Silly Season Transfer Rumours 22/23

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And.....off you go.

Worst kept secret ever. H-C to Leicester.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Worst kept secret ever. H-C to Leicester.

Let's face it not many signings are a surprise.

He's the left winger we've been missing. Nadolo leaving and then injuries to Saumaki and Murimurivalu have limited our attack down that side of the pitch.

Superb signing for you.

Great signing for tigers. Big loss for Irish.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Worst kept secret ever. H-C to Leicester.

Let's face it not many signings are a surprise.

He's the left winger we've been missing. Nadolo leaving and then injuries to Saumaki and Murimurivalu have limited our attack down that side of the pitch.

It will interesting to see how he develops with you. I personally think he's a pretty average Prem winger with no real outstanding asset....can he kick on?

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Worst kept secret ever. H-C to Leicester.

Let's face it not many signings are a surprise.

He's the left winger we've been missing. Nadolo leaving and then injuries to Saumaki and Murimurivalu have limited our attack down that side of the pitch.

It will interesting to see how he develops with you. I personally think he's a pretty average Prem winger with no real outstanding asset....can he kick on?

71 games and 35 tries in the Prem. At international level there's plenty of questions of him but not at Prem level.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Worst kept secret ever. H-C to Leicester.

Let's face it not many signings are a surprise.

He's the left winger we've been missing. Nadolo leaving and then injuries to Saumaki and Murimurivalu have limited our attack down that side of the pitch.

It will interesting to see how he develops with you. I personally think he's a pretty average Prem winger with no real outstanding asset....can he kick on?

71 games and 35 tries in the Prem. At international level there's plenty of questions of him but not at Prem level.

And 39 tries in 91 games in all comps which isn't particularly impressive.

He's a middle of the road Prem winger which is fine.... although I would expect better stats tbh playing in that Irish side.

Intrigued to see how he gets on with you.

Looking on all.rugby for stats, Hassell-Collins scores a try every 180 minutes he plays. Been that way consistently for four seasons though in one of them he scored four of his nine tries against Gloucester in a single game. He consistently gets 10ish tries a year whilst playing 20-25 games.

He is consistently scoring at higher levels than Radwan or Loader (using the weaker club comparison). Looking at bigger clubs, Murley at Quins has scored a try every 90 minutes this year and 133 minutes last year. Malins is around the 100-110 minutes mark for the last couple of seasons. Nadolo, who OHC will likely be replacing on the left wing, is around a try every 100-150 minutes over the last few years.

Would say he is a good premiership wing with a good strike rate (based on stats) supported by how London Irish play. Leicester won't give him as much ball but he might get it closer to the line. Overall though, don't see what is his point of difference at international level. Is he a poor man's James Lowe?

I think OHC is a terrific signing partly because I think he's just below international level. He should be available lots.

He hasn't yet got the kicking or defensive game to be an all-rounder and whilst powerful isn't in a bracket with the likes of Duhan, Koroibete and Tuisova as being such an attacking force that he can overcome that.

Players do improve massively in defence (May for instance) and can develop stronger kicking games (Lowe) but there's a long way to go for him to be international standard in both. It's worth saying that he does have an absolute cannon of a boot if he can learn to use it accurately and smartly though. Lowe definitely did that. He always had a huge punt but didn't use it that well. In Ireland and Leinster's systems he's turned it from a weakness to a strength.

A very good Premiership wing basically. If Tigers can get him ball in the opposition 22 he will finish lots of tries at that level with his pace and size.

Hazel Sapling wrote:Looking on all.rugby for stats, Hassell-Collins scores a try every 180 minutes he plays. Been that way consistently for four seasons though in one of them he scored four of his nine tries against Gloucester in a single game. He consistently gets 10ish tries a year whilst playing 20-25 games.

