[solved]England Pre 2023 6Ns and Beyond.

First topic message reminder :

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/jan/06/eddie-jones-mistakes-with-england-why-i-got-the-sack-rugby-union

Interview with Jones about being sacked there. Some interesting stuff in amongst it.

Think Willis probably suffered from having to leave the camp early?

Shame for Willis but I like Ludlum, always brings energy to a pack. I would take Watson over Murley more pace and good in the air. Malins will cover the back three on the bench instead of the injured Daly. Chessum is fine player who has big future imo.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Hill at least you'd imagine be there. Jones made the mistake of dropping Willis before. We have Itoje and then Ribbans or Chessum at lock and Isiekwe probably at 6 then. Earl looks set for 7? Could be curry.

Could be Chessum at 6 instead of Isiekwe. Maybe go with the Sarries lock combo but more likely Ribbans and Itoje. Ribbans should offer a better platform for the tighthead side, though Saints scrum might not show it.

The back 5 Saints put out is usually quite good.  The problem is their front row, excepting Manny Iyogun, can sometimes look a bit like paper mache.    And that, in turn, makes the rest of the pack look not so good.

I think Ribbans and Itoje are probably England's best second row combo at the moment.

Telegraph claims it will be Curry at 7 and Ludlam at 6, with Ben Earl on the bench.

Ben Curry is set to start at openside flanker against Scotland on Saturday as Steve Borthwick aims for mobility and breakdown disruption in his first match as England head coach.

Telegraph Sport understands that Curry, the 24-year-old twin brother of Tom, who is nursing a hamstring injury, will win a second cap after Jack Willis was one of seven players to be released ahead of this weekend’s Calcutta Cup clash.

Lewis Ludlam, impressive at Murrayfield a year ago, is set to start at blindside flanker with Ben Earl providing cover from the bench. The promotion of Ben Curry, who has featured in a single Test match, against the USA in 2021, is a reward for his consistency in the Premiership for Sale Sharks.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2023/01/31/england-six-nations-squad-jonny-hill-jack-willis-axed-steve/

I'd be pretty satisfied with that to be fair. Personally I'd start Earl but I do rate Burry and as said on the match thread I think Ludlam could be a strong blindside.

If that is correct then looking at the reduced squad I'd say the forward selection seems to be falling into a place that I'd be happy with considering the absentees.

The locks alongside Itoje seeming to be the big question marks. I rate all of Chessum, Isiekwe and Ribbans so I've no strong favourites there. Ribbans being added as an injury replacement then retained ahead of Hill who was in the original squad is interesting though. I'd presume that means he's impressed.

Personally I'd go with Dombrandt over Simmonds but the fact the latter has been picked and then retained despite having signed for Montpellier so unavailable after the RWC suggests to me he must be rated by the new coaches. Unless there's a plan to change the rules around overseas based players that's a selection without much longevity in it.

Hill dropped is surprising (although he hasn't really delivered) as Ribbans as seemingly leapfrogged him having not been part of the original set-up. I really hope Ribbans gets a good run as he seems on paper like a perfect foil for Itoje.

Willis dropping out is no great shakes.....I find him more of a hype player that seems to get rated higher each time he's unavailable (which is most of the time to be honest), Ben Curry coming from seemingly about 10th in line must be a bit of a kick in the teeth mind.

I'd be happy with something like this:

4. Ribbans
5. Itoje
6. Chessum
7. Earl/Curry
8. Dombrandt

king_carlos wrote:Given the reign of silence Borthwick oversaw at Tigers I'd love to see his reaction to that Quins email 

Tigers released so little information under Borth that I frequently read queries online about whether the social media, comms and PR managaer Sam Williamson was still working at the club!

The only way it could have been less open at times was if they'd started refusing to announce a full 23 in favour of letting folk guess who was on the bench until the team rocked up.

Must have learnt from Dean Richards....

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Hill dropped is surprising (although he hasn't really delivered) as Ribbans as seemingly leapfrogged him having not been part of the original set-up. I really hope Ribbans gets a good run as he seems on paper like a perfect foil for Itoje.

Willis dropping out is no great shakes.....I find him more of a hype player that seems to get rated higher each time he's unavailable (which is most of the time to be honest), Ben Curry coming from seemingly about 10th in line must be a bit of a kick in the teeth mind.

I'd be happy with something like this:

4. Ribbans
5. Itoje
6. Chessum
7. Earl/Curry
8. Dombrandt

Or more highly every time he plays. Willis is class. I would prefer the rumours of Curry and Ludlam to the alternative of playing a lock on the flank but it does strike me as the reserves lining up against a very good breakdown team.

