Dragons RFC - new name, new season: 2022/23

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New name, bit of a rebrand…..but same old Dragons? Hopefully not!

Player movements:

Players In:

Bradley Roberts from Ireland Ulster
JJ Hanrahan from France Clermont
Rhodri Jones from Wales Ospreys
Sean Lonsdale from England Exeter Chiefs
Max Clark from England Bath
George Nott from England London Irish
Sio Tomkinson from New Zealand Highlanders
Angus O'Brien from Wales Scarlets
Lewis Jones from Wales Cardiff
Rob Evans from Wales Scarlets


Players Out:

Taylor Davies returned to Wales Scarlets
Dan Babos released
Mesake Doge released
Tom Griffiths released
Jordan Olowofela returned to England Leicester Tigers
Max Williams released
Josh Lewis to Wales Merthyr
Jonah Holmes to England Ealing Trailfinders
Dan Baker to Wales Aberavon
Owen Jenkins to Wales Wales Sevens
Will Talbot-Davies to England Coventry
Greg Bateman retired
Joe Maksymiw to France Agen
Evan Lloyd to Wales Ebbw Vale
Carrick McDonough to Wales Ebbw Vale
Adam Warren to Wales Llandovery
Harry Fry to England Hartpury University

Some decent signings there, on paper. And lots of players leaving who were not that good. But also losing a couple of decent ones in Doge and Holmes.

Fingers crossed for a few more wins this season

Just read that the NS38 players wages are expected to be fully covered by the region, not 20% anymore, but WRU will cover the 80% next season but not beyond.

Lets face it the regions are not currently competative, current budgets are £7.5m with only having to pay 20% of NS38 players salary. How are they expected to become competative with budgets reduced to £4.5m plus they pay the additional 80% of the NS38 players?

The Welsh under 20s haven't finished in the top 3 of the under 20 6 nations since 2017, so it doesnt appear to be the talent there once was coming though either.

The URC just got a lot tougher, the 1 team from each shield getting into HCup is to be reviewed at end of this season.

Its just hard to see the regions not being bottom half of the table teams for the forseeable future.

The level of support for them from the WRU is abysmal. I do wonder are they trying to break them so they can launch 4 WRU owned regions, with no ties to the clubs? They first have to seperate governance of the professional game away from the clubs?

20 years ago the regions were launched and were a mess, and people thought in time the old club rivalries would be forgotten and fans would come on board?

I have no idea what the future for Welsh professional rugby is like, but what it currently has isnt it.

I really don’t think they want 4 x WRU clubs. They own the dragons now and have been seeking to return it to private ownership. In fact, according to the Dragons Chairman David Buttress, one of the stipulations of the new deal is that the Dragons have to be in private ownership, which he says is close to being finalised. So if they don’t even want 1 then I can’t see them wanting 4.

If they want fewer teams then they are surely in the perfect position to bin one as they own the Dragons. Yet they’re not doing that either. So they’re not doing much at all really!

If they do want 4 x WRU clubs, for arguments sake, then it’s back to the age old arguments of who these teams would be and where they would play. I don’t think the WRU have the finances to buy out the remaining 3 including their stadia (in the case of Cardiff and Scarlets). Would they have the finances to build stadia for the WRU clubs? Where would anyone build these apart from in high population areas such as Newport, Cardiff and Swansea?! Seems like needless duplication. And again, they’ve not shown any appetite for that sort of capital investment at the club level. You’re then going down the route of renting stadia. But where?

It just doesn't make sense, the covid loan, then the NS38 contractes players, the regions had no say inthe negotiations of the contracts, just agree they would pick up 20%, now the WRU are making them pay 100% of it and maybe even preventing these players leaving,

I find it more bizarre by the day what the WRU are soing to the regions, and there doesn't appear to be a long term plan.

Yeah agree that it doesn't look like they are running them down to take them over, or even replace them, it looks like they are just running them down for the sake of it.

I see the Drags getting a bit of a bad press for their deliberate targetting of the young Ospreys FH.

