2022-23 PL season.

First topic message reminder :

Liverpool won the Community Shield 3-1 over Manchester City at the King Power Stadium.
TAA opened the scoring.
Julian Alvarez scored on his City debut.
Salah scored a penalty after Dias handball.
Darwin Nunez scored late on, also ok debut.

Seems like the media really have to hype up Liverpool for some reason…

Debut to forget for Erling Haaland, largely anonymous. And missed a sitter from 6 yards out late on. Hit the crossbar in fact.

Wild over the top celebrations over a pre season match…genuinely baffling scenes.

Should've kept Neco

It’s funny how one signing, Casemiro, brought out the dog in McTominay today. Arguably the Scotsman’s best performance in over a year.
And Malacia incredible performance…Shaw should learn from the youngster.

Liverpool will regret letting Mane go. He was their X factor

Bit early to say. But it would help if Nunez focussed on heading the ball rather than players

Anyway wary of buying into United being arsed to try for 90 minutes after getting pelters again. Should give enough credibility to punt Ronaldo though. Maguire a bit less clear cut given Varanes propensity to miss games.

What looked like a transition year for Liverpool potentially is being exasperated by injuries and stupidity. Nunez was a miss with Firmino offering nothing but Henderson, Milner and Elliott got overran

My overriding feeling having seen all of Liverpools first 3 games is that they believe their own hype a little too much and have got complacent and are overplaying it.

They've got a mix of midfielders that are either probably past their peak, always injured or probably a year or two away from being regular starters. Klopp seems to be angling for someone they can parachute in now rather than waiting a year for Bellingham. Probably have to find a taker for Keita though.

That Liverpool midfield hasn't been good enough for years, it's a mystery to me how they've been so successful having Henderson and Milner play so many games, neither of them have ever been good enough to be anything but squad players for the top sides.

Kevin Trapp close to joining Manchester United. At 32 years old not sure if he’s a starter or a backup. Good keeper mind you.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12679631/anthony-gordon-chelsea-prepared-to-pay-up-to-60m-for-everton-forward

That is crazy money for Gordon. If thats true, I can't see us turning it down.

Also doesn't make sense to jump from £45m to £60m

Milner was more of a squad player/versatile option to be fair. Hendersons legs have gone but he did a job for Klopp. They've managed to work around Fabinho and Thiago missing games I guess

Jeff Navarro wrote:Kevin Trapp close to joining Manchester United. At 32 years old not sure if he’s a starter or a backup. Good keeper mind you.

Be a backup I guess, though might be looking to shift De Gea next year as I think his contract expires in 2024

GSC wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:Kevin Trapp close to joining Manchester United. At 32 years old not sure if he’s a starter or a backup. Good keeper mind you.

Be a backup I guess, though might be looking to shift De Gea next year as I think his contract expires in 2024

The German outlets suggest Trapp is set to replace De Gea as #1. The German will receive 4 year deal.

Refuse to play Henderson because De Gea makes too much. Bench him after 3 games.

Liverpool need investment and Klopp needs to be ruthless. Some players needed to be moved on over the summer, such as Firmino, and the squad depth is embarrassing for a club that is competing on so many fronts. This could be like the 2020/21 season where Liverpool almost fell out of the top four due to their lack of depth, and only made it after a late run.

Liverpool should’ve gone all in for Jude Bellingham this summer. Don’t see them having much hope competing against Real Madrid or FC Bayern next summer.

Don't think Dortmund would play ball after selling Haaland. they'd have a fair chance anyhow

Jeff Navarro wrote:Liverpool should’ve gone all in for Jude Bellingham this summer. Don’t see them having much hope competing against Real Madrid or FC Bayern next summer.

A player of any other nationality and I may agree but English players do tend to want to play in England again sooner rather than later. If he has another good season I could see Man United going for him next year.

Soul Requiem wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:Liverpool should’ve gone all in for Jude Bellingham this summer. Don’t see them having much hope competing against Real Madrid or FC Bayern next summer.

A player of any other nationality and I may agree but English players do tend to want to play in England again sooner rather than later. If he has another good season I could see Man United going for him next year.

Fair point didn’t think of it like that.

I’d still like to see Bellingham, Camavinga and Tchouaméni play together one day.

GSC wrote:Don't think Dortmund would play ball after selling Haaland. they'd have a fair chance anyhow

Ultimately Dortmund have always been a selling club, I think £100m+ would’ve been hard to refuse tbh.