Sinckler says that England were going through the motions towards the end of Jones' tenure and just backed themselves putting it right on the pitch. The interview is behind a Torygraph paywall so not sure on the details but can't see that Jones would pick players not showing up in training; possibly that the tactics weren't even showing dividends between games?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Sinckler says that England were going through the motions towards the end of Jones' tenure and just backed themselves putting it right on the pitch. The interview is behind a Torygraph paywall so not sure on the details but can't see that Jones would pick players not showing up in training; possibly that the tactics weren't even showing dividends between games?

I read that as well and it surprised me. Our scrummaging has not been going well and he clearly stated that they were not training consistently in this area. Very odd.

"Candidly, there is an acknowledgment that England were not training consistently when it came to scrummaging. Sinckler admits that “because we’re such a talented group, most of the time, we were able to pull it out of hat on the weekend, and get very good results. In the last year, they've kind of slowly declined.”

with all the released players announced the papers are also saying we will have a back row of Curry at 7, Ludlam at 6 and Dombrandt at 8. Borthwick clearly going for mobility and hopefully he is able to still produce a decent line out? He could before when with England, but clearly a lot is hinging on Jamie George being fit. If he is not available then we are in trouble and Scotland should be looking to pressure our throwers early in the game.

And who replaces Hill is absolutely key. We need a stable scrum and therefore it should be Ribbans, but if he selects a lighter option then I really do fear for us. Lots of talk of set piece security and a restricted game plan, but if he picks a mobile pack then England will have to play at pace. With our new and disrupted back line and with how Scotland favour this type of game I really think he could be in danger of helping the Scots out too much. I am concerned.

Had a feeling Ludlum might be in against the Scots...

Well if it's Curry, Ludlam and Dombrandt I'll take that, Earl on bench to get on and run havoc. Hill no loss for me, glad he's not in 23. Ribbans in 2nd row with Itoje is fine.

Strange how all these tales of discontent trickle out now Jones has gone. Actually it's not strange, no player ever criticises a coach at the time. Let's hope something done sharpish then to sort scrum. However, seeing as Cockerill was there under Jones and is still there now doesn't speak highly of him if players were just going through motions etc.
BBC expect Smith Farrell 10 12 which is not my choice but hey ho.

No doubt all will be revealed tomorrow so we can stop guessing and then REALLY moan.

I think Borthwick can be forgiven if he goes 10 Smith , 12 Farrell due to all the injuries.

mountain man wrote:Well if it's Curry, Ludlam and Dombrandt I'll take that, Earl on bench to get on and run havoc. Hill no loss for me, glad he's not in 23. Ribbans in 2nd row with Itoje is fine.

Strange how all these tales of discontent trickle out now Jones has gone. Actually it's not strange, no player ever criticises a coach at the time. Let's hope something done sharpish then to sort scrum. However, seeing as Cockerill was there under Jones and is still there now doesn't speak highly of him if players were just going through motions etc.
BBC expect Smith Farrell 10 12 which is not my choice but hey ho.

No doubt all will be revealed tomorrow so we can stop guessing and then REALLY moan.

Not sure there's too much discontent from Sinckler if you read his other quotes on Jones, very complimentary. Aimed at Proudfoot perhaps, he came with a huge rep and delivered diddly squat.

But my point still stands, Sincks didn't say a word at the time as you would expect. Regardless of which coach any criticisim is aimed at all is sweetness light and content at the time.

Yeah true enough. Publically criticise a coach for not doing his job ain't gonna go down well! Interesting to see that the RFU have released a video on scrum training this week....perhaps they knew it was coming!

Geordie wrote:I think Borthwick can be forgiven if he goes 10 Smith , 12 Farrell due to all the injuries.

I would still prefer Manu and Marchant, but agree that his best laid plans have been disrupted so happy to be a little forgiving.

hugehandoff wrote:

Geordie wrote:I think Borthwick can be forgiven if he goes 10 Smith , 12 Farrell due to all the injuries.

I would still prefer Manu and Marchant, but agree that his best laid plans have been disrupted so happy to be a little forgiving.

Personally id have liked Kelly and Lawrence / Marchant but injuries have not been kind for this one.

The Mail seems to think it’s a Itoje-Chessum second row with Ludlam-Curry-Dombrandt back row

https://twitter.com/foychris/status/1620683175105105923?s=12

So potentially

4 Itoje
5 Chessum
6 Ludlum
7 B. Curry
8 Dombrandt

Wonder who would have picked that a few months ago...