They seemed to make a couple of good going attempts to decapitate him but it cost them a yellow and a red card.

Do you think that was a deliberate tactic? If it was, then it certainly backfired on them.

It was embarrassing, like the rest of the performance. A song came into my head afterwards that summed up my feelings: 'Every day I love you less and less'.

I do think Flanagan does try to get us right on the edge, but I can't see him telling them to target the ten like that.

They were a bit niggly in the Cardiff home game too, where they were reacting to things etc. It's clear he wants us more abrasive, but he clearly needs to get a grip of them in derby games and realise there is a clear line.

It does seem a bit crazy, you are just not going to get away with reckless late shots like that any more.

I saw a clip on Twitter of Paul Turner playing for Newport in a derby game and he was getting flattend every time he kicked the ball. No-one, edpecially the ref was bstting sn eyelid back then and Turner just picked himself up each time and carried on, without any great expectstions of any assistance from the ref.

It is a different world these days, Moriarty clearly has been watching to many videos of his dad and uncle!

He's always had that in him (I remember a choke hold on Nicolas Sanchez), but it had been a long time since he'd done anything like that. It was just such a dispiriting performance. And I saw that Glasgow won at Thomond Park last weekend, so it's not an ideal time to be heading to Scotstoun!

That's what seems strange for me with the amount of contract renewals handed out. It's been clear we still really lack power and ball carriers. I'm not questing Dai as a coach as I do think he has done a good job but the fact he has offered so many contract renewals without us looking at improving the squad particularly at a time when our salary budget will make us competitive with the other welsh regions and the english premiership is a bit worrying.

Given Dean assembled a bulk of the squad I do question Dai's management skills around recruitment.

Dean Ryan was a bit of a name in world rugby.  Not a massive one, but was known outside the relatively small goldfish bowl of Wales.  So I think that had a bearing on him being able to attract players.  Plus it sounded like he had a knack of selling a vision.  Didn't sound like he was much of a people person though (once they were here), and his coaching record seemed questionable.

I think Flanagan is probably the opposite.  Not well known outside of Wales (and maybe not well inside either, apart from diehard fans) and will maybe struggle to sell a team that are perennial losers.  He does seem personable though and by all accounts improved the mood and camaraderie in the squad from day one.  Results haven't been good but as a fan I definitely feel we are better.  Hard to put a finger on how or why, but performances do seem better.

On the incidents v Ospreys - I do not know Flanagan at all so this is massively guesswork, but he doesn't seem at all like a malicious, tough nosed, beast of a coach who would instruct players to injure others.  Seems like a genuine nice guy.  So my guess is it wasn't instructional to go out and muller the no 10.  Pressure, yes perhaps.  I think some reputations were on the line, we'd beaten them in the first fixture in the year so there was talk of Ospreys revenge, etc.  I just think they went out to put pressure on the Ospreys, get up in the defensive line quickly to cut down the time they had on the ball, but some players took it too far.  On other occasions it goes our way and you cause mistakes, force some intercepts, etc.  This time Dragons got it wrong.

Welshmushroom wrote:That's what seems strange for me with the amount of contract renewals handed out.  It's been clear we still really lack power and ball carriers.  I'm not questing Dai as a coach as I do think he has done a good job but the fact he has offered so many contract renewals without us looking at improving the squad particularly at a time when our salary budget will make us competitive with the other welsh regions and the english premiership is a bit worrying.

Given Dean assembled a bulk of the squad I do question Dai's management skills around recruitment.  

A big build up this morning, yet the contract news was somewhat underwhelming.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:That's what seems strange for me with the amount of contract renewals handed out.  It's been clear we still really lack power and ball carriers.  I'm not questing Dai as a coach as I do think he has done a good job but the fact he has offered so many contract renewals without us looking at improving the squad particularly at a time when our salary budget will make us competitive with the other welsh regions and the english premiership is a bit worrying.

