England's Winter of Cricket 2022/23

First topic message reminder :

Of course we have the World T20 covered in a separate thread, but I thought we should have a new one for England's upcoming games this winter, which feature:

Three ODIs in Australia (17th-22nd November)
Three tests in Pakistan (1st-21st December)
Three ODIs in South Africa (27th January-1st February)
Two tests in New Zealand (16th-28th February)
Three ODIs in Bangladesh (March)

Looking forward to the tests, but I think the ODIs will be instantly forgettable!

Switching sports : I have been glancing at the (thankfully last !) ODI at the MCG...though I can't really get too interested. Ground sounds hollow and looks underpopulated - which is no surprise. Think this series is proof that you can have too much cricket.

On the pitch , Head and Warner are absolutely slaughtering England's bowlers - 199/0 up in the 31st over so heaven knows what they will total. Head already has his hundred and I would expect Warner to join him shortly. Sam Curran the only bowler who hasn't been savaged - yet.

 Salt has been subbed out after a boundary dive head knock and when he gets over his probable concussion may be glad to be missing this one    I reckon most of his teammates are likely wishing the rain interruption we had a while back had been much heavier - but I think we will see a result as showers today are lighter than has been the norm here lately. No prizes for picking the winner today...

Travis Head is giving some socks out there. England's bowlers have no answer for him.

Warner now with his ton.

Hundred for Warner

257/0 from 37 overs. Poor Olly Stone is going for nearly ten per over ; but all the bowlers are getting hit around. Aussie will be looking for some kind of record score here...

When the dust settles though , I think Jos and his lads will be happy with their WC trophy

Head has been terrific indeed - 150 now and probably eyeing a double...

Warner gone at last , some consolation for Stone to have a wicket. Good catch by Willey.

269/1 and Smith arriving in some decent rediscovered form (though they might have considered promoting Marsh or Stoinis ?)

...and I have hexed Head as Stone gets two in quick succession ! Out for a wonderful 152... Collapse is on

Now here is Stoinis...

2 in an over... Stone with some redemption

Yes, it must be hard for England to come down after their recent T20 WC win which already seems like an age ago. As was pointed out earlier in the thread by VTR or was it dummy half? - it's not uncommon to see the victors of one series have the tables turned on them in the next. Especially in England's case with 4 or 5 key players missing, having a rest or injured.

I saw Salt's side-face plant over the boundary too, alfie. He was travelling at a great rate of knots and showed complete disregard for his own safety. He ended up on the synthetic strip just before the fence but he was lucky not to hit the electronic screen on the fence.

Two quick wickets... I should post on here more often, yeah? A fine knock by Head as he's clean bowled for 152 by Stone.

Think that was the second best partnership of all time for international ODIs at the G? They should go on and push towards 400 (or 380 runs at least) but knowing Australia we'll probably now see a cluster of wickets and a total of around 340-350 runs for England to chase.

288 and still 8 overs left...but I have to go and get some cricket practice of my own since it isn't actually raining... Will leave this in the able hands of our Warsaw Correspondent

A couple of more posts from ye now please PJ, just to keep the Aussies under 350...

G'Luk alfie

There’s about 20 fans in the ground (understandably!)

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:There’s about 20 fans in the ground (understandably!)

And 16 of them are Indians. Also two Poms, one Okka and a lost Namibian.

Someone forgot to tell them the series was already wrapped up.

Having returned to find Australia ended up with an almost disappointing 355 . But I see the magic of over reduction has added another nine ... I am not surprised to see England struggling to make any headway in response.

Roy managed to hang around a bit longer tonight I see. May keep him ticking at least - but pretty obvious where this game is going as Moeen comes in for the innings he must have thought wasn't required of him...nearly gone then ! Don't think England are all that fanatical about this game , somehow : no move to get Buttler up the order , for instance. Head and Warner are probably quite (rightly) pleased with their batting but I suspect they've made runs in more challenging circumstances , even if not quite as many.

