England's Winter of Cricket 2022/23

First topic message reminder :

The Lions are doing some Bazball v Sri Lanka A.

Sri Lanka A were bowled out for a paltry 136, Fisher with 5/34, and the Lions have already amassed 249/3 in 48 overs. Hameed, who's captain, 81 off 109, Lees 56 off 69, and Haines unbeaten with 62 from 72.

Soul Requiem wrote:

Jetty wrote:Anderson No 1 in the rankings, probably for a very short time as Ashwin is 2 points behind him.

The oldest bowler to top the rankings since 1936, remarkable really. I used to think Englands greatest ever bowler was up for debate but the past few years have cemented Anderson as not only a giant of English cricket but world cricket, he will not be forgotten or replaced.

I found that stat a bit odd, as the rankings didn't exist back then. So at some point they were produced retrospectively to cover all matches. I suppose that's possible as it's all just stats, but I do wonder why not just count them from when they started, which I think was around 25 years ago

Duty281 wrote:Anderson is astonishing. He's essentially having a career in reverse as he started off slowly and has got better with age.

Ahead of England's second test v NZ, Robinson is suffering from soreness in one knee, so he might be rested for this one, with Potts the like-for-like switch, or Stone to add pace to proceedings.

In the Mail it said Anderson, Broad and Robinson had soreness and stiffness. Yes they had just played a test, this is usual. Robinson didn't bowl on the last day because of stiffness. Who would be more successful of Potts or Stone?

If anyone is watching the PSL, James Vince is showing his T20 skills again with 50 off 20 balls.

he really is a mystery, to me he is up there with the best white ball batters that England have at this level but he just does not seem able to do this at international level when everything says he should be a great for England.

Jetty wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Anderson is astonishing. He's essentially having a career in reverse as he started off slowly and has got better with age.

Ahead of England's second test v NZ, Robinson is suffering from soreness in one knee, so he might be rested for this one, with Potts the like-for-like switch, or Stone to add pace to proceedings.

In the Mail it said Anderson, Broad and Robinson had soreness and stiffness. Yes they had just played a test, this is usual. Robinson didn't bowl on the last day because of stiffness. Who would be more successful of Potts or Stone?

I'd favour Stone because he adds a different dimension with his pace and the batting conditions are likely to be better with no floodlight element.

eirebilly_01 wrote:If anyone is watching the PSL, James Vince is showing his T20 skills again with 50 off 20 balls.

he really is a mystery, to me he is up there with the best white ball batters that England have at this level but he just does not seem able to do this at international level when everything says he should be a great for England.

When you look at his County stats, Vince is a decent batsman, but doesn't stand out from the others - it's more that he bats with a certain 'easy on the eye' style that gets people excited.

Of course Graeme Hick was one of the biggest disappointments for English cricket in my experience - he really did stand out at County level, but his Test career was never what was expected - wasn't abject, but over 10 years and 65 Tests he only averaged 31 compared with over 50 in first class games. There were two thoughts as to why this was - firstly, he was a great batsman at dispatching bad deliveries to the boundary, but not particularly good at pushing a good ball into a gap to rotate the strike - Test cricket he got fewer bad balls so less opportunity to score, especially as he couldn't be like Joe Root and just nick a single off anything. Secondly, he possibly wasn't the toughest guy mentally, with the perception being that he was a payer that responded better to an arm round the shoulder than a rollocking.
I wonder if Vince, to a lesser extent, has similar issues - too few bad balls and too many good ones to face at international level, and perhaps something of Hick or Gower's mindset?

Vince is good example of why it's important to look deeper that F-C average. If you just looked at that number, especially prior to his Test career when it was slightly higher than now, he looks like someone who should step up. There was a clear drop off when you went deeper into the numbers though with his division 2 average being terrific, division 1 significantly worse, England Lions worse again and finally the Test average not great at all.

He is a somewhat underrated white ball batter I think just playing in an extremely strong batting era for England in one day cricket. I don't think he's a significantly worse opening batter than Roy and Malan who seem to be heading that battle to partner YJB at the CWC. I'd say Roy, for his recent failings, is a better player of spin than Malan or Vince though which is probably why he's been persevered with.

Yes unfortunately Vince is probably more noted for aesthetically pleasing stroke-play than serious runs - at least at the top level. Perhaps not unlike Crawley to use a more modern comparison ?
It may be that he could have done a little better had he come into a Test team packed with top class bats instead of a side still trying to rebuild after losing their Strauss/Trott/Pietersen/Bell core - but we will never know. He had a reasonable number of chances , I think but never really suggested permanence ; though that 83 in Brisbane gave a glimpse of what might have been possible - shame he was run out in that one !