Given Dean assembled a bulk of the squad I do question Dai's management skills around recruitment.  

A big build up this morning, yet the contract news was somewhat underwhelming.

I really think he could have been really shrewd in the transfer market with the savings he could have made on some of the players out of contract. Just having offloaded Dee, Moriarty and Davies for example really could have helped in the area the team needs to strengthen. We really lack on the physical edge in the forwards. We need Props that can scrummage and a powerful heavy lock. Without those we simply will have to get used to winning a couple of games in a season.

I just hope Carter does bulk up in the off season as he commented because clearly the game at lock requires weight and strength these days.

I really do think Dai has missed a chance to take advantage of a volatile market at the moment with a lot of players currently still out of contracts for next season in the transfer market.

Some of our current squad have had long enough in the last 2 seasons to prove themselves at this level. I don't see the point of contracting sub standard players. I'd rather us give those chances to academy players as they will develop faster as a result of the experience gained.

I can't see the sense in giving Ollie Griffiths another contract. It said in the announcement that he's made 99 appearances, but how many of those appearances ended with him going off injured? I'll happily eat my hat if he plays a full season next season.

This is going to sound harsh, but I feel like we’ve re-signed players who probably would not get pro contracts elsewhere given their standard/injury record/form, or a combination of those things. In other words, those players probably bit the club’s hand off when offered a new deal as it was probably that or nothing. On their day they can all put in a good performance, but they’re not all consistent players and those days are here and there and not week in week out. Not the top level pros we really need to get us up the league and get more W’s on the board. Saying that, those types of players who are consistently 7 or 8 out of 10 (or higher) cost a fortune and I’m sure will be hoovered up by other richer teams.

I'm happy enough with Keddie's signing, he's reliable and available all season. But I'm worried that Wainwright wasn't one of the signings, does anyone know when he's out of contract?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'm happy enough with Keddie's signing, he's reliable and available all season. But I'm worried that Wainwright wasn't one of the signings, does anyone know when he's out of contract?

2024, by the looks.

It's a bit underwhelming the announcements aye. I agree on Keddie staying being good. Players like Fairbrother etc are fan favourites, but really show our limitations as a squad and just give people a stick to beat us with in terms of player development etc.

I would happily have let a fair few of "the magnificent 7 (8)" go, to be honest.

Sorry, I missed Keddie in that lot. I do rate him highly actually. Happy to see him re-sign.

To be honest, I’m not gutted to see the others re-sign. Far from it. Didn’t want it to come across that way if it did. Much better than losing them and only being able to replace from the lower leagues. But agree with others that they’re not stellar signings. Mainly just our clubmen/stalwarts signing back on for more of the same. But hey ho

We've also extended Screech's loan to the 2023/24 season. There wasn't more info provided when I looked. Not sure what the point is in extending a loan, but I expected us to keep him as a replacement for Rowlands which again is underwhelming.

RiscaGame wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'm happy enough with Keddie's signing, he's reliable and available all season. But I'm worried that Wainwright wasn't one of the signings, does anyone know when he's out of contract?

2024, by the looks.

It's a bit underwhelming the announcements aye. I agree on Keddie staying being good. Players like Fairbrother etc are fan favourites, but really show our limitations as a squad and just give people a stick to beat us with in terms of player development etc.

I would happily have let a fair few of "the magnificent 7 (8)" go, to be honest.

That's a relief

Bit disappointed in Dai's selection for the Glasgow game. I know we are down to the bare bones (the perils of operating on such a small squad), but we have a current Welsh squad member on the bench for Chris Coleman. Crikey. I could just about swallow Leon Brown being rested last week, for his "intense Welsh training camp", but this is knockout rugby and although we were up against it anyway, we should be playing our strongest side to try and salvage something from another poor season.

Glasgow: Ollie Smith; Kyle Steyn (captain), Huw Jones, Sione Tuipulotu, Cole Forbes; Domingo Miotti, George Horne; Allan Dell, Johnny Matthews, Lucio Sordoni, Scott Cummings, Richie Gray, Rory Darge, Sione Vailanu, Jack Dempsey (33).

