The 2023 Cricket World Cup

by Duty281 Mon 18 Sep 2023, 1:09 pm

First topic message reminder :

After the drama-free finish to the 2019 Cricket World Cup, the 2023 Cricket World Cup will finally get under way on the 5th October, having been initially delayed by Covid and then threatened by a Pakistani boycott.

England are the defending champions, and they're also the reigning T20 World Champions. Doubleplusgood, eh? They're looking to be the first nation to win consecutive ODI World Cups since the Aussie vintage of 1999-2007. Biggest adversaries to that are likely to be India, who haven't won a major global competition since the 2013 Champions Trophy, but will no doubt be heartened by the knowledge that the last three ODI World Cups have been won by a host nation.

Five-time winners Australia can never be ruled out, while Pakistan are fueled by a burning motivation to win the World Cup in the homeland of their greatest rivals. New Zealand have made the last two finals - losing the last on boundary count, would you believe? - and will hope to make the final step this year.

South Africa will presumably think they're due to win something, as they've not won a global competition since the 1998 Champions Trophy, while the Afghans will believe they can spin anyone into submission. Bangladesh will be hoping to make a sizable impact at the ODI World Cup for the first time.

Sri Lanka breezed through qualifying and will be encouraged by making the recent Asia Cup final, even if they did get hammered in said final. The Netherlands round off the ten teams after performing minor miracles in qualification, which of course means the West Indies, the winners of the first two ODI World Cups, will be missing out on this tournament for the very first time.

The ten-team format for the World Cup remains as simple as ever. Ten teams all play each other once, and the top four teams in the group at the end of it go through to the semi-finals, where it becomes a straight knockout. 48 matches total. There will be reserve days for the three knockout matches and, if necessary, Super Overs. But you can't win games on boundary count anymore...

Fixtures:

Tournament Odds:

Squad Lists (Teams have until the 28th September to finalise their squads):

by wisden Sun 15 Oct 2023, 3:49 pm

50 for brook

by alfie Sun 15 Oct 2023, 4:00 pm

Oh dear... Curran next to go and it is getting into "miracle needed" territory. And Stokes isn't on hand to provide one...

I held few hopes for England at this WC but did at least expect them to be competitive with a few other sides for the knock outs places : am afraid those expectations have diminished already. Suppose the evident fallibility of Australia and Pakistan means all hope isn't extinguished yet ...but it ain't looking good.

Don't like to desert a sinking ship but the Rugby QF beckons...maybe Brook will be safer without me watching Smile

by No name Bertie Sun 15 Oct 2023, 4:25 pm

Normally I would be supporting England but given that Afghanistan are such rank outsiders and have got themselves into a great position and that Afghanistan is a war torn chaotic state with recent earthquakes killing thousands and making things even worse - well I am supporting Afghanistan at this moment.

by eirebilly_01 Sun 15 Oct 2023, 4:31 pm

Similar to alfie, I am watching the rugby now and have cricket on cricinfo.

Gutted about Ireland going out last night so hoping England go through.

This has been a poor CWC so far for England and it will be a matter of who is worse between them and Pakistan for the semi final spot for me, if they even get into that position. Really missing a Roy/Hales/Vince type opener with Bairstow.

by GSC Sun 15 Oct 2023, 4:33 pm

Brook out and that's probably that.

by alfie Sun 15 Oct 2023, 4:52 pm

HT in the rugby and I come back to see they are still (just) afloat through Rashid and Wood...an unlikely batting combination ! Not going to get another 88 though...

and indeed there goes Rashid and this is going to be a very easy win for Afghanistan. England have been totally outplayed and I will be very surprised if they make the knock outs after this.

Very disappointing day for a white ball team which just might think they are a bit better than they actually are...

by **Galted** Sun 15 Oct 2023, 5:00 pm

It was closer than I thought it would be.

by Duty281 Sun 15 Oct 2023, 5:00 pm

Yep, it's all over. Thought Afghanistan might take a big scalp in this tournament with that bowling attack, just a shame it happens to be England. And a bowling attack which hasn't shown much form thus far suddenly finds it.

It's the first real upset of the competition and leaves England on the brink. 1-2 record, need to find five wins from six games (four wins may be enough, but probably not), with South Africa/Sri Lanka/India/Australia/Netherlands/Pakistan all to play.

This is a more perilous position than 2019, ultimately, with arguably a worse team. The batting is misfiring. Malan is obviously superb, and Root has his form back, but Bairstow/Buttler/Livingstone are all struggling at the moment, which presents an issue; and the quick bowling has even bigger problems, particularly Woakes and Curran.

