Dragons RFC - new name, new season: 2022/23

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New name, bit of a rebrand…..but same old Dragons? Hopefully not!

Player movements:

Players In:

Bradley Roberts from Ireland Ulster
JJ Hanrahan from France Clermont
Rhodri Jones from Wales Ospreys
Sean Lonsdale from England Exeter Chiefs
Max Clark from England Bath
George Nott from England London Irish
Sio Tomkinson from New Zealand Highlanders
Angus O'Brien from Wales Scarlets
Lewis Jones from Wales Cardiff
Rob Evans from Wales Scarlets


Players Out:

Taylor Davies returned to Wales Scarlets
Dan Babos released
Mesake Doge released
Tom Griffiths released
Jordan Olowofela returned to England Leicester Tigers
Max Williams released
Josh Lewis to Wales Merthyr
Jonah Holmes to England Ealing Trailfinders
Dan Baker to Wales Aberavon
Owen Jenkins to Wales Wales Sevens
Will Talbot-Davies to England Coventry
Greg Bateman retired
Joe Maksymiw to France Agen
Evan Lloyd to Wales Ebbw Vale
Carrick McDonough to Wales Ebbw Vale
Adam Warren to Wales Llandovery
Harry Fry to England Hartpury University

Some decent signings there, on paper. And lots of players leaving who were not that good. But also losing a couple of decent ones in Doge and Holmes.

Fingers crossed for a few more wins this season

Oh Dai - what are you doing. I hope at least he has put Brown on some performance related contract. Because his appearance rate for the Dragons the last couple of seasons has been dire.

Brown apparently has a performance related contract.

Re-signings like Coleman, Benjamin on top of some others don't help our case if it ever came to a team for the chopping block.

I expected Bradley Roberts to be moving on, he's now officially retired. I guess he is still moving on, to an extent.

The re-signings are shocking. Martinez hardly played, and we got an unfit Arhip - but he hardly proved himself. Both of them went backwards often at scrum time. The transfer news went really quiet apart from social media contunuing to brag about the new signings for weeks on end, so I expected it. I honestly thought we would be shot of Coleman and Benjamin though. If that is Dai's work then it's more proof that he isn't up to it. As Yendle is staying too then he needs to take Coleman's place and be afforded unlimited opportunities as well.

Just following on from earlier discussion, I believe Fifita had a year left but he's extended his stay with Scarlets. Their former Welsh internationals must have been on a big wad if they're affording it. I don't see how Peel is still in a job but something must be going right down at the Parc.

I found the interview by the Ospreys chief. It looks like there are plans afoot to bring regional spends back to 6.5 million. What was unclear is if that will be just 2 or all 4 teams. No doubt it will be the others as Dragons are never top of the list.

I do find that strange because Gwent is still the heartbeat of Welsh Rugby and my view is they of all the regions are actually the smart ones to invest in most. Gwent would easily bring the biggest attendances if they could actually put a winning team down there. We saw what happened when Brown was pumping money. We had some of the biggest attendances around at the time and the side wasnt even winning that much back then.

Dragons should be the Welsh Leinster.

Ospreys move to St Helens I think will be a good one in the long run. That could be the making of them.

But until we can show we can do a better job putting together better signings I cant see the funding go our way. This season was critical for our future to change that and I really think Dai shot us in the foot. There was a real chance to have done better than both Cardiff and Scarlets but now I cant see it happening.

I hope im wrong....

You're not wrong. Zebre might keep us off the bottom spot, but only just.

On a plus side it was nice to see our U18's just batter Cardiff 54-15.

For me its just a indication of the hidden strength Gwent rugby has. We've just done a dire job in turning them in to pro athletes. That's not a fault of the youngsters.

If we could actually do a better job in terms of coaching, conditioning and development we would easily be the best region in Wales.

