is psychologically more comfortable to spin things out in even certainly vain hope , rather than take a - slim - chance while there is still time to actually influence the result )
I think on this day you mainly just have to give credit to two batsmen in terrific form. You have plenty of fine bowling options.
Batting though : India will welcome back Rohit and Rahul. I do not really rate Gill or Vihari ; Pujara is still in my team every time even if he is getting ever closer to the end . Iyer looks a bit like a white ball star yet to work out this long game stuff - the talent is there ; needs to develop the judgement. I know you have other prospects (is Rahane definitely done , by the way ?) and reckon with the right openers back and all that late middle talent in Pant , Jadeja , Ashwin , India only need to make sure 4 and 5 are filled adequately to cover most situations.
I am sure Indian supporters will be disappointed in losing the match and only drawing a series they had looked nailed on to win. But I fancy they will still be back next year for another shot at the WTC.
alfie- Posts : 21909
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
Doesn't look like India will make the WTC final.
Australia top with 77.78% (1 remaining test v Sri Lanka; 2 home tests v the West Indies; 3 home tests v SA; 4 away tests v India remaining)
South Africa second with 71.43% (3 away tests v England; 2 home tests v the West Indies; 3 away tests v Australia remaining)
Pakistan third with 52.38% (2 away tests v Sri Lanka; 3 home tests v England; 2 home tests v NZ remaining)
India fourth with 52.08% (2 away tests v Bangladesh; 4 home tests v Australia remaining)
Those are the four remaining contenders, essentially. You'd say Australia are close to nailed-in, but they might need a solitary test win in India to make sure. Five more wins and five losses out of the remaining ten gets them to 63.1%, seven more wins and three losses would put them up to 73.6%.
South Africa are in an excellent position after managing to beat India, but they probably need to beat England in England to get in the top two. Three more test wins and five losses from the last eight gets them to 53.3%, five and three is 66.66%, and six wins and two losses would get them to 73.3%.
I originally backed Pakistan to make the final based on their kind fixture list, but they've floundered somewhat after losing that thrilling test to the West Indies by one wicket and then having a very disappointing home series v Australia. They will be favourites for all of their last seven games however, and I expect raging turners to be prepared for when England and NZ visit, rather than the dead wickets they had v Australia. Five wins and two losses would only be 61.9%, but six and one makes it 69%.
India have struggled to build momentum through this cycle with their run blighted by inconsistency. A perfect run for India from here (not impossible) will get them to 68%, which might be enough, but 5 wins is only 62.5% which surely won't be.
I love this scoring system! Obviously some draws instead of losses would give a minor boost to the %. And slow over rate penalties have an effect - India were deducted 2 points for the recent test v England (and fined) because of slow over rates, though England mysteriously escaped without sanction.
I'd probably go for an Australia-Pakistan final at this stage. The ICC also haven't yet decided the venue for next year's final, could be Lord's or it could be elsewhere. Seem to remember Australia and Pakistan had a good series in England many years back.
Australia top with 77.78% (1 remaining test v Sri Lanka; 2 home tests v the West Indies; 3 home tests v SA; 4 away tests v India remaining)
South Africa second with 71.43% (3 away tests v England; 2 home tests v the West Indies; 3 away tests v Australia remaining)
Pakistan third with 52.38% (2 away tests v Sri Lanka; 3 home tests v England; 2 home tests v NZ remaining)
India fourth with 52.08% (2 away tests v Bangladesh; 4 home tests v Australia remaining)
Those are the four remaining contenders, essentially. You'd say Australia are close to nailed-in, but they might need a solitary test win in India to make sure. Five more wins and five losses out of the remaining ten gets them to 63.1%, seven more wins and three losses would put them up to 73.6%.
South Africa are in an excellent position after managing to beat India, but they probably need to beat England in England to get in the top two. Three more test wins and five losses from the last eight gets them to 53.3%, five and three is 66.66%, and six wins and two losses would get them to 73.3%.
I originally backed Pakistan to make the final based on their kind fixture list, but they've floundered somewhat after losing that thrilling test to the West Indies by one wicket and then having a very disappointing home series v Australia. They will be favourites for all of their last seven games however, and I expect raging turners to be prepared for when England and NZ visit, rather than the dead wickets they had v Australia. Five wins and two losses would only be 61.9%, but six and one makes it 69%.
