England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down

First topic message reminder :

Duty281 wrote:What do we think of the future of ODI cricket as a whole, because its demise is once again being discussed?

Wasim Akram thinks ODI cricket should be put out of its misery; Mark Ramprakash says that Stokes' ODI retirement could be the beginning of the end for ODI cricket; but Ravi Shastri says there should be fewer T20Is.

My view is that ODI cricket should stay, and it's T20i cricket that should be abolished. T20 should remain franchise/domestic only. No need for a T20 World Cup when the IPL and such exists. If T20i cricket does stay, I think there should be no three format players, only two formats maximum. I'd be very disappointed if 50-over cricket died on an international basis.  

No format will die as long as they are generating revenues.
And much as I used to call them Meaningless-Masala-ODIs, these games as well as meaningless T20Is generate more revenue then tests.
Instead of 5 to 7 ODIs per series earlier...now limited over series comprise of 3+3.
Test Matches, "The Premium Form" of the game per purists ( including me) is still the commercially subsidized format of the game.
Now the defeats in ODIs/T20Is don't hurt as much, nor are wins remembered for long, only World Cups stay in memory.
But the international games generate high viewership rating & expensive advertisements (atleast on Indian TV)

As I wrote on the Ind-WI thread, the Indians have stopped complaining about too much cricket.
BCCI has found peace by putting out as many as 2 and a half to 3 squads now...call them Senior (or premium) and A and B squads for international games.
Ensuring prime stars get plenty of rest / rotation......and the pool of contracted players gets bigger and everyone gets full contracted fee, playing lesser games
Recently we have seen 2 Indian series running concurrently and twice VVSL has been India's national coach for a series when Dravid was with another Indian squad at the same time in another series.

If a marquee player Stokes was under BCCI management.....BCCI would have NEVER let him retire, would have done a sweet deal with him guaranteeing his workload across formats and asking him to appear for a very limited number of ODIs and T20Is and also letting him skip B grade test series.

No format will die since even these meaningless ODI&T20Is are indeed generating revenues, that are essential to subsidize tests and pump into FC, junior and women cricket development

Thanks for supplying the review with your immediate comments, Duty. I’ll look at before long and I’m sure will also have something to say.

Meanwhile, England’s lead almost 50 thanks to good work from Stokes and Foakes. I did fear - and perhaps still do - that Foakes would go for 20 odd; ie an inconclusive score to do little in determining whether he stays or goes.

Unusually Harmer not looking fully in control of his game. Probably needs one to settle him and then more likely to come.

guildfordbat wrote:

Meanwhile, England’s lead almost 50 thanks to good work from Stokes and Foakes. I did fear - and perhaps still do - that Foakes would go for 20 odd; ie an inconclusive score to do little in determining whether he stays or goes.

He nearly went then, GB!

That didn't look like it had pitched outside leg on first view.

Missing the stumps as well.

As you were.

Good test match batting from those folks in the middle. I think we're seeing that it is a good batting wicket once the ball is past the 30 over stage, and bowlers have to work hard for their wickets. It's a long tail so it could come crashing down in a quick heap, but if England can push the lead past 150 they shouldn't be losing this one. Shouldn't be.

Though one of those spells from Nortje made it look like South Africa could find a magic way out of their troubles. but the 2 Bens have put paid to all that hope with a crucial, and possibly match-decisive partnership. Harmer and Maharaj did get a couple to turn, but this doesn't look like a 2 spinner wicket. And South Africa already lost whatever possible advantage there could have been bowling last with 2 spinners with that dreadful first innings batting performance.
Interesting to note, that Ben Stokes has put away his lower order slogger persona that he recently adopted for some proper battership that he very much has. Despite the few edgey moments that you are expected to have on a track like this, this has been Stokes' most reassuring innings of the summer so far. And he's still scoring at a decent strike rate in the given match situation. Bazball with commonsense can be lethal for opponents...

Maharaj and Harmer have brought a little more control to proceedings for South Africa - albeit I think a burst of Nortje would be advisable soon.

That second hour went very much England's way. Good work from Foakes in support of the skipper...bit easier against the change bowlers of course.

Obviously the softer ball and the better weather makes it easier anyway. Up until this stand , only three players in the match had passed twenty five.

Some spin on offer for SA , which might auger well for them in a fourth innings : but might encourage Jack Leach as well.

Looks as if Stokes wants to get after the spinner after lunch...