We've done a dire job indeed, there are some exceptions to the rule but those are usually our most gifted players, who are few and far between. I think any other team could have brought in Joe Peard and actually turned him into a decent enough club player, but we are persisting with Davies who is just a complete passenger season after season. I also think we could do better on finding players at age grade, you'll note France and Italy have done that a lot better over the last few seasons. Where are the rugby scouts? Do they go to council estates around Newport? Lot's of big guys here, hard blokes as well and there's a few I'm scared of.

To be honest you have a very valid point.  There are plenty of tough guys kicking around in Wales.  And at the end of the day Rugby still requires enforcers similar to hockey.  

My main issue with the modern day Welsh forwards is that a lot of them may physically be big but lack that edge and mentality.  It's an area I would totally have expanded the framework for regional rugby.  Some kind of pathway for those tough blokes who may simply never have played rugby but could be put on some program to play those physical enforcer positions at 4,6,8.  Even Props here could be looked at.  It's not like forwards pass that much and they do hit a lot of rucks and tackles which is fairly basic in terms of what needs to be learned.  

Granted that probably won't work with backs but I would be looking at what happens if you have 19-24 olds who maybe never played the sport but could be excellent if given the resources.  

That is progressive thinking and given how this current WRU board are going I can't see anyone actually putting something like this on the agenda.

They have already made a total mess of the semi pro league before even starting it.  I've no faith in the current management at the WRU given some of the ideas these people are kicking around.

On Mikey's Joe Peard point, I saw that he had signed for Newport RFC the other day ready for the new season. Shame, as I had high hopes for him but seems he can't get a pro contract. Good that he's back in the 'region' though but wonder if his chance has gone now as a pro? Hopefully if he has a stormer then he might get back into the Dragons fold. Agree that anyone else probably would have managed to mould him into a good club player, given his physical characteristics. But Dragons seem to squander players like that.

Trust me, the guys I know of are like South African front rowers, tall and wide. I think to myself why aren't our pro players as big and tough as you lot

I'm not sure what they're up to with the semi-pro league. I'm not sure why they think it's going to be a breeding ground for pro players, it never has been.

Fairbrother retires.....good servant to the club.

Think it already puts pressure on us at 3 now. With Browns injury record we might be down to Arhip, Coleman and Yeandle. If that ends up being the case we really will have a dire season.

If we re-signed all those guys that re-signed then another dire season was always on the cards.

Dragons RFC: Jordan Williams, Ewan Rosser, Joe Westwood, Aneurin Owen, Oli Andrew, Will Reed, Morgan Lloyd; Dylan Kelleher-Griffiths, Brodie Coghlan, Luke Yendle, Joe Davies, George Nott (c), George Young, Evan Minto, Owen Conquer

Replacements: Josh Reynolds, Oli Burrows, Sam Scarfe, Chris Coleman, Owain James, Steve Cummins, Nick Thomas, Kobi Rees, Dane Blacker, Harri Ford, Steff Hughes, Harry Wilson, Walker Price, Huw Anderson

Really want to see more of players like Huw Anderson, rather than players like Jordan Williams. I do like that some of the other youngsters are starting though.

They lost

I know we had lots of 2nd string players out there but it’s still a top tier team (if you can call us that) vs a 2nd tier team. At home too. We’ve gotta be winning these, surely?

Hard to know what Dai considers his first choice, bar the internationals. It does prove that we have no depth from our seconds, but then Dai thinks highly of those like Joe Davies etc. Apparently some of the younger ones went okay though. Huw Anderson seemed to be mentioned a fair bit, when he came on. Also Cummins seemingly made a few good carries.

It doesn't mean a lot really, but seeing as we are highly likely to lose to Bristol and Bath, to go into the season off the back of three defeats is a worry.

You have to love some of the comments trying to defend the loss, from the usual suspects including the Dragons Lair Podcast who have a whopping 90 followers. A number of the team from yesterday are in Dai’s first team.

Liams Williams in talks to join Dragons, apparently. He’s an excellent player no doubt about it. But would we see much of him on the pitch? Money should be spent in the front row.

I really don’t see the point in this, at all.

Just because he's available doesn't mean we need to take him. Back three is clearly not where we need to be spending.

