Scotland v Ireland 6 Nations Championship Sunday 12th March 2023

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Scotland v Ireland
6 Nations Championship and Triple Crown Decider

BT Murrayfield Stadium
Edinburgh

Sunday 12th March
KO 15.00


So we approach the business end of the championship with a triple crown at stake and for Ireland a potential Grand Slam, which as the top side in the world, they must feel is within their grasp.

Ireland, more than any other side in the championship, have been Scotland's bogy side. They seem to have been inside our heads for quite some time now and with the WC coming up, if we are going to have any chance of progression from our group, it is a headspace that needs to be altered drastically. Scotland were good in their first two games but came up short against another of the big boys last time out, despite playing at times, some sublime rugby and at times dominating France. Ireland are going to be every bit as physical as France were and are playing with even more belief. They were given an unexpected;y hard game by Italy last time out and that will no doubt have removed any complacency from them. All the smart money will be on Ireland to win this one.

Scotland, to confound form and the bookies will have to match Ireland physically for the bulk of the game and to take their chances. They have shown this season that they can play well off little ball and have an extremely dangerous backline when they can get it moving. They are also playing at home and that may possibly lift them as well, along with a sense of what if, regarding the French match. The general consensus this season is that Scotland have been progressing, but this is another level, but a necessary one if they are going to be considered a side that can really compete with the best.

Ireland, by just about any objective reckoning at the moment, are the best!

I am not seeing an awful lot of changes for this one, maybe a Scotland team along these lines:


1. Schoeman
2. Turner
3. Fagerson Z
4. Gray J
5. Gray R
6. Dempsey
7. Ritchie
8. Fagerson M
9. White
10. Russell
11. DVDM
12. Tuipolotu
13. Jones
14. Steyn
15. Hogg

Subs

Sutherland
Ashman
Nel
Skinner
Christie
Price
Kinghorn
Redpath


I am assuming Gilchrist will be suspended, though the mystery of his disciplinary continues to perplex

Sutherland has had 2 good run outs for Ulster in the past two weeks and looks fit and hungry

Ashman deserves his chance and I don't want another overthrow from FB in the last 5 mins

Christie has been consistently excellent for Sarries these past few weeks and Watson still looks flat to me. He deserves his chance.

Redpath might bring some creativity off the bench, out defence has stood up well without Harris.

Ireland have to lose a match sometime. If we are to drop a match this six nations I hope it is the Scottish game. It’s great seeing Scotland playing rugby with such flair and it’s been too long since they won three six nations matches. Having said that Ireland have won so few grand slams I’d rather see Scotland beat everyone else instead!

Although Ireland have won 3 in a row, they have not looked that great, except in patches against France, to be honest.

Scotland can run at Ireland from every angle and that is bound to trouble Ireland as their defense in open play is not that great.

I am very much looking forward to this one.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/64879804

Great article on Hogg's 100th. There's no doubt he's probably been one of our best players of the 6N era (I know that's not a high bar!)

Hogg has not only been one of Scotland's best 6N players but one of the better 6N players period.

Any player that gets 100 caps is incredibly good.

eirebilly_01 wrote:Although Ireland have won 3 in a row, they have not looked that great, except in patches against France, to be honest.

Scotland can run at Ireland from every angle and that is bound to trouble Ireland as their defense in open play is not that great.

I am very much looking forward to this one.

I think that is a bit harsh. We put the Welsh game to bed in the 1st 20min, dominated France, and beat a good Italian team with a lot of changes on our side.
I think we certainly have areas to improve on, but we are playing some great stuff. You don't go for 3 for 3 without playing well.

We need to tighten up our discipline, get our midfield defense sorted and improve our red zone efficiency. Other than that, I think we are doing quite well. Great kicking, ruck speed, our attack looks slick without being too complicated. We are scoring tries from outside the 22 (I count 5 already), when was Ireland last doing that?

I think we are still building and there is more to come, and I think we are holding a few things back for the WC. The 5m taps I think is one example, I reckon we have a bunch of Leinster type moves in the back pocket.