Bell , of course , arguably benefited by being surrounded by the likes of the established Vaughan Trescothick Strauss Flintoff when he started , hence was able to settle in a little more easily , without so much pressure to perform regularly from the off. (Pietersen too though I doubt it was much of a factor in his case - he was destined to shine in any company or situation).

As for white ball , I reckon Vince is probably good enough to hold down a spot in a successful England team : but as KC points out , he is competing with a lot of very good players with similar skills.

Depending on availability and form I think he may still have a (long) shot at a squad place for the next WC.

As to the second Test : England have announced they are going with the same XI (unless there are any last minute injury issues I guess). Robinson was a bit iffy apparently but is now confident he is OK to go - I wouldn't be risking him if there is any doubt, and I don't think England would.
NZ have Henry in as a welcome boost to their attack. Remains to be seen who gets the chop : Tickner , Kuggeleijn or even Wagner ? If it were up to me I would stick with the experience of the latter and give Tickner another go ; besides which even my spellchecker hates the "K" fellow    and in all seriousness he looks pretty hit or miss with both bat and ball.
I don't think England should assume NZ will just roll over and concede the series , by the way. They aren't the team they were a couple of years back ; but I reckon they will still be ready to put up a fight this week ,  and Stokes & co will need to be right on their game to ensure they do achieve the result they want and end that 15 year drought of series wins. Draw will do it , of course ; and it is thought conditions might not be over-helpful to the bowlers , with normal hours and a normal coloured ball this time : but Stokes apparently doesn't do draws so unless the weather kills the game I suspect we will see a result.

Duty281 wrote:Anderson is astonishing. He's essentially having a career in reverse as he started off slowly and has got better with age.

Ahead of England's second test v NZ, Robinson is suffering from soreness in one knee, so he might be rested for this one, with Potts the like-for-like switch, or Stone to add pace to proceedings.

Being reported by Sky that England have named an unchanged team. Assuming that's right, I'm pleased that Robinson is fit to go. His considerable value as a bowler has already been rightly emphasised on this thread. 

Just to also mention that his batting can and could be handy although it has too often let him and England down. He debuted with a fine and valuable 42 in summer 2021 against NZ (which remains his highest Test score) but followed it with a run of low scores until recently. He's made a 15 not out, a 29 and a 39 in his last two Tests; none an outstanding knock but each useful in its own context. Whist fully appreciating a bowler is primarily there to bowl, he aids (at least on paper) the team's batting and hopefully he can do that again now. A tail comprising Broad, Leach, Anderson and, as a replacement for Robinson, Potts or Stone would leave me a touch twitchy.

Unchanged? That's good. I remember those horrible days of 'rotation' under Silverwood.

According to Cricinfo, NZ's last selection choice is between Tickner and Wagner, with Kuggeredline set to retain his place.

England have an excellent record at this ground, only losing once in eleven tests. But getting 20 wickets might prove a little harder than the first time around.

Duty281 wrote:Unchanged? That's good. I remember those horrible days of 'rotation' under Silverwood.

According to Cricinfo, NZ's last selection choice is between Tickner and Wagner, with Kuggeredline set to retain his place.

England have an excellent record at this ground, only losing once in eleven tests. But getting 20 wickets might prove a little harder than the first time around.

Yeah I was a little bemused by the cricinfo "selection" for NZ. Not sure what they see in Mr K ? Pacier than the others , perhaps...but he's no Nortje ; and his FC stats as well as what I saw last week don't suggest he is offering huge wicket-taking potential or much control. Tickner probably doesn't get in the team when they are all fit : but he at least bowled a decent spell or two , and showed a lot of fight for an acknowledged rabbit with the bat. Maybe Wagner will get a rest : but whoever they pick I do not think England will be quaking in their boots...

I like the New England continuity of selection too. We may see a bit of "rotation" in the Ashes because of the number of games (shamefully) squeezed into such a brief span this year. But a lot more focus on picking a team to win the current match these days - which makes a lot more sense !

alfie wrote:...

As for white ball , I reckon Vince is probably good enough to hold down a spot in a successful England team : but as KC points out , he is competing with a lot of very good players with similar skills.

Depending on availability and form I think he may still have a (long) shot at a squad place for the next WC.