Actually not sure what this series does for anyone apart from the TV station : Australia are heading for Test Matches , no ? And the England boys surely just want to go and have a glass or two in celebration of the WC win. Still here am I watching it so better pull my head in

Fair to say Vince is "struggling". Against some rather good Aussie bowling , to be fair . But 15 off 38 is not really what you want chasing 364 off 48 overs ...

Moeen bearing a charmed life , it seems...dropped by Zampa now. Not that it will make much difference , I think.

Come on Australia, just wrap this up now and put everyone out of their misery.

Again I feel sorry for Roy as barring a miraculous return to form elsewhere, this could be the last time we see him playing for England.

Good to see this series getting the kind of match it deserves. Does anyone know the odds on an Aussie 3-0 at the start of the series? It was so inevitable you could have printed a lot of money

After watching Vince go and then Buttler throw his wicket away with a shot that fairly screamed "not interested " I think I've had enough.

Woakes wasting no one's time , and Curran has at least avoided the hat trick. Think it's time to say well played Australia (not their fault these games are a bit lacking in competitive interest) and head for that Netflix show my wife is hinting might be more interesting...

Cheers all.

I am with ye on that alfie

eirebilly_01 wrote:Come on Australia, just wrap this up now and put everyone out of their misery.

Again I feel sorry for Roy as barring a miraculous return to form elsewhere, this could be the last time we see him playing for England.

I have the Argentina-KSA match on the main screen... it's quite noisy.
I have this match on the PC... so you barely know when a wicket falls. Zampa has that silent assassin quality about him too.

Maybe they should just shake hands after 30 overs and get the lads on an early flight out? That would be the best and fairest thing to do.

Thankfully it's all over now. Travis Head wins by 10 runs...

Some interesting notes from Will MacPherson in the Telegraph today - England are going to play a warm game vs the Lions in Abu Dhabi where Ollie Pope will captain. Broad and Bairstow were the unofficial VCs for the summer, but both are missing the tour.

Also, the Lions side will feature Rehan Ahmed and Jofra Archer playing against England which is very fun and exciting!

A well fought and intense series all round. Someone should probably explain why scheduling this was a good idea

JDizzle wrote:Some interesting notes from Will MacPherson in the Telegraph today - England are going to play a warm game vs the Lions in Abu Dhabi where Ollie Pope will captain. Broad and Bairstow were the unofficial VCs for the summer, but both are missing the tour.

Also, the Lions side will feature Rehan Ahmed and Jofra Archer playing against England which is very fun and exciting!

I see he’s also said that Duckett will open with Crawley, with Brook batting at 5 - barring anything unforeseen

Joe Root has thrown his name in for IPL auctions

I hear murmurs on Social media that an IPL team might have given Root a soft signal to come and be the captain
I am not sure of T20 format...but Root should be in the ODI world cup squad for Eng and it will be good acclimatization to Patta conditions

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

JDizzle wrote:Some interesting notes from Will MacPherson in the Telegraph today - England are going to play a warm game vs the Lions in Abu Dhabi where Ollie Pope will captain. Broad and Bairstow were the unofficial VCs for the summer, but both are missing the tour.

Also, the Lions side will feature Rehan Ahmed and Jofra Archer playing against England which is very fun and exciting!

I see he’s also said that Duckett will open with Crawley, with Brook batting at 5 - barring anything unforeseen

Yep. Livingstone batted above Jacks too (and launched some sixes) so he looks to be in pole position for the spin bowling all rounder. So leaves us looking something like…

Duckett, Crawley, Pope, Root, Brook, Stokes, Livi, Foakes, Robinson/Anderson, Wood, Leach.

Which feels a seamer light to me. I’d have both Anderson and Robinson in instead of Brook I think.

KP_fan wrote:Joe Root has thrown his name in for IPL auctions

I hear murmurs on Social media that an IPL team might have given Root a soft signal to come and be the captain
I am not sure of T20 format...but Root should be in the ODI world cup squad for Eng and it will be good acclimatization to Patta conditions

Root was an underrated T20 player. Made a superb 80 as England chased 230 vs SA in the 2016 T20 WC in India. But I do wonder if the game has passed him by a bit, as he has barely played in recent years and your Williamson/Smith types are becoming redundant.

