England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes

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If Pope can't play I'd probably prefer Foakes coming in, taking the gloves, myself. Maybe:

1.Crawley 2.Duckett 3.Brook 4.Root 5.Bairstow 6.Stokes (c) 7.Foakes (wk)

It means a rejigging of the order but gets better players in the XI than Lawrence at 3 IMO. Particularly when I'm not that convinced by Lawrence against higher pace. Given the 15 man squad that isn't on the cards though.

If Wood is genuinely fit I'd like his pace in the attack but would probably ere towards the seam heavy attack again if the 4  below are good to go:

8.Woakes 9.Broad 10.Wood 11.Tongue

If Wood isn't fit then:

8.Moeen 9.Woakes 10.Broad 11.Tongue

Which does have a lot of batting depth on the upside.

That should definitely have been out.

guildfordbat wrote:

GSC wrote:Very weird innings. Could've been 150, could've been 350 or higher. In the end I suspect England would've taken this total after winning the toss but now they have a tough session to bat. Should be good tomorrow

You're going tomorrow, aren't you, GSC? Certainly should be good. You might want to hold off running on with your Stop Oil protest until late in the day!

They didn't check my backpack very thoroughly...

Duty281 wrote:Stokes survives on umpire's call. My finger was up for that one in real-time.

i thought it was comfortably outside the line watching it live

Would like to see them try take on Murphy here - not turning it or looking particularly threatening

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Would like to see them try take on Murphy here - not turning it or looking particularly threatening

I do suspect the torch paper is shortly to be lit.

Then wait to see who gets blown up!

Ha! Murphy pulled after 4 overs - thought Australia could have risked something happening there.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Would like to see them try take on Murphy here - not turning it or looking particularly threatening

So, the kind of bowler that will take an 8 for then?

ali just cant help himself, gets out like this every match

That's pretty dim from Moeen. He got a warning just a few balls ago, then does the same thing again.

Difference is Smith had come in a little from the deep. Six down. Can Robinson bat later on?

How could we all see that trap being set, yet he still walks in to it. Every innings!

Duty281 wrote:That's pretty dim from Moeen. He got a warning just a few balls ago, then does the same thing again.

Difference is Smith had come in a little from the deep. Six down. Can Robinson bat later on?

They are saying Robinson can bat, but won't be able to bowl today.

compelling and rich wrote:ali just cant help himself, gets out like this every match

Twice a match!

guildfordbat wrote:Ha! Murphy pulled after 4 overs - thought Australia could have risked something happening there.

Cummins obviously saw there were better options at this stage. The plan worked. Not much turn; so stick with the quicks.
Very much old WACA-like conditions out there... without the afternoon sea breeze. The wicket looks so dry and parched.

England need Stokes to go super saiyan again

Woakes is gonna score quick and/or get out quick

Woakes is not the best against the short ball to be honest. They really should pitch it up so we can see a few of those beautiful cover drives

That was just pathetic from England. A pathetic morning. Heading for four defeats in five and the worst series result v Australia at home since 2001. The bowling was very good yesterday, but the fielding and batting has been lousy. England have never lost 0-5 to Australia at home, but it's starting to come into view.

Try and get the deficit down to around 50 is probably the best England can hope for from here, barring more Stokes magic.

Well that could hardly have gone worse for England

Some good bowling ; some sound catching . Some not very clever batting.

Miracle turnarounds happen here. But not sure there is one coming this week.

Think Cummins will be rehearsing his Ashes presentation acceptance speech...

Awful from England with the bat so far - absolutely awful. Staring down the barrel of the Ashes being over after 3 games, and a 5-0 whitewash at this rate.

I wouldn't entirely throw the Bazball out with the bathwater, but it's really not come off this series. I agree with Glenn McGrath, it all seems very casual and complacent. Very little price put on anyone's wicket and don't bother with fielding practice if we can have a good laugh instead.

Selection has been baffling at times and none of the marginal calls have paid off e.g. Bairstow back as keeper, Moeen back as whatever he's supposed to be good at. Continuing with 30 and out Crawley

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Awful from England with the bat so far - absolutely awful. Staring down the barrel of the Ashes being over after 3 games, and a 5-0 whitewash at this rate.

They really are. And the frustrating thing is that if they had only held their chances at a similar rate to the Australians they may well have been even or ahead in the series by now. Full credit to Australia for doing what they have done well ; but England's "unforced errors" have made this look much more one sided than it has been.

I can vividly remember the annihilations of 1989 and 1993 . In those series there was just no contest - with the sides miles apart in all areas. Not the case this time at all. But the final scoreline threatens to be similar.

VTR wrote:I wouldn't entirely throw the Bazball out with the bathwater, but it's really not come off this series. I agree with Glenn McGrath, it all seems very casual and complacent. Very little price put on anyone's wicket and don't bother with fielding practice if we can have a good laugh instead.

