The Ray Charles-Europe RnB Mix : Georgia; It' The Final Countdown

by jimbopip Wed 23 Aug 2023, 2:58 pm

I beat Tramptastic to it Yahoo

Team's oot!
Scotland: Ollie Smith, Darcy Graham, Huw Jones, Sione Tuipulotu, Duhan van der Merwe, Finn Russell, Ben White; Jamie Bhatti, Dave Cherry, WP Nel, Sam Skinner, Grant Gilchrist, Jamie Ritchie (capt), Rory Darge, Jack Dempsey.

Replacements: Ewan Ashman, Rory Sutherland, Javan Sebastian, Scott Cummings, Matt Fagerson, George Horne, Ben Healy, Chris Harris.

No real sign of a second string here. Wink

Immediate impressions....

A 5:3 split
White and Hornito getting to go head to head.
No Turner.
Shooey, Gray rested.
First choice back row.
Harris gets a shot from the bench.

A very strong side, with a few key forwards rested. That should keep the competition in the squad keen.

While I'm waiting for more measured responses...can I just say that the Boks and the Blackness battering each other at Twickers on Friday is absolutely bonkers.

by Oakdene Wed 23 Aug 2023, 3:03 pm

How has Javan gone on in a Scottish shirt this summer? Haven't had a chance to catch much of your games.

by Tramptastic Wed 23 Aug 2023, 3:35 pm

Ahhhh Jimbo my contact has gone dark this week! No idea whats happened!

As you say, almost full strength, Toonie clearly keen on giving key units more time together - pray Huwipulotu remain uninjured!

Still not sure if thats our first choice BR for South Africa - for most teams yes but i fancy Fagerson in at 6 with ritchie over to 7 for south africa. However, having Darge starting and being that bit quicker to the breakdown may be key to nullifying Kolisi/Marx et al

by **BigGee** Wed 23 Aug 2023, 3:42 pm

Oakdene wrote:How has Javan gone on in a Scottish shirt this summer? Haven't had a chance to catch much of your games.

I think we have all been pleasantly surprised at how well he has done, he has scrummed well enough and certainly did not look out of place against a pretty much first string French team in our second game against them. He also looks to have gotten pretty fit and was getting around the park, which is a given requirement in any Toonie team.

He should get a decent 30 mins against Georgia this weekend, who are no mugs at scrum time, so hopefully he continues to progress.

by Oakdene Wed 23 Aug 2023, 3:47 pm

BigGee wrote:
Oakdene wrote:How has Javan gone on in a Scottish shirt this summer? Haven't had a chance to catch much of your games.

I think we have all been pleasantly surprised at how well he has done, he has scrummed well enough and certainly did not look out of place against a pretty much first string French team in our second game against them. He also looks to have gotten pretty fit and was getting around the park, which is a given requirement in any Toonie team.

He should get a decent 30 mins against Georgia this weekend, who are no mugs at scrum time, so hopefully he continues to progress.

Thanks, he came from nowhere really for us down at Parc Y Scarlets & he certainly didn't look like a professional rugby player at first but he was always strong in the scrum.

He worked on his fitness & started to become a good carrier for us.

by jimbopip Wed 23 Aug 2023, 4:25 pm

Oakdene, Javan signed for Glasgow a while back but never really looked like troubling the match day 23. He then moved to the Scaaalets. In retrospect that was fantastic work from Toonie. Spot the potential, sign him, recognise he needs lots of game time but isn't good enough,yet, to play for Glasgow, send him back to the valleys BUT keep him on a short leash until he's ready.
At the time we all thought Glasgow had signed a dud and Toonie was just being Toonie.

by **RDW** Wed 23 Aug 2023, 10:31 pm

So Smith gets his shot. I still think Kinghorn is the better option at 15, but he would also be an ideal bench choice so if Smith puts in a screamer I don't mind him getting the shirt.

Tramp the mystery over who your mole is gets a new piece of information for us to ponder! Who could have been absent from this week's training to not hear the teamsheet...

by jimbopip Thu 24 Aug 2023, 8:24 am

Flounder, I think 9-14 will all start against the Boks. Smith is probably there to get a little more experience as the second back replacement spot will likely be between him and Seaman. I can't see the bench being anything other than a 6/2 split so it makes sense that Smith gets some time playing in that back line.

