BKT United Rugby Championship 2022/23 - news and views

First topic message reminder :

Things building nicely for the start of the new season, first of the pre-season games underway getting ready for kick-off in Round 1 on Friday 16 Sept with Benetton at home facing Glasgow.  

Welsh region Cardiff Rugby take on Munster at their Arms Park HQ hoping to make a better start to their season with new recruits Toby Faletau and Thomas Young returning from the Premiership, two raw receipts from Dragons, multi-capped international, Liam Williams moves across from Scarlets, and the hefty Tongan backrower, Lopeti Tomani, comes in from Toulon.

Zebre have Leinster at home, and 3 derbies with Scarlets v Ospreys, Lions and Bulls,  and Ulster v Connacht.  Edinburgh and Dragons finish out the round.

All teams have recruited across the off-season so should be interesting to see how those pan out.

The Italian, South African, American and Irish unions have organised a mini-comp for development players during Oct, courtesy of the SA franchise Cheetahs.   With the squads likely to be filled with academy and upcoming youngsters, initial concerns about them impacting the URC senior squads have been ill-founded.

By the time we get to Round 6 before test players depart to prepare for Nov internationals, there should be a good picture of how teams are faring in the league this season and where they might finish.

Oh and a new 3-year deal for title sponsor for the URC has been announced - BKT - a global brand in tyre manufacturing - who knew? The title applies globally except in South Africa who have an on-going deal with Vodacom currently.

The blurb reads: "BKT’s sponsorships first started in the USA where its tires equip the iconic giant trucks of Monster Jam in all their incredible shows. Today its wide range of sponsorships include Rugby World Cup France 2023, cricket’s IPL (India) and the Big Bash League (Australia), European football leagues; La Liga (Spain), Serie BKT (Italy) and Ligue 2 (France) and also basketball’s Euroleague."

Roll on the Autumn.

Brendan wrote: It still hasn't been said that the PRL will allow other Unions fund specific teams only.

You've been told this 3 times earlier in the thread. IT IS NOT FUNDING. ITS IS THE EXACT SAME MODEL THE ENGLISH OPERATE.

PhilBB wrote:

Brendan wrote:
Why would the WRU walk away from owning part of a league to owning no part of a league and lose control of half their professional teams.  It might give short-term reward but would be a long term bad move.

An article does not show interest, it just shows that a journalist has opinions and is not able to support any statements made.  What person from any of the parties involved has come out to back up the article claims.

On the other hand how many people have said they checked with their sources and it was denied.  If the talks are so secertive that no other person can confirm it or even say it probably true it most likely has not happened.

Why would they "lose control" and what "control" do you presently think they have?

The article doesn't show interest? Okie dokie.

On the other hand? None. Remember?

Well it's from 2013 so no I don't believe it's anything to do with now obviously. You're just confusing my view with someone else's. It does go to show though that this interest, actually no, this done deal was actually nothing. Like I said I'll watch put for you next week to say we'll done on the Welsh joining, or vice versa.

Interesting result from the URC Disciplinary Action taken against Bundee Aki and his behaviour on the day, and previous record - banned for 8 weeks which includes interpro derbies and the 3 Autumn Internationals. Not good for him at all. Could be a good opportunity for another 12 to step up in his absence for Ireland.

Brendan wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

Brendan wrote:
a) & b) Do you think Wasps or Wuss would sell their P share to Ealing and stay financial viable or would they rather sell it to a Welsh team owner.

c) I would be curious if you think staying in the URC would be a better deal than getting about 30% less income than the other teams in the Prem.  
d) If they had to buy shares how do you think they would fund the purchase taking into account the financial viability of the Regions currently and their ability to secure loans by themselves.

e) Previously the SRU looked into if they could buy Wuss, not sure how far it went.  Do you think English Clubs would rather a Scottish run Wuss or a Welsh team if both were choices.

a) Do Ealing fulfil all of the necessary other criteria for PRL entry?
b) Are you confusing the clubs selling their P share or the administrator?
c) No. The URC is Poopie. It's income generation is Poopie.
d) Via the sale of the shareholding in the URC which, as members of the WRU, rightly belongs to them
e) Their choice was made public by Fissler.

Interesting takes.

If the PRL would pay more to Wasps and Wuss for P Shares so they can sell them on for even more money don't you think they would do that.  Can't see a Region out bidding the PRL.

