Ulster 2023/2024 Season

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For the good, the bad and the ugly of Ulster rugby this season. Lets hope mostly good.

Every time I discount Ulster's chances with a strong degree of certainty they go and do what they did on Saturday night. I will be discounting their chances heavily before every game for now on to see if it works.

But hasn’t this always been Ulster’s problem? And an infuriating one. Putting on display for their loyal fans all too often a show of what they are capable of, and yet then, not replicating it consistently through the entire course of a season.

Look, it was nice to watch. For a change. But as a fan, I’ll never be happy until we can do something about the mediocre performances that too often derail our chances each season.

It does raise the question why can't we play that way every week? Why is it we seem to need a reason to raise our game?
Is it the coaching team, the players themselves?
It's blooming frustrating when you see what they are capable of both physically and mentally, then a week later you seem the same players play like they have no idea

It's a head scratcher for sure. What does it take to lift the team performance like that. Granted it wasn't Racing's best performance but as the old saying goes, you can only play what's in front of you.
I can only state the obvious that we need our units working well for the entire machine to function and the resurgence of the McCloskey / Hume partnership is one of the most instrumental. Hume is hitting the kind of form we've missed and with both centres performing like that the entire game plan flows much more effectively. Cooney and Burns show another example of a unit that needs to purr, with Doak it doesn't. Herring seems to be the part of the front row that misses something when Stewart plays, Herring has improved in the last 18 months to surely being now nailed on as Ireland's 2nd choice Hooker.
Obviously there's more to it than that but with Dan's rotation policy this year how often will we get those units of best fit playing on the same matchday squad. The Connacht game at the weekend might be more of a yardstick to measure Ulster's worth than what occurred at the weekend. The season needs the full squad performing, not just that particular match day 23.

Almost felt bad for Munster losing Snyman to Leinster. Until I remembered we lost BJ Botha to Munster!

clivemcl wrote:Almost felt bad for Munster losing Snyman to Leinster. Until I remembered we lost BJ Botha to Munster!

You aren't allowed to feel sorry for other provinces on this thread anyway Clive

I did feel an initial tiny bit of sympathy but it washed very quickly away when I remembered they had already got Jager on a silver platter. I'd love a quality player provided to Ulster in a position of need. Perhaps there are too many positions to choose from mind you

Any whispers or rumours about signings for us?
Joey Carberry has the injury profile of someone we would sign.

carpet baboon wrote:Any whispers or rumours about signings for us?
Joey Carberry has the injury profile of someone we would sign.

To be honest I think we may have dodged a bullet with Snyman. Given our luck he would have fallen over in the shower and done long term damage to his back or something.

I don't think Carberry is a big enough step up from Burns to be honest, particularly given his injury history. Burns may looked crocked every game (when was the last game the clock wasn't stopped for him to be strapped up somewhere?), but he generally turns out (a bit too frequently in my opinion if we are going to find out/develop Flannery).

Team out:
(15-9) Mike Lowry, Rob Baloucoune, James Hume, Stuart McCloskey, Jacob Stockdale, Jake Flannery, John Cooney;

(1-8) Andy Warwick, Tom Stewart, Marty Moore, Kieran Treadwell, Iain Henderson (C), Matty Rea, Sean Reffell, Nick Timoney.

Replacements: John Andrew, Steven Kitshoff, Tom O’Toole, Al O’Connor, Dave Ewers, Nathan Doak, Jude Postlethwaite, Will Addison.

One of the commentators described last night as "unconvincing", and I can't come up with anything better. It wasn't all terrible, but the few glimpses of free flowing attack don't outweigh the rest. I think the performance against Racing was slightly better, but in my view they beat themselves with the number of mistakes they made rather than Ulster beating them. The glass remains half empty, and cloudy.

Teams up:
Ulster: Addison, Baloucoune, Marshall, McCloskey, Stockdale, Burns, Cooney, Kitshoff, Herring, O'Toole, Treadwell, Henderson, Rea, Reffell, Timoney.

