England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes

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Well done to Scott Boland, a very tidy job and added precious runs.

Another fantastic day in a fantastic test in a fantastic rivalry in a fantastic sport. Fantastic.

And just as the pattern has been throughout, when one team looked to be taking control, it just got yanked back. And it was Broad yanking it back with a brilliant spell. Labuschagne is the new Warner, as far as Broad's concerned.

174 to get. Seven wickets left. Still favouring Australia, but it'll be interesting to see how the bowling conditions are after the expected rain tomorrow. If they're anything close to what England's top order had to face yesterday, it could be curtains for Australia, but I'm not anticipating it to be that bad.

Will almost certainly be a delayed start. Hopefully the BBC's more pessimistic forecast doesn't come to fruition.

It'll probably go to the wire, that's the way the whole test has been shaping up. Might even be a tied test...

Afro wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Afro wrote:Rehan Ahmed called in to the squad for T2 btw

Better him than Jacks, at least, which was the speculation yesterday.

Despite Jacks' audition for Bazball last night, I definitely agree. He looks to be the future front line spinner, so giving him the odd test when the current first choice is injured (or being the second spinner in the sub-continent) seems logical for his development.

alfie wrote:

Afro wrote:Rehan Ahmed called in to the squad for T2 btw

Olly will be ecstatic !  

Not sure he will play but they are certainly contemplating using him at some time during the series. Want to keep him round the squad - good idea I think

I also doubt that he'll play although some Foakes supporters are licking their lips at the thought of Bairstow keeping to a young leggie still learning his game!

alfie wrote:OK have it your way , old chap . Opinions are free ...

You are going to keep watching , though ?

Of course. It's the greatest game in the world.

Duty281 wrote:

alfie wrote:OK have it your way , old chap . Opinions are free ...

You are going to keep watching , though ?

Of course. It's the greatest game in the world.

That's good. I would really miss having to correct all your mistakes

In reply to Carlos’ post, this hits the nail on the head.

For me personally, i would rather lose playing the current way than win playing the old way.

Yes i want to win, but not at the cost of ejoying it.

Ultimately, I watch it not for the result. Its not about results, but to enjoycricket, otherwise whats the point. I’d just be pointlessly watching 22 people throwing a ball around with a few bits of wood, whilst bored!!

alfie wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

alfie wrote:OK have it your way , old chap . Opinions are free ...

You are going to keep watching , though ?

Of course. It's the greatest game in the world.

That's good.  I would really miss having to correct all your mistakes

Think the only mistake I've made is predicting England to win a test.

Afro wrote:In reply to Carlos’ post, this hits the nail on the head.

For me personally, i would rather lose playing the current way than win playing the old way.

Yes i want to win, but not at the cost of ejoying it.

Ultimately, I watch it not for the result. Its not about results, but to enjoycricket, otherwise whats the point. I’d just be pointlessly watching 22 people throwing a ball around with a few bits of wood, whilst bored!!

Do you not enjoy test/FC cricket normally? England pre-Bazball were hardly boring, the rate of scoring/attacking fields was no different from other sides, and the number of exciting tests England were involved in was probably quite a way above average.

Ultimately England remain in the results business.

That said this approach put them in position needing 2 wickets with 50 runs to get and a new ball available, so I'm not entirely sure the entertainment over results line is that applicable.

Bazball has put England in a good position more often than not since its implementation, don't think we need to second guess that after losing 1 incredibly close game to the world's best team

Over at the Women's Test , Australia have reached 195/5 so the lead is over 200. Been helped by England dropping chances at the same rate as the men ; but with Ecclestone just removing the well set Mooney for 85 , the home team may sense they have a sniff...

Aussie "tail" is strong as ,though.  Lot to do yet.

Edit : Six down now as England actually hold a catch ! (First five were all bowled)

Getting interesting as Healy comes to the crease...

Afro wrote:

Duty281 wrote: No idea how England will replace someone who to ok 3/207 and scored 37 runs with the bat.