Ealing will be in once the PRL want them in.  Last week things were changed around capacity requirements.

If the URC is a poor money generator how are URC teams in the UK able to spend more that Prem teams on wages.  If it is Union funding how will the Regions be able to survive on 30% less of the Prem funding without P Shares and on top of that not quailify for the RFU top up.  It still hasn't been said that the PRL will allow other Unions fund specific teams only.

The WRU and the three private Welsh Regions are two different bodies.  The WRU own the URC shares the Regions are the ones wanting to go to the PRL.

Being in the URC they are able to sign players and have larger wage caps.  In the Prem that would be alot harder.  Would a team like Cardiff be able to write off all the academy credits of the English cap as how many of their stars are academy graduates.

Re the outstanding on wages on the whole o take it?). That will be in part down to the salary cap and down in part to unions like the Irish and Welsh paying quite alot of money on wages for the teams.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Brendan wrote: It still hasn't been said that the PRL will allow other Unions fund specific teams only.

You've been told this 3 times earlier in the thread. IT IS NOT FUNDING. ITS IS THE EXACT SAME MODEL THE ENGLISH OPERATE.

It's not. The wru pay 80 per cent of select Welsh player salaries for the teams. The rfu have no such agreement.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Brendan wrote: It still hasn't been said that the PRL will allow other Unions fund specific teams only.

You've been told this 3 times earlier in the thread. IT IS NOT FUNDING. ITS IS THE EXACT SAME MODEL THE ENGLISH OPERATE.

It's not. The wru pay 80 per cent of select Welsh player salaries for the teams. The rfu have no such agreement.

Yes. So it's not funding. How The Welsh Rugby Union pay their players is no concern to the URC, and it will be no concern to the Premeirship when we join.

Pot Hale wrote:Interesting result from the URC Disciplinary Action taken against Bundee Aki and his behaviour on the day, and previous record - banned for 8 weeks which includes interpro derbies and the 3 Autumn Internationals.   Not good for him at all.   Could be a good opportunity for another 12 to step up in his absence for Ireland.

1 week off if he does a course.

Pot Hale wrote:Interesting result from the URC Disciplinary Action taken against Bundee Aki and his behaviour on the day, and previous record - banned for 8 weeks which includes interpro derbies and the 3 Autumn Internationals.   Not good for him at all.   Could be a good opportunity for another 12 to step up in his absence for Ireland.

Dreadful clear out though. Saw Paddy McCalister defending it saying if he'd been in that situation and not done it his coach would have hauled him over the calls for not 'hitting or 'blasting' that ruck....and there's the problem.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Brendan wrote: It still hasn't been said that the PRL will allow other Unions fund specific teams only.

You've been told this 3 times earlier in the thread. IT IS NOT FUNDING. ITS IS THE EXACT SAME MODEL THE ENGLISH OPERATE.

It's not. The wru pay 80 per cent of select Welsh player salaries for the teams. The rfu have no such agreement.

Yes. So it's not funding. How The Welsh Rugby Union pay their players is no concern to the URC, and it will be no concern to the Premeirship when we join.

That's just the wru paying 80 per cent of the wages on behalf off the team. Why would the English teams like being outbid by rivals who are only able to do so because they're paying 20 per cent of what the English clubs would have to? I think I could see why they would be miffed personally.

RugbyFan100 wrote: Yes. So it's not funding. How The Welsh Rugby Union pay their players is no concern to the URC, and it will be no concern to the Premeirship when we join.

So why do some posters on here get so wound up when the discussion is about how the Irish Rugby Union pay/manage their players ?

Irish Londoner wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote: Yes. So it's not funding. How The Welsh Rugby Union pay their players is no concern to the URC, and it will be no concern to the Premeirship when we join.

So why do some posters on here get so wound up when the discussion is about how the Irish Rugby Union pay/manage their players ?

You'd have to ask them I guess.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Brendan wrote: It still hasn't been said that the PRL will allow other Unions fund specific teams only.

You've been told this 3 times earlier in the thread. IT IS NOT FUNDING. ITS IS THE EXACT SAME MODEL THE ENGLISH OPERATE.

It's not. The wru pay 80 per cent of select Welsh player salaries for the teams. The rfu have no such agreement.

