Ulster 2023/2024 Season

First topic message reminder :

For the good, the bad and the ugly of Ulster rugby this season. Lets hope mostly good.

Have we ever brought a back 3 player up from the south? Or back 5 for that matter. Either into the academy or the senior squad.

Maybe it’s time we start?

Was Ludik a project player or already a IQ when he joined? Terblanche was cover for Payne if I remember. Danielli was the last overseas winger i think. Forgot about Piutau

It's up to the IRFU High Performance Director to aid in the recruitment/movement of said players from the south or anywhere for that matter.
If only we had some influence over said individual as in the past the person in post hasn't been favourable towards Ulster Rugby. Hmmmmmm

Would still prefer a decent fly half sent up.

Maine man wrote:Was Ludik a project player or already a IQ when he joined? Terblanche was cover for Payne if I remember. Danielli was the last overseas winger i think. Forgot about Piutau

Nagusa? Henry Speight. And Lialifaano - did he play back 3 - Full-back a bit?

Adam D'arcy? Maybe he was more than 10 years ago now to be fair!

But yes, the other provinces I'd say are casting off fairly handy 19-21yr old back 3 players. Maybe Big Humph could have a word.
The same fellas probably would rather go play GAA or something though.

Angus Curtis has retired under doctors advice due to concussions.
Hope he does well outside of rugby.
Remember his performances for the Ireland U20s he looked pretty impressive, but had absolutely no luck with injuries. He wasn't the biggest but he never hid from the physical side and tackled well above his weigh.

carpet baboon wrote:Angus Curtis has retired under doctors advice due to concussions.
Hope he does well outside of rugby.
Remember his performances for the Ireland U20s he looked pretty impressive, but had absolutely no luck with injuries. He wasn't the biggest but he never hid from the physical side and tackled well above his weigh.

It's always sad when a player is forced to retire and we unfortunately saw far too little or Curtis. It's the best move for him though if it'll save him from some of the horrific effects we've heard of from other ex-players.

Munster making moves on Billy Burns apparently.
Are we after a replacement though?

That’s an odd one! You would assume it’s because Ulster are considering replacing him and he still wants to persue Irish caps.

Strange!

clivemcl wrote:That’s an odd one! You would assume it’s because Ulster are considering replacing him and he still wants to persue Irish caps.

Strange!

I just heard it's Burns looking out. Is it because there's a big signing on the way or is it in reality that Doak going to get more gametime which would send Ulster from mediocre to plain sh17e.
It's unlikely to be the former option but with Humps in a position of power who knows. Perhaps Flannery can go with Burns as a package for all he's worth.

Jackman was saying on one of the podcasts last week that he thinks Doak will be moved to 10. So possibly true. Doesn't fill me with glee to be honest. Not seen anything special about him when he has played 10

carpet baboon wrote:Jackman was saying on one of the podcasts last week that he thinks Doak will be moved to 10. So possibly true. Doesn't fill me with glee to be honest. Not seen anything special about him when he has played 10

I've not seen anything special about him when he plays 9.

The Irish Times tagline goes a little something like this:
"Joey Carbery’s move to France next season leaves Munster’s outhalf stocks bare"

So their explanation is that Munster need cover for Crowley which is fair enough.
However that leaves us with Flannery (the Pound Shop Burns), Doak (if played at 10 becomes even less than mediocre) and Humphreys in the academy (not seen much of him but what I saw made me realise talent is not always in the genes).

The conspiracy theorist in me would say this is Hump Snr's way of getting the nepo player more game time.
The optimist in me says we must have almost closed a deal with a high class NIQ.
The Pessimist in me says that we'll have Doak and Flannery battling it out to see who the slightly less crap 10.

Oh Hell

Pete330v2 wrote:The Irish Times tagline goes a little something like this:
"Joey Carbery’s move to France next season leaves Munster’s outhalf stocks bare"

So their explanation is that Munster need cover for Crowley which is fair enough.
However that leaves us with Flannery (the Pound Shop Burns), Doak (if played at 10 becomes even less than mediocre) and Humphreys in the academy (not seen much of him but what I saw made me realise talent is not always in the genes).