2 changes to the starting scotland side:

Jonny Gray in for Gilchrist

backrow of Fagerson, Ritchie and Dempsey (Ritchie to openside, dont know the order of the other 2)

Bench is 5-3 split, skinner is the lock sub, watson is backrow sub, backs are price, blairhorn and harris

Edit: Cummings is the lock on the bench, not skinner

the-goon2 wrote:

eirebilly_01 wrote:Although Ireland have won 3 in a row, they have not looked that great, except in patches against France, to be honest.

Scotland can run at Ireland from every angle and that is bound to trouble Ireland as their defense in open play is not that great.

I am very much looking forward to this one.

I think that is a bit harsh. We put the Welsh game to bed in the 1st 20min, dominated France, and beat a good Italian team with a lot of changes on our side.
I think we certainly have areas to improve on, but we are playing some great stuff. You don't go for 3 for 3 without playing well.

We need to tighten up our discipline, get our midfield defense sorted and improve our red zone efficiency. Other than that, I think we are doing quite well. Great kicking, ruck speed, our attack looks slick without being too complicated. We are scoring tries from outside the 22 (I count 5 already), when was Ireland last doing that?

I think we are still building and there is more to come, and I think we are holding a few things back for the WC. The 5m taps I think is one example, I reckon we have a bunch of Leinster type moves in the back pocket.

I thought our win v France was one of our greatest performances ever in my lifetime. we were a bit up and down in the other games but cant complain with three wins from three. Plenty to work on though.

Tramptastic wrote:2 changes to the starting scotland side:

Jonny Gray in for Gilchrist

backrow of Fagerson, Ritchie and Dempsey (Ritchie to openside, dont know the order of the other 2)

Bench is 5-3 split, skinner is the lock sub, watson is backrow sub, backs are price, blairhorn and harris

Sounds good to me. I’m sure Crosbie will feel a bit bummed at being dropped again but as Gee said it’s that level of performance where you have to show up and really make the jersey your own. Ben white is a great example of doing just that. Now Dempsey may well go and do the same with his opportunity.

Roll on Sunday!

Ireland team according to the Indo and Irish Times
Possible Ireland team to play Scotland on Sunday – H Keenan; M Hansen, G Ringrose, B Aki, J Lowe; J Sexton (capt), J Gibson-Park; A Porter, D Sheehan, T Furlong; I Henderson, J Ryan; P O’Mahony, J van der Flier, C Doris. Reps: R Kelleher, D Kilcoyne, T O’Toole, R Baird, J Conan, C Murray, R Byrne, R Henshaw.

Go on Scotland, hope Dempsey floors that Sexton guy.

mikey_dragon wrote:Go on Scotland, hope Dempsey floors that Sexton guy.

I've heard good things about this Sexton, apparently he's one to watch for the future

Tramptastic wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Go on Scotland, hope Dempsey floors that Sexton guy.

I've heard good things about this Sexton, apparently he's one to watch for the future

I heard he's a bollix.

Two fully loaded, form sides with attacking flair in bucket loads. This should be a real corker and a high scoring one at that. Scotland are Ireland's biggest challenge so far in this 6 nations. Scotland have showed better form than Ireland but now with a fully loaded Irish panel hopefully Farrell will ensure that the side will up the anti and add a few percent to the performance. We've not fully fired all tournament and finishing with 2 very challenging games ahead it's time to show what this Leins......I mean Irish side can actually do.

IRELAND team to play Scotland – Round 4, 2023 Guinness Six Nations Championships,
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh, Sunday 12th March, 2023, KO 15.00 (IST):
15. Hugo Keenan (Leinster/UCD) 28 caps
14. Mack Hansen (Connacht/Corinthians) 12 caps
13. Garry Ringrose (Leinster/UCD) 49 caps
12. Bundee Aki (Connacht/Galwegians) 44 caps
11. James Lowe (Leinster) 18 caps
10. Johnny Sexton (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 111 caps (c)
9. Conor Murray (Munster/Garryowen) 103 caps

1. Andrew Porter (Leinster/UCD) 51 caps
2. Dan Sheehan (Leinster/Lansdowne) 15 caps
3. Tadhg Furlong (Leinster/Clontarf) 63 caps
4. Iain Henderson (Ulster/Academy) 71 caps
5. James Ryan (Leinster/UCD) 51 caps
6. Peter O’Mahony (Munster/Cork Constitution) 92 caps
7. Josh van der Flier (Leinster/UCD) 48 caps
8. Caelan Doris (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 26 caps