Yes. So it's not funding. How The Welsh Rugby Union pay their players is no concern to the URC, and it will be no concern to the Premeirship when we join.

That's just the wru paying 80 per cent of the wages on behalf off the team. Why would the English teams like being outbid by rivals who are only able to do so because they're paying 20 per cent of what the English clubs would have to? I think I could see why they would be miffed personally.

Nah they'll be fine. They pay far more for player release than the WRU do after all.

I like how some are screaming "The Welsh teams will be far worse off economically!!" and others "the english teams won't like all the money the welsh will be getting that they are not!!"

You don't even know what you're shoutng about.

funny.

I don't think your point is realistic. I definitely think the English clubs would want to be on a level playing field bidding for the likes of Faletau etc

Irish Londoner wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote: Yes. So it's not funding. How The Welsh Rugby Union pay their players is no concern to the URC, and it will be no concern to the Premeirship when we join.

So why do some posters on here get so wound up when the discussion is about how the Irish Rugby Union pay/manage their players ?

AHH you see the IRFU have been trying to destroy Welsh rugby for years.
All the problems in Welsh rugby, that's been the Irish.

carpet baboon wrote:

Irish Londoner wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote: Yes. So it's not funding. How The Welsh Rugby Union pay their players is no concern to the URC, and it will be no concern to the Premeirship when we join.

So why do some posters on here get so wound up when the discussion is about how the Irish Rugby Union pay/manage their players ?

AHH you see the IRFU have been trying to destroy Welsh rugby for years.
All the problems in Welsh rugby, that's been the Irish.

I mean literally nobody is saying that. On this thread, on any other thread or anywhere I can see. But you go for it.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I don't think your point is realistic. I definitely think the English clubs would want to be on a level playing field bidding for the likes of Faletau etc

That's the situation as it stands right now. Faletau plays against English sides in European competitions. So you're saying the English will only start moaning if Faletau plays against them in a league match?

Do you see how silly that sounds?

RugbyFan100 wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

Irish Londoner wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote: Yes. So it's not funding. How The Welsh Rugby Union pay their players is no concern to the URC, and it will be no concern to the Premeirship when we join.

So why do some posters on here get so wound up when the discussion is about how the Irish Rugby Union pay/manage their players ?

AHH you see the IRFU have been trying to destroy Welsh rugby for years.
All the problems in Welsh rugby, that's been the Irish.

I mean literally nobody is saying that. On this thread, on any other thread or anywhere I can see. But you go for it.

You new here???

RugbyFan100 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I don't think your point is realistic. I definitely think the English clubs would want to be on a level playing field bidding for the likes of Faletau etc

That's the situation as it stands right now. Faletau plays against English sides in European competitions. So you're saying the English will only start moaning if Faletau plays against them in a league match?

Do you see how silly that sounds?

Yet that is the exact argument some Welsh have used as to why the PRL would never be in a league with the irish

carpet baboon wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I don't think your point is realistic. I definitely think the English clubs would want to be on a level playing field bidding for the likes of Faletau etc

That's the situation as it stands right now. Faletau plays against English sides in European competitions. So you're saying the English will only start moaning if Faletau plays against them in a league match?

Do you see how silly that sounds?

Yet that is the exact argument some Welsh have used as to why the PRL would never be in a league with the irish

Cardiff and Scarlets are owned by their Union?

carpet baboon wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

Irish Londoner wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote: Yes. So it's not funding. How The Welsh Rugby Union pay their players is no concern to the URC, and it will be no concern to the Premeirship when we join.

So why do some posters on here get so wound up when the discussion is about how the Irish Rugby Union pay/manage their players ?

AHH you see the IRFU have been trying to destroy Welsh rugby for years.
All the problems in Welsh rugby, that's been the Irish.

I mean literally nobody is saying that. On this thread, on any other thread or anywhere I can see. But you go for it.

You new here???

Yes. So please find me one post / poster saying "All the problems in Welsh rugby, that's been the Irish"

Cheers mucker, I'll wait.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I don't think your point is realistic. I definitely think the English clubs would want to be on a level playing field bidding for the likes of Faletau etc

That's the situation as it stands right now. Faletau plays against English sides in European competitions. So you're saying the English will only start moaning if Faletau plays against them in a league match?