Geordie wrote:So potentially

4 Itoje
5 Chessum
6 Ludlum
7 B. Curry
8 Dombrandt

Wonder who would have picked that a few months ago...

That would be a very different style of back 5 for England, but it could be very effective if it gels. It's a little light on outright power, but it's very quick for the size of the players, has several carrying options and plenty of breakdown ability (which will be important against Scotland in particular). The critical thing for me is whether Chessum can settle into being the setpiece lock. Itoje is a much better player when he has a reliable scrum and lineout operator alongside him, and I've not seen enough of Chessum to know whether he can play that role.

The other thing that strikes me is that there is a lot of rugby intelligence in that group - which I think is likely to be a recurrent theme in Borthwick and Evans's selections.

There's a good article in the Times about how Evans coaches that someone has reproduced here: Article on Comeallwithin - he's substituting structure with players focusing on recognising common patterns ("landmarks") that they can respond to in unison to take advantage of the moments when there's space. That should translate well to international rugby (and I'm going to nick it to use with the teams I coach...)

OHC as well apparently. The rumours that dribble out this close to matchday are often fairly accurate. Folk have seen training enough by that point that you barely even need to be an expert to see who's training together most the time.

1.Genge
2.George
3.Cole
4.Itoje
5.Chessum
6.Ludlam
7.Curry
8.Dombrandt

9.Youngs
10.Smith

11.OHC
12.Farrell
13.Tuilagi
14.Watson
15.Steward

16.Walker
17.Mako
18.Sinckler
19.Ribbans/Isiekwe
20.Earl
21.JvP
22.Lawrence/Marchant
23.Freeman/Malins

That'd be my guess from the bits and pieces getting reported.

I'd prefer a move away from Smith-Farrell but as others have noted losing Kelly and Slade were blows to that.

I like the look of the pack considering we're missing Lawes, Curry and LCD at once. Some will worry about Itoje and Chessum but I don't share that desire for one massive lock in the pack. France beat the Boks in the AIs with Woki and Flament at lock. Scrum woes are more correlated with unforced errors giving the opposition scrum put-ins these days. Hence why France have no scrum issues despite those sort of lock pairings and a smaller hooker. They kick more than any side in rugby and do so brilliantly which controls the number of errors they make and more importantly where on the pitch they might make them

Youngs Smith Farrell Manu. Sure way to world domination right there.

It's like deja vu all over again.

Thanks for the dislike carlos

hugehandoff wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Sinckler says that England were going through the motions towards the end of Jones' tenure and just backed themselves putting it right on the pitch. The interview is behind a Torygraph paywall so not sure on the details but can't see that Jones would pick players not showing up in training; possibly that the tactics weren't even showing dividends between games?

I read that as well and it surprised me. Our scrummaging has not been going well and he clearly stated that they were not training consistently in this area. Very odd.

"Candidly, there is an acknowledgment that England were not training consistently when it came to scrummaging. Sinckler admits that “because we’re such a talented group, most of the time, we were able to pull it out of hat on the weekend, and get very good results. In the last year, they've kind of slowly declined.”

I didn't take Sinckler to mean players hadn't put in the effort. It sounded more like the forwards didn't always get enpugh consistent scrummaging practice - presumably because the focus was elsewhere - but that hadn't shown up in performance, as the players were good enough to sort it out on the day. Until they didn't.

Quirke and Ford both starting for Sale this week.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Quirke and Ford both starting for Sale this week.

Good to have them fit again - it widens England's options though barring injury I can't see either playing a part in the 6N. Would expect Ford to be in the RWC squad, and Quirke to have a decent chance.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Quirke and Ford both starting for Sale this week.

And Arundel got on for London Irish last match.

mountain man wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Quirke and Ford both starting for Sale this week.

And Arundel got on for London Irish last match.

fabulous news all round for those 3

Poorfour wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Quirke and Ford both starting for Sale this week.

Good to have them fit again - it widens England's options though barring injury I can't see either playing a part in the 6N. Would expect Ford to be in the RWC squad, and Quirke to have a decent chance.

Good to see Ford back after so long out and more than a month later than first targeted. He's a player we could do with being in contention for the world cup, sadly not likely to be able to come in for the 6N after so long out.