Whats Dom Bess up to these days?

Afro - as you asked, Bess has lost his place at Yorks to Surrey's on loan Dan Moriarty and gone on loan himself to Warks deputising for the injured Danny Briggs.

Bess' career is going the same way as Kerrigan's.

Looks like England women might have an interesting chase v Australia women. England women haven't won a test since 2014, is that right? Obviously, I appreciate they don't play many tests, but it has been quite a barren run.

I rated both Moriarty and Amar Virdi at Surrey when I saw them bowl early on. Virdi looked so talented as a spinner though his fielding undoubtedly needed a lot of work. I'm amazed both are still at Surrey given how they've, very successfully to be fair, prioritised seam bowling over the last few years.

I'd say Bess is going more Scott Borthwick's direction than Kerrigan's. I could certainly see Bess batting lower middle order well in CC if his batting keeps improving. He's got a strong basic technique.

alfie wrote:Over at the Women's Test , Australia have reached 195/5 so the lead is over 200. Been helped by England dropping chances at the same rate as the men ; but with Ecclestone just removing the well set Mooney for 85 , the home team may sense they have a sniff...

Aussie "tail" is strong as ,though.  Lot to do yet.

Edit : Six down now as England actually hold a catch ! (First five were all bowled)  

Getting interesting as Healy comes to the crease...

I'm so happy to see Ecclestone get a Test 10-fer. She's a brilliant cricketer and has put everything into this game. Admittedly the Healy wicket was an absolute pie though! Get her in the side for Lords...

A skippers knock from Healy prior to that rubbish dismissal though to get the Aussie lead up closer to 300 than 200.

This is well poised. Australia favourites with such bowling depth from their luxury of all-round talent. Certainly chasable though. England will be desperate for Beaumont to still be there at close.

Genuinely think she would walk into the men's side

Duty281 wrote:Bess' career is going the same way as Kerrigan's.

Looks like England women might have an interesting chase v Australia women. England women haven't won a test since 2014, is that right? Obviously, I appreciate they don't play many tests, but it has been quite a barren run.

Unless I'm misreading something, there hasn't been a result other than a draw in a women's test anywhere since 2015 - hopefully one here demonstrates the nonsense of them previously being 4 days

Well, England's chase has fallen apart. 55/0 after 10 overs - Bazballing it? - ended up being 116/5 from 28 overs at stumps. Still 152 required and all the top five dismissed, so hopes hanging by a thread.

Danni Wyatt just keeping the women the Ashes test. I would imagine that England will still lose but the game is still on.

Well done to the Aussie women. Gardner in particular, with 8/66!

Suspect the England men's team might be released today for Lord's, as it was released two days in advance of Edgbaston. I'd like to be proven wrong, but I don't think Woakes is going to play as the journalists in the know don't seem to have given much thought to him over the past week.

So might be a bowling attack of Moeen or Ahmed, Broad, Wood and one of Anderson/Robinson?

Seems like England's team will not be released today. Might be because they're waiting to see how Moeen's finger is, with indications he's likely to play if able.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/ashes-2023-england-delay-naming-lord-s-xi-but-moeen-ali-plays-full-part-in-training-1384336

Confirmed by Cricinfo that England have delayed naming their XI because they're waiting to see if Moeen will be fit to play. Meaning that Moeen will be in the side if fit.

I can understand England's viewpoint, because after a masterclass of spin bowling that saw Moeen take, um, 3/207 on a turning wicket, combined with a batting exhibition of 37 runs, it's obvious that Moeen is the first name on the teamsheet, provided he's fit and well. So I understand England's delay.

It's not like England have other options, is it? It's not like there's a spin bowler in the County Championship who is currently playing a game where he's scored 141 in the first innings, and followed it up with 6/38, is there? Oh, wait, there is? Well, sorry Liam Dawson, performing well in first-class cricket is no match for the cult of Moeen.