JDizzle wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

JDizzle wrote:Some interesting notes from Will MacPherson in the Telegraph today - England are going to play a warm game vs the Lions in Abu Dhabi where Ollie Pope will captain. Broad and Bairstow were the unofficial VCs for the summer, but both are missing the tour.

Also, the Lions side will feature Rehan Ahmed and Jofra Archer playing against England which is very fun and exciting!

I see he’s also said that Duckett will open with Crawley, with Brook batting at 5 - barring anything unforeseen

Yep. Livingstone batted above Jacks too (and launched some sixes) so he looks to be in pole position for the spin bowling all rounder. So leaves us looking something like…

Duckett, Crawley, Pope, Root, Brook, Stokes, Livi, Foakes, Robinson/Anderson, Wood, Leach.

Which feels a seamer light to me. I’d have both Anderson and Robinson in instead of Brook I think.

I think one way or another, we're going to look light on something - without that proper spin bowling all rounder, it becomes tough to balance the side in the sub continent.
I tend to think the approach they seem to be going for, will be the best one...but you are suddenly relying a fair bit on Wood and Stokes for seam overs, two who aren't renowned for their consistent fitness.
I think they're probably viewing it as Leach, Wood, Robinson/Anderson will bowl the main three bowler overs, and between Stokes/Livi/Root you can get 4th and 5th bowler overs from them...

Pack it full of batting, try rack up huge scores, and grind away in the field...

If it’s flat, like I expect, I think LL (or Jacks, who made 84 off 48) at 7 and Foakes at 8 is overkill. If you aren’t racking up a monster score with 7, you don’t need 8! Especially with, like you say, injury prone/fitness issues/just really old seamers like England have.

Rehan Ahmed officially added to the Test squad! That must be the best 0-73 off 8 McCullum and Stokes have ever seen.

JDizzle wrote:If it’s flat, like I expect, I think LL (or Jacks, who made 84 off 48) at 7 and Foakes at 8 is overkill. If you aren’t racking up a monster score with 7, you don’t need 8! Especially with, like you say, injury prone/fitness issues/just really old seamers like England have.

Rehan Ahmed officially added to the Test squad! That must be the best 0-73 off 8 McCullum and Stokes have ever seen.

I read he is only 18 and would be the youngest to play test cricket for Eng.
That would be among the oldest youngest given that Indians set the bar at 16 years ( Tendulkar, Laxamn, Parthiv) and Pak at about 14 years

BUT it's heartening to see Eng do what Imran was fampous for doing onetime.....pluck out raw teenage  talent from nets and throw them into test cricket

Of course the age of some Pakistan players has been shown to be somewhat dubious in the past.

Looking at the scorecard it doesn't seem that England will learn much from this game. Terrible that this is the only warm-up they'll get for a test series in subcontinent conditions. Good to see Archer getting through some overs, though.

VTR wrote:Good to see this series getting the kind of match it deserves. Does anyone know the odds on an Aussie 3-0 at the start of the series? It was so inevitable you could have printed a lot of money

I believe it was around 6/4. England 3-0 was about 12/1!

JDizzle wrote:If it’s flat, like I expect, I think LL (or Jacks, who made 84 off 48) at 7 and Foakes at 8 is overkill. If you aren’t racking up a monster score with 7, you don’t need 8! Especially with, like you say, injury prone/fitness issues/just really old seamers like England have.

Rehan Ahmed officially added to the Test squad! That must be the best 0-73 off 8 McCullum and Stokes have ever seen.

He's been impressing in nets apparently - I think we all said it was highly likely he gets added to the official squad seeing as he was going along anyways.

Hopefully he gets a go - bowling might be a bit raw, but as we were chirping on here during the summer, he's batting 5 and made a first class ton already - so could possibly be in play to bat 8 if they turn up and it clearly needs more than Leach and Livi/Jacks?

A young legspinner who can bat thrown in for a Test debut. Brings back my PTSD around Chris Schofield

Joking aside, good luck to him if he does get a match and let's not expect too much, this will be part of a much longer term investment

Wouldn't be surprised if England go batting heavy in the first Test , just to see how it goes - and possibly fiddle with things after that with additional bowling choices depending on conditions ?
If pitches are extremely flat , I fear expecting too much work from three main bowlers plus "allrounders" might be both unlikely to work well and create serious wear and tear risk for the likes of Wood and Stokes.