Replacements: Stewart, Warwick, Wilson, O'Connor, Ewers, Doak, Lowry, Postlethwaite.

Leinster: J O'Brien, T O'Brien, Turner, Henshaw, Russell, Prendergast, Gibson-Park, Healy, Sheehan, Clarkson, Jenkins, Ryan, Baird, Connors, Caelan Doris.

Replacements: Barron, Boyle, Ala'alatoa, McCarthy, Conan, McGrath, Byrne, van der Flier.

I'll just skip over the very obvious glee we surely all feel at beating Leinster at home and cut to the chase...

What is wrong with our line out? Both our hookers are Ireland squad. In Treadwell and Henry, we have international jumpers.
What gives?

As a back, I just don't know enough. To the untrained eye, it just seems like the opposition know exactly what our call is each time, and get the timing right to disrupt.

Can anyone explain how it's so poor?

clivemcl wrote:I'll just skip over the very obvious glee we surely all feel at beating Leinster at home and cut to the chase...

What is wrong with our line out? Both our hookers are Ireland squad. In Treadwell and Henry, we have international jumpers.
What gives?

As a back, I just don't know enough. To the untrained eye, it just seems like the opposition know exactly what our call is each time, and get the timing right to disrupt.

Can anyone explain how it's so poor?

Nope

My uneducated observations are that Stewart's throwing has always been a bit erratic, but Herring was usually very reliable (and Andrew for that matter). Is it a lack of options from the back row? McCann seemed to take a few when he was playing, but obviously is currently injured. I don't remember Rea, Ewers or Timoney featuring much. Sees like we can have a functioning scrum or a line out, but not both.

On the Leinster game, obviously delighted with the result, but let's face it they weren't at their best (but you still have to beat what is front of you) and the conditions were very poor (same for both teams). The best thing for me was the way the guys hung on through the second half showing an intensity that seems to have slipped away all too frequently. Thought one of the most telling comments from Kearney on Viaplay post game was that you can never be sure which Ulster will turn up. It takes more than 3 wins in row, however good, to answer that.

While I do feel the wave of optimistic glee washing over me after that result I still am up to the waist in the sticky pessimism that never, ever leaves Ulster fans. there was a lot to celebrate about that win but the pessimism is always there tapping you on the shoulder to remind you of a few things.
Beating Leinster is always a positive thing regardless of the weather or their obvious problems with their transition to their new, shiny rush defence. The gap in behind was expertly exploited under huge pressure by Burns. The timing and placement of the kicks was perfection and it was only in some of the slow motion replays that I was able to appreciate the speed of thought and action needed from Burns, class stuff! For Soper to get plaudits for coming up with the tactic is a head scratcher. If I knew that's how to exploit Leinster at the moment then it's hardly genius. Playing the tactic on the pitch definately takes an act of genius though so for me all the plaudits go to Burns.
Our lineouts are a joke and came so very close to costing us the game. Our hookers are generally very reliable with the throws so is it down to the calls? Are we that obvious with our calls that our lineouts are easily stolen or is it timing issues that can be sorted out? I've no clue so I hope there are a few lineout experts on here that can explain.
I do think Kearney's comment hits the nail on the head, it's what we all know anyway. You never know which Ulster will show up and they can come from a dismal defeat against mediocre opposition to a glorious win against the very best just the following week using pretty much the same personnel. It seems the group mental strength is somewhat fragile which is no good and needs sorted but that's coaching, or lack there of.
Lastly, Addison. He's not regained any of his old self yet and we're half way through the season. I think he'll be given every chance and should be but there will come a time to finally cut him loose and I feel it's soon. That of course depends on how he plays in the last half of the season so fingers crossed but I don't see anything to suggest it'll be happening sadly.