If Moeen isn't fit to play, England will make a decision between Rehan Ahmed and an extra seamer. Apparently the pitch is quite green, but there's time for that green to be removed.

Duty281 wrote:https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/ashes-2023-england-delay-naming-lord-s-xi-but-moeen-ali-plays-full-part-in-training-1384336



I can understand England's viewpoint, because after a masterclass of spin bowling that saw Moeen take, um, 3/207 on a turning wicket, combined with a batting exhibition of 37 runs, it's obvious that Moeen is the first name on the teamsheet, provided he's fit and well. So I understand England's delay.

It's not like England have other options, is it? It's not like there's a spin bowler in the County Championship who is currently playing a game where he's scored 141 in the first innings, and followed it up with 6/38, is there? Oh, wait, there is? Well, sorry Liam Dawson, performing well in first-class cricket is no match for the cult of Moeen.
.

Moeen bowled , the ball of the Ashes so far and out-bowled, out batted , out-performed the most successful  bowler in England; Anderson in England and astonishingly was trusted more by the captain than Anderson....and all with one finger, the spinning finger effectively missing for most of the game.
It's to the noted this Ali, the most legendary Ali after Mohammed Ali was pleaded to come out of retirement to directly join Eng's playing-11 with a test spot served on a platter without playing any Red Ball cricket , and bypassing every spinner in the land, and all that offered via a whatsapp message ....effectively giving every spinner in English FC cricket the right message....that there is eons of difference in class between Ali & "you rest" as we the "Establishment" see it.
Needless to say Ali is guaranteed 5 tests even if one more finger gets chopped

KP_fan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/ashes-2023-england-delay-naming-lord-s-xi-but-moeen-ali-plays-full-part-in-training-1384336



I can understand England's viewpoint, because after a masterclass of spin bowling that saw Moeen take, um, 3/207 on a turning wicket, combined with a batting exhibition of 37 runs, it's obvious that Moeen is the first name on the teamsheet, provided he's fit and well. So I understand England's delay.

It's not like England have other options, is it? It's not like there's a spin bowler in the County Championship who is currently playing a game where he's scored 141 in the first innings, and followed it up with 6/38, is there? Oh, wait, there is? Well, sorry Liam Dawson, performing well in first-class cricket is no match for the cult of Moeen.
.

Moeen bowled , the ball of the Ashes so far and out-bowled, out batted , out-performed the most successful  bowler in England; Anderson in England and astonishingly was trusted more by the captain than Anderson....and all with one finger, the spinning finger effectively missing for most of the game.
It's to the noted this Ali, the most legendary Ali after Mohammed Ali was pleaded to come out of retirement to directly join Eng's playing-11 with a test  spot served on a platter without playing any Red Ball cricket , and bypassing every spinner in the land, and all that offered via a whatsapp message ....effectively giving every spinner in English FC cricket the right message....that there is eons of difference in class between Ali & "you rest" as we the "Establishment" see it.
Needless to say Ali is guaranteed 5 tests even if one more finger gets chopped

The ball of the Ashes so far was delivered by Pat Cummins, when he knocked over Pope's stumps. Out-batting James Anderson, though he is the Burnley Brian Lara, is not an achievement of note. Well, maybe it is for Moeen, actually. Anderson also had his worst game in a while, and is likely to be dropped because of it, so Moeen having better figures than Anderson is of little consideration (plus the wicket was doing something for Moeen, not for Jimmy).

Moeen's finger was not injured for most of the game; his finger when he bowled his first innings tripe was fine. Moeen isn't even the most notable Ali in cricket, never mind sport.

England never pleaded with Moeen to come out on retirement. There is eons of difference in class between Moeen and other spinners on the county circuit, this is true - the other spinners are several levels above what Moeen offers. You look at Dawson or Rehan Ahmed, for instance, both bowlers considerably better than Moeen, who served up 3/207 on a turning wicket.