India have struggled to build momentum through this cycle with their run blighted by inconsistency. A perfect run for India from here (not impossible) will get them to 68%, which might be enough, but 5 wins is only 62.5% which surely won't be.
I love this scoring system! Obviously some draws instead of losses would give a minor boost to the %. And slow over rate penalties have an effect - India were deducted 2 points for the recent test v England (and fined) because of slow over rates, though England mysteriously escaped without sanction.
I'd probably go for an Australia-Pakistan final at this stage. The ICC also haven't yet decided the venue for next year's final, could be Lord's or it could be elsewhere. Seem to remember Australia and Pakistan had a good series in England many years back.
Duty281- Posts : 34583
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
I won't even try to get my head around all those % s ! The system is obviously flawed because of the uneven fixture list - and probably no ideal way to "fix" that.
But the idea that Pakistan might be considered in the top two Test teams has me scratching my head...that list of home games might get them there , I suppose : but I'd have more respect for India at home , and a bit more doubts on SA on the road. We will see in time.
I
But the idea that Pakistan might be considered in the top two Test teams has me scratching my head...that list of home games might get them there , I suppose : but I'd have more respect for India at home , and a bit more doubts on SA on the road. We will see in time.
I
alfie- Posts : 21909
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
Yes, we'll leave the percentages for now! Here's some more about 'Bazball':
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jul/06/brendon-mccullum-plans-golf-and-adventure-holiday-for-england-cricket-players
Intrigued to see they have a different variation of the nightwatchman, dubbing it 'nighthawk' instead. Where the nightwatchman goes out with the intent of giving the ball a good bash, rather than seeing out deliveries. Apparently Broad was ready to come out and do this for various chases if a wicket fell late on.
The whole theme of this seems to be centred around making the game fun and relaxing, taking the pressure out that way. This is all well and good while England are winning - but what happens when they start losing? Or maybe England won't ever lose a test again. Will also be interesting to see how England approach a test batting first and having to set a target.
But that's for another time as tests take a backseat for the next month. Tomorrow sees the more sedate T20 version of the game, with Buttler's bow as captain in Southampton.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jul/06/brendon-mccullum-plans-golf-and-adventure-holiday-for-england-cricket-players
Intrigued to see they have a different variation of the nightwatchman, dubbing it 'nighthawk' instead. Where the nightwatchman goes out with the intent of giving the ball a good bash, rather than seeing out deliveries. Apparently Broad was ready to come out and do this for various chases if a wicket fell late on.
The whole theme of this seems to be centred around making the game fun and relaxing, taking the pressure out that way. This is all well and good while England are winning - but what happens when they start losing? Or maybe England won't ever lose a test again. Will also be interesting to see how England approach a test batting first and having to set a target.
But that's for another time as tests take a backseat for the next month. Tomorrow sees the more sedate T20 version of the game, with Buttler's bow as captain in Southampton.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
Duty281 wrote:...
The whole theme of this seems to be centred around making the game fun and relaxing, taking the pressure out that way. This is all well and good while England are winning - but what happens when they start losing? Or maybe England won't ever lose a test again. Will also be interesting to see how England approach a test batting first and having to set a target.
....
One curious thing in the last 4 matches is that England have batted much better in their 2nd innings of 3 of them, and the top order still looks to have a collapse in it in the first innings. I think there are advantages to batting positively, in that it can disrupt the plans of the bowling / fielding side, but there's a difference between positive and reckless that I think some (Stokes in particular) haven't quite found the balance of yet. Obviously also, a first innings is often a difficult time to bat, as the wicket may have a bit of life and movement, so the positivity of Lees and Crawley may just need tempering a bit if conditions don't suit the more aggressive approach.
Was actually quite impressed with Crawley's innings on Monday - seemed to have found a good balance between positivity and sensible caution, in turning down a few chances to drive the ball through the covers, at least until he was quite well set; unfortunately misjudged the line and length of the one that got him out, but all openers have done that. Still not convinced that him opening and Pope at 3 is the best possible combination, but it's probably what we'll have for the rest of the summer at least.
It's interesting that McCullum seems to be doing some team bonding stuff - one thing that Gareth Southgate has got right with the England football team is to make it more like a club atmosphere and made the camp happier, and it looks like the cricketers are already playing without the weight of the world on their shoulders, unlike last winter.
dummy_half- Posts : 6497
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
Quick question for the fans that are a lot more knowledgeable than myself.