Vince seems to have spent most of his career as somewhere between first and third reserve batsman for the ODI side, and similarly he's never quite fixed a spot in the T20 side. While I'm not his biggest fan, I can see that at other times he'd likely have had a much more substantial England career, but he's commonly found there to be one or two better than him or that ft the style of the side better.

Anyway, happy t see England going with the same XI - shouldn't change a winning side any more than is essential.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq1rlA4bFPo

Interesting podcast (or viewing) with Rob Key here on the Wisden Cricket podcast - well worth it if you have a spare hour of listening

Pitch apparently very green, and there's forecast rain around for the first couple of days, so might be a bowl-first morning?

NZ do indeed choose to bowl first...but they've brought in Will Young to strengthen the batting, as well as Henry, for Kugg. and Ticker.

So the Kiwis have only three frontline bowlers, supplemented by the part-time bowling of Bracewell and Mitchell. Brave call. And one of those three is Wagner who got carted last time out.

Will the pitch be as bowling-friendly as it looks, or will it be typically deceptive?

A poor review from NZ - you have to be sure on a caught whereas you can be more speculative on LBWs because of the umpires call which teams don’t seem to get. The ball went an absolute mile though! If that carries on then it could be a quick game.

Interesting NZ change. Bowling looks a bit light ...guess the plan is to shoot England out cheaply on a green morning and then bat once

Won the toss so the plan is on track for now...

Matt Henry, Craig Overton, Siddle and Gregory are going to shoot some teams out on Taunton green tops this summer. Can’t wait.

And an early (though hardly unexpected) blow as Crawley edges Henry behind...

Dangerous session for England , this.

Really good stuff from Henry. How they missed this in the first test.

Maybe coming in at 21-2 is what is needed to get Root back into form. Back in his comfort zone.

Hmm. Pope gone too.

Like the way he came out prepared to use his feet and take the attack back to the bowlers ; but he was undone by some excellent bowling from Henry...

Root could be in trouble here too : no , umpire was right. And NZ lose a second review. The only thing that has gone wrong for them so far

Two very poor reviews. They only got suckered into that second one because it was Root.

Three down! What a grab by Bracewell. England in a bit of trouble, but the early evidence does indicate this will be a low-scorer.

Duty281 wrote:Really good stuff from Henry. How they missed this in the first test.

Indeed. Today is going to be much more of a test for England's bats. The snag for NZ might be if a partnership builds they will miss the extra bowler.

Ha ! Might not matter as Southee snags Duckett ! England in a lot of trouble now...

Henry averages 41 in Tests - but 26 in his last 6, including this one. He’s limited on flat decks, but that overall record doesn’t do him justice.

Brilliant grab from Bracewell and a new challenge for Brook in his Test career. The 58 all out should be safe though…

Duty281 wrote:NZ do indeed choose to bowl first...but they've brought in Will Young to strengthen the batting, as well as Henry, for Kugg. and Ticker.

So the Kiwis have only three frontline bowlers, supplemented by the part-time bowling of Bracewell and Mitchell. Brave call. And one of those three is Wagner who got carted last time out.

Will the pitch be as bowling-friendly as it looks, or will it be typically deceptive?

Hi Duty - I think NZ's management would try and make out that Bracewell is more than a part-timer. However, I'm not convinced and would question his place in their side.

I do like Wagner - he always gives it everything - but, as you suggest, he can be expensive. Having Wagner as the third and only other frontline seamer might not be enough for them.

Those were my thoughts anyway before Henry and Southee started going through England like a knife into butter alongside Bracewell catching swallows.

Bowling and catching has been terrific this morning...going to find out more about Brook here than we did in his run fest in Pakistan I think ! This is all more like facing Starc and Hazlewood on a lively pitch so it's "good practice" for the Ashes

Really need a stand here now as I'm not so sure these bowling conditions will persist later in the match ; so England will want to put something decent on the board.

Brook showing how he means to play , I see ...Bazball lives.

If Daryl Mitchell is bowling in the 11th over your bowling line up is wrong. Root did always struggle with CDG though - the (lack of) pace takes away his drop and runs I guess. NZ hoping for that effect.

guildfordbat wrote:

Duty281 wrote:NZ do indeed choose to bowl first...but they've brought in Will Young to strengthen the batting, as well as Henry, for Kugg. and Ticker.

So the Kiwis have only three frontline bowlers, supplemented by the part-time bowling of Bracewell and Mitchell. Brave call. And one of those three is Wagner who got carted last time out.

Will the pitch be as bowling-friendly as it looks, or will it be typically deceptive?

Hi Duty - I think NZ's management would try and make out that Bracewell is more than a part-timer. However, I'm not convinced and would question his place in their side.