Have to beat South Africa next week, or England can be virtually counted out. If South Africa do beat England, that might present even more problems for the competition as the identity of the four semi-finalists would be known (99% chance) with three weeks or so left in the group phase.

But that's for another week. Well done Afghanistan. clap

by eirebilly_01 Sun 15 Oct 2023, 5:02 pm

No disrespect to Afghanistan but England really should be beating them comfortably. A very good win and they outplayed England in all aspects.

England will need some turn around in performances to have any hope of getting to the knock outs. Must beat South Africa and India.

by KP_fan Sun 15 Oct 2023, 5:24 pm

There are many who were wishing for an exciting Game to light-up the world cup
Well Be Careful What your Wish For.....Wish came true at Eng's cost.

This is why Afg excites pure cricket lovers ....they know Afg have the game to upset biggest sides when their stars are somewhat aligned....i.e some runs on board, defending a total and some assistance in the pitch for spin.

Their weakest suit batting got to strongest start.....committed harakiri thru run out ...but the WK & lower order got them to what was a good total under the conditions

And then everyone realized BCCI has left much more assistance in this pitch for the spinners then seen in Delhi in the last 3 games....although not a crumbler by any means.

No side has 2 mystery spinners...of this quality...and Mujeeb redeemed his length today ( was too short vs Indian)..... his deception of Root was a psychological blow to Eng.....Root the subcontinent expert, giant vs spinners decieved and bowled neck and crop. That's where Afg started gaining mental ascendancy.

And that over from him .....would go down in the legend at par with Donald to Artherton, Amrose to Waugh jr, Holding to Bryan Close and Flintoff to someone ( Kallis?)
beaten every delivery and decived totally clean bowled...Woakes.

Rashid khan did his stuff efficiently and Nabi showed the booming spin that this pitch offered....8 wkst had fallen to 25 overs of spin for 100 odd runs
The seamers had decent pace 141kph for Fazal aand 135ks for Navin.....did their part....and the current World Champions in both white ball formats had fallen.

I didn't see the first inning except last 8 overs.......thought the figures of Adil & Liam and what I saw of Afg spinners suggested...Eng needed to bowl more spin overs......Moeen would have been great, but even otherwise Root should have bowled 4 or 5 more overs.

Eng are left with 1 win against the Bottom-4 out of 3 games and afg rise to be the top of bottom-4.....dunno why they chose to bowl first.....that only checks a box in making up Afg's perfect scenarios.
Afg are nowhere the same team chasing

by guildfordbat Sun 15 Oct 2023, 6:12 pm

eirebilly_01 wrote:Similar to alfie, I am watching the rugby now and have cricket on cricinfo.

Gutted about Ireland going out last night so hoping England go through.

This has been a poor CWC so far for and it will be a matter of who is worse between them and Pakistan for the semi final spot for me, if they even get into that position. Really missing a Roy/Hales/Vince type opener with Bairstow.

Hi Billy - today’s result might just perk up Australia and provide them the chance of a semi-final spot.

by KP_fan Sun 15 Oct 2023, 7:45 pm

Duty281 wrote:

It's the first real upset of the competition and leaves England on the brink. 1-2 record, need to find five wins from six games (four wins may be enough, but probably not), with South Africa/Sri Lanka/India/Australia/Netherlands/Pakistan all to play.

This is a more perilous position than 2019, ultimately, with arguably a worse team.

On a scale of 0 to 10 for assistance offered by pitch to spinners....todays was a 5/10 while what Aus had vs Ind was a 7/10
In the Ind game Eng can expect the 7/10 pitch and depending on how big a threat BCCI sees Eng, they might "arrange" a 6/10 pitch assisting spinners in the game vs Lanka, who have 4 spinning options and the least of them is like Mohd Nabi.
You are right It's not an easy position that Eng find themselves in.

by alfie Mon 16 Oct 2023, 4:28 am

Obviously a huge setback for England. They really haven't looked good apart from a couple of partnerships and some good bowling against Bangladesh.

As for possible knockout qualification though far too early to tell. Suspect there may be another upset or two from the minnows so it is entirely possible for , say , the top three teams to get 21/22 wins between them , the bottom four another 8/9 : so leaving 15 to be shared between the "middle three". In other words , 5 wins and a good -or less bad - NRR might be enough for 4th place.