Now that England have fully invested in Baz Ball, does anyone see a return for Buttler to the test team? Surely this style or tactic would suit Buttler perfectly?
Now that England have fully invested in Baz Ball, does anyone see a return for Buttler to the test team? Surely this style or tactic would suit Buttler perfectly?
Maine man- Posts : 669
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
Maine man wrote:Quick question for the fans that are a lot more knowledgeable than myself.
Now that England have fully invested in Baz Ball, does anyone see a return for Buttler to the test team? Surely this style or tactic would suit Buttler perfectly?
While I see the logic, it's not going to happen, and this is partly based on what Buttler himself said in an interview last Friday. He simply isn't playing any red ball cricket at the moment, and while his focus is entirely on the limited overs captaincy plus franchise cricket, a Test recall isn't on his radar.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
Maine man wrote:Quick question for the fans that are a lot more knowledgeable than myself.
Now that England have fully invested in Baz Ball, does anyone see a return for Buttler to the test team? Surely this style or tactic would suit Buttler perfectly?
I'd say no for two reasons; he's the white ball captain now and even with Bazball you still need a couple of players who can playing a supporting role which is what Foakes did during the New Zealand series. All out attack doesn't work.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/eng-vs-ind-2022-how-englands-bowlers-executed-their-astute-plans-while-batters-stole-the-show-1323523
Interesting analysis of the test bowling so far this summer. Most striking statistic confirms what many of us saw - with the ball aged between new and 29 overs old both England and New Zealand averaged around 27 with the ball. After that point England's average shot up to 46, while a combined NZ/India metric was 74. Just shows the Kookaburra-esque nature of the Dukes ball this summer.
The article also praises England's short-pitched bowling at the tail, which I don't agree with. Apparently England removed 12 tailenders (no.8 and below) via the short ball tactic which, according to this author, means it has been highly successful. But it doesn't tally with the statistical fact that England are the worst of the top nine test nations when bowling to the tail in recent years.
Interesting analysis of the test bowling so far this summer. Most striking statistic confirms what many of us saw - with the ball aged between new and 29 overs old both England and New Zealand averaged around 27 with the ball. After that point England's average shot up to 46, while a combined NZ/India metric was 74. Just shows the Kookaburra-esque nature of the Dukes ball this summer.
The article also praises England's short-pitched bowling at the tail, which I don't agree with. Apparently England removed 12 tailenders (no.8 and below) via the short ball tactic which, according to this author, means it has been highly successful. But it doesn't tally with the statistical fact that England are the worst of the top nine test nations when bowling to the tail in recent years.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
Duty281 wrote:https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/eng-vs-ind-2022-how-englands-bowlers-executed-their-astute-plans-while-batters-stole-the-show-1323523
Interesting analysis of the test bowling so far this summer. Most striking statistic confirms what many of us saw - with the ball aged between new and 29 overs old both England and New Zealand averaged around 27 with the ball. After that point England's average shot up to 46, while a combined NZ/India metric was 74. Just shows the Kookaburra-esque nature of the Dukes ball this summer.
The article also praises England's short-pitched bowling at the tail, which I don't agree with. Apparently England removed 12 tailenders (no.8 and below) via the short ball tactic which, according to this author, means it has been highly successful. But it doesn't tally with the statistical fact that England are the worst of the top nine test nations when bowling to the tail in recent years.
Skewed a bit by India's second innings effort. Also, does this take into account how many runs were scored by the late order batsmen? You'll get anyone out eventually if you keep bowling short stuff, but you might have conceded 100 runs more than you would have just bowling line and length.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
dummy_half wrote:Duty281 wrote:https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/eng-vs-ind-2022-how-englands-bowlers-executed-their-astute-plans-while-batters-stole-the-show-1323523
Interesting analysis of the test bowling so far this summer. Most striking statistic confirms what many of us saw - with the ball aged between new and 29 overs old both England and New Zealand averaged around 27 with the ball. After that point England's average shot up to 46, while a combined NZ/India metric was 74. Just shows the Kookaburra-esque nature of the Dukes ball this summer.