I know he's a Lion and everything, but I'm tired of us taking other regions' cast-offs almost without a second thought. Maybe this isn't quite in the same category, but it would follow a pattern.

My issue is not if he will be a good signing or not as I do rate him.

But the issue is we have some critical weaknesses. Without fixing those it wont matter if we had a All Black backline. Teams will just monster us upfront.

I believe the way URC rugby has been the last 2 seasons we already have seen that not having at least a pack that keeps parity, winning us unlikely. Almost every win starts with the pack. Peel at least had the sense to see where the Scarlets lacked last season and went out to reinforce that area at the expense of backs. Dai by contrast for me simply didnt strengthen the right areas. I'll have to wait to see how they go as I may be wrong but given our first 6 rounds, if we dont start well the season could be really dire.

We have 4 home games in those first 6. He probably needs to win 3. I just hope at this point we start strong because I fear for a truly dire season if we dont.

Agree with that WM, the pack is a real worry. Always is. Specifically the front row. Here's the players listed on the Dragons squad page. What's the best tight 5 we can make from this:

Props:
Dimitri Arhip
Leon Brown
Chris Coleman
Rhodri Jones
Rodrigo Martinez
Josh Reynolds
Luke Yendle

Hookers:
James Benjamin
Oli Burrows
Brodie Coghlan
Elliot Dee

2nd Rows:
Ben Carter
Steve Cummins
Joe Davies
George Nott (hybrid)
Matthew Screech

The lack of depth is shocking. I'd probably go for Dee at hooker and Cummins and Carter in the 2nd row. But who goes on for Dee at hooker when he's subbed? Slim pickings from that list. And assuming he'll be away with Wales a fair bit. The cupboard looks empty there.

Props are a real issue. Brown is never fit, or not in form, or both. Arhip has been plucked from retirement and can't be expected to perform week in week out for many minutes. So he's probably only a back up player. Martinez looks good on paper but not sure he's shown too much for us yet. Rhodri Jones - average. And then the rest are academy boys who probably wouldn't get pro contracts anywhere else (sorry). Really difficult to pick good starters and subs from that. Depressing. And then we are in talks about spunking a load of cash on Liam Williams. If we get a better platform then the current backs will score more. So save the cash and put it in the front row.

I still think Burrows will be second choice, because of the size difference. But who knows.

I agree on the locks. I think we will have to start Arhip and play him until he gasses, to try and get some sort of platform.

We've got Sam Scarfe at hooker now too.

At least Scarfe is actually a hooker (unlike Benjamin), and he looks decent from what I've seen but still untested. Guys like Benjamin and Reynolds have been around for years and never actually broke into the squad. Even favourite Joe Davies found his game time was restricted last season when other locks had become available. It's all grim, and I am not even sure which is the worst re-signing - Brown or Coleman? Even grimmer thinking about it.

Rumour is that the squad budgets are to be increased, and that we are also looking at an Argentina U20 TH. Not much info available though. LW would be a bad signing to make even though he is better than Cai Evans despite being past it. Is this all Dai's foresight, or someone else's?

Wasn't Paul Turner meant to be coming in to help with scouting / recruitment, or did I dream it?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Wasn't Paul Turner meant to be coming in to help with scouting / recruitment, or did I dream it?

Was a bit for last season and then joined Ampthill as head coach in the summer.

mikey_dragon wrote:At least Scarfe is actually a hooker (unlike Benjamin), and he looks decent from what I've seen but still untested. Guys like Benjamin and Reynolds have been around for years and never actually broke into the squad. Even favourite Joe Davies found his game time was restricted last season when other locks had become available. It's all grim, and I am not even sure which is the worst re-signing - Brown or Coleman? Even grimmer thinking about it.

Rumour is that the squad budgets are to be increased, and that we are also looking at an Argentina U20 TH. Not much info available though. LW would be a bad signing to make even though he is better than Cai Evans despite being past it. Is this all Dai's foresight, or someone else's?