I think I need a drink

Was talking to a forwards coach yesterday and his take on lineouts was very simple. It goes wrong mainly down to two reasons.
The first one is not enough practice.
The second is trying to be too clever.
He tried to get into the technical side of it but I'm a back so it just sounded like silly forwards talk after that.

carpet baboon wrote:Was talking to a forwards coach yesterday and his take on lineouts was very simple. It goes wrong mainly down to two reasons.
The first one is not enough practice.
The second is trying to be too clever.
He tried to get into the technical side of it but I'm a back so it just sounded like silly forwards talk after that.

...those 2 reasons cover so much of what's going on in my cynical view.

The truth of it is though, even though Leinster weren’t at their best, the score line probably wouldn’t have been so close if Ulster hadn’t ballsed up so many lineouts.

Interestingly, Ulster didn’t actually score any stick it up the jumper forwards tries, which is where most of our joy has been of late.
Notable that we scored tries outside of our usual style, but you have to wonder could we have added a few of our standard maul scores to this score line if our lineout had been better.

Team's up folks.

(15-9) Mike Lowry, Rob Baloucoune, James Hume, Stuart McCloskey, Jacob Stockdale, Billy Burns, John Cooney;

(1-8) Steven Kitshoff, Tom Stewart, Tom O’Toole, Kieran Treadwell, Iain Henderson (C), Dave Ewers, Sean Reffell, Nick Timoney.

Replacements: John Andrew, Andrew Warwick, Marty Moore, Al O’Connor, Matty Rea, Nathan Doak, Luke Marshall, Will Addison.

As most would have predicted to be honest but Ewers starting ahead of Rea is a boost.

Let's hope the lineout works this week. Is Herring injured?

carpet baboon wrote:Let's hope the lineout works this week. Is Herring injured?

I can only imagine he is otherwise he'd be starting. That being said, I've just seen the Toulouse side (Mon dieu), he might be glad he can watch it from the sidelines.

I just hope the good, positive, gritty Ulster turn up tomorrow. Get the 16th man behind them and put one up the Frenchies. It's the hope that kills you.

Jees it's quiet in here these days. Have we all given up on the site or is everyone experiencing wifi problems?

Did anyone watch the game?

I watched 60 mins of it and decided enough was enough, time for a movie and some more captain morgans.

We simply are not up to the level that we can realistically compete against the likes of Toulouse who were just unstoppable and cruised past without a problem.
Losing Ewers so early was a blow but wouldn't have made a difference, we don't have the fire power. The forwards get it so tight that the backline goes into panic mode when they get the ball. The first exchanges were promising enough with some frantic rugby from both sides up until Toulouse took a hold of the match. After that we played to their tune and the mediocrity was the only element that showed up, well that and Timoney who played his skin off.
Sadly that's where we are and I don't blame the players who give their all despite what they say on t'other forum. Bell and Soper are mediocre coaches and it shows on the pitch. Dan definitely took us from the pits of despair to being a decent side but letting Payne go and promoting Soper was the beginning of the end. Giving Bell a 'jobs for the boys' post has worsened the situation and the recruitment has been poor, Kitshoff apart.
We aren't Champions Cup material but can still do a job in the URC so all's not lost. We'll not lose many to the 6 nations so there's time for a rest, a reset and a real go at keeping up appearances in the league. Silverware isn't going to happen, even if we were to give Quins a bonus point thrashing (not going to happen).

Anyway, to finish on a positive, we did score 24 points against a stunning team lineup that includes Dupont so it could have been worse.

Just doesn't feel like there's much to say sometimes I guess.

Of course, the way we feel is a result of a squad that has promise, but fails to deliver.

Can you imagine being a fan of a side that has next to no promise or expectation.

As the old saying goes - it's the hope that kills you.

You do wonder how we can suddenly show moments of brilliance in the middle of what looked an easy win for Toulouse. Was it our subs being good? Was it their subs weakening them? Or did they just take their foot off the gas when the result was secured.

Who knows.