Replacements: George Turner, Nathan McBeth, Simon Berghan, JP du Preez, Lewis Bean, Ryan Wilson, Jamie Dobie, Tom Jordan.

Dragons: Jordan Williams; Rio Dyer, Steff Hughes, Max Clark, Jared Rosser; Will Reed, Rhodri Williams (captain); Aki Seiuli, Bradley Roberts, Chris Coleman, Ben Carter, George Nott, Ross Moriarty, Taine Basham, Aaron Wainwright.

Replacements: Elliot Dee, Rhodri Jones, Leon Brown, Huw Taylor, Sean Lonsdale, Ben Fry, Lewis Jones, Ioan Davies.

I guess the thinking with Coleman and Seiuli is that it's better to have them starting and getting it out of the way than the other way round. I can see the logic, but unfortunately there's no guarantee that the replacement props will be rewarded either, especially if the ref's made his mind up about our scrum by the time they come on.

Two very good back rows up against each other here.

What’s the odds on us dropping Coleman and actually signing a pro TH?

Ok so Blacker is a quality signing in my eyes. I did question Dai's loyalty towards some of the re-signings he made as in my eyes he missed some real chances to add quality given the current changes to the Market.

So I will see what other players he adds to the squad over the summer but I suspect given the Dragons according to Buttress have already been spending 5 million on the squad its hard to see how we can add more players without releasing more players.

I honestly think Dee for example was a player I would have cut loose and that money could have gone to the areas we really are failing to get a platform. I still maintain that with O'Brien, Rosser & Dyer we have a real quality back 3. We just need to give them a platform to play.

Very happy about Blacker. He was good when we had him for a brief spell a few seasons ago. He'll be useful for when Gonzo's away with the Pumas (that's if he's staying). Anything that means less game time for Lewis Jones!

I don’t think Gonzo likes it here, wouldn’t be surprised if he’s off. I’m almost certain it would be better to get shot off Lewis Jones and play any 18 year old there.

Blacker is a good steal, pleased with that. I’m wondering, did we get some sort of transfer fee for Ross?

I read this morning that Rob Evans looks like he is being released.

Dai was quoted as saying we need a scrumming loosehead saying how this will help develop his tightheads as well.

That statement worries me. Surely the fundamental requirement of any prop is scrums. Anything above that is a bonus but not required.

It's the same at pretty much every region at the minute. Very few of our props can actually scrum well aside from Smith and Francis. Its because of these basic fundamentals welsh regions won't compete.

The SA sides have shown us that since they have come in how important set piece is becoming now if you want to win games.

I don't expect anything to improve next season which is really annoying given it will be the first season all 4 regions are spending the same on players. For the first time since regional rugby we will actually have a clear idea of who actually is spending their budgets well and who are not.

Dai really had the chance to shake things up and make some improvements to the team. Blacker is a great signing but he really needed to address the issues in the front 5 which clearly is a problem for us.

Yeah, I was told a while back that his contract wouldn't be renewed & I think he may struggle to get a professional contract anywhere.

In addition to Rob Evans and Sam Davies we also have confirmed as leaving Ioan Davies, Lennon Greggains, Ben Fry, Huw Taylor and Ben Moa (senior academy). Good to have a few of these off the wage bill, surprised Coleman isn’t confirmed as leaving. Rhodri Jones isn’t much better than Rob Evans either.

I wonder of them will get picked elsewhere (aside from the first two). I know Ioan Davies, Greggains and Moa have featured for Newport a bit. Might get a cup final appearance for them, to finish off.

The only one of those players I quite like, is Ben Fry. Sam Davies was pretty useful for us, but for as long as Hanrahan is there and they're really pushing Reed, he shouldn't be kicking his heels. For me, some of our best performances this season came with him at ten though (Ospreys and Zebre).

