F1 2023 season

First topic message reminder :

Chinese Grand Prix is officially cancelled again.

Yeah, bad races happen. once a year at Monaco as a baseline

(and Baku's not great for on track action, it just usually has a bunch of safety cars etc to keep it interesting. You have to go single file through the start of the straight so it's virtually impossible to get overspeed in equally matched cars).

But really sometimes we get races at not great tracks where everyones in a normal position and just circulate.

My point is that the new "initiatives" made things worse.

Don't really see how they made any difference to that race being awful?

Been a lot of snoozefest races in recent years, particularly during the previous regulations, don't see why this one is that exceptional

Personally I never wanted to have the Sprint Races since when various ideas were touted such as reverse grids, sprint races and something else I forget. It dilutes the sport and disconnects it from its past. Apparently it is all about squeezing more and more money out of Formula One. Also there are too many races and the season is too long. This is just my opinion.

GSC wrote:Don't really see how they made any difference to that race being awful?

Been a lot of snoozefest races in recent years, particularly during the previous regulations, don't see why this one is that exceptional

Not the race, as such. I mean that there was more "content" but it was all awful to watch. None of the quali sessions were interesting and having a separate qualifying for the sprint was completely unnecessary.

Red Bull has a modified, fan designed, livery for Miami. Nothing good ever happens with special liveries…

I am certain that the costs associated with producing special liveries are not included in the cost cap. That it is "fan designed" is a surprise.

Sergio Perez takes pole in Miami. Fernando Alonso starts 2nd.

Max Verstappen starts 9th after he failed to set a time in Q3. His second run was lost when Charles LeClerc binned it.

1. Perez
2. Alonso
3. Sainz Jr
4. Magnussen
5. Gasly
6. Russell
7. LeClerc
8. Ocon
9. Verstappen
10. Bottas

Hamilton down in 13th, Russell has his number in qualifying so far in 2023.

I am hoping to see a new Championship Leader by the end of tomorrows race. McLaren and Mercedes just seem to be slow on this track.

Feels somewhat unfair that LeClerc bins it and still starts ahead of cars. Perhaps if you bring out the red flag in a quali session all your lap times are deleted

Issue still remains though that Charles just makes too many mistakes to ever beat a Lewis or Max type driver in similar cars

Risk vs reward. Inexperience vs Pushing too hard. Variability of Grip. Stability of Car. Margins of Error vs Performance Margin. Wind variation. Hidden mechanical issues. All factors that need to be considered. Difficult to compare drivers in different cars. Can compare team mates. Can compare same driver during his career trajectory. Interesting how different drivers develop different reputations during their career.

Eh Charles has been in F1 long enough to not be doing this by now. Might not be beating the RBs but these are potentially valuable points for the team against AM and Mercedes

LeClerc is trying to overdrive the car. Yes the pressure seems to tell at times. But in the junior formulas he wasn’t a big crasher. Maybe the lack of the real leadership in recent years at Ferrari has rubbed off on the Monégasque.

Sebastien Vettel is the biggest enigma.  Brilliant introduction into F1.  Torro Rosso, then promoted into Red Bull in first full season in F1, immediately started challenging.   Then four world titles for Red Bull breaking all age records.  One year relaxing then off to Ferrari.   It seems that Ferrari broke him as he began to get a reputation for making mistakes, more and more mistakes - until he was eventually sacked by Ferrari.  His record at Ferrari was very good but he never won a Championship with them finishing second a few times.  It was said by some that his racing style was never quite suitable for the balance of the car during the hybrid engine era.

Max is about to spa 22 the Poopie out of the field

Glad Checo got his time in a top team but this race is exhibit a in he's never gonna beat Max over a season

Max Verstappen wins the Miami GP from P9. Insane pace on the hard tyres saw the Dutchman ultimately pass Sergio Perez with relative ease.

Verstappen equals Sebastian Vettel's 38 race wins for Red Bull Racing.

Fernando Alonso another podium.

Russell
Sainz
Hamilton
LeClerc
Gasly
Ocon
Magnussen

Complete the points.

I am crushingly disappointed that Perez wasn't able to provide a challenge to Verstappen, despite him starting on pole and getting a good start, with Verstappen starting in P9. Verstappen will lead the drivers championship from round 1 to the end of the season.   Alonso was best of the rest. McLaren are dreadful.  I have given up hope at Williams - been the worst car for about 6 years.  They only finished ahead of Haas when Haas had two rookies including the Mazespin.

Compounds were too hard again, the hards could basically go flat out

GSC wrote:Compounds were too hard again, the hards could basically go flat out

F1s gotta stop these easy strategy one stop races, either bring softer tyres or bring back some other strategic elements like refuelling or something...especially if you're making DRS zones shorter which is making overtaking tougher in the midfield!