If England had actually picked Dawson or Rehan Ahmed instead of Moeen, or even no spinner and instead put an extra seamer in, then England might have actually won the test at Edgbaston. It's similar to when Giles was getting picked over Panesar in 2006.

That's the pitch for T2.
Offcourse they will shave it off
Regardless of how much they will shave it off, it will be live green grass, moisture entrapped and will jag off seam.
Eng's Go-Green is dangerous IMO...lottery pitch ....they loose the toss, will have to bat first and risk getting bundled out low.
How low ?
Maybe 150ish...and then rebounding becomes very hard both in the test & then in the series,
The stand, hit through line, throw hands at ball, pull off the front foot type strokes that epitomize "bazballing" needs largely a Patta flat pitch.

Once again guys, please can this lovers tryst over Moeen continue via PM if it has to continue in the same circle forever... 

I've completely given up trying to predict how pitches will behave from photos of them days out like that ever since one of the India dustbowls on England's last tour looked the same as the above a few days before play started.

Pitches get mowed, rolled and brushed so many times in those final few days that how long the grass is at this stage is entirely down to how the specific curator works.

king_carlos wrote:Once again guys, please can this lovers tryst over Moeen continue via PM if it has to continue in the same circle forever... 

Co-sign this - extremely boring at this point.

Interesting news in the Telegraph - apparently there are concerns over Mark Wood's 'readiness' to play his first test of the year, so it looks unlikely that he will start, which will be a surprise to most of us on here who thought he was a near-cert to play. If he's not ready to start now, then when? Anytime this series?

So with Wood unlikely to play, it seems England will stick with three non-pace options. Any three of Anderson/Broad/Robinson/Woakes to start at Lord's, it seems. Definitely no Potts as he's gone back to Durham. The final selection choice, according to the Telegraph, is set to be Moeen v Tongue. Seems an intriguing choice in terms of balance as Tongue offers pace. I would have thought two of the seamers plus Tongue, then the final choice being between Moeen and another seamer would have made more sense.

There may also be an issue with one of England's batsmen, as apparently Lawrence was pulled out midway through a County Championship game to provide 'cover' at Lord's.

The Mail seem to think England's bowling attack will be Moeen, Woakes, Robinson, Broad.

I hope The Mail is wrong about the attack . Not because I am religiously opposed to Moeen by the way - but I would be concerned about risking his finger again so soon. And because I think Wood probably ought to play this one.

They presumably are considering how the pitch might play. Sensibly : why rush ?

Is Lawrence possibly under consideration as an extra spin option if they were to go for four pace bowlers ? But who of the bats would be left out ?

This team announcement will be interesting...

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Once again guys, please can this lovers tryst over Moeen continue via PM if it has to continue in the same circle forever... 

Co-sign this - extremely boring at this point.

Indeed it seems fated to continue throughout the summer. Alternately , perhaps they could start a "Moeen : Yes or No ? " thread and move it all across

Meanwhile I am going to amuse myself thinking of reasons for England fans to remain optimistic ahead of game two.

Actually not sure why I've seen so much negativity (in some places) after that first result.  Sure , it could be seen as "one that got away" : but isn't that as much a cause for believing there is not a lot between the teams as it is disappointment in the (very narrow) loss ?

One could fuss about selection and possibly over aggressive tactics ; but in truth the main difference was probably that Australia missed just a couple of chances in the field over the two innings (and as it happened they didn't prove costly ) ; while England missed I think seven (plus a no ball costing a wicket) : and were duly punished. Hardly a stretch to suggest that if a couple of those chances had been taken they likely win - fairly easily.

Of course that's cricket : you have to take the chances offered. But it does surely demonstrate that for all the concerns over the limitations of the England bowling on a flat track , they did in fact create sufficient chances to do the job. (And one could even argue that since they actually had to "take" nearly all the Australian wickets , while quite a few England bats rather threw theirs away , they were in a way more effective than their opponents ! But I won't quite endorse that because dry bowling has its merits too)

Anyway what I am really getting at here is that it is way too early to conclude that the "Traditional Test Match" style of the tourists is necessarily going to work better than than England's hyper-aggressive strategy over the remaining games. A two wicket margin proves nothing given all the other variables.