By all accounts the WRU and PRL will be announcing a increase in the squad budgets for 25/26. It's going to be between 6 - 6.5 Million. The problem is that I can see no scenario where this is spent primarily on Welsh Players. Half the guys playing outside of Wales are past it now. If they used this money to start getting all the real promising guys back to Wales like Hawkins, Llewellyn and Co then fair enough. Or ideally just spend more on trying to prepare more Academy players and carrying a bigger roster of welsh players. In reality though if its about performance then knowing the regions this will be spent on overseas and past it Welsh players. That will be a real issue.

To be honest at this point if the goal is to make Welsh Regions successful right now then it can't really be done without overseas players because most our top end pros are past it now. The better long term view is to spend this money on securing the future. I'd much prefer pilfering the welsh talent in England and securing better regional head coaches. Head coach wise we are miles behind most of the other URC teams in the other countries.

I'd love to see us go after Pat Lam - he cant be happy at Bristol now they are cutting back and I rate him as a head coach. He got both Connacht and Bristol playing well in terms of style of rugby. He would be a massive improvement on Dai.

RiscaGame wrote:I still think Burrows will be second choice, because of the size difference. But who knows.

I agree on the locks. I think we will have to start Arhip and play him until he gasses, to try and get some sort of platform.

This probably wont be popular opinion amongst my other Dragons colleagues but the issue with Dee for me has always been his size. I just dont think he is really big or strong enough at 2. He is a good lineout thrower but these days the other areas are as if not more important. Dai should have moved him on in the summer and really looked at bringing in a scrummaging 2 if he knew his props situation. Another bad call as no doubt Dee is on a fairly big wedge as well.

Coghlan and Burrows both have the size in that area so I would like to see them given plenty of gametime.

Benjamin should have been let go. Not good enough at this level.

On the plus side though it does look like Dragons are in fact in the market for a prop now along with Williams.

So maybe we will see another Prop arriving in the next couple of weeks.

Forgot about Scarfe, but he’s not showing on the squad for 2024/25. I think he went to Gloucester on loan didn’t he? So maybe not available? I would have him as no.2 no.2 to Dee over the others. It would be peak Dragons to loan out our (arguably) 2nd best hooker and then have to use hookers ranked much lower!

I actually thought Coughlan was very handy in the few outings he has had. He's fairly powerful.

Burrows is defo a scrummaging 2 but no real experience at this level.

I just would have rather seen someone like Montoya in our starting team over Dee. I just dont think he helps the props at scrum time and given we dont have the best props around that compounds our issue. You can negate scrums a bit by playing a strong scrumming 2.

None of the props in your opening list would be probably starting in any other URC team which probably tells you all you need to know and I'm including Zebre in that. That's how bad that is at the moment.

I do think Carter has a bright future ahead of him. Nott I've really rated in the games he played for us as well although i think he may eventually need to be moved to 6 because I dont think the way the league is going he is big enough in terms of weight. All our other locks I dont think will be good enough (including Cummings).

The capability of those front 5 will be a major factor in us winning or losing games. We've essentially stood still and almost every URC has strengthened their tight 5 additions by another notch. In all honesty some of these URC sides will put cricket scores on us next season.

Again, I agree with most of that WM. Apart from the bit about Dee! Haha! Sure, he’s no Malcolm Marx, but I just cant see that someone like Gatland would pick him if he was too small. It’s not like Wales is blessed with the best scrummaging props in the world either yet he seems to pick Dee without issue.

I know it’s difficult going off online stats, but just looked a few up and Dee is slightly taller and a number of pounds heavier than Coughlan. So I’m not sure about Coughlan having the size over him there? Burrows is quoted as an inch or so taller and a bit heavier than Dee though. Sam Scarfe apparently the shortest of them all. Read into all of that what you will. Certainly a strong scrummaging hooker would be great, but technique and lineout throwing need to come into it too.

Hookers don’t have to be massive but a lot of them are these days. Dee is a good thrower and is our best. Agree that Coghlan looked decent when he’s played. Also think we should spend any extra cash on coaches and the academy, but we are desperate for more front 5 players.