In the pack;

back row the four on Saturday should be in the 23 for the Boks.
fat boys Shooey-Turner-Ragnar will most likely start against the Boks and the two sets who are named for Saturday are probably auditioning for the bench places. Not much between either set this weekend.
big boys it'll be Richie and... for the Boks. I think The Principal will miss out and GG starts with Cummings to bench.

by **BigGee** Thu 24 Aug 2023, 8:45 am

Kinghorn had a slight injury after the French game and did not train last week.

Sounds like they are not taking any chances on him.

by TAFKA The Oracle Thu 24 Aug 2023, 11:12 am

jimbopip wrote:Oakdene, Javan signed for Glasgow a while back but never really looked like troubling the match day 23. He then moved to the Scaaalets. In retrospect that was fantastic work from Toonie. Spot the potential, sign him, recognise he needs lots of game time but isn't good enough,yet, to play for Glasgow, send him back to the valleys BUT keep him on a short leash until he's ready.
At the time we all thought Glasgow had signed a dud and Toonie was just being Toonie.

Llanelli is coastal!

Good to hear he's doing well. One that got away. I find it quite sad the number of players who don't seem great for Welsh clubs (at first) but seem to do really well elsewhere Sad

by Oakdene Thu 24 Aug 2023, 12:04 pm

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:
jimbopip wrote:Oakdene, Javan signed for Glasgow a while back but never really looked like troubling the match day 23. He then moved to the Scaaalets. In retrospect that was fantastic work from Toonie. Spot the potential, sign him, recognise he needs lots of game time but isn't good enough,yet, to play for Glasgow, send him back to the valleys BUT keep him on a short leash until he's ready.
At the time we all thought Glasgow had signed a dud and Toonie was just being Toonie.

Llanelli is coastal!

Good to hear he's doing well. One that got away. I find it quite sad the number of players who don't seem great for Welsh clubs (at first) but seem to do really well elsewhere

To be fair he wasn't in great shape fitness wise when he first trotted out for us but he got fitter, worked hard & stayed largely free on injuries.

by **George Carlin** Thu 24 Aug 2023, 12:51 pm

Incidentally, I don't remember seeing a Smith performance where I was blown away, so I'm hoping that it comes this weekend. Isn't there a concern that we want him to better than he is?

A bit like hoping Jim will never be confounded by the quotes function again. Genuinely aspirational, but we all recognise the lack of realism which underpins the desire.

by **BigGee** Thu 24 Aug 2023, 12:55 pm

He did an article in Scottish media recently saying when he came back from Scotland first time, he thought he was done with rugby. He ended up doing 12 hour shifts in a meat packing plant and completely hated it, a miserable experience

It refocused him and made him give rugby another crack.

Someone wbo appreciates being a professional sportsman!

Jamie Bhatti, one of our other props has a similar tale, he used to work in an abbotoir!

by Tramptastic Thu 24 Aug 2023, 1:49 pm

George Carlin wrote:Incidentally, I don't remember seeing a Smith performance where I was blown away, so I'm hoping that it comes this weekend. Isn't there a concern that we want him to better than he is?

A bit like hoping Jim will never be confounded by the quotes function again. Genuinely aspirational, but we all recognise the lack of realism which underpins the desire.

I think he was very good whilst in the U20s. Then everyone seemed surprised when McLean got selected ahead of him for a senior rugby contract (we all know how that horribleness ended up) but in terms of rugby McLean may have been more talented. I still think theres time for Smith and if he ends up being a safe option at 15 (see cover tackle on Villiere) thats no bad thing to have

by **RDW** Thu 24 Aug 2023, 1:52 pm

George Carlin wrote:Incidentally, I don't remember seeing a Smith performance where I was blown away, so I'm hoping that it comes this weekend. Isn't there a concern that we want him to better than he is?

A bit like hoping Jim will never be confounded by the quotes function again. Genuinely aspirational, but we all recognise the lack of realism which underpins the desire.

This.