Selection has been baffling at times and none of the marginal calls have paid off e.g. Bairstow back as keeper, Moeen back as whatever he's supposed to be good at. Continuing with 30 and out Crawley

No it doesn't take away from the last 12 months and previous good performances - but it has been an underwhelming performance, with some poor decisions. Do hope there is a bit of reflection/contrition after the series.

Actually think for the most part we've bowled well - certainly created enough chances to win all the games, especially on those two dead wickets for the first two tests. Unfortunately, the batting has not taken advantage when they've had the opportunity to put their foot on the Aussies throats (thrown away wickets to Lyon first test and *that* declaration, not taking advantage when Lyon injured in the second, just poor here so far)...and the fielding has been shoddy at best throughout.

The main problem with Bazball has been these wickets. Bazball requires good batting tracks to work, but that plays right into Australia's hands and negates England's seam advantage. It's almost been like an away series, with the way the pitches have played.

England were also too arrogant and too cocky after their earlier wins over teams at least a couple of levels below Australia. And for all the talk on here about how England could be 1-1, or even 2-0, based on fine margins, worth remembering that some of tests last summer could have easily fallen differently. Maybe if they lost a couple more tests last summer they would have been more focused, rather than proclaiming nonsense about how they won the first test because of style, or Crawley saying England would win by 150 runs at Lord's.

I hope this chastening series defeat brings England back down to earth. There are times in test cricket where England can bat and take the attack to the opposition, certainly, but there are also moments where you need to cover up and be prepared to grind, as Australia have shown. And they're the world test champions for a reason.

Agree with the casualness, also, I doubt Andy Flower would have been so laissez-faire about England dropping so many. Also agree about the selections. Moeen and Crawley being in the side is just laughable. Foakes ignored because his style doesn't fit. Terrible stuff.

alfie wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Awful from England with the bat so far - absolutely awful. Staring down the barrel of the Ashes being over after 3 games, and a 5-0 whitewash at this rate.

They really are. And the frustrating thing is that if they had only held their chances at a similar rate to the Australians they may well have been even or ahead in the series by now. Full credit to Australia for doing what they have done well ; but England's "unforced errors" have made this look much more one sided than it has been.

I can vividly remember the annihilations of 1989 and 1993 . In those series there was just no contest - with the sides miles apart in all areas. Not the case this time at all.  But the final scoreline threatens to be similar.

The result could end up worse than any of the series from 1989 to 2001 (1997 series scoreline is almost artificially close) which would be a terrible outcome, because in any of those series you would struggle to name an England player that would make it into the Australian team.

I thought Australia would win this series, but they haven't really played that well in all honesty. Then a Marsh taking our bowling apart just wants to make me give up watching cricket altogether

England have painted themselves into a corner with this new approach and their selections. I note the scoring rate has dropped off a bit this session and it's as if they've been instructed to maybe salvage what you can, play more circumspectly and try to get as close as possible to the 263 runs Australia got.

Problem is, that goes against The McCullum Decree and is only half of the equation for successful Test cricket anyway. A most of us know.

Still 121 runs behind so seems an uphill task at the moment. It's possible (but unlikely) unless Stokes has a pain-killing epidural in his lower back at lunch. There's a greater risk for his fitness going into the final days of this one though and the 2 matches which follow. Keep him running I say and turning for twos with a slightly more defensive field to tempt him to keep the scoreboard moving if he can't go big this time.

Wood was brilliant yesterday but he needs some support too or else he might break down. Woakes can assist with that (as he has shown) but Broad and Mo will also need to step up in Australia's 2nd innings and share the load. There's plenty of room for improvement in the field too - the Root drop (no, I won't say it) again let Australia off the hook.

Even as the only Aussie fan on here, it's painful to see Stokes hobbling (queue the onslaught after tea!), Robinson pulling up lame, Pope gone for the series (?) and who knows how long Ali's finger will hold up? Australia have a couple of injury concerns but nothing compared to England. Cummins captaincy and on-field performance has been superb. Sure, luck has played a big part so far but it's a game of 'what is' and not 'what if'.

VTR wrote:I wouldn't entirely throw the Bazball out with the bathwater, but it's really not come off this series. I agree with Glenn McGrath, it all seems very casual and complacent. Very little price put on anyone's wicket and don't bother with fielding practice if we can have a good laugh instead.

Selection has been baffling at times and none of the marginal calls have paid off e.g. Bairstow back as keeper, Moeen back as whatever he's supposed to be good at. Continuing with 30 and out Crawley

They are still relatively at the beginning with Bazball. Its about learning as they go along and developing the strategy rather than expecting it work all the time, straight away, and abandon it when it doesn't.

