England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes

First topic message reminder :

If Pope can't play I'd probably prefer Foakes coming in, taking the gloves, myself. Maybe:

1.Crawley 2.Duckett 3.Brook 4.Root 5.Bairstow 6.Stokes (c) 7.Foakes (wk)

It means a rejigging of the order but gets better players in the XI than Lawrence at 3 IMO. Particularly when I'm not that convinced by Lawrence against higher pace. Given the 15 man squad that isn't on the cards though.

If Wood is genuinely fit I'd like his pace in the attack but would probably ere towards the seam heavy attack again if the 4  below are good to go:

8.Woakes 9.Broad 10.Wood 11.Tongue

If Wood isn't fit then:

8.Moeen 9.Woakes 10.Broad 11.Tongue

Which does have a lot of batting depth on the upside.

What a performance that is from Mark Wood. 5-34. Given he hasn't got the best record in England it's all the more remarkable. I'm delighted for him. He's a wonderfully likeable cricketer who has had little luck with injury.

Never judge a pitch until both sides have batted. We'll now see what sort of pitch it is. How special that Marsh innings may have been? How costly the drop?

England would have taken that every time at the toss but it could've been much better. A bit like how we'd have taken the score at the close of T2 D2 at the beginning of that day but not at 180-odd for 1 and Lyon being helped off the ground.

I'll be fairly nervous watching this start.

Good that it was wrapped up, but the concern is that yet again making M Marsh look like an actual cricketer is going to be the point of difference. All this 400 is par business, it could turn out that 150 was actually par

Five for Wood !!! Fantastic performance...dragged England back into the game with searing pace

263 ...after being 240/4 ! Would have taken that on sending Australia in. Only negative being if Marsh had been caught , would they have made 150 ?

That's unfair of course as you never know what would have happened "if" . Butterfly wings etc. But it would seem Australia have made a few more than they might have ; if maybe less than they would like.

We will see how good this score is when England bat. But if they can post a good score , they'll be quite confident about the second innings with Wood in this sort of form.

Very weird innings. Could've been 150, could've been 350 or higher. In the end I suspect England would've taken this total after winning the toss but now they have a tough session to bat. Should be good tomorrow

Genuine pace obviously a good way of getting the tail out. Definitely a day where Wood had the ball coming out well, with several deliveries above 95 mph and decent accuracy. The ball that got Starc was 90, Cummins 92, Carey 90

Take Marsh's assault out of it (or him being caught off the early chance), and it was absolutely England's day.

Stat of the day - Wood's slowest delivery was 88.2 mph. England only bowled 2 balls quicker than that in the first two tests...

having seen wood on this pitch got to think starc will be a danger

A bit in this for the pace men especially with the new ball so batting won't be easy. As KC says , judge the pitch after both sides have batted.

This is the part where I get nervous... Will refrain from posting for a while I think.

alfie wrote:Five for Wood !!! Fantastic performance...dragged England back into the game with searing pace

263 ...after being 240/4 !  Would have taken that on sending Australia in.  Only negative being if Marsh had been caught , would they have made 150 ?

That's unfair of course as you never know what would have happened "if" . Butterfly wings etc. But it would seem Australia have made a few more than they might have ; if maybe less than they would like.

We will see how good this score is when England bat. But if they can post a good score , they'll be quite confident about the second innings with Wood in this sort of form.

Some growing concern for Aus in that department. 316/4 to 416ao and 187/2 to 279ao in the last test.

as marsh shown attacking counter attack might be the best way on this pitch. think if you try to bed in there will be a ball with your name on it

Jimmy gotta be sitting in the changing rooms absolutely chewing wasps after having to bowl on those two dead wickets first two tests then missing out on this

I don't think there's really been "one with your name on" type of balls. There has been seam movement but nothing drastic. There's been swing but again not drastic, though it did keep swinging throughout. There's pace and carry but it's been consistent rather than the odd one leaping. It looks a really good wicket to me. Married with the incredibly quick outfield there's definitely runs to be had if batters get in.

Wood's wickets were more due to the sheer pace than the conditions I felt.

Woakes and Broad were both very accurate with Broad getting seam and Woakes swing. It isn't a snake pit in terms of lateral movement though.

One thing I'll be interested in is Boland's seam movement. A distinction of Boland is how far his wobble ball moves when it does seam in. I don't have the exact figures to hand but Boland's seam movement is very pronounced when it moves. There is also a big difference between Boland's first and second innings averages though. He's found more seam movement from that wobble ball and hence more success in the second bowling innings.

Argh. Cummins gets Duckett to a very good catch from Carey. He's had a impressive series has the Aussie WK.

Brook's poor series continues. 22/2. Pressure back on England.

That first take illustrating a key difference between the sides. Wouldn't expect Bairstow to get that, but Carey will. Then, unsurprisingly, moving a player who hasn't excelled to a tougher position hasn't actually worked.

