England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down

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Duty281 wrote:What do we think of the future of ODI cricket as a whole, because its demise is once again being discussed?

Wasim Akram thinks ODI cricket should be put out of its misery; Mark Ramprakash says that Stokes' ODI retirement could be the beginning of the end for ODI cricket; but Ravi Shastri says there should be fewer T20Is.

My view is that ODI cricket should stay, and it's T20i cricket that should be abolished. T20 should remain franchise/domestic only. No need for a T20 World Cup when the IPL and such exists. If T20i cricket does stay, I think there should be no three format players, only two formats maximum. I'd be very disappointed if 50-over cricket died on an international basis.  

No format will die as long as they are generating revenues.
And much as I used to call them Meaningless-Masala-ODIs, these games as well as meaningless T20Is generate more revenue then tests.
Instead of 5 to 7 ODIs per series earlier...now limited over series comprise of 3+3.
Test Matches, "The Premium Form" of the game per purists ( including me) is still the commercially subsidized format of the game.
Now the defeats in ODIs/T20Is don't hurt as much, nor are wins remembered for long, only World Cups stay in memory.
But the international games generate high viewership rating & expensive advertisements (atleast on Indian TV)

As I wrote on the Ind-WI thread, the Indians have stopped complaining about too much cricket.
BCCI has found peace by putting out as many as 2 and a half to 3 squads now...call them Senior (or premium) and A and B squads for international games.
Ensuring prime stars get plenty of rest / rotation......and the pool of contracted players gets bigger and everyone gets full contracted fee, playing lesser games
Recently we have seen 2 Indian series running concurrently and twice VVSL has been India's national coach for a series when Dravid was with another Indian squad at the same time in another series.

If a marquee player Stokes was under BCCI management.....BCCI would have NEVER let him retire, would have done a sweet deal with him guaranteeing his workload across formats and asking him to appear for a very limited number of ODIs and T20Is and also letting him skip B grade test series.

No format will die since even these meaningless ODI&T20Is are indeed generating revenues, that are essential to subsidize tests and pump into FC, junior and women cricket development

So that's the day done as they go off for bad light...SA win that session and with just three wickets left and a lead of 36 England have rather squandered their hard won advantage.

May still work out for them , of course : you wouldn't put money on SA batting big second time around - but I do think they were needlessly over-aggressive there. Game plan might still need some sharpening up...

It's quite fitting that the umpires allow people who might not otherwise cricket to see how ridiculous it can be. Off for bad light with the sun out. Big chance, under the circumstances to make new fans and someone has to explain to their friend why they might not get some play even with the sun out.

Ouch, only 71 overs today, but the game in such an advanced state that it doesn't matter!

England's batting brainless again. Looks like it will be a struggle to push the lead as high as 70, which is a poor return when the opposition have been bowled out for 118! England should still win from this position, but a competent effort from South Africa in the second innings could mean a chase of 200 which would be no picnic.

Any thoughts on the openers? Next test for England is in Pakistan and I can't justify seeing Lees and Crawley open again. Lees is averaging 24 for the summer, Crawley 17. Not good enough. I might like to see Jennings and Sibley open in Pakistan, though it probably won't happen.

The openers have pretty much got to go, unless they do something remarkable in the final innings of this match. They have both had way more chances than many, many previous players to return a lot less. I suppose it depends who else's dad plays golf with Rob Key

Duty281 wrote:Ouch, only 71 overs today, but the game in such an advanced state that it doesn't matter!

England's batting brainless again. Looks like it will be a struggle to push the lead as high as 70, which is a poor return when the opposition have been bowled out for 118! England should still win from this position, but a competent effort from South Africa in the second innings could mean a chase of 200 which would be no picnic.

Any thoughts on the openers? Next test for England is in Pakistan and I can't justify seeing Lees and Crawley open again. Lees is averaging 24 for the summer, Crawley 17. Not good enough. I might like to see Jennings and Sibley open in Pakistan, though it probably won't happen.

Other than perhaps to spectators who were approached by Surrey CCC last night and shelled out around 120 quid to see what they were told would be 98 overs in the day. As someone else stated on cricinfo, for a day's play starting at 11.00 in this country in September that is ''just disengenuous''.

I'd suspect you will almost certainly see Jennings in Pakistan - interesting that Duckett was called into the squad this time, suggests he might be in the frame? Think he's been 3 for Notts and doing well, so they might push him up to open potentially. Burns should be in the frame really...but not sure if they want to go back to him.