Will certainly be fascinated to see if Rehan Ahmed gets to do more than carry drinks and bowl in the nets : bold selections seem to be possible under Baz & co , so who knows ?

Looks like the Lions are going well in reply to England today - seems from reports to be a pancake wicket with 60 yard boundaries, so might help explain some of the ridiculous scoring happening! Hameed with a century today so far...he's just flirting on the edges of selection again isn't he? Good end to the county season too.

Re: Rehan Ahmed - reading reports, folk on the ground journo wise seem to think it's unlikely he plays, but they've been really impressed with him around the camp and in nets, so wanted to officially get him as part of the squad, and would be willing to use him if needed. McCullum's quote was, "We know he’s not the finished article and has raw potential, but Ben Stokes, myself and the rest of the coaches like how he approaches his game. The experience of being part of the squad in Pakistan will be hugely beneficial to him."

Suggests to me ideally they just have him along to gain experience. But this is England in the sub-continent, wild selections do happen!

"England in control despite Hameed ton" (with a picture of him in his England helmet) on the BBC Sport site. Took me a few seconds, even having seen this thread.

https://twitter.com/Yas_Wisden/status/1595750014642536455?s=20&t=NM2OUxE_PhuqZSXbn5Y27A

Ok "I think we will be commentating on you very soon" hit me right in the feels

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/england-in-pakistan-2022-23-ben-stokes-puts-prep-over-precedent-as-england-ease-towards-pakistan-challenge-1346492

England's warm up was deemed so pointless that they scrapped the third and final day.

Eng-Pak Iwill be an interesting series that I am looking forward to.
Also running will be Aus-WI....less interesting and more one sided  and Ind-BD where if India is not careful they stand risk of Losing on a Crumbler.

Eng have creating an air of expectation with what they have achieved in last 7 tests under Stokes/McCullum vs Ind, SA and NZ.

Pakistan are mercurial and capable of anything.

Pak should produce spinning pitches as they have good quality spinners and Eng do not.
( although in their last series Pak crumbled in last test to the spin of Lyon)

Eng exceed Pak in batting ( thru depth ) , planing and execution and match/ exceed them in seam attack if the pitches are seaming type.

Eng lacks good spinners...Jack Leach is a respectable figure in my view, a good second spinner who comes into his own in 4th innings...but that's all that they have got.

Eng make even no pretensions of having a Dom Bess or equivalent proper another specialist spinner at FC level in their squad

So Livingston will play as second spinner ?
Laws of success at test level are like laws of gravity in my view...hard to defy.
When Livingston will be proven bits and pieces, by T2 or T3 Eng will be forced to play the 18 year old leggie...and that could be exciting.
Not because I have seen him...but in general I get excited at the prospect of a young teenage prodigy thrown in raw into test cricket.

The more I read the situation....the more it appears  an inevitability that Pak will make spinning pitch with 2 quality spinners in their 11 ( a leggie and a SLA)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDdlejj6SbY

Good interview with McCullum here - it's easy to see how as a captain he was able to get that NZ team turned round and moulded into his style, he talks really well and is pretty clear on what he is trying to build environment wise. Interesting to hear him talk about not getting too involved in the technical side of the game too.

From reports it sounds like Wood won't be ready for the 1st test. Duckett will open alongside Crawley, and from what they're saying the other decisions will be made on how they judge the pitches? From how McCullum talked about Livingstone, seems like he has the edge on Jacks for the "2nd spin option" role.

I don't quite see the logic in taking Jennings on tour and not selecting him, i'd be playing him every time he's available on the subcontinent. Afridi being out negates his issues to the new ball massively.

Duckett, Crawley, Pope, Root, Brook, Stokes, Foakes, Livingstone, Leach, Robinson, Anderson

For some reason England carry on naming their side early. Absolutely no benefit to them. As discussed above, seems a seamer light with only Anderson (old), Robinson (fitness issues previously) and Stokes (always hurt) - very one paced too. I hope Robinson can reverse it.