Really good start from the Aussie bowlers. Cummins looking fired up. Three from the tail...

GSC wrote:Very weird innings. Could've been 150, could've been 350 or higher. In the end I suspect England would've taken this total after winning the toss but now they have a tough session to bat. Should be good tomorrow

You're going tomorrow, aren't you, GSC? Certainly should be good. You might want to hold off running on with your Stop Oil protest until late in the day!

Duty281 wrote:That first take illustrating a key difference between the sides. Wouldn't expect Bairstow to get that, but Carey will. Then, unsurprisingly, moving a player who hasn't excelled to a tougher position hasn't actually worked.

Really good start from the Aussie bowlers. Cummins looking fired up. Three from the tail...

I'd still expect Brook to make more at 3 than Lawrence to be fair. Regardless of a poor series he's the far better batting talent. Even with my preferred pre Test selection of recalling Foakes I was still think Bairstow to 5, Brook to 3. England's issues at the top of the order no doubt remain though.

On the catching aspect. I think my frustrations on that enduringly dismal aspect of England play has been expressed enough during the bowling!

A sharp first one from Boland for 4lb admittedly. 87mph and absolutely flew off the pitch.

Second ball is a lovely 4 from Root though. Trademark late steer through backward point. I've seen few better through that area.

king_carlos wrote:

Duty281 wrote:That first take illustrating a key difference between the sides. Wouldn't expect Bairstow to get that, but Carey will. Then, unsurprisingly, moving a player who hasn't excelled to a tougher position hasn't actually worked.

Really good start from the Aussie bowlers. Cummins looking fired up. Three from the tail...

I'd still expect Brook to make more at 3 than Lawrence to be fair. Regardless of a poor series he's the far better batting talent. Even with my preferred pre Test selection of recalling Foakes I was still think Bairstow to 5, Brook to 3. England's issues at the top of the order no doubt remain though.

On the catching aspect. I think my frustrations on that enduringly dismal aspect of England play has been expressed enough during the bowling!

Yeah, I'm just sorry for your customers waiting for their feed!

guildfordbat wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

Duty281 wrote:That first take illustrating a key difference between the sides. Wouldn't expect Bairstow to get that, but Carey will. Then, unsurprisingly, moving a player who hasn't excelled to a tougher position hasn't actually worked.

Really good start from the Aussie bowlers. Cummins looking fired up. Three from the tail...

I'd still expect Brook to make more at 3 than Lawrence to be fair. Regardless of a poor series he's the far better batting talent. Even with my preferred pre Test selection of recalling Foakes I was still think Bairstow to 5, Brook to 3. England's issues at the top of the order no doubt remain though.

On the catching aspect. I think my frustrations on that enduringly dismal aspect of England play has been expressed enough during the bowling!

Yeah, I'm just sorry for your customers waiting for their feed!

  Day off today thankfully for them and me!

I'm back in Friday and Saturday though which might be a good thing for my blood pressure given this series so far. 

Marsh's bowling looking very rusty there, understandably. He absolutely punished England batting but his bowling is unquestionable a huge step down from Green. Steepling bounce at near 90mph trader for out of nick medium pacers.

Please don't gift the part timer a 3-fer England. Please don't do it. I might give up if your do. Just don't. It's unnecessary. It's going to happen isn't it?

There's one unfortunately

Two passengers in the team and one of them is out for 33. He's just so easy to get out.

There have been 98 players in test history who have opened the batting for 50+ innings. Crawley ranks 93rd out of 98 in terms of batting average (26.49), and is almost four runs fewer than Burns.

Dangerous little 20 minutes now for England. Australia on top if they get another tonight. It's certainly doing a bit.

Good final half session for Australia to bring them back level. Been to two ashes tests before and only seen one team bat all day on both. Suspect that won't be the case tomorrow

What a mad day. The best of England, plus the worst of England. All together its put the game in the balance, when England should be far ahead. Could end up regretting not putting Australia away for 150, which they really should have done.

Good effort from the Yorkshire duo to get England to stumps. But it is quite precarious. One good spell tomorrow and the tail will be exposed. Going to need Root to go big, you would think, if England are going to get a lead.

It should be a good day for batting because it's forecast to be bright sunshine throughout and temperatures in the high 20s. Saturday and Monday still look like they could be quite wet, but 13 wickets have already fallen, so it shouldn't matter much.

So only three gone in that session. Nervy watching...Cummins very good , Starc dangerous ; but Marsh getting a break ? Can do no wrong today

Not sure who is on top ? Early wickets tomorrow and England might crumble and concede a significant lead. Get a partnership or two going and as the ball gets older they might prosper. At least they've already saved the follow on...

Another tremendous fluctuating day . And thankfully no hour at a time short ball barrage !