To get a few scores at least took a bit of the depression off of it.

One thing to share - after full time, Hume made a beeline to a section of the terrace, spent a long time there talking to what I assume was family - he was visibly upset. Like bawling. Somebody was wiping the tears off his face.

One thing to share - after full time, Hume made a beeline to a section of the terrace, spent a long time there talking to what I assume was family - he was visibly upset. Like bawling. Somebody was wiping the tears off his face.

Oh dear, that's sad but possibly some bad family news. Hopefully he's OK.

I think those last 2 tries they got were after Toulouse took their foot off the gas knowing it was won.  Toulouse don't need help to win these games but Ulster gave them a fair bit with some really poor mistakes.

They completely destroyed the Ulster pack in really all facets of the game which is unfortunate and don't know if there was really a lot Ulster could do about that against such a physical side.  

The more dissapointing aspect for me was the really poor kicking, some kicks were too long but there was not real apetite to chase the kicks tbh with players more ambling after them than sprinting.  No where was this better illustrated than the try Toulouse scored before half time where Ulster cleared to a back rower, there was no chase to speak off, he had 10-15 metres to get up a head of steam, he ran right over the first tackler and offloaded and they went under the sticks.

On another note I'm having a collection for the lads sitting behind me on Saturday so they can learn that penalties cannot be charged down so shouting at Ulster payers to charge them down doesn't help and that just because the decision went against Ulster doesn't mean it was wrong lol

Having said all that if they beat Harlequins this weekend they will be through to the knock out stages and even if they lose they will be in the Challenge Cup so there will be some form of European rugby after the 6 nations for them

Neil, one of the things I dislike most about watching Ulster live is that I always end up just listening to the most idiotic commentary from people nearby.
I get that it's a social thing for some guys - but seriously... there is no need to feel you have to be in conversation with whoever is next to you for 80 minutes unbroken.

I do shout things occasionally, but when I realise I was wrong, I even correct myself verbally. Hate the thought of anyone thinking I'm an idiot.

But the Kingspan is full of people with no filter, no concerns about looking stupid, and certainly no inhibitions.

It's a pet peeve of mine.




Also, the missed tackle you mention, I believe its was Tom Stewart. Really quite a poor attempt from memory.

Normally this season it hasn't been so bad where I have been, people shout out sure but nothing major.

But those lads on Saturday were shouting out at the players, at the ref etc with some unneccessary stuff and especially when the decision was correct.  I believe that one of them was trying to impress the lady that was with them with his rugby knowledge which may have spurred this on, it's just a pity he didn't have any.

Perhaps cos it was a sell out on Saturday there may have been a few more casual fans there than usual, or as I like to call it 6 nationsitis where theres suddenly a lot of rugby experts around.

Yes that was the tackle Clive, they allowed the back rower to get up to speed then Tom was basically standing still when he made the tackle as opposed to moving forward. There was only ever going to be one result to that tackle.

Also some of Toulouse play was beautiful to watch even if it was against our team, Dupont is simply sublime.

Pete330v2 wrote:Jees it's quiet in here these days. Have we all given up on the site or is everyone experiencing wifi problems?

Did anyone watch the game?

I watched 60 mins of it and decided enough was enough, time for a movie and some more captain morgans.

We simply are not up to the level that we can realistically compete against the likes of Toulouse who were just unstoppable and cruised past without a problem.
Losing Ewers so early was a blow but wouldn't have made a difference, we don't have the fire power. The forwards get it so tight that the backline goes into panic mode when they get the ball. The first exchanges were promising enough with some frantic rugby from both sides up until Toulouse took a hold of the match. After that we played to their tune and the mediocrity was the only element that showed up, well that and Timoney who played his skin off.
Sadly that's where we are and I don't blame the players who give their all despite what they say on t'other forum. Bell and Soper are mediocre coaches and it shows on the pitch. Dan definitely took us from the pits of despair to being a decent side but letting Payne go and promoting Soper was the beginning of the end. Giving Bell a 'jobs for the boys' post has worsened the situation and the recruitment has been poor, Kitshoff apart.
We aren't Champions Cup material but can still do a job in the URC so all's not lost. We'll not lose many to the 6 nations so there's time for a rest, a reset and a real go at keeping up appearances in the league. Silverware isn't going to happen, even if we were to give Quins a bonus point thrashing (not going to happen).