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:Forgot about Scarfe, but he’s not showing on the squad for 2024/25. I think he went to Gloucester on loan didn’t he? So maybe not available?

That was just for one match I think, when Gloucester were suddenly very short of hookers.

I agree with others on Brodie Coghlan, he was quietly very good for us last season.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:Forgot about Scarfe, but he’s not showing on the squad for 2024/25. I think he went to Gloucester on loan didn’t he? So maybe not available?

That was just for one match I think, when Gloucester were suddenly very short of hookers.

I agree with others on Brodie Coghlan, he was quietly very good for us last season.

I've found him - he's listed in the Senior Academy squad instead of the main squad, along with the likes of Joes Westwood, Ryan Woodman, Che Hope, Harri Ackerman, etc. So perhaps Scarfe is further down the pecking order than I thought. Only 1 prop in the senior academy squad is worrying (Dylan Kelleher- Thomas). I imagine most of the senior academy (and academy) squad will play mainly in one of the Super Rygbi Cymru teams (Newport, Ebbw or Pontypool) and then get called up to cover injuries and/or get game time at pro level?

I've noted that in pre-season, the Regions are using some premiership players, or Super Rygbi Cymru as it's now called. Perhaps a sign of things to come, regions relying on contracted semi-pro* players to play against other pro teams.

*Semi-pro can be used to sum up a bunch of 'professionals' at some of the regions, but I was referring to semi-pro players who have 9-5 jobs!

We have called up Joe Rees from Hartpury (not sure how that works), but it's probably not a bad shout taking a look at experienced prop forwards from the English championship. Exeter have often done it to great effect. Rees isn't the only Welsh prop at Hartpury either. It'll be interesting to see if Joe Peard makes any sort of impact too!

Ben Carter as captain then! That surprised me, not because I think it's a bad call, I just didn't think he was on the radar for that. He's incredibly hard-working, so he'll lead by example as they say, I just hope that the added responsibility of making the calls and dealing with the referee doesn't put him off his game in any way. Some players are better left to get on with it.

Sam Scarfe started for Pooler last night, so I guess that tells us where he is in the pecking order.

Still think we should swap him around with Nott, so Carter can play a bit at 6. Carter needs a big season, he hasn’t kicked on as well as we hoped.

mikey_dragon wrote:We have called up Joe Rees from Hartpury (not sure how that works), but it's probably not a bad shout taking a look at experienced prop forwards from the English championship. Exeter have often done it to great effect. Rees isn't the only Welsh prop at Hartpury either. It'll be interesting to see if Joe Peard makes any sort of impact too!

Generally the idea is to get them in their mid twenties after they've had two or three years of consistently good form in the Championship and try to get them to kick on. Signing them at 34 isn't quite the same idea but he might still do a job.

Exeter found real value at tighthead with Tomas Francis who came through Doncaster and London Scottish. Harry Williams as well who made his name at BUCS level with Loughborough before Notts and Jersey before Exeter. There's definitely value at Champ level but it's no sure thing. Jay Tyack was a beast at Champ level but failed to kick on at Worcester and then Bristol and is now back with Cornish Pirates for this season.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Ben Carter as captain then! That surprised me, not because I think it's a bad call, I just didn't think he was on the radar for that. He's incredibly hard-working, so he'll lead by example as they say, I just hope that the added responsibility of making the calls and dealing with the referee doesn't put him off his game in any way. Some players are better left to get on with it.

I like it, as he has to start. Then Dai has to start Cummins, as he’s a new signing. So hopefully Screech as back up and then Joe Davies not playing often.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Sam Scarfe started for Pooler last night, so I guess that tells us where he is in the pecking order.

Yeah, I don’t like this. As it means Jumbo is considered ahead of him

formerly known as Sam wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:We have called up Joe Rees from Hartpury (not sure how that works), but it's probably not a bad shout taking a look at experienced prop forwards from the English championship. Exeter have often done it to great effect. Rees isn't the only Welsh prop at Hartpury either. It'll be interesting to see if Joe Peard makes any sort of impact too!