Replacements:

16. Ronan Kelleher (Leinster/Lansdowne) 20 caps
17. Cian Healy (Leinster/Clontarf) 121 caps
18. Tom O’Toole (Ulster/Ballynahinch) 7 caps
19. Ryan Baird (Leinster/Dublin University) 9 caps
20. Jack Conan (Leinster/Old Belvedere) 36 caps
21. Jamison Gibson Park (Leinster) 23 caps
22. Ross Byrne (Leinster/UCD) 17 caps
23. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster/Buccaneers) 61 caps

No McCloskey, is he injured?

Collapse2005 wrote:No McCloskey, is he injured?

Carrying a knock I believe. Shame. I would like to have seen him start.

Scotland team as expected other than Ali price shouldn’t be anywhere near the match squad. Horne the rapid instead. Fraser Brown shouldn’t be there either, Ashman is one not only for the future, but a better all round player.

Tenner says brown gives away a stupid late penalty to either cost the game or a chance of winning it.

Looks like I was wrong about Ritchie etc, I cannot understand the rationale behind moving two players out of position rather than just playing Watson, Crosbie, Christie, Darge (although not sure he's fit enough)

Collapse2005 wrote:IRELAND team to play Scotland – Round 4, 2023 Guinness Six Nations Championships,
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh, Sunday 12th March, 2023, KO 15.00 (IST):
15. Hugo Keenan (Leinster/UCD) 28 caps
14. Mack Hansen (Connacht/Corinthians) 12 caps
13. Garry Ringrose (Leinster/UCD) 49 caps
12. Bundee Aki (Connacht/Galwegians) 44 caps
11. James Lowe (Leinster) 18 caps
10. Johnny Sexton (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 111 caps (c)
9. Conor Murray (Munster/Garryowen) 103 caps

1. Andrew Porter (Leinster/UCD) 51 caps
2. Dan Sheehan (Leinster/Lansdowne) 15 caps
3. Tadhg Furlong (Leinster/Clontarf) 63 caps
4. Iain Henderson (Ulster/Academy) 71 caps
5. James Ryan (Leinster/UCD) 51 caps
6. Peter O’Mahony (Munster/Cork Constitution) 92 caps
7. Josh van der Flier (Leinster/UCD) 48 caps
8. Caelan Doris (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 26 caps

Replacements:

16. Ronan Kelleher (Leinster/Lansdowne) 20 caps
17. Cian Healy (Leinster/Clontarf) 121 caps
18. Tom O’Toole (Ulster/Ballynahinch) 7 caps
19. Ryan Baird (Leinster/Dublin University) 9 caps
20. Jack Conan (Leinster/Old Belvedere) 36 caps
21. Jamison Gibson Park (Leinster) 23 caps
22. Ross Byrne (Leinster/UCD) 17 caps
23. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster/Buccaneers) 61 caps

Not a hint of building depth or getting minutes into the wider squad. This is a selection with a single goal.

https://i.servimg.com/u/f18/19/86/73/89/ffecc110.png

Hope its one of these days for Scotland

EWT Spoons wrote:Looks like I was wrong about Ritchie etc, I cannot understand the rationale behind moving two players out of position rather than just playing Watson, Crosbie, Christie, Darge (although not sure he's fit enough)

Ach ive nae problem with Ritchie playing 7, he's good over the ball in the jackal and a good link man. He was an openside when he came through but was kept out of the 7 shirt by Watson. It's like the years where you picked either Barclay or Rennie to play 7 - both good, Rennie better in the jackal, Barclay a slightly better link man

Collapse2005 wrote:https://i.servimg.com/u/f18/19/86/73/89/ffecc110.png

Hope its one of these days for Scotland

Hope not

Tramptastic wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:Looks like I was wrong about Ritchie etc, I cannot understand the rationale behind moving two players out of position rather than just playing Watson, Crosbie, Christie, Darge (although not sure he's fit enough)

Ach ive nae problem with Ritchie playing 7, he's good over the ball in the jackal and a good link man. He was an openside when he came through but was kept out of the 7 shirt by Watson. It's like the years where you picked either Barclay or Rennie to play 7 - both good, Rennie better in the jackal, Barclay a slightly better link man

He was, but when was the last time he actually played 7? I agree in principle that he's more than capable of playing there and it's not like he's moving to 15, but it's seemingly unnecessary disruption, even more so for Fagerson, who has been superb this 6n at 8.