Anyway, to finish on a positive, we did score 24 points against a stunning team lineup that includes Dupont so it could have been worse.

I started season same as you very pessimistic, but Ulster being Ulster they don't leave you with that, they build you up untill you think maybe I was wrong and Ulster are great, before bringing you back.

I go back to what I thought at start of season, DMcF is ok but its coaches under him that have declined, and that is his fault.

Soper was a great skills coach, but promotion seams to be to senior coach with responsibility for attack mwhile also bringing the new skills coach through. Its too much for one person, bring in a dictated attack coach and let Soper mentor the skills coach and head coach roles, and I think you would see a huge improvement in this area.

Bell I don't like it when its described as jobs for the boys, it just seams to be called a good internal appointment when it works like Payne, but labled jobs for the boys when it doesn't. But Bell wasnt setting world alight at warriors or anywhere else. Willie Falloon has followed a very similar career path to Denis Leamy at Munster in coaching and it would have been better to have given him a chance like Leamy got, than Bell who is just a ok defence coach. Even give Bell a different area if need be.

But I think without wholesale change what Ulster need is an attack coach (is mike Blair still free?) And replace Bell as defense coach, even have Falloon and Bell swap roles?

"Bell I don't like it when its described as jobs for the boys, it just seams to be called a good internal appointment when it works like Payne"

Payne's appointment was a good internal appointment though. They clearly knew the value of the guy in coaching at least at the time even if they didn't show it when it came to shafting him. Bell's appointment is a job for the boys because not only was he external apart from knowing his old buddies in high places but he had a mediocre at best track record in the external jobs he had. If he didn't have his buddies there's know way he'd even be on the radar.
I didn't call it jobs for the boys lightly Kingshu, it clearly is the case.

Teams up:
Harlequins: Green; David, Beard, Esterhuizen, Anderson; Smith, Care; Marler, Walker, Collier, Herbst, Hammond, Cunningham-South, Evans, Dombrandt (capt).

Replacements: Riley, Baxter, Lewis, Launchbury, White, Porter, Anyanwu, Joseph.

Ulster: Lowry; Baloucoune, Hume, McCloskey, Stockdale; Burns, Cooney; Kitshoff, Stewart, O'Toole, Treadwell, Henderson (capt), Matty Rea, McCann, Timoney.

Replacements: Andrew, Warwick, Moore, Sheridan, Rea, Nathan Doak, Marshall, Addison.

Ulster are frustratingly inconsistent. Will this be one of those days that leaves us fuming that they can’t do it every week. I’ve got a feeling we are going to show up today. Which would both be welcome, but also infuriating.

Hope I’m not wrong!

Scratch that

Half decent play till we get into their 22 then we let them go the length of the pitch to score.
And our lineout maul is just getting worse each week

I do think the last throw from Moore that was pinged there was in fact straight. Or at least, it’s in the middle when it gets where it’s going. He seems to lean over towards the opposition when he cocks back for his throw.


Also - Lyttle was better than this season’s Balacoune. Agree or disagree?

Also, as much as it pains me… I’m starting to doubt that Lowry is good enough.

Oh and last thought - no clue how Stockdale keeps getting in the mix for Ireland.

Harry Sheridan is having a decent game. Which is pretty much the only positive so far

How close are we to McFarland going?

We go from players having promise, and breakthrough seasons to seasons of mediocrity. Whose fault is that?

I can't see us sacking him this season. Best we could do is he agrees to step down at the end of this campaign.