The article also praises England's short-pitched bowling at the tail, which I don't agree with. Apparently England removed 12 tailenders (no.8 and below) via the short ball tactic which, according to this author, means it has been highly successful. But it doesn't tally with the statistical fact that England are the worst of the top nine test nations when bowling to the tail in recent years.
Skewed a bit by India's second innings effort. Also, does this take into account how many runs were scored by the late order batsmen? You'll get anyone out eventually if you keep bowling short stuff, but you might have conceded 100 runs more than you would have just bowling line and length.
Yeah, the average for England's short-pitched bowling was 14.6, but of course when you're bowling to tailenders you would expect it to be low. I expect we'll see it continue against South Africa's tail and we'll be frustrated again.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
England: 1 Jason Roy, 2 Jos Buttler (capt & wk), 3 Dawid Malan, 4 Moeen Ali, 5 Liam Livingstone, 6 Harry Brook, 7 Sam Curran, 8 Chris Jordan, 9 Tymal Mills, 10 Reece Topley, 11 Matt Parkinson
India: 1 Rohit Sharma (capt), 2 Ishan Kishan, 3 Suryakumar Yadav, 4 Deepak Hooda, 5 Hardik Pandya, 6 Dinesh Karthik (wk), 7 Axar Patel, 8 Harshal Patel, 9 Bhuvneshwar Kumar, 10 Yuzvendra Chahal, 11 Arshdeep Singh
India batting first after winning the toss. Bairstow and Stokes rested for England, while Jordan seems some good performances this series. Parkinson in as Rashid is on pilgrimage. Brook gets a chance to show what he can do.
India are missing Bumrah and Pant, but Rohit returns. Singh is making his debut.
India: 1 Rohit Sharma (capt), 2 Ishan Kishan, 3 Suryakumar Yadav, 4 Deepak Hooda, 5 Hardik Pandya, 6 Dinesh Karthik (wk), 7 Axar Patel, 8 Harshal Patel, 9 Bhuvneshwar Kumar, 10 Yuzvendra Chahal, 11 Arshdeep Singh
India batting first after winning the toss. Bairstow and Stokes rested for England, while Jordan seems some good performances this series. Parkinson in as Rashid is on pilgrimage. Brook gets a chance to show what he can do.
India are missing Bumrah and Pant, but Rohit returns. Singh is making his debut.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
Interesting to see how both bowling attacks go this series - both containing a lot of fringe/backup guys looking to make a noise before the World Cup.
Do hope England give Gleeson some game time - a real possibility they have neither Archer or Wood for Australia, need a right arm quick option in case. Of course, Olly Stone should be that option...but in lieu of him getting upto speed fitness wise
Do hope England give Gleeson some game time - a real possibility they have neither Archer or Wood for Australia, need a right arm quick option in case. Of course, Olly Stone should be that option...but in lieu of him getting upto speed fitness wise
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
England thankful for Chris Jordan today I think... Looked like being a lot more to chase a few overs back.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
Good fightback from England to restrict India to below 200, after a poor first half. At 10 overs India were 105/3 and 200+ looked inevitable. Jordan the pick of the bowlers by far.
Should be chaseable on this, especially with no Bumrah. Not sure it's an excellent score, just a decent one.
Should be chaseable on this, especially with no Bumrah. Not sure it's an excellent score, just a decent one.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
Noticed Jordan has been bowling a fair bit in the middle this year in the Blast, wonder if he's reinventing himself a bit from trying yorkers to slamming it into the middle of the wicket? Definitely got his pace up at the moment too.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
Not sure this will be an easy chase though...and a lot harder now with Jos departing for zero ! That was a very nice piece of bowling by Bhuvi .
Might need some Livingstone magic later...
Might need some Livingstone magic later...
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
India have got this new ball swinging around corners! That's certainly making it difficult.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
Not going to get near this I'm afraid...India all over them. Three gone and Roy can hardly hit it off the square...correction four gone !
Test team have used up all the miracle stuff this month
But will be at least a chance for Brook to show what he can do...
Test team have used up all the miracle stuff this month
But will be at least a chance for Brook to show what he can do...
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
Has Kohli ran onto the wicket to celebrate yet?
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down
Those four wickets with the seamers did the telling damage, lots of swing in those early overs, England's bowlers never got near producing that much.
Onto the next one.
Onto the next one.
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