Generally the idea is to get them in their mid twenties after they've had two or three years of consistently good form in the Championship and try to get them to kick on. Signing them at 34 isn't quite the same idea but he might still do a job.

Exeter found real value at tighthead with Tomas Francis who came through Doncaster and London Scottish. Harry Williams as well who made his name at BUCS level with Loughborough before Notts and Jersey before Exeter. There's definitely value at Champ level but it's no sure thing. Jay Tyack was a beast at Champ level but failed to kick on at Worcester and then Bristol and is now back with Cornish Pirates for this season.

I didn’t catch his age, 34 is less than ideal but we signed Arhip who is 35. We missed a good opportunity to sign some of the Lions front row (or at least try), one of them is with Sharks now. We seen the same scrum issues in the Bath game. Dai et al have refused to address these. Funny that we seemed to be doing alright, then they brought on Griffin who is still a bit of a rookie and we got battered.

Exeter also found Schickerling. Other English teams have found gems at that level too I’m sure. If not, then gems are often found in various South African teams, like Schonert and De Bruin.

Liam Williams defo not coming to us and heading back to Japan.

mikey_dragon wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:We have called up Joe Rees from Hartpury (not sure how that works), but it's probably not a bad shout taking a look at experienced prop forwards from the English championship. Exeter have often done it to great effect. Rees isn't the only Welsh prop at Hartpury either. It'll be interesting to see if Joe Peard makes any sort of impact too!

Generally the idea is to get them in their mid twenties after they've had two or three years of consistently good form in the Championship and try to get them to kick on. Signing them at 34 isn't quite the same idea but he might still do a job.

Exeter found real value at tighthead with Tomas Francis who came through Doncaster and London Scottish. Harry Williams as well who made his name at BUCS level with Loughborough before Notts and Jersey before Exeter. There's definitely value at Champ level but it's no sure thing. Jay Tyack was a beast at Champ level but failed to kick on at Worcester and then Bristol and is now back with Cornish Pirates for this season.

I didn’t catch his age, 34 is less than ideal but we signed Arhip who is 35. We missed a good opportunity to sign some of the Lions front row (or at least try), one of them is with Sharks now. We seen the same scrum issues in the Bath game. Dai et al have refused to address these. Funny that we seemed to be doing alright, then they brought on Griffin who is still a bit of a rookie and we got battered.

Exeter also found Schickerling. Other English teams have found gems at that level too I’m sure. If not, then gems are often found in various South African teams, like Schonert and De Bruin.

Fissler was reporting as many as 7 sides from amongst the URC, Prem and Top14 were looking to add a tighthead if they could find a suitable one. Going to be quite a few scouts panning for gold it seems.

I commented on it previously, but did anyone catch the Bristol game and get a look at Joe Peard? The score doesn't look good obviously, but there could have been some standout performances. I see Canadian international Izzak Kelly is with Pontypool, and has trained with Dragons, we could be keeping an eye on him. He could either be a gym, or another passenger. Actually, I'm not sure if he is returning to play for Ponty as he's not listed as being in their squad.

I didn't watch the Bath game but was 'watching' the live updates on Dragons Twitter. We made loads of changes throughout the game so it's difficult to really judge. On the face of it the scoreline tells a lot, but when you make so many changes (compared to normal) then it's probably difficult to maintain continuity, e.g. Huw Anderson on for Cai Evans on 16 mins (an injury maybe?), Rhodri Jones on for Martinez on 37 mins, Will Read on for Lloyd Evans on 39 mins, Yendle, Nott and Young all on at half time, Benjamin on for Coghlan on 45 mins, Steff Hughes and Dane Blacker on for Dyer and Rhodri Williams on 50 mins, Nick Thomas on for Carter on 55 mins. And still 5-3 at that point. And then it started to unravel. 2 more subs came on later in the game. So it was mostly about game time by the looks, with the replacement players often very much 2nd or even 3rd choice (I'd never even heard of Nick Thomas ).