Not sure why, but I didn't feel the slightest excitement or really much of anything when I saw the England squad announced.   It's hard to quantify, but maybe there is something about Farrell at 12, Cole and Youngs in the squad, which seems like steps back rather than steps forward.  Malins?  Pourquoi?  We have seen great gobs of mediocrity from him.  Even the likes of OHC seems wrong, though I am happy to see a young'un get a run with the big boys.  On the other hand, will Farrell pass the ball so it gets to the wings?   Hopefully Nick Evans can cure him (maybe by connecting a sensor to his collar like one of those dog invisible fences).  

Sorry boys, and I know Borthwick was limited to 5 changes in personnel, but somehow I expected more or better.  Who knows, maybe today, this month (ok, being honest. this millennium) is contrarian day... And a day I cannot be accused of being 'woke '

Hang over from the Jones days? Borthwick is the continuity candidate so it doesn't seem quite as 'fresh' as it could have been. That said new coaches and new areas of focus will bring something different and I'm more excited now than I've been since the return of sport following lockdown. This won't be the final iteration of the squad and there's clearly 3 players in Quirke, Arundell and Kelly who probably would be there if not for injuries impacting them up to the 6Ns. Throw those guys in there (and Borthwick realising he needs a different loosehead and Willis in there) and it's a lot more rosy.

Is Chessum seen by Tigers as a long term "tight head" lock..or at least...is he a strong scrummaging lock?

i noticed his incredibly large brother is captaining the U20s tonight...whats the crack with him...is he progressing as planned?

doctor_grey wrote:Not sure why, but I didn't feel the slightest excitement or really much of anything when I saw the England squad announced.   It's hard to quantify, but maybe there is something about Farrell at 12, Cole and Youngs in the squad, which seems like steps back rather than steps forward.  Malins?  Pourquoi?  We have seen great gobs of mediocrity from him.  Even the likes of OHC seems wrong, though I am happy to see a young'un get a run with the big boys.  On the other hand, will Farrell pass the ball so it gets to the wings?   Hopefully Nick Evans can cure him (maybe by connecting a sensor to his collar like one of those dog invisible fences).  

Sorry boys, and I know Borthwick was limited to 5 changes in personnel, but somehow I expected more or better.  Who knows, maybe today, this month (ok, being honest. this millennium) is contrarian day...  And a day I cannot be accused of being 'woke '

I'm of similar mind. Farrell not a 12 and surely Youngs and Cole best days long gone (although yes both been playing well for Tigers). Is this a RWC winning team? No is my thoughts.
Maybe new coaching set up will trigger Smith Farrell axis into life and we'll see a whole new England. Malins is a tricky one as he's been on fire for Sarries but even he says he's a 15 not wing.
I think we have to see how the first couple games go then judge. Hopefully then injured players be back and available and possibly likes of Arundel gets a look in as a X factor player, England need one or two and currently there isn't one in squad for me.

mountain man wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Not sure why, but I didn't feel the slightest excitement or really much of anything when I saw the England squad announced.   It's hard to quantify, but maybe there is something about Farrell at 12, Cole and Youngs in the squad, which seems like steps back rather than steps forward.  Malins?  Pourquoi?  We have seen great gobs of mediocrity from him.  Even the likes of OHC seems wrong, though I am happy to see a young'un get a run with the big boys.  On the other hand, will Farrell pass the ball so it gets to the wings?   Hopefully Nick Evans can cure him (maybe by connecting a sensor to his collar like one of those dog invisible fences).  

Sorry boys, and I know Borthwick was limited to 5 changes in personnel, but somehow I expected more or better.  Who knows, maybe today, this month (ok, being honest. this millennium) is contrarian day...  And a day I cannot be accused of being 'woke '

I'm of similar mind. Farrell not a 12 and surely Youngs and Cole best days long gone (although yes both been playing well for Tigers). Is this a RWC winning team? No is my thoughts.
Maybe new coaching set up will trigger Smith Farrell axis into life and we'll see a whole new England. Malins is a tricky one as he's been on fire for Sarries but even he says he's a 15 not wing.
I think we have to see how the first couple games go then judge. Hopefully then injured players be back and available and possibly likes of Arundel gets a look in as a X factor player, England need one or two and currently there isn't one in squad for me.

Do you want a coach that picks based on form or not? The number of tighthead options are really small with injuries so Borthwick picks the form EQ tighthead for the last two years and people moan he's to old. Pretty much the only other fit option is Heyes who is the 23 year old understudy to the guy you don't want picked based solely on age.