And TBF he really should have a good game against Georgia as we really should win with a bit to spare. Whether that makes in a true international clas fullback time will tell!

by **BigGee** Thu 24 Aug 2023, 2:01 pm

I think you are all being a bit harsh on young Ollie.

I think he has been pretty solid so far in his Scotland caps. He scored a very good try against NZ last autumn and played well in both his recent starts agsingst Italy and made a match saving tackle against France.

He may not be bursting into the role like Hoggy did, but that is not a fair comparison. Let him grow into the role and he will continue to improve with the experience.

by funnyExiledScot Thu 24 Aug 2023, 2:40 pm

Smith is solid, but little more. He's a strong lad and hard to stop at full tilt, plus he's a brave tackler, but he's a 6.5-7/10 player at best. Fine for cover, but Kinghorn has a much higher ceiling.

by **NeilyBroon** Thu 24 Aug 2023, 9:53 pm

With Gee on this.

Think of the young players who took time to come good. I remember Bennett's debut and his impact was dropping the ball and generally underwhelming. Tuipolotu was solid but unspectacular prior to joining Huw at international level. Steyn looked very average until recently. George Horne looked out of depth against the big sides but played very well coming on against France a couple of weeks ago.

Give him a chance, I expect he will be a special player, he really looked another level at u20s, but it's hard when you come in with so many senior international players peaking around the globe!

by TJ Thu 24 Aug 2023, 10:51 pm

I am sure I have seen good outings from Ollie Smith. Looks a very good player to me.

by **George Carlin** Fri 25 Aug 2023, 7:56 am

NeilyBroon wrote:With Gee on this.

Think of the young players who took time to come good. I remember Bennett's debut and his impact was dropping the ball and generally underwhelming. Tuipolotu was solid but unspectacular prior to joining Huw at international level. Steyn looked very average until recently. George Horne looked out of depth against the big sides but played very well coming on against France a couple of weeks ago.

Give him a chance, I expect he will be a special player, he really looked another level at u20s, but it's hard when you come in with so many senior international players peaking around the globe!

Oh stop it Neilly. I can't launch into sweeping generalisations when confronted with annoying common sense like that.

Sheesh man. Think of your elders.

by **RDW** Fri 25 Aug 2023, 10:03 am

I think we're all on the same page here - he's no young Hoggy but very few people are. He may become a top class 15 but I just don't think he's there yet, and with the WC being 2 weeks away IMO Kinghorn is the first choice 15.

by **BigGee** Fri 25 Aug 2023, 10:30 am

RDW wrote:I think we're all on the same page here - he's no young Hoggy but very few people are. He may become a top class 15 but I just don't think he's there yet, and with the WC being 2 weeks away IMO Kinghorn is the first choice 15.

More importantly in Toonie's opinion as well, especially given his ability to also cover FH which makes a 6:2 split a realistic option should we want to go there.

I don't think Smith will let us down if we need him though and it will be good to see him start this weekend.

by **BigGee** Fri 25 Aug 2023, 3:01 pm

I see Darcy gas pulled out of tomorrow game with a quad injury. Hopefully it is just a precaution

The Steyn of Destiny takes his place

by jimbopip Fri 25 Aug 2023, 5:20 pm

George Carlin wrote:Incidentally, I don't remember seeing a Smith performance where I was blown away, so I'm hoping that it comes this weekend. Isn't there a concern that we want him to better than he is?
[i]Actually GC, young Smith outshone Titman in the under 20's but endured a torrid start to his Glasgow career. Being replacedwhen a front row was carded, being carded himself, getting injured all in rapid succession. Many youngsterswouldhave been rattled. Fes says he's big and fast and difficult to stop...As with his inability to grasp the intricacies of a caring welfare state, Smith is fast but is a very evasive runner. He has a step and a swerve and almost always beats the first defender. He looks like he could be special. If he had played for Ayr he would be world class already./i]

A bit like hoping Jim will never confound the quotes function again. Genuinely inspirational in everything he does from Etruscan reiki to his unpaid work as an international peacekeeper we all recognise the lack of dogmatism which underpins his desire to raiset he rest of us to his standards.

by bsando Fri 25 Aug 2023, 7:08 pm

jeez it took me while to find this thread Jimbo! (where the heck is everyone??)