What will be important , I think , is how the two teams react to the lessons of the first game. Will England temper their attack at all costs methods at key moments , to ensure they take full advantage of periods where they had their opponents seemingly on the ropes ? Or will Australia - who for all their planning still looked to be a bit shocked at times , particularly on that first day - be even more ready for everything Stokes' mob can throw at them ?

But I reckon it will still come down to which side executes their own plans better. Or perhaps more accurately ; whose players do so individually.

Incidentally I don't buy the worry that England will be too distressed because Edgbaston was some kind of "fortress". Australia won easily here four years ago , and the real fortress in the last twenty years has been Trent Bridge (England 3 Australia Nil : sadly not on the schedule this time round !). Over the previous five Ashes Series , Lord's has been 2-2 and 1 draw , The Oval 2-1 to the home side (2 drawn) , Headingly 1 all and Old Trafford 2 draws and one Aussie victory. So any venue might go either way.

Very kind of the ECB , by the way , to omit Cardiff and The Riverside as well as TB since the tourists have had no joy in any of them this century

Hope they announce the teams soon so we can all fill in the PJ competition details...

alfie wrote: ...

Hope they announce the teams soon so we can all fill in the PJ competition details...

I assume PJ has informed the Australian Cricket Board that Starc has to play.

More on your ''glass not three-quarters empty but a quarter full'' optimism post later. Off to the Oval now.

guildfordbat wrote:

alfie wrote: ...

Hope they announce the teams soon so we can all fill in the PJ competition details...

I assume PJ has informed the Australian Cricket Board that Starc has to play.

More on your ''glass not three-quarters empty but a quarter full'' optimism post later.  Off to the Oval now.

Yes, I've been informed we can almost certainly pencil him in, Guildford. He's jumping at the bit to get involved.

What's on at the Oval? A match or another chat session with Alec and the members?

Hi Joey - Day 3 of Surrey v Lancs in the Championship.
The home side well placed thanks to a staggering last wicket stand of 130 between Aussie born pair Sean Abbott and Dan “Sir Frank” Worrall.

Abbott is a super batsman, hard hitting and so reliable. Surrey need to try and get him promoted in the order, far too good to be going in at 9. He would be a decent deputy for Green if required although I guess Marsh has already got that ticket.

Sam Curran playing well with bat and ball in his first Championship appearance of the season which will interest Carlos even though he got out to a daft shot (Sam, not Carlos). Runs as well for Jacks and Jamie Smith although not enough - as my man Alec says, half-tons don’t win too many games!

Hmm. 4 pace men - but Tongue , not Wood ?

Only change , with Moeen out (so Duty can relax !)

Bit of a long tail...

See Will MacPherson as usual is spot on - Tongue into the XI for Moeen, and MacPherson reports there are suggestions Wood has an elbow injury (because of course...).

Seems like four seamers, and whatever they can get out of Root/Stokes as a 5th bowler.

Root as the main spinner then.

Tongue is interesting as another tall fast-medium

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:See Will MacPherson as usual is spot on - Tongue into the XI for Moeen, and MacPherson reports there are suggestions Wood has an elbow injury (because of course...).

Seems like four seamers, and whatever they can get out of Root/Stokes as a 5th bowler.

Hope thats the case with Wood otherwise it seems an odd decision. Not against Tongue, but not the point of difference to the other seamers that Wood provides (Faster, skiddier action)

Wood not being completely fit makes sense then. Surely he'd have played otherwise.

Worth trying Tongue , I think : he looked distinctly promising against Ireland - though this is of course a big step up.

Had thought we might see Woakes , both for his fine record here and his batting . Presumably the other three are all well rested and I suspect Anderson in particular should be better for the recent game under his belt.

Hope Robinson maintains his recently improved batting form !