The conspiracy theorist in me would say this is Hump Snr's way of getting the nepo player more game time.
The optimist in me says we must have almost closed a deal with a high class NIQ.
The Pessimist in me says that we'll have Doak and Flannery battling it out to see who the slightly less crap 10.

Oh Hell

Is it too early to start drinking?

Well at least a 6n to distract me

carpet baboon wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:The Irish Times tagline goes a little something like this:
"Joey Carbery’s move to France next season leaves Munster’s outhalf stocks bare"

So their explanation is that Munster need cover for Crowley which is fair enough.
However that leaves us with Flannery (the Pound Shop Burns), Doak (if played at 10 becomes even less than mediocre) and Humphreys in the academy (not seen much of him but what I saw made me realise talent is not always in the genes).

The conspiracy theorist in me would say this is Hump Snr's way of getting the nepo player more game time.
The optimist in me says we must have almost closed a deal with a high class NIQ.
The Pessimist in me says that we'll have Doak and Flannery battling it out to see who the slightly less crap 10.

Oh Hell

Is it too early to start drinking?

Well at least a 6n to distract me

The sun is over the yardarm somewhere on the planet at all times. This is a godsend to Ulster supporters (not that we ever need an excuse).
Make it a strong one

So by the sounds of things Burns going is a cost cutting measure, so unless we are cutting loose a few others at the end of this season a replacement seems unlikely.
So looks like Doak and Flannery with Humph jr as back up.
Interesting times ahead

They do understand that Outhalf is kind of an important position don't they. Unless they know something I don't about the Ulster outhalf options after Burns then this fills me with dread.

If Ulster don't get a high end fly half, then I say bring back David Nucifora!
On a serious point, there are 4 decent fly halves at Leinster. Surely it would be in Ireland's best interests for one of them to come north.

Now there's talk of O'Toole to Leinster.
I just don't buy the cost cutting BS. There was plenty of funding for the crappy plastic pitch. There was plenty in the coffers to pay over the odds for the not too impressive Kitshoff. All this despite all the provinces being owned by the IRFU. Munster can sign with impunity despite them still owing for Thomond. Connacht can sign NIQs despite everything spent on the Sports ground. Leinster are Leinster, no need for spending yet they can sign Snyman and retain a crop of outhalves.
Ulster have to make do with a below average nepo-half back and a pack past their sell by date. Apparently there's to be even more high profile offloads. Kitshoff must be dying to get away from the whole tragedy.
Ulster have a first class ticket to a crisis. I wish we could use proper phraseology on here but let's just say that those in control are useless to the point of embarrassment. The entire coaching/management team are jokes.

Think we will get any more terrible news today? Hendo off to Saracens? Big Stu leaving to start gardening business with POM in cork? Dan has signed an extension to be coach for life?

carpet baboon wrote:Think we will get any more terrible news today? Hendo off to Saracens? Big Stu leaving to start gardening business with POM in cork? Dan has signed an extension to be coach for life?

Do you really think POM would let Stu anywhere near anything to do with his gardening, business or not. No chance

Hope everyone had a decent Christmas and New Year.
Been busy but not been neglecting Ulster and been to a few games.

The current financial situation seems desperate.
As people know we lost £900,000 last year.
We also shelled out on a plastic pitch on top of that.
One of the master plans was the plastic pitch would generate income through non rugby events.
It is my understanding there are no events currently planned for this coming summer - you would expect them to be booked by now.
Lost money against Racing because of the strike, had our capacity reduced to 16,700 for Toulouse, out of the Champions Cup, down
to one CC - all four piling on the squeeze.

Net result seems to be a clear out is under way and it could be drastic.