Do you see how silly that sounds?

The English clubs won't like it but have no real say. They would have some and would be able to outvote the Welsh if they were to come into the league. Do you see how that's not silly?

No 7&1/2 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I don't think your point is realistic. I definitely think the English clubs would want to be on a level playing field bidding for the likes of Faletau etc

That's the situation as it stands right now. Faletau plays against English sides in European competitions. So you're saying the English will only start moaning if Faletau plays against them in a league match?

Do you see how silly that sounds?

The English clubs won't like it but have no real say. They would have some and would be able to outvote the Welsh if they were to come into the league. Do you see how that's not silly?

It's preposterous, the RFU pays each England player £25k a game. That's just their equivalent version of top ups. If they didn't then the RFU would just pay the clubs.

But I'd take any regulations on offer, even going into the third tier of English rugby is better than the URC.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I don't think your point is realistic. I definitely think the English clubs would want to be on a level playing field bidding for the likes of Faletau etc

That's the situation as it stands right now. Faletau plays against English sides in European competitions. So you're saying the English will only start moaning if Faletau plays against them in a league match?

Do you see how silly that sounds?

In this soon to be confirmed move of Cardiff to the Prem do Wales keep the 60 cap rule or do they say any team in the Prem is ok for under 60 cap players.

In a few years if LRZ is on 50 caps at the end of is contract and he wants to play international matches will he need to move to Cardiff to stay in the Prem or could he stay at Glaws.

I don’t see why it wouldn’t work? The salaries are around the same. Players need to play for a Welsh team despite what league they’re in, to be considered for Wales (with some exceptions), so the decision comes down to the player. WRU pays their teams/players, like the RFU does for English teams. Every team in the league operates under the same cap.

It’s what some fans have wanted for a while. It’s never gained any traction, until now but it still isn’t much. I don’t see it happening. What’s the chances that the Premiership invites two South African teams instead?

Brendan wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I don't think your point is realistic. I definitely think the English clubs would want to be on a level playing field bidding for the likes of Faletau etc

That's the situation as it stands right now. Faletau plays against English sides in European competitions. So you're saying the English will only start moaning if Faletau plays against them in a league match?

Do you see how silly that sounds?

In this soon to be confirmed move of Cardiff to the Prem do Wales keep the 60 cap rule or do they say any team in the Prem is ok for under 60 cap players.

In a few years if LRZ is on 50 caps  at the end of is contract and he wants to play international matches will he need to move to Cardiff to stay in the Prem or could he stay at Glaws.

They can adopt a similar rule, the player (LRZ in this case) needs to move to a Welsh team to be considered. I guess the idea would be to strengthen Welsh teams rather than give more access. This might also stop the WRU arranging games outside the international window.

This is too soon to have these arguments. Two Welsh sides joining the prem might never happen. All that was reported was a conversation. That may lead nowhere. Could we please park it until/ if this becomes a real event?

Going back to the Aki red card, I heard that the injured South African (I’m sorry I can’t at present remember his name) will be out for six months. If Aki really will be banned for eight matches that is very little compared to that.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I don't think your point is realistic. I definitely think the English clubs would want to be on a level playing field bidding for the likes of Faletau etc

That's the situation as it stands right now. Faletau plays against English sides in European competitions. So you're saying the English will only start moaning if Faletau plays against them in a league match?

Do you see how silly that sounds?

The English clubs won't like it but have no real say. They would have some and would be able to outvote the Welsh if they were to come into the league. Do you see how that's not silly?

It's preposterous, the RFU pays each England player £25k a game.  That's just their equivalent version of top ups. If they didn't then the RFU would just pay the clubs.

But I'd take any regulations on offer, even going into the third tier of English rugby is better than the URC.

Is it not 17k after the cuts?
https://www.the42.ie/england-rugby-players-reduced-match-fee-5190347-Aug2020/

Or has it gone back up again?

Just this week, Mark McCall, the Saracens director of rugby, laid out the complications of keeping a squad together under current salary cap constraints and how early business is being done. Next season is the last with the Premiership cap at its current level of £5 million plus up to £1.4m in credits. The ceiling is set to rise again for 2024-25.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I don't think your point is realistic. I definitely think the English clubs would want to be on a level playing field bidding for the likes of Faletau etc

That's the situation as it stands right now. Faletau plays against English sides in European competitions. So you're saying the English will only start moaning if Faletau plays against them in a league match?