As for the game, disappointing batting performance so far bar Pope - still a shot to get near 200, which would still ensure a pretty significant lead, but an opportunity lost post that rain break to really take a hold on the game.

Be pushing to get up to 200 from here , I think : Foakes has looked pretty sound (and has played more intelligently than some of his colleagues !) but will the remaining bowlers be able to hang in with him ? If Jansen is able to get going again in the morning as well as he was bowling on day one , he might be a bit too good for them. Older ball though , so who knows ?

Even a small lead of course may be significant. Not sure the pitch is going to become a road overnight so SA bats will be under pressure again when they get back in. England bowlers were hardly run into the ground in that first innings so should be good to go again despite limited rest time. And you'd think they would need to rather more than match whatever England make in this innings to set any sort of a target.

As for Crawley and Lees : fair to say they haven't done their career prospects much good this summer (albeit one innings left still) ; but whether England will want to change both positions at once ; or indeed whether a tour of Pakistan might demand a "specialist" like Jennings - who would presumably be only temporary - is something I guess we can discuss after this game is over. Brook , incidentally , looked quite good , I thought : but rather threw away a chance to make a serious first impression with a very poor dismissal. Pope had a fair bit of luck but overall his second top scoring effort in difficult batting conditions in this series will have given his rating a nice lift.

Looking forward to day two ; hoping for decent weather - and wondering if there will be a day three

alfie wrote:Be pushing to get up to 200 from here , I think : Foakes has looked pretty sound (and has played more intelligently than some of his colleagues !) but will the remaining bowlers be able to hang in with him ? If Jansen is able to get going again in the morning as well as he was bowling on day one , he might be a bit too good for them. Older ball though , so who knows ?

Even a small lead of course may be significant. Not sure the pitch is going to become a road overnight so SA bats will be under pressure again when they get back in. England bowlers were hardly run into the ground in that first innings so should be good to go again despite limited rest time. And you'd think they would need to rather more than match whatever England make in this innings to set any sort of a target.

As for Crawley and Lees : fair to say they haven't done their career prospects much good this summer (albeit one innings left still) ; but whether England will want to change both positions at once ; or indeed whether a tour of Pakistan might demand a "specialist" like Jennings - who would presumably be only temporary - is something I guess we can discuss after this game is over. Brook , incidentally , looked quite good , I thought : but rather threw away a chance to make a serious first impression with a very poor dismissal. Pope had a fair bit of luck but overall his second top scoring effort in difficult batting conditions in this series will have given his rating a nice lift.

Looking forward to day two ; hoping for decent weather - and wondering if there will be a day three

Hi Alfie - yeah, 200 does look a strech from where we are but I still keep hoping that Robinson will reproduce the form of his first Test knock and get another 40 odd. Admittedly, as you've said before, his form since then with the willow has been more Jofra than that of my men Starc & Cummins. Talking of which, I'm still waiting on Joey for the points from Pope's dig ... 

Meanwhile, about 25 miles south of the Oval, it's a bit grey and overcast but dry at least. Should certainly get some chunks of play but 98 overs as billed remains a ludicrous pipedream or a marketing man's con depending on your pov.

Hi guildford

Your man Pope indeed kept his Oval reputation intact - even if he got away with a few streaky shots I did admire his almost Root-like busyness from the off. Without his efforts England would have been in as big a mess as the SA innings !   Second time in three Tests where he has been the standout man in difficult conditions : encouraging for the future - though he might face a bit of Trial by Spin in Pakistan...

Your weather report is not over-encouraging : all that "grey" might appeal to the bowlers of both sides but perhaps less so the spectators...

Did like the shot with which Robinson got off the mark : maybe it will be his day with bat as well as ball ?

Alfie - just to say, the sun’s out here now and it looks and feels a lot less autumnal.

guildfordbat wrote:Alfie - just to say, the sun’s out here now and it looks and feels a lot less autumnal.

Ha ! We hexed Robinson

Leach gone too...this has been a bit of a rubbish morning for the home team so far ! Will be lucky to even get a lead of fifty...

Not sure Foakes trying to farm the strike is going to pay great dividends...and indeed it didn't as he's gone too...all gone for 158

Five for Jansen and three wickets for just four runs has SA rampant !

Petersen is a very good slip fielder. Technique is outstanding.

Think the next step for Foakes needs to be developing his game to bat more effectively with the tail - just patting the ball until the 4th ball of the over and taking a single…not really gonna cut it, as they ain’t always gonna hang about long as this morning has shown.