Hope we get a good crowd at murrayfield tomorrow to help send off the team. Might be the last game playing there for some of these players.

No injuries please!

Also, Rugbypass have an app now that has a lot of good videos on it. Portugal's journey to the RWC is a good watch, I'm excited to see the play. Their captain is a Dentist

by jimbopip Fri 25 Aug 2023, 7:12 pm

The Painless Portugese?

by **BigGee** Fri 25 Aug 2023, 7:20 pm

When SA play at home 3 Zulu Warriors usually come out on the pitch before them. Lots of roaring and speer thrusting ensues.

The lead warrior is an absolute unit who would scare you even without his speer. Apparently he is also a dentist in real life, he looks like he could pull teeth out with his fingers!

by formerly known as Sam Fri 25 Aug 2023, 8:37 pm

New Zealand's discipline is woeful. They were lucky to only get the three cards in the first half. France will be looking forward to that opening game at this rate.

by TheMildlyFranticLlama Fri 25 Aug 2023, 8:59 pm

jimbopip wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Incidentally, I don't remember seeing a Smith performance where I was blown away, so I'm hoping that it comes this weekend. Isn't there a concern that we want him to better than he is?
[i]Actually GC, young Smith outshone Titman in the under 20's but endured a torrid start to his Glasgow career. Being replacedwhen a front row was carded, being carded himself, getting injured all in rapid succession. Many youngsterswouldhave been rattled. Fes says he's big and fast and difficult to stop...As with his inability to grasp the intricacies of a caring welfare state, Smith is fast but is a very evasive runner. He has a step and a swerve and almost always beats the first defender. He looks like he could be special. If he had played for Ayr he would be world class already./i]

A bit like hoping Jim will never confound the quotes function again. Genuinely inspirational in everything he does from Etruscan reiki to his unpaid work as an international peacekeeper we all recognise the lack of dogmatism which underpins his desire to raiset he rest of us to his standards.

Whatever this was, I approve clap

by **George Carlin** Sat 26 Aug 2023, 8:09 am

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:
jimbopip wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Incidentally, I don't remember seeing a Smith performance where I was blown away, so I'm hoping that it comes this weekend. Isn't there a concern that we want him to better than he is?
[i]Actually GC, young Smith outshone Titman in the under 20's but endured a torrid start to his Glasgow career. Being replacedwhen a front row was carded, being carded himself, getting injured all in rapid succession. Many youngsterswouldhave been rattled. Fes says he's big and fast and difficult to stop...As with his inability to grasp the intricacies of a caring welfare state, Smith is fast but is a very evasive runner. He has a step and a swerve and almost always beats the first defender. He looks like he could be special. If he had played for Ayr he would be world class already./i]

A bit like hoping Jim will never confound the quotes function again. Genuinely inspirational in everything he does from Etruscan reiki to his unpaid work as an international peacekeeper we all recognise the lack of dogmatism which underpins his desire to raiset he rest of us to his standards.

Whatever this was, I approve

For it, it's the spelling mistake in a last line about 'raising standards' which makes this comedy platinum.

by jimbopip Sat 26 Aug 2023, 8:13 am

You guys

Anyhoo, Toonie will have had the mother of all sleepless nights last night.

"Seven one split on the bench!!! Four scrum halves in the squad!!!! It's chassis utter chassis."

by doctor_grey Sat 26 Aug 2023, 2:56 pm

Georgia, eh? You have got to dig deeper than Ray Charles. That's a gimmee, like a two foot putt in golf - even I can sink that once I get past the windmill.

Try this, although a bit obscure these days, especially here in His Majesty's Blessed Realm...
https://youtu.be/PvpsquT3eOQ

by jimbopip Sat 26 Aug 2023, 4:36 pm

Jimbo missed the boat the day he led the pack.
But that was all he missed: he ain't in the backs.

by jimbopip Sat 26 Aug 2023, 4:38 pm

On a rugby note: I'd select Ollie Smith over Freddie Steward every time.

by doctor_grey Sat 26 Aug 2023, 5:22 pm

jimbopip wrote:On a rugby note: I'd select Ollie Smith over Freddie Steward every time.