Of course I am not sure whether either England or Australia actually qualify as one of the "middle three" on present form Smile

by GSC Mon 16 Oct 2023, 9:30 am

Long way to go yet and if England can get themselves into shape they can still save themselves at the end of the group stage, much like 2019. But that team had Roy coming back in to give England a dominant top order. Not sure where that's coming from this time. Perhaps Stokes but not sure anyone is quite sure when/if his knee is going to allow him to play. And then there's the issue of Woakes' form and Curran's been somewhat ineffective.

Still another 6 games to come over the next month but needing to win at least 3 from Aus, India, Pakistan, SA seems a tall order at the moment

by GSC Mon 16 Oct 2023, 9:38 am

Aside from that he hit it and it was missing the stumps that was a pretty good review

by GSC Mon 16 Oct 2023, 10:25 am

Good powerplay from SL.

After wasting a review early Australia now have to turn down a marginal looking one that would've been out.

by alfie Mon 16 Oct 2023, 10:33 am

Sri Lanka ticking along rather nicely so far 70/0 off 13. Suppose making runs hasn't been their problem ... the bowling is what lets them down. Reckon they will need a very big score to rattle Australia - though given the way the Aussies have been struggling , who knows ?

by Duty281 Mon 16 Oct 2023, 10:42 am

If there's a team for Australia's out of form batsmen to find their form against then it's this Sri Lankan bowling line up.

But they might be under some pressure after this Sri Lankan start! I see Australia have already messed up their reviews (both ways).

If Australia do lose here then it really is good night to their chances.

by GSC Mon 16 Oct 2023, 11:41 am

Cummins has dragged Australia back into it, but SL still have a very good platform albeit with two new batsmen now. Need to be well over 300 from here I think

by Joshua0 Mon 16 Oct 2023, 11:46 am

They probably need to reach for 350, although even that might not be enough. Then again I'm not 100% sure with how poor Australia's batting has been.

Wow that outfield was dangerous.

by GSC Mon 16 Oct 2023, 11:51 am

Yeah conditions at some of these games haven't been great. Zampa chipping out another one

by GSC Mon 16 Oct 2023, 11:57 am

Hope Warner's ok after that. Was only a matter of time before someone got hurt in the outfield sadly

by Joshua0 Mon 16 Oct 2023, 12:14 pm

Unexpected rain. Covers were a bit slow coming on.

I think this is the first rain of the World Cup?

by GSC Mon 16 Oct 2023, 12:27 pm

Might help SL regroup. 4 wickets in fairly quick succession turned a promising platform into a pretty even game

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Mon 16 Oct 2023, 12:58 pm

Away all weekend so missed the games - good to see England take on the role of morality for the spirit of the game and tournament, and try to spice up the group stages a bit again, just like we did in 2015 and 2019. Whistle

by GSC Mon 16 Oct 2023, 1:04 pm

GSC wrote:Might help SL regroup. 4 wickets in fairly quick succession turned a promising platform into a pretty even game

Nope they've collapsed...

by Joshua0 Mon 16 Oct 2023, 1:05 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Away all weekend so missed the games - good to see England take on the role of morality for the spirit of the game and tournament, and try to spice up the group stages a bit again, just like we did in 2015 and 2019.

And 2011, when it felt like every England game was off-the-walls fun.

by GSC Mon 16 Oct 2023, 1:16 pm

125-0 and 157-1 to 199-8. Pretty impressive

by alfie Mon 16 Oct 2023, 1:19 pm

Total collapse by Sri Lanka...all that great start gone for nothing as they are barely topping 200 , and eight down now.

Even with the dodgy batting Australia have been producing lately , this chase should be a breeze.

by GSC Mon 16 Oct 2023, 1:34 pm

At least the outfield is safer than the stands

The ICC would still rate it good

by GSC Mon 16 Oct 2023, 1:37 pm

A nice way for Australia to relieve the pressure after two losses with SL losing their last 9 wickets for 52 runs. Should be a pretty routine chase provided the stand doesn't fall over

by Joshua0 Mon 16 Oct 2023, 1:38 pm

209ao. Quite a collapse, and Australia should be pleased to have heavily limited a side that put 300+ on the board in both their previous games. A chance for some Australians to find form with the bat ahead of the game with Pakistan on Friday.

But remember, Australia haven't scored 200 at this tournament yet....

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Mon 16 Oct 2023, 2:02 pm

Joshua0 wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Away all weekend so missed the games - good to see England take on the role of morality for the spirit of the game and tournament, and try to spice up the group stages a bit again, just like we did in 2015 and 2019.

And 2011, when it felt like every England game was off-the-walls fun.