I didn't expect Ben Fry to be let go, would assume he's going to another region. Waino, Basham and Griffiths can cover the back-row but they shouldn't all play at once. Primary 7 going forward is likely to be Basham with Waino at 8 and Griffiths always injured. I wonder if we're going to try and convert someone like Lonsdale to an 8.

mikey_dragon wrote:I didn't expect Ben Fry to be let go, would assume he's going to another region. Waino, Basham and Griffiths can cover the back-row but they shouldn't all play at once. Primary 7 going forward is likely to be Basham with Waino at 8 and Griffiths always injured. I wonder if we're going to try and convert someone like Lonsdale to an 8.

I've heard for a while that Fry is coming to us & we do have an annoucement today of a signing, though it could be a re-signing.

Will Boyde seems to have disappeared, he was a good open-side.

mikey_dragon wrote:Will Boyde seems to have disappeared, he was a good open-side.

Playing down in France last I heard.

Oakdene wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Will Boyde seems to have disappeared, he was a good open-side.

Playing down in France last I heard.

Well I think Dragons and Scarlets could do with another quality open-side, it makes sense. Dragons are down to just one.

I know they’re both staying for now, but we have to be looking at life without Griffiths and Brown. I can’t think of any more players that have been this injured. Coleman isn’t the answer, he’s been with us a while and mostly looks well below the level required for pro rugby. He’s not the only one…

Hewitt and J Williams are looking slower. I understand both have been recovering from injuries so hopefully they’ll be good next season. Hewitt is still sharp and strong in contact, just seems a little slower and less fit.

On the coaching front I’m thinking a scrum coach or a new forwards coach who does that role. There hasn’t been much progress there. Dai seems like he’s looking for some units. Bulls in SA definitely have a few to spare, fingers crossed…

Also, why don’t we swap Nott and Carter around. Carter needs more bulk for second row. Nott looks like a big guy, seems to have played most pro rugby at 2nd row, good to have him as an option though.

Oakdene wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Will Boyde seems to have disappeared, he was a good open-side.

Playing down in France last I heard.

He's currently playing for a team in Spain. UE Santboiana

Welshmushroom wrote:

Oakdene wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Will Boyde seems to have disappeared, he was a good open-side.

Playing down in France last I heard.

He's currently playing for a team in Spain. UE Santboiana

Would be a good steal if we got him. I think we need another 7 with Fry going, but I hope Dai continues to prioritise the aforementioned areas before looking here.

I like Rosser at 13, it gives us a good attacking dimension. If Sio is always at 13 (which he should be if available) then Dyer and Rosser are my first choice wingers.

Just announced that we’ve signed Corey Baldwin. Any good???

I know he went to Exeter with a lot of hype. It seems like Scarlets fans are saying he was fifth choice wing for them, which seems to be where our priority was in a signing (rather than centre).

It’s not a move I would’ve made, but then again we did well out of Steff Hughes. I want our first choice wingers to be Rosser and Dyer. He might be more of a shout than Hewitt though, I guess (when Dyer is away).

RiscaGame wrote:I know he went to Exeter with a lot of hype. It seems like Scarlets fans are saying he was fifth choice wing for them, which seems to be where our priority was in a signing (rather than centre).

It’s not a move I would’ve made, but then again we did well out of Steff Hughes. I want our first choice wingers to be Rosser and Dyer. He might be more of a shout than Hewitt though, I guess (when Dyer is away).

Big things were expected when he came back from Exeter but he has struggled really. Could be a good signing if he stays fit.

He's a well built lad with some pace. Seems to have failed to kick on at Chiefs or Scarlets. At Chiefs he seemed fine on the couple of occasions I saw him play. Maybe more game time will bring more out of him.

Lydiate signs.

They haven't disclosed the length of the contract. I hope he isn't always crocked, as it will be helpful to have him around some of the younger guys, especially when internationals away. He could also go to the RWC depending on 'how well he trains'. He seems to blow hot and cold at that level.