I do like Wagner - he always gives it everything - but, as you suggest, he can be expensive. Having Wagner as the third and only other frontline seamer might not be enough for them.

Those were my thoughts anyway before Henry and Southee started going through England like a knife into butter alongside Bracewell catching swallows.

Yes, Bracewell bowled well over here last year, although NZ believed they could get more out of him than was the case, and this caused him to be over-bowled. 

I think with the start made they'll be regretting not picking anyone of Kugg/Tickner/Duffy.

Interesting to see Mitchell on before Wagner. Might be because of Root's possible issue v medium pace.

Crawley literally moved his guard to off stump and was still flirting pointlessly with balls miles wide - not even attacking them, just nothing shots. Bizarre

At this point Bairstow almost nailed on to come in for him in the summer

Given Wagner's strengths aren't with the new ball and it's nipping around so much using Mitchell early makes a bit of sense I guess.

Personally think the Root vs medium pace thing is a bit overegged (queue him getting out to Mitchell whilst I type... ). CdG got him twice I think, once it was nipping everywhere at Lords and the other England were batting second in a lost cause with a huge 1st innings defecit. Other examples of his medium pace weakness I've seen mentioned include Cam Green whose a giant that has topped 90mph!

Brooks aggression has just settled things down, in a sense anyway, after those three early poles. This situation is where the Bazball tactics are really interesting. A lot of the Bazball batting so far has been targetting the right scenario be that dead as anything pitches or dead as anything Dukes balls etc. Following that early storm will it push the field back and take initiative away from NZ or will it see a brief fightback before one is spooned up? An engrossing start that's for sure.

On the NZ sides makeup I think realistically their issues is that Bracewell and Kuggeleijn both look like 5th bowlers whilst Tickner didn't really look good enough to demand picking the 4th front line seamer as they would at full strength. Meanwhile the pitch just isn't going to suit Patel for instance. With Jamieson and Boult missing simultaneously their attack is brutally weakened sadly.

Wagner's actually dismissed Root 5 times in test cricket, so perhaps wise to use him as he comes on now.

Seems rather bizarre to have used Mitchell in the first hour of a test!

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Crawley literally moved his guard to off stump and was still flirting pointlessly with balls miles wide - not even attacking them, just nothing shots. Bizarre

He's a player who desperately needs a prolonged run out the spotlight, in consistently high class F-C cricket to learn his game under less pressure. Whether the schedule amongst other issues in the CC system can now provide that is a different question.

Crawley just isn’t it. I’d wager there won’t be many (any?) batters who average 31 in domestic cricket in 100 innings at the age of 25 and go on to average 45 in Tests. He could actually be an elite white ball batter, and he should just be allowed to do that.

Suppose one could mount an argument that NZ had a choice between including Wagner or an inexperienced bowler who might be more useful this morning but less so as the match goes on ? The extra batsman works as long as they can bowl England out for peanuts today. Bracewell is sort of needed for balance - batting and bowling - though I guess if you have Young he's less important for the former.
So they could have included a fourth seamer (Tickner ?) and left Williamson to bowl some filthy spin. Could : but I reckon they'll probably get more value out of Bracewell (already have for the catching !) as the match goes on. I'm not sure having Tickner bowl a few of the overs that Southee and Mitchell have this morning would have made much difference.

These two have batted really well. But NZ will feel if they can nab one of them before lunch they'll be right back on top.

None. Even the very few batters who's Test average exceeded their F-C record mostly come with important caveats. Such as Vaughan for instance being picked for Tests in his prime batting years rather than starting very young then carrying on too late. As such there's a good argument his F-C average would have improved a lot in that period had he not been scoring those runs in Tests. He also played almost all his Tests in a very high scoring period for Test cricket too.

In the right red ball system I actually think Crawley has so much talent. I just don't think it's as an opener and I don't think the structure (or in some instances quality) of the CC allow players such as that to get the consistent exposure to really high class bowling needed to fix those technical flaws. Being exposed over and over to Test bowlers as is those flaws just seem to be getting more and more pronounced though.

Watching Brook bat this winter has been a real joy - fantastic half century

101-3 at lunch - great fight back from 21-3. I’d say that’s an even session all told, big afternoon session upcoming

Fifty for Harry Brook

Arguably his best yet in terms of degree of difficulty ? Hasn't had complete control from the start ; but he's played with both positive intent and good judgement to turn the game back from near-disaster to an even position at lunch . Really encouraging for the summer ; and the partnership with Root (just as effective in a more understated - and Root-like - manner) also boosts confidence looking ahead

alfie wrote:So they could have included a fourth seamer (Tickner ?) and left Williamson to bowl some filthy spin.