Do you see how silly that sounds?

The English clubs won't like it but have no real say. They would have some and would be able to outvote the Welsh if they were to come into the league. Do you see how that's not silly?

It's preposterous, the RFU pays each England player £25k a game.  That's just their equivalent version of top ups. If they didn't then the RFU would just pay the clubs.

But I'd take any regulations on offer, even going into the third tier of English rugby is better than the URC.

So you're confusing club salary to game fees for internationals? Is that where you're confusing things?
But if the Welsh clubs were denied the chance to deny having 80 percent of their wages paid by their union and they lost those player to the ones left in the urc what is the pull of those Welsh teams in the prem or championship? I can't see why they're better than having Jersey there.

Munster Rugby are looking to bounce back to a ‘break even’ by 2023 despite €4-5m reductions in match revenue.  Their turnover has ranged from €13m-€15m per season during Covid.

“We have to get to an annual break-even position,” according to COO, Philip Quinn. “2022-23 is the target with the IRFU – will we get there? We’re confident that we will. It will be dependent on some things but we’re definitely moving in the right direction.”

“We’ve had to make significant cost reductions right across the club... biggest area is around the player costs, we’ve had to take significant reductions there over the last two years and for the season just finished ‘21-‘22 and season ’22-’23.   We’ve pulled a huge amount out of our player costs and that was evident in terms of losing some of our higher profile players, especially Irish high-profile players.”  We are lucky in terms of the quality of players coming through our player pathway - that we were able to bring those players in - and then unfortunately we are losing a bit of experience from the other end.  But that’s the ‘joys’ from where we’re at following the pandemic and the financial realities of it."

Repayments on Thomond Park’s redevelopment 15 years ago have reduced from €42m to €6.5m over the period.

“There’s a lot written about how that ‘cripples’ Munster – ‘Oh, Munster aren’t competitive, they can’t afford to spend any money because of this Thomond Park debt.’ That’s not a fair reflection of where we’re at as our player budgets are comparable with the majority of our competitors.

“Our repayments on that loan are €100k per year, compared to a turnover of €13-15m and sometimes higher than that – I’m not playing it down – but the repayment is not a big number and there is no interest on that loan at present.”

From Irish Examiner in July 2022.

Brendan wrote:
If the PRL would pay more to Wasps and Wuss for P Shares so they can sell them on for even more money don't you think they would do that.  Can't see a Region out bidding the PRL.

I see that you're continuing to confuse an administrator selling an asset and the club selling an asset.

Brendan wrote:
If the URC is a poor money generator how are URC teams in the UK able to spend more that Prem teams on wages.

Jesus wept.

Because of the international game income, Brendan.

That you had to ask such a question underlines that you have no idea how the game is funded. Quite an incredible question to ask.

Brendan wrote: If it is Union funding how will the Regions be able to survive on 30% less of the Prem funding without P Shares and on top of that not quailify for the RFU top up.

Now, this is a tricky one. Erm, how about the WRU pays exactly what the RFU pays?

There, problem solved.

Brendan wrote:
The WRU and the three private Welsh Regions are two different bodies.  The WRU own the URC shares the Regions are the ones wanting to go to the PRL.

The WRU is a members' organisation, Champ.

Brendan wrote: Would a team like Cardiff be able to write off all the academy credits of the English cap as how many of their stars are academy graduates.

See above for the simple answer to this bonkers question.

carpet baboon wrote:
What does this prove? That the PRL used you for a vote.

Struck a "deal"
The "proposal"

It's good having a desperate neighbor you can dangle a carrot at when you need them.

It's funny how you think any team in the PRL would agree to being relegated to save a Welsh club

What does it prove? Very easy question to answer.

It proves that when you wrote "BT sport's and the PRL had been in discussion with the regions in joining the PRL. Wasn't true then, isn't true now" you were writing completely fabricated, inaccurate nonsense.

That's all.

Brendan wrote:
Its from 2013 but show your point.  They agreed to the changes in Europe which has seen Welsh involemnet slump in the European Champions Cup and still not in an Anglo Welsh league. Even though it wax all agreed.

Tremendous conflation. You may wish to look at the actions of Roger Lewis post 2013 to comprehend the Welsh slump.