What is happening :O, 4 games in very minimal changes in then all so unless there are wholesale changes next week then this will be the only 6N where we have had a settled squad all the way through the 6N right?

Ireland destroying the Scotland under 20s.

Collapse2005 wrote:Ireland destroying the Scotland under 20s.

For us it’s absolutely rotten. I’ve no idea why we’re so utter dugshite at this level. We have been for a while.

Is it a structure thing? Are teams not letting boys away to play international? Have swathes of young lads just stopped playing as there’s so many South Africans being dropped into the men’s team?

tigertattie wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Ireland destroying the Scotland under 20s.

For us it’s absolutely rotten. I’ve no idea why we’re so utter dugshite at this level. We have been for a while.

Is it a structure thing? Are teams not letting boys away to play international? Have swathes of young lads just stopped playing as there’s so many South Africans being dropped into the men’s team?

It hasn't been a disastrous campaign, has it? Competitive against England, who are always good at this level and beat Wales. I would say the last game against Italy will be a defining one for this side.

tigertattie wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Ireland destroying the Scotland under 20s.

For us it’s absolutely rotten. I’ve no idea why we’re so utter dugshite at this level. We have been for a while.

Is it a structure thing? Are teams not letting boys away to play international? Have swathes of young lads just stopped playing as there’s so many South Africans being dropped into the men’s team?

The more cynically-minded would suggest that the new wave of Scottish stars are still playing rugby at school level in SA.

89-7 Ireland

Grim

RDW wrote:89-7 Ireland

Grim

Positives.. At least they didn’t pass a century.

Yeah very bad for the Scots, must have felt depressing for Townsend in the crowd. We had our terrible dark times in the 90s, I guess the Scots will turn things around at some stage.

Was at the game. Scotland were 14 nil down with about 10 minutes played. Heads were down already. Literally the only noteworthy thing I remember from a Scottish viewpoint was someone put in a huge dominant tackle. Sadly this was with the clock on 77 minutes and 30 seconds.
If this is the future of Scottish rugby then Sean Lineen better hop on a plane and recruit another dozen young ANZACS or we will be doomed, doomed I tell you.

I hate Sunday games. Just saying

Someone, I think it was on here but I can't be bothered wading through the dross that litters these boards, said that man for man the Ireland team was better than the Scotland side.

Scotland: 15 Stuart Hogg, 14 Kyle Steyn, 13 Huw Jones, 12 Sione Tuipulotu, 11 Duhan van der Merwe, 10 Finn Russell, 9 Ben White; 1 Pierre Schoeman, 2 George Turner, 3 Zander Fagerson, 4 Richie Gray, 5 Jonny Gray, 6 Matt Fagerson, 7 Jamie Ritchie, 8 Jack Dempsey

Replacements: 16 Fraser Brown, 17 Jamie Bhatti, 18 Simon Berghan, 19 Scott Cummings, 20 Hamish Watson, 21 Ali Price, 22 Blair Kinghorn, 23 Chris Harris

Ireland: 15 Hugo Keenan, 14 Mack Hansen, 13 Garry Ringrose, 12 Bundee Aki, 11 James Lowe, 10 Johnny Sexton, 9 Conor Murray; 1 Andrew Porter, 2 Dan Sheehan, 3 Tadhg Furlong, 4 Iain Henderson, 5 James Ryan, 6 Peter O'Mahony, 7 Josh van der Flier, 8 Caelan Doris.

Replacements: 16 Ronan Kelleher, 17 Cian Healy, 18 Tom O'Toole, 19 Ryan Baird, 20 Jack Conan, 21 Jamison Gibson-Park, 22 Ross Byrne, 23 Robbie Henshaw

Well, that would be 100% correct. Or not. Personally I think it's an ecumenical matter, Dougal.