Good work from Rabada and Jansen this morning - England with a slender 40 run lead, but if wickets are going to continue to fall like this then it might be significant! Big session to lunch coming up now

Utter rubbish from England this morning. A lead of just 40. Not good enough.

alfie wrote:Ha ! We hexed Robinson

Sure so! His wait for a second 40 odd goes on and looks increasingly unlikely.

And no resistance from anyone else as England rapidly fold for 158. Jansen takes a deserved fivefer but generally poor batting.

Pretty much now a one innings game over 2 days with England starting with a small lead ....

Lead of 40 surely not what England wanted. Credit to SA comeback , especially Jansen though Rabada also did well after bowling rubbish early on. But I reckon there was some pretty dim batting in that...

On the other hand it looks as if the ball is still doing a bit off the pitch so the England bowlers might not mind getting into action early in the day.

After watching that England batting performance I might be nervous if they were to be set even 200 second time around !

guildfordbat wrote:

alfie wrote:Ha ! We hexed Robinson

Sure so! His wait for a second 40 odd goes on and looks increasingly unlikely.

And no resistance from anyone else as England rapidly fold for 158. Jansen takes a deserved fivefer but generally poor batting.

Pretty much now a one innings game over 2 days with England starting with a small lead ....

It would be contrary to this "fix bayonets , charge" approach England seem to have adopted ; but there might be a case for having Jack Leach bat ahead of Robinson and Broad in order to try and support the remaining top order player (He failed today but he does usually appear to possess at least a rudimentary defence). Send Broad in when you really need quick runs , sure ; but the current order seems to just invite a quick fold up like the one we have just seen.

As I flagged pre-game : despite generally improving with the bat this year , whenever neither Root nor Bairstow have made some runs , England have struggled to pass 150. Surely Root is due a second innings score this time !

I am not a great believer in "momentum"... Reckon it is overrated by a lot of commentators in both series and matches. But if it does ever count for much , SA are going into this innings with plenty behind them.

IF they can get a good opening stand going here , they would arguably become favourites in this match. Might be a big "if" though on recent form...

Nearly !

For Christ sake celebrate when you take one of those low catches as if you’ve caught it!

It's early, but it looks a lot friendlier for batting than it did this time yesterday. Not helping that England's lengths are a little bit too short.

Another stupid waste of a review

I could see at a glance that was pitched outside leg.

All going wrong for England this morning. Need something soon or lunch won't be a happy meal...

You couldn't say either batsman has looked comfortable ; but they've virtually wiped out the deficit already and it seems the "near things" that all went England's way yesterday are doing the reverse today...

Level now and their confidence must be up . Bit early to say they're on top ; but any advantage England gained from the first two sessions yesterday has clearly been wiped out.

England will need to basically start again - and not get too frustrated with the way the situation has changed. A test for them and their positive mindset...

SA lead by five. England down to one review. I'm not sure the morning could have gone any better.

And once again , England have butchered two reviews before the first drinks break.

Will they ever learn to stop "fishing" ? Didn't need any crucial reviews yesterday ; but you never know when one will be vital and you don't have any left...

Time for a cuppa. SA have had a dream morning.

Obviously I'll keep England's recent chases in mind, but South Africa are favourites in a normal world now. In the lead and the ball getting softer, openers still there...England might need Stokes to break the deadlock.

And the first (unsuccessful) request for a ball change...

Now we know England are in trouble

Duty281 wrote:Obviously I'll keep England's recent chases in mind, but South Africa are favourites in a normal world now. In the lead and the ball getting softer, openers still there...England might need Stokes to break the deadlock.

Probably a bit early to call them favourites. The way these games have gone , one wicket might bring five rather than two... Still only 17 runs on , after all.

But England are starting to look a bit frustrated with a lot of "nearly" moments bringing no joy, and the batsmen are getting the full face of the bat to more deliveries lately. If these two make it to lunch they'll be a lot more confidence in their dressing room.

alfie wrote:And the first (unsuccessful) request for a ball change...

Now we know England are in trouble

I think Duty's suggested previously that there be limits on how often the bowling side can request a ball change. Fully agree with that. It's part of the job of the umpires and should be mainly left to them.

Ha ...didn't take Stokes long to get a result

Nicely taken by Root at slip . Needed that.

And so we go to lunch with SA effectively 30/1. Despite the loss of Erwee they will be pretty happy with that session.

England might think they've been a little unfortunate not to have more reward from some quite dangerous bowling moments - Elgar has enjoyed a fair bit of luck to survive a few times. But with the sun out , batting has started to look a bit easier so if these two can get started again after lunch they will doubtless hope to extend that lead and turn the pressure back on the fielding side.