Youngs, again there's isn't a huge pool of options and fewer still that have any caps to their name. Mitchell was in the squad as well but his form has been patchy this season. Youngs is probably an experienced placeholder until Quirke is match fit again.

Malins well I wouldn't have picked him but Borthwick always has a plan. On more than one occasion Tigers fans were vexed by his selection but the odd calls tended to come good hence the adopted phrase of "In Borthwick we trust" or IBWT. I'm really interested to see what the plan is with Malins, he's fairly unique in that he's a winger (yeah, yeah fullback but Steward seems cemented in there so good luck) with a flyhalf background. Given Borthwick likes a roaming left winger and Evans is a canny attack coach I'm hoping that's going to lead to something creative in attack.

No X factor? That's harsh on OHC. Farrell wise I don't think him in the 12 shirt was the plan. I think Kelly in the 12 shirt was the plan and this is a temporary fix until Steve can get the midfield he wants. I have no idea if this is a world cup winning team yet as I have no clue how they're going to play bar not hanging onto the ball in their own half.

There is uncertainty as to whether Eng will beat Scotland so as for being RWC winning I'm pretty sure it's not although maybe all will be revealed this 6N.
OHC good strong wing but X factor? No again is my opinion but again we've all got 'em.
Agree on Cole as options are limited but my point stands, can't believe his best days are ahead. Likewise Youngs and and least at 9 there are options for England.

I'm just saying what I think, it's just an opinion and highly likely wrong on some points. No-one here is an expert, we'll all armchair coaches at times. If we all agreed it would be very boring.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Farrell. He has done many years at 12 for England and the Lions. I know I say this on a regular basis, but for all of his achievements and gifts I do wonder if he casts too long a shadow over England and the way we play.

mountain man wrote:There is uncertainty as to whether Eng will beat Scotland so as for being RWC winning I'm pretty sure it's not although maybe all will be revealed this 6N.
OHC good strong wing but X factor? No again is my opinion but again we've all got 'em.
Agree on Cole as options are limited but my point stands, can't believe his best days are ahead. Likewise Youngs and and least at 9 there are options for England.

I'm just saying what I think, it's just an opinion and highly likely wrong on some points. No-one here is an expert, we'll all armchair coaches at times. If we all agreed it would be very boring.

Agreed.

Here's an OHC highlights selection to get you excited

https://youtu.be/qR4Hi2t4pEY

I really can't call how this will go. We know under Eddie that the selection we have wouldn't work very well but what Borthwick will do is an unknown. Whether I slate it or celebrate it will depend on what we get on Saturday.

Screw the world cup, it's Scotland first.

Re picking on form, hmmm. No one really wants a total pick on club form and Borthwick hasn't done so here either. It's always going to be a little mish mash.

Every player doesnt have to have X-Factor though. Some need to be brutally good at their job.

You picked out OHC...does he attack like Arundel or Radwan...maybe not. Is he fast, big and powerful...and all round skillset...pretty much yes.

Ben Cohen wasnt an X-Factor player...but he was vital to that 2003 side...because he was very good in his role and teams found it hard to defend against.

Let Malins, Smith, Farrell (hes still a very good playmaker for Sarries) create the plays and magic.

True but that England team had a certain J Robinson who was the definition of an X factor player. Plus the team had a raft of truly world class players in Johnno, Dallagio, Hill, Wilkinson, Grrenwood.
My point is unless a team is all round fantastic with no discernable weakness(I'd say Ireland currently) then a decent team needs something that bit more. I'd say Scotland have it with Darcy Graham and Wales have LRZ, Italy Capuozzo etc.

Anyway, let's see what tomorrow brings. If Smith Farrell dominate game, OHC scores a solo hat-trick and Cole wins MoM then I'm more than happy to admit I was wrong.

doctor_grey wrote:Not sure why, but I didn't feel the slightest excitement or really much of anything when I saw the England squad announced.   It's hard to quantify, but maybe there is something about Farrell at 12, Cole and Youngs in the squad, which seems like steps back rather than steps forward.  Malins?  Pourquoi?  We have seen great gobs of mediocrity from him.  Even the likes of OHC seems wrong, though I am happy to see a young'un get a run with the big boys.  On the other hand, will Farrell pass the ball so it gets to the wings?   Hopefully Nick Evans can cure him (maybe by connecting a sensor to his collar like one of those dog invisible fences).  