Back three; Hansen-Keenan-Lowe are deadly. Fast, direct and know the way to the line. Seaman- Hogg-Dooey, Seaman is a 13 playing wing. I think he is defensively sound, although can play too narrow at times, and like NoMaits always seems to make the sensible, safe choice. Hogg...well you don't get 100 caps without being special. Have we seen him at his best recently? That would be an ecumenical matter, too. Dooey is a one man wrecking ball if he gets the ball in the right places. Paris obviously is not one of those places. Advantage Ireland, in attack. Scotland in defence/counterattack.

centres Aki-Ringrose or Shona-Not A Pony? Both 12's tackle like bulldozers being driven by blokes who've just been told that their boss has gone bankrupt and taken the wages to Benidorm. However, I think that Shone distributes the ball better: as in cuter, more devious. When Ringrose came on the scene I thought he would be the new BOD. He isn't but he is a very, very good attacking 13. Shug Jones, on the other hand, was called a show pony by many on the east coast of Scotland. He isn't. He is as good an attacker as Ringrose and has developed the rest of his game. Advantage? Who cares? It'll be some contest.

Half backs  Murray-Sextoy have 983 caps and a combined age of 275 years. Like Hogg the caps are well deserved. If Sextoy gets time and space he can destroy any defence. Boxer, Mbawza and Fagerson minor will be looking to get in his face early on and stay there. I can't wait for Murray's first box kick and the appeals to the ref that Ickle Jonny has targeted his standing leg (again).   White-Dancer , easily the best 10 in the history of the world and a nippy wee 9 who knows that the quicker he gets the ball to Dancer the better Dancer...well, dances. Two excellent pairings; whoever gets better ball at the breakdown will probably run the game.

Front rows.  Porter- Sheehan- Furlong are a solid, nasty, impressive front row. The only hope, really, is that Furlong hasn't played since December. 99 days in fact. But props don't really lose explosive pace when sitting matches out do they?
Shooey-Turner-Ragnar The Pretty. Probably have the edge in the loose. Ragnar can be a penalty magnet at scrum time if the ref takes against him early. I think Porter is smart enough to exploit that. Set piece advantage Ireland.

Second Row Henderson-Ryan against the Grays I don't know where to start there. James Ryan is a cracking player. Big Ritchie has been awesome this season. Advantage? Us, the people lucky enough to see this.

Back rows Mr Nasty-Doris-V D Flier. Doris has been the most effective back row of the tournament. Lots of carries, yards made and aggressive defence. Van Der Flier has been like a young Hamish Watson. O'Mahony is the one you always hate to see line up against you and love to bits if he's in your team. An irritating, abrasive, grain of sand under the world's foreskin. I wish he was Scottish.
Fagerson-Boxer-Mbawza probably won't contest too many rucks but will look to hunt down Sexton. Actually they could give him a 25 metre start and still overtake him most times. Mr Nasty v Mbawza is my bet for the first handbags of the day. (1minute 14 seconds after before the kick off).

Predictions? All the pressure is on Ireland. Farrell has nmade 6 changes and brought in some old heads. I think it was to stop the Grand Slam talk getting out of proportion. Scotland have been making all the right noises about being disappointed about losong a game they could have won in Paris. I think Ireland might edge it. But if they go behind early then Scotland could win. Bearing in mind that Ireland have been making a habit of scoring a try within the first 10 minutes of matches recently, I think Scotland may find themselves playing Parisien Catch Up again.

Yes. Ireland to win. We're doomed.

Lovely write up Jimbo.
If we choose not to give Ireland a 19 point lead then we might have a chance.
Hopefully Hogg won't go all wobbly at the knees as he becomes a Scottish centurion. If he has on off orange day then we are in deep doo doo
However if he has his hest ultrabrite day then we have an outside chance
Have to hope we can keep it close and then unleash the hardest working man in rugby to finish off the job with his electric pace and stunning handling. Or maybe the game will be gone by then.
Just hope Toonie didn't make them all watch the U20 game for inspiration!

To be fair the Scots do stack up well man for man v Ireland. I think the Ireland set up is just a bit further down the road in terms of culture and professionalism.