Minor grumble - square leg umpires referring stumpings all the time when batsmen clearly haven't moved their feet from the crease.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

Meanwhile, England’s lead almost 50 thanks to good work from Stokes and Foakes. I did fear - and perhaps still do - that Foakes would go for 20 odd; ie an inconclusive score to do little in determining whether he stays or goes.

He nearly went then, GB!

That didn't look like it had pitched outside leg on first view.

Missing the stumps as well.

As you were.

I must be the only one to think immediately that it had pitched outside leg ! Wasn't worried at all as I figured it turned enough that had it pitched in line it would certainly be missing off. Should have me doing Fourth Umpire ...would save time

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Minor grumble - square leg umpires referring stumpings all the time when batsmen clearly haven't moved their feet from the crease.

Sneaky way for the fielding side to get a free review for caught behind...just take the bails off and appeal !

South Africa have kept this spin attack on for too long.

Well, this Test has been a masterclass in sunk cost fallacy. Shouldn't have picked two spinners, and having picked two spinners, should have made the most of conditions anyway and bowled first. Then having been skittled, we've now kept the spinners on way too long in an attempt to justify picking two spinners.

Side, side note - given the general performance of recent selection English batsmen in international Red ball cricket, I was reticent to read too much into Harmer's County numbers as proof of him being the messiah, but wow has this been disappointing. Anyway, all to play for in a week. Should he good

Agree the spinners have been overused. Surely needed to throw Nortje at Foakes earlier ?

However they did achieve two things : slowed the scoring rate a bit ; and more remarkably scampered through 18 overs in an hour !

Didn't get the break though.

Ngidi thinks he has now though...Stokes thinks he hit it ...and he did. Saved !

I know Guildford has been a bit concerned about Foakes - mainly his batting really. And in truth I don't think he is what you'd call a consistent batsman at this level : but this is his second very important contribution this summer - and very timely for him and the team.

If he can manage solid efforts in his secondary role , he will give England a pretty handy 4-7 : perhaps enough to make up for the fragility of the top three - at least most of the time.

Just one more for his fifty...

Stokes clearly has decided to get rapid runs ahead of the new ball. Sensible tactic I think. He's seeing it well enough

Fifty for Foakes

Really well earned...has had to battle at times ; but has kept his head and got the result...very good time for his third half century.

Lead up to 133 : SA can't wait for that new ball in two more overs...

Mickey Arthur thought that was out...

SA should have started with seam after lunch, then they could have gone to the spin, before resuming with rested seam bowlers for the new ball (if necessary). This has been a horrible fudge.

Lead 135.

150 partnership

These two really have played very intelligently : mixed sound defence with controlled aggression - and selected the right option consistently.

SA desperate to make inroads with this new ball. But their pace men have done a bit of work already...and leaving out Jansen looking worse by the hour...

That was desperation.

Never let small, angry and ginger wicket keepers ask for a review.

Desperation showing as SA waste another review. I suppose it was Stokes so any chance they're going for it...

Baffles me why Nortje wasn't used straight after lunch. Saving him "to monster the tail " ?... was not a good idea .

SA really didn’t know what they were doing with that review. The keeper was looking at slip and appealing once he grabbed it whilst the bowler had turned and was pleading with the umpire for lbw before the ball reached slip. Sums up too much of SA in that middle session.

Excellent session for England - great stuff from Stokes, ably supported by Foakes.

Lead is already substantial, but sure they'd like to push it beyond 200 if they can. Already looking forward to Broad frustrating the SA attack with 24 (20) made mainly via top edges and swipes too

Excellent application from Stokes and Foakes in the face of a very ordinary effort from SA in that session. Think we're also seeing that Foakes can do a job when he's got an actual batsman at the other end, because he's a grafter. It's a struggle for him to play with the tail.

Lead nearing 200. Goodness.

Century for Stokes.

Magnificent hundred for Stokes

He's played some great hands before...but I reckon this one is high on his list. Batting his team into a very strong position...

Goes to show what can be achieved when you bat in a controlled manner, he'll score quickly enough as it is so there's never been a need to be reckless. He's advanced down the pitch to Ngidi in particular rather than mindlessly charging any of the bowlers, a little skip to the pitch of the ball when you have time is a legitimate tactic.

Right on queue, he plays a pretty uncontrolled shot.

Great innings.

Broad could be fun to watch.

Duty281 wrote:Excellent application from Stokes and Foakes in the face of a very ordinary effort from SA in that session. Think we're also seeing that Foakes can do a job when he's got an actual batsman at the other end, because he's a grafter. It's a struggle for him to play with the tail.

Lead nearing 200. Goodness.