The team of the people

by Duty281 Mon 16 Oct 2023, 2:07 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Joshua0 wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Away all weekend so missed the games - good to see England take on the role of morality for the spirit of the game and tournament, and try to spice up the group stages a bit again, just like we did in 2015 and 2019.

And 2011, when it felt like every England game was off-the-walls fun.

The team of the people

And, shockingly, no one likes us.

by Duty281 Mon 16 Oct 2023, 2:08 pm

GSC wrote:A nice way for Australia to relieve the pressure after two losses with SL losing their last 9 wickets for 52 runs. Should be a pretty routine chase provided the stand doesn't fall over

Apparently play has been delayed for that reason.

by king_carlos Mon 16 Oct 2023, 2:10 pm

A spectacular collapse from Sri Lanka there.

Sorry to pivot back to yesterday's game but I was having a rugby weekend as a sports fan, so I saw a fair bit of England subsiding to a very good Afghanistan performance but I haven't commented.

The bowling is a huge concern. Woakes falling apart has taken away the consistency in the PP bowling. Jof being injured takes away an elite PP, death and middle overs option. Surran should be our best death option but doesn't look like bowling 10 overs across an ODI currently. It's a massive issue.

I'm not certain that Willey is the answer either. He's a good PP bowler but another who might struggle to fit his overs in elsewhere. He's also not the sort of bowler shining in this tournament either.

That leaves Atkinson. He has talent in all three phases. He has pace. He also has no experience and his white ball pedigree coming from T20 means he hasn't done the middle overs job before. With his pace he should be able to do that job. It would be a gamble though.

My instinct, as said previously, is to back the batting strength. Stokes coming in for Surran and Livi at 7. It leaves the bowling short but it looks that way as is. For me, it's then a shootout between Woakes and Atkinson for the bowling spot. Despite how poor he's been I think I'd back Woakes against the Proteas.

The glimmer of hope is that one of Pakistan, England and Oz will likely qualify for the semis. All three aren't looking great. That given, we may see a side with 5 wins qualify on NRR.

England need to be targeting 5 wins from 6 though. I think there best chance of doing that is stacking the top 7 and backing themselves to go harder with the bat.

by GSC Mon 16 Oct 2023, 2:10 pm

When they get on Australia might want to get on with it in case rain keeps coming back

by Duty281 Mon 16 Oct 2023, 2:23 pm

Yes, there is apparently a big band of rain on the way to Lucknow, as well as that strong wind which is churning up dust and exposing a rickety stand.

Could be the first NR of the World Cup, and it wouldn't be a good point for Australia.

by GSC Mon 16 Oct 2023, 2:34 pm

15 off the first, might not be here for a long time

by GSC Mon 16 Oct 2023, 2:40 pm

"The BCCI did a great job not selling tickets for these games so that when bits of their stadiums start falling from the sky spectators can flee to other, empty bits of the stands. Genius planning"

I enjoyed it from twitter

by Duty281 Mon 16 Oct 2023, 2:43 pm

You enjoyed that, but David Warner didn't enjoy that LBW call.

by GSC Mon 16 Oct 2023, 2:43 pm

Gutted

by GSC Mon 16 Oct 2023, 2:49 pm

Australia about to start delaying for the rain

by GSC Mon 16 Oct 2023, 3:05 pm

Spin the roulette on who will bowl opposite Mandushanka next over

by Duty281 Mon 16 Oct 2023, 3:42 pm

king_carlos wrote:A spectacular collapse from Sri Lanka there.

Sorry to pivot back to yesterday's game but I was having a rugby weekend as a sports fan, so I saw a fair bit of England subsiding to a very good Afghanistan performance but I haven't commented.

The bowling is a huge concern. Woakes falling apart has taken away the consistency in the PP bowling. Jof being injured takes away an elite PP, death and middle overs option. Surran should be our best death option but doesn't look like bowling 10 overs across an ODI currently. It's a massive issue.

I'm not certain that Willey is the answer either. He's a good PP bowler but another who might struggle to fit his overs in elsewhere. He's also not the sort of bowler shining in this tournament either.

That leaves Atkinson. He has talent in all three phases. He has pace. He also has no experience and his white ball pedigree coming from T20 means he hasn't done the middle overs job before. With his pace he should be able to do that job. It would be a gamble though.

My instinct, as said previously, is to back the batting strength. Stokes coming in for Surran and Livi at 7. It leaves the bowling short but it looks that way as is. For me, it's then a shootout between Woakes and Atkinson for the bowling spot. Despite how poor he's been I think I'd back Woakes against the Proteas.

The glimmer of hope is that one of Pakistan, England and Oz will likely qualify for the semis. All three aren't looking great. That given, we may see a side with 5 wins qualify on NRR.