Seems unlikely we will see Wood this summer then? If his elbow is bothering him after no cricket, it’ll be a big risk to throw him into an Ashes Test - especially as part of a 3 man seam attack.

Looks like the Telegraph was right then!

It's a curious team selection. First and foremost - what has Woakes done to upset the new order? Widely anticipated he was going to play v Ireland, didn't, and now not picked again at Lord's where he has a superb record.

Anderson, Robinson and Broad all picked. Hmm, it's a bit of a gamble because of the sort turnaround time for the third test. If Australia manage to bat, say, 200 overs in this test, they'll be knackered and England's changes might be wholesale for the third test. Hopefully we'll see a response from the first two after their poor showings at Lord's.

No Wood, shame, but not sure how much of an impact he would have made with his poor home record, which is seemingly forgotten about. Telegraph were right to comment on his injury. He could be another, like Archer, who may not play another test due to his problems. I heard that Olly Stone might be returning next week in some T20s, so there's a very outside chance that Stone comes in towards the end of the series.

Tongue, well he's the only 90mph pace option England have left in the arsenal. I'm still unconvinced by him, based on his last couple of county seasons. Sure, he did well against Ireland, but they were a hopeless opposition.

No Moeen. I'm guessing Moeen hasn't been picked because England are buying into this being a seamers paradise? Hopefully that is the case, hopefully the green remains, and England can actually utilise their home advantage over Australia. Root is also a better spin bowler than Moeen, so it's perfectly fine even if the pitch does take a bit of turn.

It is possible , I suppose , that the fact that Tongue seems more likely to be able to bowl extended spells, as he did against Ireland , may be a consideration in an attack lacking a full time spinner ? While Wood is seen more as a "short burst" type.

Though with three other seamers you'd think they have the overs covered and would want the high pace option. I get that Wood is also short of match practice : but he's not going to get any of that running drinks either !

Hope they know what they are doing.

Duty281 wrote:

No Moeen. I'm guessing Moeen hasn't been picked because England are buying into this being a seamers paradise? Hopefully that is the case, hopefully the green remains, and England can actually utilise their home advantage over Australia. Root is also a better spin bowler than Moeen, so it's perfectly fine even if the pitch does take a bit of turn.

Just couldn't resist it , could you ?

Duty281 wrote:Looks like the Telegraph was right then!

It's a curious team selection. First and foremost - what has Woakes done to upset the new order? Widely anticipated he was going to play v Ireland, didn't, and now not picked again at Lord's where he has a superb record.

Anderson, Robinson and Broad all picked. Hmm, it's a bit of a gamble because of the sort turnaround time for the third test. If Australia manage to bat, say, 200 overs in this test, they'll be knackered and England's changes might be wholesale for the third test. Hopefully we'll see a response from the first two after their poor showings at Lord's.

No Wood, shame, but not sure how much of an impact he would have made with his poor home record, which is seemingly forgotten about. Telegraph were right to comment on his injury. He could be another, like Archer, who may not play another test due to his problems. I heard that Olly Stone might be returning next week in some T20s, so there's a very outside chance that Stone comes in towards the end of the series.

Tongue, well he's the only 90mph pace option England have left in the arsenal. I'm still unconvinced by him, based on his last couple of county seasons. Sure, he did well against Ireland, but they were a hopeless opposition.

No Moeen. I'm guessing Moeen hasn't been picked because England are buying into this being a seamers paradise? Hopefully that is the case, hopefully the green remains, and England can actually utilise their home advantage over Australia. Root is also a better spin bowler than Moeen, so it's perfectly fine even if the pitch does take a bit of turn.

Think with Woakes it's a simple case that they see Broad/Robinson/Anderson as better bowlers (which, I mean ultimately they are) and Woakes will get a game if they're not fit enough to play. Plenty of time between the last test and this one to recover, as you say less from Lords to Headingley, so expect Woakes will come in there for one of them. When Stokes/McCullum took over they did say re: seamers, they were cutting down on the rest/rotation policy of previous regimes.