Sorry boys, and I know Borthwick was limited to 5 changes in personnel, but somehow I expected more or better.  Who knows, maybe today, this month (ok, being honest. this millennium) is contrarian day...  And a day I cannot be accused of being 'woke '

As long as it's not like the one at the start of The Running Man.

mountain man wrote:True but that England team had a certain J Robinson who was the definition of an X factor player. Plus the team had a raft of truly world class players in Johnno, Dallagio, Hill, Wilkinson, Grrenwood.
My point is unless a team is all round fantastic with no discernable weakness(I'd say Ireland currently) then a decent team needs something that bit more. I'd say Scotland have it with Darcy Graham and Wales have LRZ, Italy Capuozzo etc.

Anyway, let's see what tomorrow brings. If Smith Farrell dominate game, OHC scores a solo hat-trick and Cole wins MoM then I'm more than happy to admit I was wrong.

I think Arundell will be the X factor going forward

lostinwales wrote:

mountain man wrote:True but that England team had a certain J Robinson who was the definition of an X factor player. Plus the team had a raft of truly world class players in Johnno, Dallagio, Hill, Wilkinson, Grrenwood.
My point is unless a team is all round fantastic with no discernable weakness(I'd say Ireland currently) then a decent team needs something that bit more. I'd say Scotland have it with Darcy Graham and Wales have LRZ, Italy Capuozzo etc.

Anyway, let's see what tomorrow brings. If Smith Farrell dominate game, OHC scores a solo hat-trick and Cole wins MoM then I'm more than happy to admit I was wrong.

I think Arundell will be the X factor going forward

Not sure abut Arundell yet. He is only 20 and has a ways to go. He does show incredible flashes, but I see him more as a post-RWC answer.

I think Arundell could break in as a winger by the RWC. If he stays fit I'd be more surprised if he didn't make the wider squad than if he did. On top of his attacking prowess he already has a decent passing and kicking game. He's strong in the tackle too. I'd say the only obvious area of improvement would be his positioning defensively and that's true of practically all back three players his age. The simple reality is that if you're that quick and powerful compared to your peers it allows guys to take liberties with your positioning defensively that you can't at senior level.

I think Arundell could break in as a winger by the RWC. If he stays fit I'd be more surprised if he didn't make the wider squad than if he did. On top of his attacking prowess he already has a decent passing and kicking game. He's strong in the tackle too. I'd say the only obvious area of improvement would be his positioning defensively and that's true of practically all back three players his age. The simple reality is that if you're that quick and powerful compared to your peers it allows guys to take liberties with your positioning defensively that you can't at senior level.

king_carlos wrote:I think Arundell could break in as a winger by the RWC. If he stays fit I'd be more surprised if he didn't make the wider squad than if he did. On top of his attacking prowess he already has a decent passing and kicking game. He's strong in the tackle too. I'd say the only obvious area of improvement would be his positioning defensively and that's true of practically all back three players his age. The simple reality is that if you're that quick and powerful compared to your peers it allows guys to take liberties with your positioning defensively that you can't at senior level.

I agree with all of that bar his passing, I've seen him throw some shockers. Those two off his left at the weekend being prime examples.

I think it'll benefit him to come into a more structured environment after the structural work has been done this 6N. Better chance for him to slot in and play then under Jones and the great open attacking philosophy thing.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

king_carlos wrote:I think Arundell could break in as a winger by the RWC. If he stays fit I'd be more surprised if he didn't make the wider squad than if he did. On top of his attacking prowess he already has a decent passing and kicking game. He's strong in the tackle too. I'd say the only obvious area of improvement would be his positioning defensively and that's true of practically all back three players his age. The simple reality is that if you're that quick and powerful compared to your peers it allows guys to take liberties with your positioning defensively that you can't at senior level.

I agree with all of that bar his passing, I've seen him throw some shockers. Those two off his left at the weekend being prime examples.

I think it'll benefit him to come into a more structured environment after the structural work has been done this 6N. Better chance for him to slot in and play then under Jones and the great open attacking philosophy thing.

Passing is certainly something he can always work on and you'd never describe him as a natural distributer, but he was stitched up a tiny bit on comms in that game.

First pass was poor, so fair enough. The second one was 15 yards off his left and it hit Cinti on the chest. He had to check a tiny bit, but if he catches that (which he really should have), it would never have been mentioned.

Edit - Although I do agree with you. Passing isn't something I'd be calling out as a particular strength of his when compared to other options in his position

I would have expected Cinti to catch the second pass to be fair. But I've seen Radwan, Freeman, Malins, Daly throw awful passes or die with the ball quite a lot. None of them have what Arundell has in terms of running abilty. For me a rare talent who will get better very quickly.