England need to be targeting 5 wins from 6 though. I think there best chance of doing that is stacking the top 7 and backing themselves to go harder with the bat.

I'd probably agree with you now on the balance of the team. It just isn't working from either Woakes or Curran and I wouldn't play either one against South Africa, but might reintroduce one or both for the game v Sri Lanka. They have near identical tournament figures:

Woakes 18-0-135-2 and Curran 17.2-2-140-2.

For South Africa I'd get Stokes and Willey or Atkinson in for Curran and Woakes (mild preference for Atkinson). Stokes coming back from a lay-off is also another reason to strengthen the batting length.

England's NRR is currently the best of the teams outside the top three, but there's obviously going to be a lot of change before we reach the end.

England's run of fixtures is South Africa-Sri Lanka-India-Australia-Netherlands-Pakistan. It's within England's capabilities to get five wins from that run of fixtures, but currently their form is well below the potential.

by GSC Mon 16 Oct 2023, 4:01 pm

We'll have a result today in any case and it looks fairly clear where it's going. Just not nearly enough runs to bowl at

by Duty281 Mon 16 Oct 2023, 4:40 pm

Yeah, it's a bit of a cruise now and some good time in the middle for some of the Australians. Keeps them alive in the World Cup and looking like getting a boost to the old NRR.

Two interesting games in the fourth round of fixtures - Australia v Pakistan (Friday) and South Africa v England (Saturday). Both are pretty much must-win games for Australia and England, and if they can both triumph then the semi-final battle is very open. If, however, Pakistan and South Africa are the winners, then I'd say the semi-final race is pretty much a closed shop.

The third round of games ends tomorrow with South Africa v Netherlands. The Dutch looking to emulate what they did in the T20 format last year, while the powerful SA batting line-up (739 in 100 overs) try to continue their form and go 3/3. From an England point of view a Dutch upset would be very welcome.

Virtually secure - New Zealand + India
Good progress - South Africa, Pakistan
In the hunt -
On life support - Australia, Bangladesh, England
Brown bread - Sri Lanka, Afghanistan, Netherlands

by GSC Mon 16 Oct 2023, 4:50 pm

Maxwell has evening plans

by KP_fan Mon 16 Oct 2023, 8:49 pm

As I see the standing now

1. Ind ( 2 wins against tops team + 1 win against bottom team)
2. NZ ( 1 win against top team+ 2 win against bottom team)
3. SA ( 1 win against top team + 1 win against bottom team) it will stay same even when they beat Ned
4. Pak ( 2 wins against bottom team and 1 defeat against top team)
5. Aus ( 1 win against bottom team but 2 defeats are top team)
6. Eng ( 1 win against bottom team & 1 of 2 defeats is to a bottom team)
7. Afg ( 1 win against top team & 1 of 2 defeats to bottom team)

technically Afg would rank higher than Eng but we know they don't have the legs to go much further

couldn't watch the Aus game but did well today to pull SL back..and did well with the bat
they showed their template of useful batters making 20s and 30s and 40s down to no. 9 and nos 10 & 11 who can hold the bat for 10 odd runs will be their way of getting runs

They really need to get Smith or Labuchagne to do some spin bowling ......give the nature of pitches

by alfie Tue 17 Oct 2023, 1:42 am

Some relief for Australia to get points on the board... Maybe not altogether dramatic improvement given the limited opposition but they did come back well from an early hammering in the field - and the batsmen got the job done despite some early setbacks. Pakistan will be a bigger test.

As for England , selection is a problem now , arguably made worse by failure to look at alternatives against Afghanistan. If he's fit , Stokes must return (talisman effect as well as badly needed lift to the very disappointing batting) ; but his "batsman only" current status automatically unbalances the side.
I do agree lengthening the batting is essential ; but if he replaces Curran - or Woakes - then we are looking at just three seam bowlers plus Rashid and relying on Livingstone/Root for ten overs with no spare options if a pace man has a shocker. I know Livingstone bowled well against Afghanistan but I'm not sure I totally trust him for a full spell if the pitch doesn't offer much against SA. Moeen is an alternative but when does he bowl ten these days ? I'd like to have seen more of Root in these early games as I think he may need to do a fair bit of work with the ball if England go forward batting heavy.

Bairstow. Malan. Root. Stokes. Brook. Buttler. Livingstone/Moeen. Rashid. Wood. Willey. Topley. ? That for the SA game perhaps and see how it plays ? Can't see any way to get a perfect balance from this squad...

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