The culture change to the white ball team didn't happen overnight either, but they kept the faith, adjusted the approach until we ended up with the double world cup winners we have now. They also stuck with players rather than ditch them in that team too.

On the fielding, they made a valid point on the TV coverage yesterday. All the fielding coaches these days focus on either quick ground fielding to restrict runs, or catching in the deep. Both a consequence of the white ball game. There isn't a lot of coaching on close catching. Having said that, Australia don't drop theirs, so someone must be doing it somewhere.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:it has been an underwhelming performance, with some poor decisions. Do hope there is a bit of reflection/contrition after the series.

That doesn't seem to be the style though, and if the individual matches end up close enough on paper I can't see it changing.

i do agree with the casualness of this side and the selection of mo ali epitomizes it.

heres a professional athlete who at the start of the series casually admitting he'll bowl plenty of bad balls. and will constantly just throw his wicket away. long way past being anywhere near a professional athlete these days but even i wouldn't simply accept a weakness when playing sport. id be doing my absolute to improve on it

didnt mind that from wood, added more runs than root and bairstow

Fun cameo from Wood, but England still down by 95 with two left.

The Wood blitz was fun while it lasted

Wonder how close they can get to that Australian total with just Broad and two hobbling partners ?

Pal Joey wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:Ha! Murphy pulled after 4 overs - thought Australia could have risked something happening there.

Cummins obviously saw there were better options at this stage. The plan worked. Not much turn; so stick with the quicks.
Very much old WACA-like conditions out there... without the afternoon sea breeze. The wicket looks so dry and parched.

You and Cummins were absolutely right there, Joey.

I was naive enough to think that Moeen had a couple of brain cells and wouldn’t fall like he did, especially after getting away with it the ball before.

murphy on, will go one of two ways this.

Think PJ summed things up rather well actually. I wouldn't say England were arrogant : think they honestly felt their aggressive- sometimes excessively so - approach was their best chance to mix it with a very good Australian team. And at times it has worked , rattled their opponents and taken them into good positions. But they have not been able to capitalise on them - partly because of their own errors of judging when to push and when to pause ; and partly because Cummins has consistently managed to get his team's collective head back on in time to avert a meltdown.

Will need a bit of a reset after this series but hopefully they don't panic and abandon all the good parts ...but rather try to tune the machine a bit better .

Meanwhile , Stokes is on the charge again

In years to come much like Flintoff people will look at Stokes' record and try to figure out why he was so highly regarded. His bowling average is more than decent especially for an all rounder but the past two innings whilst spectacular are equally frustrating. How can a batsman be that good but have an average of 36?

I would really like to know what the coaches are seeing but we are not in certain players.

Moeen Ali, every man and his dog knew that it was a mistake to call him into the squad for the first test and were even more shocked that he was selected for this one.

Crawley, it is so clear that he is not up to the standard of international opener for England in tests but yet is constantly selected. Based on what, a couple of good knocks?

Bairstow, Coming back after an injury has seriously hampered his performance bot with gloves and bat. After the first test it was plainly obvious that he would struggle, why the refusal to change?

Now, I am not blaming these three lads for the current state of things but it just confuses me how we all can see these glaring issues but the coaches/selectors seemingly do not.

Bairstow is well known to be poor batting having kept wicket, his record in the first innings of matches is superb at 48 but there's a significant drop off after that. Last summer he excelled by having a set role and position with Foakes keeping wicket. I can work that out with a one minute search so the selectors must also know so why persist with doing something that has never worked?

Thank the heavens for Stokes getting England to within 30 runs of the Aussie first innings. Lets just now hope that the bowlers can run through the Aussies quickly.

Superb effort from Stokes again. Got the deficit down to 28 before perishing. I think with regards to Stokes' average it's an issue of motivation. When put into a difficult position, or a high-stakes innings, there's no one you'd rather have. In more run of the mill innings he tends to be more anonymous.

Whatever the reason, Stokes has kept England in this test. But it's going to require another strong effort with the ball to keep the chase below 300. Hope they can catch better this time.

would have liked to have seen more time away today. the conditions for batting are by far and away the best today. weather looks like it will be tougher next couple of days. Australia will get a good spell of batting in the best conditions now and can get a decent lead

A couple of early wickets and who knows, momentum's a strange thing. But the onus isn't on Australia to make the running, they can play a bit more sensibly / sedately.

I will comment on those questions eirebilly and soul raised above at a later time.

For now ; hats off to another amazing Stokes innings

Singlehandedly bringing his team just about back in the game. 26 run deficit is nothing ...looked like being 80 or more. When he gets in that mood ...

Now obviously England now have to turn it on with the ball and bowl Australia out relatively cheaply. Might help if they hold some catches too

In the back of my mind I worry that even if they skittle them for 75 now they will still find a way to lose...but at least that little burst has kept the game alive for now.