Since 2018 Lords has been the best ground in England for seamers, and worst for spin (by averages in tests) - and, while I know we can't take photos of the pitch as gospel, this one does seem to have a lot more grass on it than Edgbaston did.

Wouldn't hold my breath on Stone though Duty! I think we all said during the winter it would be a "believe it when I see it" re: Archer/Stone/Wood being fit for this test summer...and here we are at test 2 of the Ashes, no games played between them and with this Wood news, maybe we don't get even one game from them all summer - which is definitely on the unlucky side (you'd have thought one might make it!). Have similar reservations re: Tongue, but then if the Aussies were getting down to their, what 4th choice true pacer (probably 7th/8th best seamer overall) then I'm sure others would have similar reservations too. Hopefully Tongue can go well!

alfie wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

No Moeen. I'm guessing Moeen hasn't been picked because England are buying into this being a seamers paradise? Hopefully that is the case, hopefully the green remains, and England can actually utilise their home advantage over Australia. Root is also a better spin bowler than Moeen, so it's perfectly fine even if the pitch does take a bit of turn.

Just couldn't resist it , could you ?

Well he is! If England need 15 overs of spin in the match, they're better off getting that from Root than Moeen, plus there's the luxury of picking another seamer.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Looks like the Telegraph was right then!

It's a curious team selection. First and foremost - what has Woakes done to upset the new order? Widely anticipated he was going to play v Ireland, didn't, and now not picked again at Lord's where he has a superb record.

Anderson, Robinson and Broad all picked. Hmm, it's a bit of a gamble because of the sort turnaround time for the third test. If Australia manage to bat, say, 200 overs in this test, they'll be knackered and England's changes might be wholesale for the third test. Hopefully we'll see a response from the first two after their poor showings at Lord's.

No Wood, shame, but not sure how much of an impact he would have made with his poor home record, which is seemingly forgotten about. Telegraph were right to comment on his injury. He could be another, like Archer, who may not play another test due to his problems. I heard that Olly Stone might be returning next week in some T20s, so there's a very outside chance that Stone comes in towards the end of the series.

Tongue, well he's the only 90mph pace option England have left in the arsenal. I'm still unconvinced by him, based on his last couple of county seasons. Sure, he did well against Ireland, but they were a hopeless opposition.

No Moeen. I'm guessing Moeen hasn't been picked because England are buying into this being a seamers paradise? Hopefully that is the case, hopefully the green remains, and England can actually utilise their home advantage over Australia. Root is also a better spin bowler than Moeen, so it's perfectly fine even if the pitch does take a bit of turn.

Think with Woakes it's a simple case that they see Broad/Robinson/Anderson as better bowlers (which, I mean ultimately they are) and Woakes will get a game if they're not fit enough to play. Plenty of time between the last test and this one to recover, as you say less from Lords to Headingley, so expect Woakes will come in there for one of them. When Stokes/McCullum took over they did say re: seamers, they were cutting down on the rest/rotation policy of previous regimes.

Since 2018 Lords has been the best ground in England for seamers, and worst for spin (by averages in tests) - and, while I know we can't take photos of the pitch as gospel, this one does seem to have a lot more grass on it than Edgbaston did.

Wouldn't hold my breath on Stone though Duty! I think we all said during the winter it would be a "believe it when I see it" re: Archer/Stone/Wood being fit for this test summer...and here we are at test 2 of the Ashes, no games played between them and with this Wood news, maybe we don't get even one game from them all summer - which is definitely on the unlucky side (you'd have thought one might make it!). Have similar reservations re: Tongue, but then if the Aussies were getting down to their, what 4th choice true pacer (probably 7th/8th best seamer overall) then I'm sure others would have similar reservations too. Hopefully Tongue can go well!