Good night from me...

Couldn't catch much of the game, but when I managed a bit, Steven Smith was nicking one and just not wanting to go! and then when I came back to watch a bit, Mitchell Marsh of all people, had a hundred to his name and just got out!!! What on earth is wrong with England? Won't be surprised if he ends up with a fifor tomorrow!
Some sensational pace bowling from Mark Wood. All the wait for him was worth it. Doesn't have the best of home records, but gosh he was truly rapid today! After Mitchell Johnson, haven't seen anyone delivering such consistent quick stuff in recent times. Pitty his body doesn' hold up all that well.
England letting slip the situation again. But glad to note Root playing like he should. Bairstow did the right thing tonight by focusing on seeing the day through. But he's not the soundest with his defense, but has a very fine attacking game. Should trust his new approach and go for it whenever possible tomorrow. Stokes should play like a proper test bat that he is. Its even at the moment, but England just need one good partnership to gain serious ground.
BTW, despite his rolicking test beginning and all the IPL hype and money around him, I am beginning to have more and more doubts about Hary Brook. Too much of a hand-eye coordination player with no good defense. Has a good attacking game, but they really need to work on making his basic defense decent enough to even give himself a chance.

The game appears to stands in balance right now....but given the level of assistance pitch has for seamers....
The lower middle order is not likely to score too many.....and I have a feeling Eng will fall short.

Eng let Aus get about 70 too many.......didn't expect Mitch to play the inning he did & were caught frozen as Marsh jr. continued with his blitz.
Should have restricted Aus to sub-200ish

At the end of T1 I had noted....all other factors brushed aside, the incompetence of WK cost Eng T1 and if they don't replace Bairstow as a WK immediately it might cost them the series.
Incompetence of WK and many more dropped dollies has hurt Eng badly.
Spinners don't have a role until Todd bowls in 4th inning.

In the morning butcher & Artherton were confirming to each other that Brooks has the technique to bat during T3.
To me he confirmed what I observed of him during T2
Brooks does not have a defense, stays leg sidish of the ball,does not get behind the line of the ball and further has the risk of being blown away by a bouncer one day as he tries to play the bouncer of the front foot and gets into a tangle

king_carlos wrote:Marsh's bowling looking very rusty there, understandably. He absolutely punished England batting but his bowling is unquestionable a huge step down from Green. Steepling bounce at near 90mph trader for out of nick medium pacers.

Please don't gift the part timer a 3-fer England. Please don't do it. I might give up if your do. Just don't. It's unnecessary. It's going to happen isn't it?

For f*** sake. F***ing cricket. Stupid f***ing sport.

Know it can be said of most days…but tomorrow really is the day for England. If they’re to have any hope of saving this series, they have to have a good day tomorrow and be well on top come close of play.

Squandered that opportunity in the field today unfortunately

Agreed. It's been a 'nearly' series for England so far.

They nearly got there in T1 but shelled too many chances and showed poor tactics at the end.

They nearly took control of T2 but sh*t the bed with some very poor batting on D2 and didn't take full advantage of the best bowling and batting conditions in the Test.

They nearly bundled Australia today but dropped chances. They nearly recovered to make close 2 down, laying a foundation for tomorrow but lost a very tame wicket to a part time medium pacer late on.

Tomorrow's forecast looks perfect for batting. The ball is already 19 overs old. Australia are missing their front line spinner with nearly 500 wickets and their all-rounder who bowls nearly 90mph from 6'6". Tomorrow is the day.

Yet, I still feel that if Root goes early it might all crumble. He must be the most tired man in cricket from carrying this batting line up about the world.

Also know he’s down the pecking order (albeit it’s only what 14-15 months since he made a decent test debut!) but I see Saqib Mahmood has suffered another stress fracture of the back. Horrendous injury luck for the kid

The most important day of the Ashes series for England today, they simply have to get a lead to have any hope of getting something out of this series.
Crawley is an enigma, he has all the skill and quality to be a proper test opener but does not seem to have what it takes mentally. For me, he is the most frustrating opener I have seen.
Brook, well he has been found out in test matches and is pretty much just a walking wicket. He is someone who also has skill and talent but approaches the erd ball game exactly the same as the white ball game and has zero defense. He is easily worked out by good test bowlers.

A lot of work for Root and Bairstow today, they need to put on at least 150 if England are going to seize the advantage.

If England could catch, that would so much have been their day - a couple of really tough ones (Bairstow's leg side dive off the Smith inside edge was a 1 in 10 at best, and I don't hold that Foakes would necessarily have made a better attempt, the one that hit Root at Short leg was even lower likelihood)., but there were at least 3 that really should have been taken at Test level, including Root's drop of Marsh early on. Get MArsh for 12 rather than after his hundred, and we could have had Aus out for 150ish.