Why spoil the day and bring up Rugby (even more so from an England stand point)?

by jimbopip Sat 26 Aug 2023, 6:11 pm

Scotland are making Georgia look like Fiji.

by bsando Sat 26 Aug 2023, 6:17 pm

Why are we playing like we did when Toonie just got the Scotland job? Georgian defence has been very good, this is a great test but I hope we don’t play like this against the Boks.

by **George Carlin** Sat 26 Aug 2023, 6:32 pm

Tom English put the boot in already on the BBC live feed, saying that it looks like nobody wants to be out there and they're giving every impression of a group of men trying to pass the time without getting injured.

by tigertattie Sat 26 Aug 2023, 6:46 pm

How utterly Finn Russell is Finn Russell when he gets a bag of sweeties when he comes off if he’s played well laughing

by TJ Sat 26 Aug 2023, 7:02 pm

Have Scotland been trying out tactics to use against SA? Playing at speed, trying to move 'em around the park to tire them out and avoiding the big men in the middle?

by **NeilyBroon** Sat 26 Aug 2023, 7:14 pm

Dempsey should have got MoM definitely the most consistent performer for 80 mins

by tigertattie Sat 26 Aug 2023, 7:25 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:Dempsey should have got MoM definitely the most consistent performer for 80 mins

Duhan was Immense again though. Carries, meters made, defenders beaten. Obscene numbers

by bsando Sat 26 Aug 2023, 7:29 pm

Job done! That was a good, physical test match

by **NeilyBroon** Sat 26 Aug 2023, 7:32 pm

tigertattie wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:Dempsey should have got MoM definitely the most consistent performer for 80 mins

Duhan was Immense again though. Carries, meters made, defenders beaten. Obscene numbers

Ah but I think it was more the forwards that got us back on to the front foot. Not saying duhan had a bad game I just think Dempsey showed up when everyone else was trying to just fling it everywhere!

by **RDW** Sun 27 Aug 2023, 12:58 am

Again I just watched highlights of the first half then the full second half, so didn't get a full sense of how bad the first was, but that was a decent performance in the end.

Scotland had several gears to go up and they very much did so in the second half, and Georgia had no answer. There's certainly still a large gulf between the teams.

In terms of individuals I agree that Dempsey was outstanding. He's putting in top performances but also seems to be a leader in the pack and holds players to account on the pitch. There's no doubt he's our starting 8.

Healy also brought a different dimension to the team when he came on with his kicking game and his siege gun boot. He may miss out on the 23 but looks to be a fixture to come for many years.

Skinner put in a decent shift with a few lineout steals and getting involved in the carry. He'll definitely feature on the bench against SA.

One thing to note is I'd like to see.nore from Ritchie. I'm sure he's doing a lot of grunt work but you're not seeing the ruck disruption or turnovers that you need from him. I still think he needs to communicate with the refs better too - he gets their back up.

by **BigGee** Sun 27 Aug 2023, 8:10 am

Yet another game of two halves and a comfortable win in the end sgsjbst a Georgian team definitely up for the challenge.

A few players worthy of mentions in despatches, particularly those off the bench.

Chris Harris probably the pick of the subs for me with Matt Fagerson not far behind.

Healy has already been mentioned and I though Javen Sebastian had another pretty decent cameo.

Ashman also played a lot better this week threw well and was rampaging jn the loose. I think he may well have played himself onto the bench with that performance.

Oh and I thought Ollie Smith play a very tidy game as well.

by **RDW** Sun 27 Aug 2023, 8:13 am

Harris actually looked an attacking threat surprisingly, but also made a poor choice on not getting the ball to Horne in support.

Did show there's life in the old dog yet through!

by **BigGee** Sun 27 Aug 2023, 8:18 am

RDW wrote:Harris actually looked an attacking threat surprisingly, but also made a poor choice on not getting the ball to Horne in support.

Did show there's life in the old dog yet through!

I think The Georgian defender had the passing line covered to Horne. Harris certainly was lookkng for a runner but then deceided to put his head down and go.

A big powerful centre who can break tackles, you see him do that a lot for Gloucester.

He may have played himself onto the bench as well!

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