I can barely remember Williamson bowling since his action being cited.

It's his left elbow that's given him so much grief but given he's looked a shadow of himself with the bat after those injuries I'd really doubt there's thoughts of adding workload with the ball.

On Crawley : unfortunately I think this series has just continued to highlight his deficiencies against class pace bowling. Assuming all our comments don't cue a second innings double century I suspect it will be back to the CC for him. Which surely would be best for him as well as the team : at 25 he is young enough to possibly come again - though I agree with KC it is unlikely to be as an opener.

Raises (again !) the old Opening Bat Problem. I have some thoughts but will wait until the series is over...

England will be the happier at the break. 

Brook's needed some fortune to survive, but his scoring shots are phenomenal to watch. 5 50+ scores in a row, a total of 7 50+ scores in just 9 innings, an outrageous beginning to his test career. Wagner targeted him with a few short balls, and I think we'll see a lot of that from Australia against him. Root playing a tidy anchor role at the other end. Looks as if batting will be easier in the afternoon, so if these two can get re-established at the crease, job's a good'un.

Brook seems like the real deal. He looks the best to have debuted for England since Root by a long way. I'm yet to notice an obvious weakness in his game. Obviously the very best bowlers will find one and he'll have to figure that out when it comes because that's Test cricket!

How cleanly he hits the ball is a joy to watch. Another very good innings, this time in tough conditions. Hopefully he can go big.

king_carlos wrote:

alfie wrote:So they could have included a fourth seamer (Tickner ?) and left Williamson to bowl some filthy spin.

I can barely remember Williamson bowling since his action being cited.

It's his left elbow that's given him so much grief but given he's looked a shadow of himself with the bat after those injuries I'd really doubt there's thoughts of adding workload with the ball.

No I doubt it too ! Was meant rather tongue in cheek actually.

Bit quieter early in this session. String of Southee maidens broken now as Mitchell comes on ( herein NZ's problem ...pressure off with the part timers) and the hundred partnership comes up

To be fair to Mitchell he's already induced a false shot from Brook that might well have brought a wicket. But runs are flowing again.

In truth , Brook has had very much his share of good luck today : but I think you might say he's earned it

Celebrating now with successive sixes off Mitchell ! Getting close to his more usual run-a-ball scoring rate...

134/3 after 35.

100 partnership up. Brook dominant but an important and more traditionally paced hand from Root. A really good partnership for England though which puts them on top but it's very much an in the balance, add two wickets to the score and reassess type situation.

Must say that looked very out to me live but Root survived on umpires call. Root isn't nearly his fluent best here but if he can hang around the opportunities to score will start to come against an attack with this balance.

The difference when Southee or Henry isn't bowling is significant. Makes you wonder how England would be faring had NZ opted to invite Boult back into the fold ?

Henry still testing. Nearly had Root then - lbw would have been out if the on field umpire had fancied it ; though it looked slightly leg side to me live so not surprised he didn't give it. At least NZ didn't lose their last review.

Root has been close to falling lbw more than once today (first ball , even ) : he does have a bit of a risky area where he moves across and gets pinned by one ducking back in. But largely has played well today...more like his old self ? Someone suggested early on a crisis might be what he needed to get him back in form : might be on the money

Good approach to Mitchell. Knock him out of the attack, then transfer the pressure to Bracewell, and it'll be a long afternoon for New Zealand.

Brook is perhaps my favourite cricketer of all time, and his career only started yesterday.

100+ partnership between Root and Brook and still going. 

In many ways, the situation when he arrived (2 down and then soon 3 down for not many at all) suited Root's sensible and mannered style of play as he's quietly but steadily gone about things.

As for Brook, well ... all situations seem to suit him atm! Looks to the manor born.

Meanwhile, NZ missing a bowler as thought earlier. Not surprising as they omitted the two debutant seamers from the previous Test and replaced them with only one plus a batter. Good though Southee and Henry are and they've shown that today, they can't bowl all day. The admirably willing Wagner would probably be prepared to but would cost his side a load of runs in the process. Mitchell & Bracewell should imo be no more than a fifth bowling combo for 10 overs tops in the day. They're certainly suffering from each of Boult, Jamieson and CdG being absent.

PS Alfie - hadn't seen your last post when I submitted this one. Similar comments, particularly about the circumstances being fitting for Root and a return to form.