England bowled brilliantly yesterday, particularly Wood (90mph+ and with some swing - the ball that got Khawaja was one of the best of the series), as I don't think the wicket was THAT helpful. Just a shame we needed to take 15 wickets...

Big day today for England's batsmen - runs will undoubtedly come quickly (the wicket is OK for strokeplay, and the outfield is lightning), so we should have a lead before tea if we can bat that long. Really needs one of the two in now to go big and for the rest to bat around them.
Cue another Test century from the nicest man in cricket*, showing why he should ahve been picked before.

* I think this is now Chris Woakes official title isn't it? Wood is undoubtedly the funniest man in cricket, although i also liked Mitch Marsh's comment about this match spoiling his UK holiday..

Was there any resolution to K_C & Soul's debate about DRS?  Pretty gripping stuff.  I though K_C had the upper hand but Soul did a good job hanging in their with some gritty and courageous arguing.
I actually did find it quite difficult.

Galted wrote:Was there any resolution to K_C & Soul's debate about DRS?  Pretty gripping stuff.  I though K_C had the upper hand but Soul did a good job hanging in their with some gritty and courageous arguing.
I actually did find it quite difficult.

They ended up agreeing that if a cat has a dream that you stepped on its paw, that when it wakes up it will legitimately think you stepped on its paw, and so will scratch you at a later date for revenge.

msp83 wrote:BTW, despite his rolicking test beginning and all the IPL hype and money around him, I am beginning to have more and more doubts about Hary Brook. Too much of a hand-eye coordination player with no good defense. Has a good attacking game, but they really need to work on making his basic defense decent enough to even give himself a chance.

dummy_half wrote:Big day today for England's batsmen - runs will undoubtedly come quickly (the wicket is OK for strokeplay, and the outfield is lightning), so we should have a lead before tea if we can bat that long.

I think both these things come down to Bazball-era England refusing to accept that Test cricket is different to other forms of the game. It comes back to what Glenn McGrath was saying, you have to give it the respect it deserves or you'll come unstuck eventually. If these two don't show (old-fashioned?) batting patience, then they'll pay for it.

Duty281 wrote:

Galted wrote:Was there any resolution to K_C & Soul's debate about DRS?  Pretty gripping stuff.  I though K_C had the upper hand but Soul did a good job hanging in their with some gritty and courageous arguing.
I actually did find it quite difficult.

They ended up agreeing that if a cat has a dream that you stepped on its paw, that when it wakes up it will legitimately think you stepped on its paw, and so will scratch you at a later date for revenge.

Or not, but that it will scratch you anyway, just because you tickled it in not quite the right spot.

dummy_half wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Galted wrote:Was there any resolution to K_C & Soul's debate about DRS?  Pretty gripping stuff.  I though K_C had the upper hand but Soul did a good job hanging in their with some gritty and courageous arguing.
I actually did find it quite difficult.

They ended up agreeing that if a cat has a dream that you stepped on its paw, that when it wakes up it will legitimately think you stepped on its paw, and so will scratch you at a later date for revenge.

Or not, but that it will scratch you anyway, just because you tickled it in not quite the right spot.

Mine's into pre-scratching so that any offence later in the day is covered.

Root gone second ball. Nice ball from Cummins and England are almost finished off, I reckon.

One from the tail.

Sounds like it was a sharp catch from Warner?

Yeah, one you'd expect him to take, but it wobbled late and Warner had to correct his position.

Root could have probably left it on length, however leaving isn't something England do a lot of.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Sounds like it was a sharp catch from Warner?

most slippers would take it, unless they are english

Well, today has not started too well with the loss of Root. Just hope Bairstow and Stokes can now get England close to the Aussie score. Anymore wickets and it may be a very short batting innings for England...

Surprised Australia didn't open with Starc, but he's in now after Boland only got two overs.

And it works. Bairstow, possibly a little frustrated with not much scoring, throws his hands at a wide one, and another neat take in the cordon. Really underlining the difference.

Time for Moeen to justify his inclusion at 7. I suggested in the second innings of the first test that Moeen needed to take some wickets, and KP_Fan immediately claimed I was setting the bar too high. Hopefully asking Moeen to score some runs isn't setting the bar too high.

Bollix, Starc comes on and that's it for Bairstow.

time for this long tail, stokes might have go into one day mode

You just know that after yesterdays collapse by the Aussies, they will still find a way to get a 100 run innings lead...

Just seen the Bairstow dismissal, why was he even playing at it? It's such dumb cricket.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Just seen the Bairstow dismissal, why was he even playing at it? It's such dumb cricket.

It's a wide half volley - if you're not gonna go after them in any format of cricket you ain't gonna score many runs...(his issue was he didn't move his feet, like at all)

But you don't have to go after every bad ball. Take the state of play into account.

Stokes survives on umpire's call. My finger was up for that one in real-time.