Irish Londoner wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Because they don't rugbyfan100.
PRL haven't had initial discussion with the WRU about two Welsh regions joining the prem

Just like when the PRL wanted to reform the European cup and some prolific poster on here proudly announced that BT sport's and the PRL had been in discussion with the regions in joining the PRL.

Wasn't true then, isn't true now

Wow

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/features/featured-post/13343/welsh-will-be-safe-from-aviva-premiership-relegation/

The Rugby Paper article is from 2013 - nearly ten years ago, however to be fair no Welsh teams have been relegated from the English Premiership since then !

I am very surprised that you're now the third poster that I have had to explain something very basic to.

The link was to prove that Baboon was 100% wrong. That was the sole purpose of the link.

carpet baboon wrote:

Irish Londoner wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote: Yes. So it's not funding. How The Welsh Rugby Union pay their players is no concern to the URC, and it will be no concern to the Premeirship when we join.

So why do some posters on here get so wound up when the discussion is about how the Irish Rugby Union pay/manage their players ?

AHH you see the IRFU have been trying to destroy Welsh rugby for years.
All the problems in Welsh rugby, that's been the Irish.

I've never met one person, on or offline, who holds that belief.

However, it's an easy out online for those who don't wish to understand what's going on, of course.

PhilBB wrote:

Irish Londoner wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Because they don't rugbyfan100.
PRL haven't had initial discussion with the WRU about two Welsh regions joining the prem

Just like when the PRL wanted to reform the European cup and some prolific poster on here proudly announced that BT sport's and the PRL had been in discussion with the regions in joining the PRL.

Wasn't true then, isn't true now

Wow

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/features/featured-post/13343/welsh-will-be-safe-from-aviva-premiership-relegation/

The Rugby Paper article is from 2013 - nearly ten years ago, however to be fair no Welsh teams have been relegated from the English Premiership since then !

I am very surprised that you're now the third poster that I have had to explain something very basic to.

The link was to prove that Baboon was 100% wrong. That was the sole purpose of the link.

Sorry Phil. It may look like they were interested from this article, but the truth was quite different.

Sounds like some of the Cardiff team did some on the msking friends and influencing front by some poor behaviour in a Cardiff pub on saturday night.

After being chucked out, they returned to throw eggs at the bar!

If this is true, then sury there is going to be big trouble for some of those players.

People would lose their jobs in other forms of employment for less than that.

That sort of behsviour is not acceptable by rugby players generally these days let alone by highly paid professionals.

Will watch this one with interest.

BigGee wrote:Sounds like some of the Cardiff team did some on the msking friends and influencing front by some poor behaviour in a Cardiff pub on saturday night.

After being chucked out, they returned to throw eggs at the bar!

If this is true, then sury there is going to be big trouble for some of those players.

People would lose their jobs in other forms of employment for less than that.

That sort of behsviour is not acceptable by rugby players generally these days let alone by highly paid professionals.

Will watch this one with interest.

That doesn't look good at all. I hope for Cardiff's sake that one of the players was Josh Turnbull, so they can demote him and actually put out their best team. I doubt it though as he's a good family man.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-63117678

Has made the BBC newspages now

Saw that story initially on twitter and thought it must have been a rival fan stirring up nothing but it seems to have legs. Sounds horrible for the people on the receiving end.

Rumours are that Cardiff have sacked a couple of senior players following this incident.

No names yet, but no doubt they will follow along once the disciplinary stuff is all done and dusted.

BigGee wrote:Rumours are that Cardiff have sacked a couple of senior players following this incident.

No names yet, but no doubt they will follow along once the disciplinary stuff is all done and dusted.

They've put a press release out saying they haven't but I've seen the names & there's a definitely one current Welsh international who was mentioned as sacked & 2 who may be let off.

Things going from bad to worse for Cardiff... They don't look like winning another game at the moment. I wonder if the international is a regular, or someone who just had one or two caps years ago/when we had various injuries...

The one rumour is somebody you’re a massive fan of Mikey

I think that would narrow it down to 3. I can't wait to hear the news!

The lineup has been annoucned, so I figure it isn't Turnbull or Seb Davies. I said in my previous comment that would narrow it down to 3, looks like I might be right...

On Turnbull, why? Starting with him is a handicap.