He is consistently scoring at higher levels than Radwan or Loader (using the weaker club comparison). Looking at bigger clubs, Murley at Quins has scored a try every 90 minutes this year and 133 minutes last year. Malins is around the 100-110 minutes mark for the last couple of seasons. Nadolo, who OHC will likely be replacing on the left wing, is around a try every 100-150 minutes over the last few years.

Would say he is a good premiership wing with a good strike rate (based on stats) supported by how London Irish play. Leicester won't give him as much ball but he might get it closer to the line. Overall though, don't see what is his point of difference at international level. Is he a poor man's James Lowe?

Good summary HS.

I'd stick HC in the average wingers currently in the prem with Radwan the next bracket up personally.

Radwan's return of 34 tries in 67 starts is obviously much better statistically....but even more impressive than when you think of Falcons try return over the last 5 or 6 years.

I don't think it's harsh suggesting HC is an average Prem wing as that's pretty much what he is. His stats are middle of the road and he'd probably get a start in 3 or 4 sides.

I wouldn't take him at Falcons....but I'd have Tom Pearson every day of the week!

Just pick wingers on tries scored like beshocked used to say. Easy peasy.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Worst kept secret ever. H-C to Leicester.

Let's face it not many signings are a surprise.

He's the left winger we've been missing. Nadolo leaving and then injuries to Saumaki and Murimurivalu have limited our attack down that side of the pitch.

It will interesting to see how he develops with you. I personally think he's a pretty average Prem winger with no real outstanding asset....can he kick on?

71 games and 35 tries in the Prem. At international level there's plenty of questions of him but not at Prem level.

And 39 tries in 91 games in all comps which isn't particularly impressive.

He's a middle of the road Prem winger which is fine.... although I would expect better stats tbh playing in that Irish side.

Intrigued to see how he gets on with you.

Out of interest which available Prem winger would have been a better option?

OHC is absolutely not an average prem wing. He may not make it as an international, but he'd be near the top of any premiership DOR's shopping list. He's very good both sides of the ball. No idea where this impression that he's poor defensively comes from. He's got the best defence of any of the LI outside backs.

This came up that probably paints a picture of his value too.

https://twitter.com/OptaJonny/status/1640706055020900355?t=zEFPbxzLU2W5nNjRf-H9xA&s=19

It'll be interesting to see what McKellar does with the side, under Borthwick the left winger was often given licence to roam or hug the touch line depending on where they thought the space was. Nadolo used that role to brutal effect, if OHC is deployed in a similar way then he might find himself getting his hands on the ball plenty and in various areas of the field.

Margin_Walker wrote:OHC is absolutely not an average prem wing. He may not make it as an international, but he'd be near the top of any premiership DOR's shopping list. He's very good both sides of the ball. No idea where this impression that he's poor defensively comes from. He's got the best defence of any of the LI outside backs.

This came up that probably paints a picture of his value too.

https://twitter.com/OptaJonny/status/1640706055020900355?t=zEFPbxzLU2W5nNjRf-H9xA&s=19

Average isn't a slight...he's not below average.

There's 22 starting wingers in the Prem? Top of my head I'd probably take 12ish ahead of him....puts him roughly in the middle....average.

All opinions, I know some rate the lad.

I want to know how Leicester can afford him under the cap.

doctor_grey wrote:I want to know how Leicester can afford him under the cap.  

Nadolo and Hegarty have both left mid season and Watson is likely to be off at the end of the season.

Tigers squad situation is a bit odd currently. I really like the players confirmed for next season but with a lot more likely/potential leavers and very few rumoured further signings it isn't the biggest squad for a RWC year in terms of numbers.

Midseason departures - Wigglesworth, Burns, Nadolo, Hegarty
Confirmed end of season departure - Jansen
Likely/possible end of season departures - Taufete'e, Leatigaga, van Wyk, Snyman, Woolstenholme, Gopperth, Saumaki, Ashton, Watson, Murimurivalu

Confirmed in - Hatherell, Bassett, Shillcock, Brown
Rumoured in - West (extension coming under the cap rather than injury dispensation)

Of those possible departures I'd say Gopperth is the only that seems very likely to still be here. He's rumoured to be on a 1+1 (i.e. one year deal with potential extension if both parties want it) so might be extended for a RWC year. After a rocky start, in which he was very poorly used to fair, he's played well the last month.