Another very boring race. While DRS has allowed more overtaking, watching cars breeze past on straights isn't very fun.

I wouldn't say the race was boring. You ignore Red Bull and there was action further down the grid.

Wouldn't call it a classic but reasonably entertaining

Jeff Navarro wrote:I wouldn't say the race was boring. You ignore Red Bull and there was action further down the grid.

I don't know. Maybe I'm just disillusioned with it all. This is the least competitive the front of the grid has been since I can remember.

Maybe the track wasn't the most interesting. There were maybe a couple of interesting overtakes during the race but I feel that the energy of the occasion is completely sucked out by none of us having any doubt that Max would stroll to the front from 9th and win comfortably.

Also, the whole driver introduction pageant before the race was the most cringeworthy thing I've seen in quite some time.

Mercedes won like 75% of the races between 2014 and 2020 and the racing was pretty terrible, let's not fall victim to recency bias.

Introduction thing needs some work but I don't mind the efforts to make GPs feel distinct. Miami certainly felt very American .

I've certainly fell out of love with the sport somewhat over the last year or so.....I tried to watch the Baku race but turned over after about half the race. It's just not getting me excited these days.

GSC wrote:Mercedes won like 75% of the races between 2014 and 2020 and the racing was pretty terrible, let's not fall victim to recency bias.

Introduction thing needs some work but I don't mind the efforts to make GPs feel distinct. Miami certainly felt very American .

Just some stats to add:

Between 2014-2016, Mercedes won 51/59 races 86%

It was only after the stupid token system was axed did we get a team on team battle in 2017-18.

TBH 2014, 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2021 all entertaining and I don't care 2014 and 2016 was Merc vs Merc.

2015, 2019, 2020 and 2022 were terrible. 2023 maybe will be worse of the lot...

Unsurprisingly Imola is off this weekend

Right decision, but I'll go cry into my pillow now...

GSC wrote:Unsurprisingly Imola is off this weekend

Having seen pictures of the area, could be repalced with a powerboat race.

Regarding the recent dominance of certain teams, it's always happened for as long as I've watched F1, other than that the cars used to be far less reliable, so every 3rd race or so the dominant car would fail to finish.
WOuld be interesting to do the winning % for say Mansell and Piquet at Williams or Prost + Lauda / Senna at McLaren, only for the races they finished - I think the dominance was frequently similar.

Ferrari working on a deal to land Lewis Hamilton. The Prancing Horse will offer a base salary of £40m guaranteed. This would be to partner Charles LeClerc.
Ferrari won’t stop LeClerc from joining Mercedes if he so desires.

Aston Martin and Honda join forces for 2026. Full factory team.

Another important step for their credibility as a potential top team I think. Lawrence isn't messing around

https://i.servimg.com/u/f64/20/21/32/89/5950e310.jpg

Mercedes has sidepods

Might be a painful weekend introducing it at Monaco but obviously wasn't the plan

From a pink mercedes to a black Aston Martin lol

Jeff Navarro wrote:Ferrari working on a deal to land Lewis Hamilton. The Prancing Horse will offer a base salary of £40m guaranteed. This would be to partner Charles LeClerc.
Ferrari won’t stop LeClerc from joining Mercedes if he so desires.

Surprise, surprise, none of this turns out to be true and Hamilton is on the verge of extending with Mercedes.

Pr4wn wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:Ferrari working on a deal to land Lewis Hamilton. The Prancing Horse will offer a base salary of £40m guaranteed. This would be to partner Charles LeClerc.
Ferrari won’t stop LeClerc from joining Mercedes if he so desires.

Surprise, surprise, none of this turns out to be true and Hamilton is on the verge of extending with Mercedes.

Yeah this turned out weird. Now LeClerc's new deal is also close.

Anyway deals aside, I think El Plan is where my money is this weekend.

I'll watch qualifying this weekend but probably won't watch the race unless it's raining. Monaco is by far the worst race in the calendar.

Hamilton bins in it FP3. Mercedes doesn’t seem any different despite adding side pods…

I wouldn't read much into performance at Monaco regardless.

That said there isnt much to suggest a design that's now 18 months behind the field is going to be overly competitive right away. This is going to be more of an R&D season for Mercedes

Perez crashes heavily in Q1. Verstappen's grip on another WDC tightens.

Perez will start last

Norris bins it in Q2

Guess Perez will take a brand new engine

Alonso could've really used Lance in Q3 to make an unfortunate error on his last run

Max Verstappen is inevitable