Sure but that's not an insignificant sum in a summer when a significant outlay went on Nunez.

Dortmund are more amenable to a sale on their schedule, like Sancho. They'll dig in this summer after losing Haaland

Anyway for their bad start, you'd still suspect when they get players back from injury, Nunez settled and players find form this is still the second best squad in the country. Not as if United, Chelsea or Spurs have had lightning starts either, and you'd guess Arsenal's fragile side will come out at some point as usual.

Think they could use midfield depth for sure, but a move for Bellingham now at massive expense only makes sense if you think he's going to reel in City. Otherwise they'd be as competitive as anyone for him next summer I think.

Newcastle signing Isak

Manchester United and Ajax still working out a fee for Antony - somewhere between €94m-€100m
For that crazy amount this guy better be some Messi/Salah hybrid.
Mind blowing figures.

That's their first proper marquee, headline signing. Looks good business as well. £60m for a 22 year old with immense potential. Will be great to see Isak in the PL.

United's Antony signing on the other hand.

It’s so annoying Newcastle seem to be doing competent business so far. I wanted a summer of them going full early Man City when they were hijacking signings like Robinho.

Martin Dúbravka close to joining Manchester United on loan according to sky sports.

Because Trapp said no

GSC wrote:

Because Trapp said no

He was only ever going to be back up to De Gea so from a playing point of view it makes sense to stay at Frankfurt and play every game including the champions league.

Trapp didn’t say no, according to the German press, his club wanted £21m transfer fee

Jeff Navarro wrote:Manchester United and Ajax still working out a fee for Antony - somewhere between €94m-€100m
For that crazy amount this guy better be some Messi/Salah hybrid.
Mind blowing figures.

Capital allocation again. They have just not been good at it for years and years. They generate massive revenue but all that poorly allocated cash and debt repayment continues to hobble them.

They may have a good season and get into the top 4 but if not, the process continues.

€94m for an unproven guy from the Dutch league is just crazy. Even the Casemiro deal is suspect. He may be a good player and just what they need but it is a massive outlay of transfer fee and wages on a guy with very limited resale value. I can see why they did it but unless they get back into the CL, relatively early in his contract, it is a lot of money for limited return. I could be wrong, but I don't think Utd fans would be happy with the odd FA or League cup win, given their illustrious history. Probably unfair to pick on that particular transfer but it is useful one to highlight their suspect business model.

You could argue that the Casemiro fee would be more realistic for Antony and even then it seems at the top end. But €94 to €100m. If that is true, wow.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:€94m for an unproven guy from the Dutch league is just crazy.

Ajax have sold a lot of players already this window, so they really don't need to accept anything that isn't silly. Interesting that everyone seems to be using the Euro amount for it though, starting to wonder if that's being pushed by someone.

[Casemiro] is a massive outlay of transfer fee and wages on a guy with very limited resale value.

If you think you're an elite club, resale value is irrelevant because you're the destination, not a stepping stone.

Looks like Marco Asensio is another that could be moving from Real Madrid to Manchester United. This guy was a baller 2-3 years ago. Reported fee is around €30m. Not sure why they need so many wingers.

Lowlandbrit wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:€94m for an unproven guy from the Dutch league is just crazy.

Ajax have sold a lot of players already this window, so they really don't need to accept anything that isn't silly. Interesting that everyone seems to be using the Euro amount for it though, starting to wonder if that's being pushed by someone.

[Casemiro] is a massive outlay of transfer fee and wages on a guy with very limited resale value.

If you think you're an elite club, resale value is irrelevant because you're the destination, not a stepping stone.

There is a world of difference between Ajax quoting a silly fee and Utd actually paying it.

As for your second point, sure, no question. But that doesn't make it a good decision unless he is part of a team that gets them back in the CL. If they do, well played. If they don't, it just becomes another example of poor capital allocation. It is fine lines, for sure, but they don't have a great recent record, that's all.

Don't disagree that they need to get more for their money, I just thought resale value was a strange thing to bring up. If they're buying to make a profit when they sell a player on they've already given up (which isn't necessarily to say they shouldn't).

Lowlandbrit wrote:Don't disagree that they need to get more for their money, I just thought resale value was a strange thing to bring up. If they're buying to make a profit when they sell a player on they've already given up.