Either the senior squad will be considerably smaller which is a gamble in a RWC year or there's some squad signings still to come with zero rumours floating around. I'd say it's a situation that's intriguing more than concerning me though given the players assembled I think are very good indeed.

Squad for next season.

Hooker - Montoya, Dolly, Clare, FTT
LH - Cronin, Whitcombe
TH - Cole, Heyes, Hurd
Both - Richardson
Lock - Chessum, Wells, Green, Henderson
Hybrid - Martin
Backrow - Liebenburg, Weise, Reffell, Ilione, Hatherhall, Cracknell
9 JVP, Youngs, Whiteley, Edwards
10. Pollard, Atkinson
Centre - Gopperth, Scott, Kelly, Porter, Cokanasiga
Back three - Steward, Brown, Shillcock, OHC, Simmonds, Potter

38 man squad not including any youngsters that might step up. I'd expect Vanes to stay on and be the fifth hooker but then we are looking light at prop and could do with another utility back and utility forward (backrow). Hopefully West is the prop.

Newcastle deny that they're about to voluntarily drop out of the prem (still trying to do it the traditional way ba dum tish) and London Irish players and staff are trying to seek assurance that they're going to get paid this month.

Losing either side would not be good they both develop players for England. Newcastle going would leave Sale very lonely up north, we need more presence in that part of the country not less.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Newcastle deny that they're about to voluntarily drop out of the prem (still trying to do it the traditional way ba dum tish) and London Irish players and staff are trying to seek assurance that they're going to get paid this month.

Newcastle have denied this. They were apparently approached by the journalist yesterday to confirm if it was true.....they said it most certainly isn't and the story was ran anyway.

The clue was in the second word! LI also deny it.

Ah....so it is!

On wingers.....apparently Wade is doing some good things in France.

He had a good game then? Saw he'd scored on his debut.

Wade has scored seven tries in his eight starts this year. Failed to score in just two of them (Quins away, played 44 minutes otherwise played 80 in all the others ones).

Hazel Sapling wrote:Wade has scored seven tries in his eight starts this year. Failed to score in just two of them (Quins away, played 44 minutes otherwise played 80 in all the others ones).

I didn't see that he'd scored on debut then. Been out injured then?

Not in the team since November so guessing he must have been.

How's his defence these days Hazell?

Scored at the weekend. Ridiculous footwork but at nearly 32 will be interesting to see if any Prem club a) would take a chance on him b) be able to offer more than he can get in France.

Still annoyed that Gatland called im up for the Lions to then not give him anything other than the injury avoidance game with no prep. Couple of injuries stopped him under Lancaster then nothing. Radwan is surely the better option now but I ain't seen him in France.

https://twitter.com/Top14PasOff/status/1640076271899090947?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1640076271899090947%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

I couldn't imagine Malins finishing that.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not in the team since November so guessing he must have been.

How's his defence these days Hazell?

No idea, just looked up his stats. Ridiculously good finisher. Suspect his defence is still not good enough for international level. Good old player for Leicester to sign to maintain the age profile of the team

No 7&1/2 wrote:Newcastle deny that they're about to voluntarily drop out of the prem (still trying to do it the traditional way ba dum tish) and London Irish players and staff are trying to seek assurance that they're going to get paid this month.

Smithy has been on and angrily denied this is happening...they told the reporter not to run with it. I wonder if there could be legal goings on about this.

He also said we have signed lesser players for those gonig out...i dont think we have.

Heres the post

https://www.cityam.com/premiership-rugbys-newcastle-falcons-deny-plan-of-voluntary-relegation/

Hazel Sapling wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not in the team since November so guessing he must have been.