He will have to play with the tail now I'm afraid as Stokes gets out to a bit of a mishit...end of a great knock. Lead is 170 so the bowlers don't have so much pressure on them as they usually do.

Good catch by Elgar by the way.

More test hundreds v South Africa than against any other nation for Stokes.

But a disappointing end. Should be a speedy conclusion to the innings. Don't imagine Broad will hang around!

Might be a bit early in the day for The Nighthawk

But he's started rather brightly !

Bright and breezy from Broad. Robinson could do with some runs - test average of 9, FC average of 20, a touch of Jofra about him.

Broad cameo was fun as expected. Handy little knock. Took some pressure off Foakes to do all the work.

Robinson is supposed to be competent with the bat - though I'm yet to see much evidence- so he will perhaps be looking to prove he shouldn't be batting behind Broad ...

Lead at 211 . They'd fancy a few more against tired bowlers.

alfie wrote:Broad cameo was fun as expected. Handy little knock. Took some pressure off Foakes to do all the work.

Robinson is supposed to be competent with the bat - though I'm yet to see much evidence- so he will perhaps be looking to prove he shouldn't be batting behind Broad ...

Lead at 211 . They'd fancy a few more against tired bowlers.

Hi Alfie - I'm more positive about Robinson's batting but probably overly influenced by remembering his debut at Lord's last year against New Zealand when he made 42 in a valuable partnership with Burns.

Tbf to you and sadly for Robinson, that 42 is still his highest Test score. 

Hi Guildford - I do remember his 42. It's all the subsequent rubbish that put me off

But he's doing well today : this is the day to make hay in the sunshine because the SA bowlers are running on empty...

You must be delighted with Foakes today ?
...

And here's his hundred

Very well done to Foakes. Under a bit of pressure coming into this one, but has delivered a brilliant riposte.

So : do England want ten overs at SA tonight - or prefer to bat to the close if they can and get them back in the field in the morning ?

Plenty of time left . And it would be nice to see the Burnley Lara hit a quick fifty

But I suspect they'll call it off when one of these gets out.

No rush as far as I can see. Only day two, no rain forecast, just get as many as they can. I'd rather see SA dragged out to the field tomorrow morning, than face a few overs tonight.

Christ, Leach is switch hitting!

Yes...Leach out and Stokes calls them in...

264 lead , about nine overs to bowl ?

Foakes unbeaten , top score ...well done Ben !

alfie wrote:Hi Guildford - I do remember his 42. It's all the subsequent rubbish that put me off

But he's doing well today : this is the day to make hay in the sunshine because the SA bowlers are running on empty...

You must be delighted with Foakes today ?
...

And here's his hundred

Very much so. Not only great support to Stokes but also then going on himself. He's secured his place for some time now. Didn't see much of SA's innings yesterday (nor did SA! ) but I thought he seemed to be taking more of a prominent role in whether to review or not and making correct calls - something I've wanted from him for a little time.

Yes, can't fault Foakes there, a fantastic innings. Also good to see Stokes back with the bat. 3-7 all have centuries this summer now, the openers being pretty dire can be covered if the rest are contributing big scores

Now can England bag one or two tonight ? Robinson had no luck in the first innings : wonder if he might be the danger man this time round...

Duty281 wrote:No rush as far as I can see. Only day two, no rain forecast, just get as many as they can. I'd rather see SA dragged out to the field tomorrow morning, than face a few overs tonight.

Christ, Leach is switch hitting!

Hi Duty - I understand your view about the declaration and you're not wrong for the reasons stated. Equally, neither was the call to give SA 9 overs tonight. Sometimes, you can get more wickets in 40 minutes at the end of the day than in a lot more time the next day.

The only thing which would have been wrong by England - and Olly knows this is coming - would have been to bat on and get all out in the last 3 overs tonight allowing Elgar and Erwee the maximum time to prepare before walking to the wicket tomorrow morning. We've avoided that banana skin anyway!

Pretty comfortable 9 overs seen out by the South Africans, gives them a platform going into tomorrow. Still looks like very favourable batting conditions once past the new ball stage, but the pitch is producing more and more turn.

A chase of 150 mid-late on day four could be a tricky prospect for that reason, but South Africa are 390 runs and at least four sessions away from that. I don't think England will be able to bundle SA out cheaply tomorrow, as they did in the first innings, it's going to take application and graft.

The day belongs to Stokes and Foakes. Solid test match batting that took England from 147/5 into the early 300s. And the key was neither of them came out to bat until the ball was already 33 overs old. It may not have been possible without Crawley's sturdy innings of 101 balls, which was a proper opener's knock.