Collapse2005 wrote:To be fair the Scots do stack up well man for man v Ireland. I think the Ireland set up is just a bit further down the road in terms of culture and professionalism.

Also a few standout Ireland players who are definitely in the debate for being 'world class' that make this a special side IMO. Doris is an incredible player. Ringrose superb. JvdF. Furlong. Porter. I'd add Bierne and Henshaw to that when fully fit.

A bit part of their strength is the Irish system, both club and Farrell's, as you say that is getting the most from individuals as well as the unit. The improvements someone such as Lowe has shown in defence and kicking for instance is brilliant coaching. Porter's remarkable shift to LH that can only work with club and country working together. Provincial sides being able to rest internationals a lot. Etc.

But I do think this Ireland side also has some standout individuals who deserve a lot of praise for taking them to the next level we've seen recently.

It's game day

Just to say I am 100% behind gary Lineker's right to free speech. I am also 100% behind anyone who calls out this government on their deliberate use of inflammatory, hate filled nonsense in order to mask their incompetence/corruption/utter arsiness...
However, if the Beeb do not show today's match....

I'll be voting Tory from now on.

jimbopip wrote:It's game day

Just to say I am 100% behind gary Lineker's right to free speech. I am also 100% behind anyone who calls out this government on their deliberate use of inflammatory, hate filled nonsense in order to mask their incompetence/corruption/utter arsiness...
However, if the Beeb do not show today's match....

I'll be voting Tory from now on.

Is this on the cards?

Cakey, it's a mad, mad world we live in.
Blarehorn has been ...well just like a real international rugby player this 6 Nations. The wise sages on here now want to start a Toonie Must Stay campaign. Wales won a match yesterday. Ellis Genge sounded intelligible in his post match interview. Jeremy Hunt is getting ready to announce cuts to Universal Credit as a way of solving our economic woes.
Anything could happen between now and teatime.

Fecc! Scotland could even win

jimbopip wrote:

Fecc! Scotland could even win

Let's not go that far

I don't like all this talk of 'best Scotland team since 99' etc as it's shaping up for yet another anticlimax!

I actually think we've been on better form in the past too, particularly around 2017-2018 when we won 12 in a row at home. And as much as I'm delighted with the two wins we have, the France game has shown England are a complete basket case right now and we caught Wales at the right time.

We'll likely finish 3rd and deservedly so, but there's a huge gulf to France and particularly Ireland now.

I hope I'm proven wrong!

RDW wrote:I don't like all this talk of 'best Scotland team since 99' etc as it's shaping up for yet another anticlimax!

I actually think we've been on better form in the past too, particularly around 2017-2018 when we won 12 in a row at home. And as much as I'm delighted with the two wins we have, the France game has shown England are a complete basket case right now and we caught Wales at the right time.

We'll likely finish 3rd and deservedly so, but there's a huge gulf to France and particularly Ireland now.

I hope I'm proven wrong!

You're wrong again Flounder. The worst we can do this afternoon is finish second.

Even Engurlund finished second yesterday and they were god awful.

I've had a challenging thought (and not like tattie does when trying to do the 8 times table) - imagine if we do somehow get a BP win and deny Ireland anything. The Scottish nation will find themselves in a deeply uncomfortable scenario of having to support Gatland's Wales and England next weekend!  

I’d love to cheer on England and Wales next weekend if it means a maiden 6N title.

A 6-3 win today would be fantastic though. The triple crown and no title would still be a huge step forward.

On today I’d just like to see Duhan get on the ball more and the same accuracy we had against England.

Well good luck everyone, lets hope for a good clean match and may the best team win (as long as that's Ireland)

Interesting not all players sing anthem but Andy Farrell did. Can't think of any other foreign coach as it were who sings team anthem. Irrelevant but just something which struck me.

mountain man wrote:Interesting not all players sing anthem but Andy Farrell did. Can't think of any other foreign coach as it were who sings team anthem. Irrelevant but just something which struck me.

Its not really an anthem for me so I understand why some don't sing it.

I like Irelands call, if nothing else its a better song than amhran na bfiann

Wtf is going on with lineouts