He should step down in embarrassment after that pathetic outing. Ulster aren't European contenders but we all expect much, much better than that. There are players on that side on the Ireland squad, imagine that.

Yea, agreed. I’m fully in the ‘McFarland Out’ camp now. It gives me no joy to say. But it’s not good enough, and it’s McFarland who should be held accountable.

I would prefer to see a whole coaching team shake up in the same process though. I’m sure the fault isn’t all on McFarland, but he did oversee it all so…

Could we convince the IRFU that it's better for the national team that the coaching team be removed so our young lads get decent coaching?

O’Gara for Ulster!

Didn't see the game yesterday but have just seen the highlights. I know highlights don't tell the full story but christ did Ulster giff them scores. Challenge Cup is their level. End of. As for Balacoune, he has regressed dramatically this season. And with respect, l wouldn't have stockdale near the Ireland side either. Larmour or Nash on the right wing.

Away to Montpellier it is then.
This was the team Ulster fielded in 2013 out in France. Ulster lineup:
1. Tom Court, 2. Rory Best, 3. Declan Fitzpatrick,
4. Johann Muller (c), 5. Dan Tuohy,
6. Robbie Diack, 7. Chris Henry, 8. Nick Williams,
9. Ruan Pienaar, 10. Paddy Jackson,
11. Tommy Bowe, 12. Luke Marshall, 13. Darren Cave, 14. Andrew Trimble,
15. Jared Payne.
Replacements:
16. Rob Herring (for Best 74'), 17. Callum Black (for Court 70'), 18. John Afoa (for Fitzpatrick 48'),
19. Lewis Stevenson (for Muller 75'), 20. Iain Henderson (for Diack 53'),
21. Paul Marshall (for Pienaar 74'), 22. Stuart Olding (for L. Marshall 50'), 23. Michael Allen (for Trimble 74').

Michael Allen, yet another name totally forgotten by me!
I was saying to my son the other day about how many wingers tend to get a chance at Ulster, but ultimately are cut loose.

I wonder if for fun, we could make a list of back 3 players over the last decade that got Ulster senior caps but then left.

Could we get 20 names?

Some side that! There was quality all over the park and a bit of depth to rely on as well.
Michael Allen I remembered well but Lewis Stevenson is a player who evaded my memory.

clivemcl wrote:Michael Allen, yet another name totally forgotten by me!
I was saying to my son the other day about how many wingers tend to get a chance at Ulster, but ultimately are cut loose.

I wonder if for fun, we could make a list of back 3 players over the last decade that got Ulster senior caps but then left.

Could we get 20 names?

Rory Scholes, Peter Nelson, Angus Kernoghan (sp), Ross Adair, was there a lad called Busby too?

clivemcl wrote:Michael Allen, yet another name totally forgotten by me!
I was saying to my son the other day about how many wingers tend to get a chance at Ulster, but ultimately are cut loose.

I wonder if for fun, we could make a list of back 3 players over the last decade that got Ulster senior caps but then left.

Could we get 20 names?

Just out of the time frame, but Tommy Seymour had a wee bit of success after leaving Ulster!

Chris Cochrane.
Ricky Andrew.
Ross Adair.
David McIlwaine.


Of our current lads - McIlroy, Mocham and Sexton - who will follow the same fate as the above?

McIlroy probably has as much a case as Lyttle did. So who knows, he could go too.

Furthermore, in that time period we've also leaned heavily on overseas players.

clivemcl wrote:Chris Cochrane.
Ricky Andrew.
Ross Adair.
David McIlwaine.


Of our current lads - McIlroy, Mocham and Sexton - who will follow the same fate as the above?

McIlroy probably has as much a case as Lyttle did. So who knows, he could go too.

I'd say we'd retain McIlroy but then again I'd have sworn we'd retain Lyttle which wouldn't have taken much let's face it. Moxham has a little something, he can do a turn off the bench in the URC but Sexton can go now along with Addison.