I’m a bit mixed about that signing. No doubt he can and does play well and has been pretty good for Ospreys this season I think. But I think we need to ask the question ‘What is the point of this signing?’. If it is to be an experienced head, bring on youngsters, cover for Wainwright and Basham at the WC, physicality cover and replacement for the departing Ross Moriarty, etc. then it’s going to be a right kick in the nuts if he’s back in favour with Warren G (and Nate Dogg) and will leave us similarly exposed as before he signed. I wouldn’t want to deny any player international honours, but sometimes it would be nice to be a bit more like France who seem to be more ruthless/honest and tell players that if they sign then it’s because they’re seen as international cover, I.e. we’ll give you a contract but it’s to be available all season. Not sure how legal that is, and if Lydiate is having a blinder then my Welsh hat says to get him in the Welsh squad. But the clubs are in a tricky spot now with smaller budgets and smaller squads. Team Wales does suck their resources dry a bit

I am not overly enthused by it. I get the experience thing and allegedly there to help the youngsters etc, but I can't honestly see where he starts for us, if our players are available. It just seems a bit of a luxury for me, because he is a player that is good at what he does but I don't see him as a player to compliment our attacking play that we seem to want to play. Plus it has never really been a position of weakness, whereas front five is.

If you're somebody like Lonsdale and Nott, you're not going to be enthused by it either.

Exactly what I hoped wouldn't happen. At his best he was a great player. But he isn't that player now. Someone like Ben Moa would have been better to be kept and given a chance to develop. They probably could have signed Peard back as well and you would have had a lock and 8 for the same money.

Dai is showing is inexperience now in terms of signing players. I genuinely think he is a great coach but in terms of signing players he clearly isn't experienced or particularly astute at having a recruitment strategy.

The fact Ospreys signed Ratti for example is a lost chance. He was someone I said all season should be someone the Dragons should have gone for because he could have played in the second row as well as 6 or 8 when needed.

I thought things were going great once we signed Blacker as I hoped this meant he was really being clever with recruitment. But both Lydiate and Baldwin have been really poor signings.

Given were also looking at Patchell and a loosehead my fears have been confirmed. I actually think we might end up being worse next season.

So annoying given this next year will be the first time we are actually on the same playing field as Ospreys, Cardiff & Scarlets.

Yeah I wanted Ratti too, especailly after Ross left. If it was between us and them I think he would have chosen Ospreys anyway. Patchell is a good signing if we can pull that off. He can also provide cover at 15, I'd see that as the preferable option rather than recruit a 15 from elsewhere. I'd rather we went after a TH than a LH, so Coleman doesn't have to feature whilst Brown is always injured. If we get a LH and TH well that's even better.

Heard JD Schickerling is our number 1 target for now anyway . If we pull that off, then it would make sense to try and bring back Scragg, Peard, etc.

Welshmushroom wrote:Exactly what I hoped wouldn't happen.  At his best he was a great player.  But he isn't that player now.  Someone like Ben Moa would have been better to be kept and given a chance to develop.  They probably could have signed Peard back as well and you would have had a lock and 8 for the same money.

Dai is showing is inexperience now in terms of signing players.  I genuinely think he is a great coach but in terms of signing players he clearly isn't experienced or particularly astute at having a recruitment strategy.  

The fact Ospreys signed Ratti for example is a lost chance.  He was someone I said all season should be someone the Dragons should have gone for because he could have played in the second row as well as 6 or 8 when needed.

I thought things were going great once we signed Blacker as I hoped this meant he was really being clever with recruitment.  But both Lydiate and Baldwin have been really poor signings.

Given were also looking at Patchell and a loosehead my fears have been confirmed.  I actually think we might end up being worse next season.

So annoying given this next year will be the first time we are actually on the same playing field as Ospreys, Cardiff & Scarlets.

Was always going to go to the Ospreys.

So we’re back to private ownership, and the stadium is also included in the deal. Wonder how much debt we’ll be living in, and wonder if the new owners can afford to bring in some new players/coaches.