How's his defence these days Hazell?

No idea, just looked up his stats. Ridiculously good finished. Suspect his defence is still not good enough for international level. Good old player for Leicester to sign to maintain the age profile of the team

To expensive to join the grey hoard at Tigers. We've used the older guys as cheaper squad options so we can plug gaps with experience. The first choice backline is pretty young so that works well.

Wade wouldn't suit our tactical kicking game either.

king_carlos wrote:
Likely/possible end of season departures - Taufete'e, Leatigaga, van Wyk, Snyman, Woolstenholme, Gopperth, Saumaki, Ashton, Watson, Murimurivalu

Are these all confirmed as out of contract in the summer currently?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Just pick wingers on tries scored like beshocked used to say. Easy peasy.

I miss beshocked. He was a passionate man

i bet hes still here

Welshmushroom wrote:

king_carlos wrote:
Likely/possible end of season departures - Taufete'e, Leatigaga, van Wyk, Snyman, Woolstenholme, Gopperth, Saumaki, Ashton, Watson, Murimurivalu

Are these all confirmed as out of contract in the summer currently?

Gopperth is on a 1+1 contract so if both parties are happy he'll stay another year. The rest are all presumed to be out of contract based on last renewal or reports at time of signing or interviews given since.

I think Gopperth will stay personally.

Sam Woolstenholme signed for Bristol next season, as has Gabriel Oghre

Oghre is a really good pick up for them. Offers a more like for like replacement for Thacker.

Wolstenholme has an interesting side note as he has seemed to be behind Whiteley at Tigers since both joined. Whiteley being released early by Bristol to join Tigers and Wolstenholme basically taking that place in their squad for next season. I thought Wolstenholme looked a decent player at Wasps to be fair.

With Uren going I'd presume they will still be in the market for a 9 as Randall's primary backup.

Not a rumour as such as it's been confirmed but Joe Hawkins to Exeter. And a few people saying Rob Baxter is a liar liar pants on fire.

They're really trying to sign a lot of up and coming Welsh players which will only benefit Wales and themselves. Starting to think a bit more RFU control would be nice!

I think Roots will also be leaving the Ospreys & heading to Exeter.

Roots to Exeter confirmed.

WoL saying Scarlets are front runners to sign Ioan Lloyd.

Baxter lied about Hawkins . A few Ospreys fans wanted Roots to stay and become WQ, I take that with a pinch of salt though. He's a decent player who can cover the back-row.

Lloyd would be a good fit at Scarlets as long as he has some bigger backs to work with.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not a rumour as such as it's been confirmed but Joe Hawkins to Exeter. And a few people saying Rob Baxter is a liar liar pants on fire.

They're really trying to sign a lot of up and coming Welsh players which will only benefit Wales and themselves. Starting to think a bit more RFU control would be nice!

They signed a Welsh international 12, a former England age grade flyhalf and a Kiwi utility backrow this afternoon. Given their injury issues at centre and the fact Joe Simmonds leaving the signings make a lot of sense.

Will Haydon-Wood returning to play for Chiefs is both good for England and Chiefs. Helps keep the pool of potential EQ flyhalfs up for Borthwick post world cup.

Will Haydon Wood is a very good player despite my dislike that he couldnt jump ship quick enough when the dollar signs came...

Geordie wrote:Will Haydon Wood is a very good player despite my dislike that he couldnt jump ship quick enough when the dollar signs came...

I'm sure he wishes he'd stayed now Geordie.

That being said a Haydon-Wood, Hawkins and Slade midfield should offer Chiefs a lot of options next season.

Aaron Morris of Quins is retiring due to injury.

Jordi Murphy is retiring at the end of the season.

Biyi Alo has left Racing

Also hoping Chiefs try Hawkins out at 13. Wales has many 12's but not enough 13's and he has the skill set to be the one we've been crying out for.