I'm not sure it's all that odd, players move on - even from 'destination clubs'.  The ideal model for a destination club is to get what they think will be the best years out of a player and then sell them on at a still decent price and recoup some of the outlay.  If there's no market for a player then there is a greater likelihood that no offers come in before the end of their contract and then they eventually leave for free.

Lowlandbrit wrote:Don't disagree that they need to get more for their money, I just thought resale value was a strange thing to bring up. If they're buying to make a profit when they sell a player on they've already given up.

My point is about capital allocation. I specifically stated that the Casemiro deal was probably unfair to pick on given the state they are in but it illustrates the point.

If people think Utd have done a good job with their capital allocation over the last decade, then so bit it. I can't see many examples of it being a successful strategy for them but maybe I'm wrong. There are, however, a lot of other clubs with a clearly defined strategy, that are performing considerably better both on and off the pitch.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

Lowlandbrit wrote:Don't disagree that they need to get more for their money, I just thought resale value was a strange thing to bring up. If they're buying to make a profit when they sell a player on they've already given up.

My point is about capital allocation. I specifically stated that the Casemiro deal was probably unfair to pick on given the state they are in but it illustrates the point.

If people think Utd have done a good job with their capital allocation over the last decade, then so bit it. I can't see many examples of it being a successful strategy for them but maybe I'm wrong. There are, however, a lot of other clubs with a clearly defined strategy, that are performing considerably better both on and off the pitch.

Shame.

Dele Alli joining Besiktas on loan. This guy has pretty ruined his career.

superflyweight wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

Lowlandbrit wrote:Don't disagree that they need to get more for their money, I just thought resale value was a strange thing to bring up. If they're buying to make a profit when they sell a player on they've already given up.

My point is about capital allocation. I specifically stated that the Casemiro deal was probably unfair to pick on given the state they are in but it illustrates the point.

If people think Utd have done a good job with their capital allocation over the last decade, then so bit it. I can't see many examples of it being a successful strategy for them but maybe I'm wrong. There are, however, a lot of other clubs with a clearly defined strategy, that are performing considerably better both on and off the pitch.

Shame.  

Was going so well up to that point.

Ajax rejected €90m bid for Antony by Manchester United. They really seem to be milking it now. They've sold everyone worth decent money this summer - excluding Antony and Timber

Official line coming in to the season was that they feel they've had more squad turnover this summer than they want to get in the habit of having. Don't think they want to sell full stop, but ManU are desperate and loaded enough that it may end up happening.

Chelsea finally reached a deal for Wesley Fofana. £70m plus various add ons

Napoli offered Victor Osimhen to Manchester United. €120m straight cash + Cristiano Ronaldo goes to Naples on loan. They want United to cover 70% of Ronaldo’s wages as well
All I can say is LOL

From Ajax's perspective they have virtually no time to source a replacement and will be held to ransom for every target given the size of the Anthony fee

Jeff Navarro wrote:Chelsea finally reached a deal for Wesley Fofana. £70m plus various add ons

Done deal €88m all in. 6 year contract.

Southampton 0-1 Manchester United. Bruno Fernándes scored a really good goal created by Diogo Dalot.
United not as effective with the three pace merchants against a side like Southampton.
Malacia and Martinez impressive again.
McTominay was lucky not to concede a penalty with what I thought was clear handball.
Anyway back to back wins in the league for the first time since February.

GSC wrote:From Ajax's perspective they have virtually no time to source a replacement and will be held to ransom for every target given the size of the Anthony fee

Supposedly bringing back Ziyech is plan A.
The thing is that, while Ajax are still very much a 'stepping stone' club and don't expect (or want) to have players for their whole careers, having got back to the CL group stage/'overwintering' in Europe they want to be a mainstay there again. They're not just automatically slotting in the next academy kid (but still do - Kenneth Taylor this year), and have spent more than some might realise because their main focus now is to stay competitive in Europe.

Well Liverpool are back on track

Manchester City 4-2 Crystal Palace - the champions come from 0-2 at half time to win fairly easily. Erling Haaland first PL hat trick, he might end up scoring 60-70 in all comps this season...

Liverpool 9-0 Bournemouth - Liverpool dip their bread against a pathetic Bournemouth side, whom decided defending isn't their thing today. Diaz(2), Firmino(2 +3 assists) chief mayhem creators.

Chelsea 2-1 Leicester - Gallagher was sent off after 28 minutes absolutely brainless. The great man Raheem Sterling with both goals.

Brentford 1-1 Everton

Brighton 1-0 Leeds