Yeah, I'm not expecting Stone to return, either. Certainly unfortunate. Think Woakes can be on the level of the other three in English conditions and particularly on green seamers, so I'm very disappointed he's not in.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/england-to-begin-world-cup-title-defence-against-nz-on-october-5-1384209

Not that we care too much at the moment, but England's World Cup schedule has finally been released, with just 100 days to go until it starts. Opening game of the tournament is England v NZ, then England's games are Bangladesh, Afghanistan, South Africa, qualifier, India, Australia, qualifier, and Pakistan.

Looks like a pretty gentle start for England, with the tough teams waiting towards the end. All of England's games, including the knock-out games if they get there, are day-nighters, which will mean starts of 09:30 if you're watching in England.

For what it's worth Craig Overton has been bowling very nicely. Got a nice rhythm at the moment, bowling consistent line and length and economy has been good too.

Duty281 wrote:

No Moeen. I'm guessing Moeen hasn't been picked because England are buying into this being a seamers paradise? Hopefully that is the case, hopefully the green remains, and England can actually utilise their home advantage over Australia. Root is also a better spin bowler than Moeen, so it's perfectly fine even if the pitch does take a bit of turn.

Because Moeen, the legend wasn't likely to be 100% fit & available , Eng changed course from wanting bouncy pitches to a green one, where spinner will have negligible role.
if we play a spinner,. it will be only you  Moeen....was perhaps another whatsapp message that wasn't revealed

KP_fan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

No Moeen. I'm guessing Moeen hasn't been picked because England are buying into this being a seamers paradise? Hopefully that is the case, hopefully the green remains, and England can actually utilise their home advantage over Australia. Root is also a better spin bowler than Moeen, so it's perfectly fine even if the pitch does take a bit of turn.

Because Moeen, the legend wasn't likely to be 100% fit & available , Eng changed course from wanting bouncy pitches to a green one, where spinner will have negligible role.
if we play a spinner,. it will be only you  Moeen....was perhaps another whatsapp message that wasn't revealed

Nah, Moeen's just terrible. But continue salivating over someone terrible if it makes you feel better. You've been proven wrong at every point and turn - Moeen isn't indispensable, and Moeen isn't even very good.

Would love to see a green pitch, but I doubt it. If England did want to move towards pitches where the spinner has a negligible role - and I'm not sure they have because spin never plays much of a role at Lord's - then that's obviously because England recognise they don't have quality spinners in their squad.

Duty281 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

No Moeen. I'm guessing Moeen hasn't been picked because England are buying into this being a seamers paradise? Hopefully that is the case, hopefully the green remains, and England can actually utilise their home advantage over Australia. Root is also a better spin bowler than Moeen, so it's perfectly fine even if the pitch does take a bit of turn.

Because Moeen, the legend wasn't likely to be 100% fit & available , Eng changed course from wanting bouncy pitches to a green one, where spinner will have negligible role.
if we play a spinner,. it will be only you  Moeen....was perhaps another whatsapp message that wasn't revealed

Nah, Moeen's just terrible. But continue salivating over someone terrible if it makes you feel better. You've been proven wrong at every point and turn - Moeen isn't indispensable, and Moeen isn't even very good.

Private messages gents. We beg you.

king_carlos wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

No Moeen. I'm guessing Moeen hasn't been picked because England are buying into this being a seamers paradise? Hopefully that is the case, hopefully the green remains, and England can actually utilise their home advantage over Australia. Root is also a better spin bowler than Moeen, so it's perfectly fine even if the pitch does take a bit of turn.

Because Moeen, the legend wasn't likely to be 100% fit & available , Eng changed course from wanting bouncy pitches to a green one, where spinner will have negligible role.
if we play a spinner,. it will be only you  Moeen....was perhaps another whatsapp message that wasn't revealed

Nah, Moeen's just terrible. But continue salivating over someone terrible if it makes you feel better. You've been proven wrong at every point and turn - Moeen isn't indispensable, and Moeen isn't even very good.

Private messages gents. We beg you.

Scroll past it, sweetie.