At the end of day one, England was a head with South Africa with a slim chance to get back into the game. Day 2 ends with England in total command, South Africa outplayed completely. Their poor team selection continuing to haunt them. Simon Harmer didn't quite prove to be R Ashwin or Nathan Lyon or Graham Swann, and the wicket remained flattish and English rather than subcontinental!
Fabulous innings from Ben Stokes back to his normal batting self, and a crucial hand and a fine hundred from wicketkeeper Ben Foakes who in my view, has been getting too much undeserved criticism up to this point. He started off poorly upon recall, but this summer he has been OK without being spectacular up to this innings.

guildfordbat wrote:

Duty281 wrote:No rush as far as I can see. Only day two, no rain forecast, just get as many as they can. I'd rather see SA dragged out to the field tomorrow morning, than face a few overs tonight.

Christ, Leach is switch hitting!

Hi Duty - I understand your view about the declaration and you're not wrong for the reasons stated. Equally, neither was the call to give SA 9 overs tonight. Sometimes, you can get more wickets in 40 minutes at the end of the day than in a lot more time the next day.

The only thing which would have been wrong by England - and Olly knows this is coming - would have been to bat on and get all out in the last 3 overs tonight allowing Elgar and Erwee the maximum time to prepare before walking to the wicket tomorrow morning. We've avoided that banana skin anyway!

My guildford bingo card is complete

Well, given time and score, I think this game is pretty much over. Once you add the anaemic quality of our batting line up ALONG with the fact that we went in a bowler light (and elected not to play Jansen who is, academically anyway, classed as an all-rounder), we've got literally no chance. This next innings will have to be viewed as a chance for guys to put their hands up. The reason we're top of the table is because we've got enough scorers of tough runs to scrape  a competitive total for our bowlers. But England just produced as many centuries yesterday as we have the whole year, so we need some guys to show they are also run scorers. It's a good wicket.

SA's mindless team selection and toss decision certainly came back to haunt them.

They should have been wary of England who have gone a while (not sure how long) since they lost two home Tests in a row and normally bounce back from a horror show with a win.

Can see SA making a much better fist of it in the second innings but they need at least 400 to have any chance. With such a big deficit, they could be, say, 200 for two and then a couple of wickets go down and they have not even cleared the arrears.

Couple of days couldn't have gone much better for England - some fine performances from a number of players contributing to this strong position.
Obviously Stokes & Foakes taking day two headlines ; but we should not forget the efforts of Bairstow and the under-pressure Crawley in making those tough runs against the rampant SA pace men - with first the newish , and later reversing, ball. Without their stand I suspect we would not have seen 400 plus.

Crawley's 38 won't look big on his CV ; but it might be just about his most important innings yet for England. And Jonny's 49 , seen in context , was probably nearly as significant (and difficult) as a couple of those earlier hundreds.

Not much question where this sits on Foakes' record ! Just a brilliant piece of batting , first to support , then to take over from , Stokes , and put the icing on the innings cake . Good , intelligent batting. He knows his own strengths and today he played within them - though SA may look at the data and be less ready to feed his favourite shots next time around !  Think it answers any queries some might have held about his rights to the keeping spot in this side.

As for Stokes : the most composed innings we have seen from him for a while. No silly stuff ; played himself in ; hit Harmer for that introductory six as a sort of statement and then bided his time...and accelerated at the right moment to plunder the last old ball overs and then the early new ball stuff. Just about perfect plan and execution - though he may be a bit cheesed off getting out when and how he did  

Of course the bowlers on day one set it up ; and were pretty good across the board. Reckon they will have to work a bit harder tonight though : no break in the first nine , pitch should be at its best for batting and Elgar is a stubborn fellow... At least the two old boys got (pretty much) a full day and a half rest for once !

I do hope England don't go overboard too early with Leach : fine giving him overs last night ; but with only the early overs and a possible later period of reverse to aid the pace men I think they need to have the seamers as the focus of a full-on attack from the start of day three. Get a couple early and SA might just fold under scoreboard pressure : but if Elgar and Erwee reprise their efforts from Lord's it could be a long day ...

It's a big innings for Elgar, he'll cop a fair bit of flak if SA lose this one, so he needs a score to turn it around and avoid that fate.

Interestingly poised. One of those that could be over by the afternoon, or still running and in the (Gary) balance by stumps.

Right...England are starting with Root. O...K.

Root opening the bowling ?!

Actually might have given him an over last night . But this is just weird...

Amazing stuff from Jimmy. No big score for Elgar.