We are lucky to have this fellow to watch

Excellent from Stokes and good support from Wood/Broad/Robinson to get that deficit down to a manageable total - but Aussies still well in control here. England down a frontline seamer in Robinson, Stokes is basically what 50% at best fit at this point, Woakes was struggling with cramp by the end of his spell yesterday, both Woakes/Wood bowling again quickly after coming in cold...and they have superb batting conditions.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Excellent from Stokes and good support from Wood/Broad/Robinson to get that deficit down to a manageable total - but Aussies still well in control here. England down a frontline seamer in Robinson, Stokes is basically what 50% at best fit at this point, Woakes was struggling with cramp by the end of his spell yesterday, both Woakes/Wood bowling again quickly after coming in cold...and they have superb batting conditions.

When you put it like that , Olly , it looks a bit dark !

But stand by for a Moeen five wicket haul ...

Now lets see if they can do better in the field this innings

alfie wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Excellent from Stokes and good support from Wood/Broad/Robinson to get that deficit down to a manageable total - but Aussies still well in control here. England down a frontline seamer in Robinson, Stokes is basically what 50% at best fit at this point, Woakes was struggling with cramp by the end of his spell yesterday, both Woakes/Wood bowling again quickly after coming in cold...and they have superb batting conditions.

When you put it like that , Olly , it looks a bit dark !

But stand by for a Moeen five wicket haul ...

well he certainly going to need to cover some overs. broads getting on, wood is a 4 over a spell at his best. woakes and ali going to be busy

It's a worry that if England don't do the damage early, then Australia might just run away into the distance. As mentioned, two bowlers down (I'm assuming Stokes can't bowl), plus they were in the field only yesterday, Broad's gone past 100 overs for the series etc.

And Broad gets Warner again! Very similar dismissal.

Unusually brisk start for Khawaja. A quick forty or fifty here would set England back on their heels...

Or ...a Broad gets his Bunny might give them a bit of a lift

Who is this player Warner b Broad at the top of the Aussie order?

Stokes and the bowlers did a good job with the bat to get the lead down to something approaching manageable, when it looked like things were going to go really wrong. Credit to WOod for changing the momentum.

Duty281 wrote:The main problem with Bazball has been these wickets. Bazball requires good batting tracks to work, but that plays right into Australia's hands and negates England's seam advantage. It's almost been like an away series, with the way the pitches have played.

I'm not sure England have that seam advantage anymore. Even a 'conditions based' advantage. Which is really worrying. In the previous home Ashes I felt that Cummins was the best bowler in either side overall but that Broad and Anderson (prior to injury) were his equal in English conditions. I honestly feel Cummins is the best bowler on show with the Dukes and English conditions here though.

Broad has been England's best bowler overall but I do feel there has been a slight decline from his peak. Harsh as that is to say when he's been our best bowler!

Jimmy bowled a good spell early on T2 D1 but without luck or reward. Other than that he was poor.

Robinson has everything to be a phenomenal Test bowler but looks back to being short of the fitness necessary for a professional athlete.

Wood was magnificent in the 1st innings but will only play 2 Tests being optimistic. Archer is crocked. Stone is crocked.

Woakes has returned really well, I would've picked him at Lords as said before T2.

Then there is Stokes not being an all-rounder anymore. Jimmy and Broad are magnificent cricketers without doubt. But a factor in their longevity has been that England could usually field genuine 4 man seam attacks. It's such a luxury. Due to Stokes having that impressive record in overs 40-80 and his ability to break partnerships we could have Jimmy and Broad simply 'bowl dry' when conditions didn't suit. It wasn't uncommon for their strike rates to be high but averages very low. Which is a skill that shouldn't be decried at all. England maintained a good home record with very poor batting resources in no small part through that skill. But it should be put in perspective. Which is that others were taking wickets at times they bowled with economies of 2 but less threat. One of the key men taking those wickets was also a top 5 batter. That isn't the case now due to Stokes' knee.

Seaming wickets would have brought England's bowlers into it more of course, but, also the Aussie attack. Which, sadly, just looks superior to me at moment. With greener wickets we would have had more bite with the new ball but I fear the Aussie top 4 would weather it better and when it flattened out, England would still be struggling as the ball softened. Whereas Australia would have equally more bite with the new ball, against a weak top 3, then more versatility in the latter overs and when it flattens out.

I'm not sure this is like if India with Ashwin, Jadeja and Axar gave Australia fast, seaming wickets for instance. It's a bit more like India with Kumble providing flat wickets against Australia with Warne or Sri Lanka with Murali.

The fielding remains the thing to make me the most angry. T1 was mostly lost to poor fielding rather than the declaration or multiple stumpings. Here, we could've bundled Australia for 150 and had a decent lead even with a rubbish batting performance. But again it was squandered.