Also agree with Soul - I would have opened with Keaton, albeit Pakistan’s strength (even sans Shaheen) is pace. Their spinners haven’t been much cop in Tests recently.

Jennings should be in but he doesn't fit the Bazball mould.

Pakistan should prepare turning pitches, especially with Shaheen out. I'm guessing England are expecting them to as they've only picked two frontline seamers + whatever Stokes can manage. Livingstone, hasn't played a FC game in 2022, is a very bold call and is an old-style bits and pieces player, though his inclusion may mean Foakes doesn't have to bat with the tail!

JDizzle wrote:Duckett, Crawley, Pope, Root, Brook, Stokes, Foakes, Livingstone, Leach, Robinson, Anderson

For some reason England carry on naming their side early. Absolutely no benefit to them. As discussed above, seems a seamer light with only Anderson (old), Robinson (fitness issues previously) and Stokes (always hurt) - very one paced too. I hope Robinson can reverse it.

Also agree with Soul - I would have opened with Keaton, albeit Pakistan’s strength (even sans Shaheen) is pace. Their spinners haven’t been much cop in Tests recently.

With Wood unavailable I think going with three seamers + Leach and Livingstone approach probably is the best of a bad hand to play.

Unsure what type of pitches they’ll prepare - my gut says similar to the Aussie series last year, which will make for some rather mundane periods of cricket to watch I suspect. As you say, their spinners aren’t actually that good and if you’re gonna prepare a Bunsen, I actually like our chances with Root’s ability on them and Leach being extremely effective on that type of surface.

Going to be a tough series for England I suspect, but excited to see if Pope can continue on from his good summer and how Brook goes in his first tests in particular. If the ball does reverse, all three of those seamers should be able to get it going well, even if not express pace (beautiful memories of that Anderson over in the first India test in 2021 spring to mind)

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/cricket/news/stomach-bug-sweeps-through-england-camp-on-eve-of-pakistan-test/articleshow/95877796.cms

Is this True?
Tilts the balance in favor of home team?

Imagine it will get pushed back a day but to be seen what team England can put out and whether the XI can make the entire game. Seems pretty serious

Unsure if they could postpone the test. Logistical concerns, not much turn-around time to the second, and is there any guarantee the England team would recover in time in any case? These bugs usually take longer than 48h to recover from.

That's a blow. Not sure what they can do about it : might end up with the masseur and scorer having to act as subs

Took their own chef too but it doesn't seem to have done much good. Tours of Pakistan have a bit of a history of odd problems...

It'll be OK, England can round up the coaching staff and media personnel to make a team. So that's:

Trescothick and McCullum opening. Key in at 3. Nasser can chip in at 4, with Gower adding the flair at 5. Atherton can reinvent his career as a leg-spinning all-rounder at 6. That's a good top six.

alfie wrote:That's a blow. Not sure what they can do about it : might end up with the masseur and scorer having to act as subs
.

This is stuff teenage dreams are made up of......
Used to imagine Indian team travelling on an overseas tour falls sick to something like diarrhea.....
and are short of putting up a playing 11 on match day..
and desperately looking for volunteers.....
and I happen to be in that country...around the nets / stadium / team hotel
and I happily answer distress call.......
and play the test....
and against all odds hang in with the bat and score a tough fifty and then pluck about 3 wickets out with booming off-breaks  

Well they are going to start on time - apparently England reckon they can put XI on the field ; though it probably won't be the eleven they named , or wanted , to put up. We await the toss and the announcement of those deemed fit...

I am sure Olly will be breathless with excitement at the very real prospect of Rehan Ahmed getting a spot

So : no Ahmed (sorry , Olly) : but poor old Ben Foakes is out , Pope to keep wicket. Will Jacks comes in - consolation for Olly

Stokes wins the toss and elects to bat. Crawley Duckett Pope Root Brook Stokes Jacks Livingstone Leach Robinson Anderson.

Long batting line-up !

Think from what we were hearing earlier , Leach in particular will be glad they are batting first. Maybe Jimmy as well.