Of course the counterpoint to all that is that if batting conditions are improving they might need a pretty solid lead to be hopeful of defending it - but that's something to consider later...

This is going to be a tough day for England. It looks fairly benign out there. Will need Stokes or Leach to provide the breaks with the aging ball, otherwise this lead will be 250+ by stumps.

Or Broad! Broad provides the breakthrough. Didn't think it was out initially, but Elgar practically walked off. And it wasn't out, that compounds a very poor series for Elgar with the bat.

Well for some odd reason the local TV station lost the feed in the lunch break...and just came back up , literally seconds before Broad pinned Elgar lbw...good timing for me

Oh dear...seems drs would have saved him ! So unusual for a batsmen to just walk off...must admit it looked good to me live - and obviously to the umpire as well. Luck swinging back England's way ?

It's an atrocious call. Round the wicket, and you can see middle and off stump on impact.

Elgar basically made the decision for the umpire though.

I wouldn't say the ball is exactly "old" at 22 overs , Duty. Still doing a bit for the seamers - as it did for pretty much the whole of the two first innings.

Obviously it's a bit better for batting today - better light for one thing ; but I'm not sure it's a batsman's paradise just yet.

If SA can get 250 ahead by the close today they'll be doing very well. Not impossible but will need one or more of these rather inexperienced players to bat big.

Jimmy's turn to strike ! Nice combination of varied length and movement gets Petersen to edge for a very good low catch by Ollie Pope

91/3 and SA need to consolidate here ,,,

A fascinating period of play now with SA's two most inexperienced batsmen facing off against the two most experienced pace bowlers of all time...

Could be this partnership will go a long way to deciding the ultimate destination of the match. Another wicket now might easily see a collapse : but if they can see this spell off and get to the "soft ball" time then the chances of setting a challenging target go up quite a bit.

Great bit of bowling from Broad.

Test match cricket at its finest. A few overs and all of a sudden that 40 run lead feels more like 140.

Broad gets Rickelton...not much doubt about this one , review will not be saving him...

Good bit of bowling from Broad again.

Looking back to the Elgar mistake : I reckon it was the cumulative effect of being hit on the pads three times in a row that fooled umpire and batsman into the decision and acceptance...by that time Elgar had more or less forgotten where his feet were ! Was unfortunate for him : and has had a big game changing effect.

Now : 95/4 and Broad is on the charge...

That dodgy Elgar wicket caused the mini-collapse, may be a bigger collapse, so he should be kicking himself even harder now.

Broad is bowling magically again and Anderson's providing great support from the other end. What a duo.

The Elgar one looked out live but as soon as the replay started it was obviously going down. Dean seemed to lose where he was.

Lol we're gonna dig around and get rolled again.

kingraf wrote:Lol we're gonna dig around and get rolled again.

Maybe. On the other hand , these two have managed to repel some pretty challenging swing bowling and have seen off Jimmy...Broad can't have too many more overs up his sleeve either. Ball isn't getting any younger ; if they stay in runs are going to come sooner or later ...

Of course if one of them makes a mistake and gets out now it is probably all wasted. But I can see why they've taken this approach.

Drinks ; bit of a rest with the hundred up at least.

alfie wrote:

kingraf wrote:Lol we're gonna dig around and get rolled again.

Maybe. On the other hand , these two have managed to repel some pretty challenging swing bowling and have seen off Jimmy...Broad can't have too many more overs up his sleeve either.  Ball isn't getting any younger ; if they stay in runs are going to come sooner or later ...

Of course if one of them makes a mistake and gets out now it is probably all wasted. But I can see why they've taken this approach.

Drinks ; bit of a rest with the hundred up at least.

Partnership is 7 off 44. Its not that they're going slowly. Its that they're not going anywhere.

Sun's out though. I guess if we're batting at close of play. That's a lead in the region of 180, maybe 200. Don't think we'll be batting though.

This day is not going to be anywhere near 96 overs.

Achievement by SA at least in that they've batted longer than either side managed in the first innings

This partnership ten overs now - for just seven runs but at least they are still in.

And here's a boundary ! Zondo might feel better for that.

I know there might not seem to be much happening (16 runs off 12 overs even with a couple of recent boundaries ) ; but this is still quite a crucial battle going on . The two old boys are done for now , and Stokes and Robinson are getting into their spells...really does look like a matter of whose patience wears out first as to whether the bowlers start to concede runs or one of these bats makes a mistake. And I just have the feeling the bowlers are starting to press a little too hard for the magic ball and losing some discipline.

Still a couple of chaps left who can bat ; but this looks like the key partnership.