Burns will be away, O'Connor rumoured to not being offered a contract next year, Curtis has retired.
A number of players, who are on the decline under review I believe
O'Sullivan, M.Moore, Addison, Marshall come to mind.
Also obvious dead wood in Jones.
French isn't good enough, Marcus Rea has disappeared, Reffell keen as mustard but sadly not up to it.
I know he has been injured a fair bit but Ewers looks like a player on the decline to me (Exeter released him for a reason)
As to the cover backs - does anyone think Moxham, Sexton, McIlroy or O'Brien has what it takes? - no not me either
Why Postlewaite has got a look in completely baffles me - the one class act coming through the Academy in the last year or two in the backs
Baloucoune has been beyond bad - not even AIB 2A standard

This really is a very thin squad.
What has got my goat is Leinster trying top prise O'Toole away - bloody cheek !
Before anyone says what about all the players Ulster got from Leinster.
A quick look at the facts will tell you every player who joined Ulster having previously played for Leinster at some level
had been rejected by Leinster, was out of contract (McGrath) or approach Ulster (Murphy). Ulster did not approach one player
who was currently on a Leinster contract.
O'Toole is currently on an Ulster contract - fortunately Leinster told to do one

If I was Herring, Cooney, McCloskey I would be tempted to return to SA or try for a big pay cheque in France.

We are in serious trouble.

Thanks for the update Geoff.
Does this mean the likelihood of Doak or Flannery at fly half next season?
I was amazed when Cooney re-signed. I would have run a mile if I was him.

Well that's cheered me right up

10 looks like Doak, Flannery, Lowry
Lock worries me - Henderson, Treadwell, Sheridan, Matty Rea, Izzy

Can Joe Hopes play second row? Or is he seen as just a back row?

He is seen as a Lock rather than a back row but he is a bean pole.

I cant see him being ready for next year - the following year is more realistic.

Needs padding out big time.

Postlethwaite has been playing regularly.....for Armagh. Shocking player management.
Management on the whole deserves nothing less than a group P45. The problem being nobody with half a wit would come within a hounds goal of the cluster.... that is Ulster. The crap pitch being used for other events sounds like Logan has returned I.e. utter BS.
What really gets me is Connacht had been propped up for years and Munster keep getting blank cheques despite their financial track record yet we're left high and dry. If there was a bit of fight in the Ulster dog things might be different but the position has always been to roll over and submit to IRFU orders.
It's disgusting, truly shameful

The Kingspan contract coming to an end hasn't helped

geoff999rugby wrote:Hope everyone had a decent Christmas and New Year.
Been busy but not been neglecting Ulster and been to a few games.

The current financial situation seems desperate.
As people know we lost £900,000 last year.
We also shelled out on a plastic pitch on top of that.
One of the master plans was the plastic pitch would generate income through non rugby events.
It is my understanding there are no events currently planned for this coming summer - you would expect them to be booked by now.
Lost money against Racing because of the strike, had our capacity reduced to 16,700 for Toulouse, out of the Champions Cup, down
to one CC - all four piling on the squeeze.

Net result seems to be a clear out is under way and it could be drastic.

Burns will be away, O'Connor rumoured to not being offered a contract next year, Curtis has retired.
A number of players, who are on the decline under review I believe
O'Sullivan, M.Moore, Addison, Marshall come to mind.
Also obvious dead wood in Jones.
French isn't good enough, Marcus Rea has disappeared, Reffell keen as mustard but sadly not up to it.
I know he has been injured a fair bit but Ewers looks like a player on the decline to me (Exeter released him for a reason)
As to the cover backs - does anyone think Moxham, Sexton, McIlroy or O'Brien has what it takes? - no not me either
Why Postlewaite has got a look in completely baffles me - the one class act coming through the Academy in the last year or two in the backs
Baloucoune has been beyond bad - not even AIB 2A standard

This really is a very thin squad.
What has got my goat is Leinster trying top prise O'Toole away - bloody cheek !
Before anyone says what about all the players Ulster got from Leinster.
A quick look at the facts will tell you every player who joined Ulster having previously played for Leinster at some level
had been rejected by Leinster, was out of contract (McGrath) or approach Ulster (Murphy). Ulster did not approach one player
who was currently on a Leinster contract.
O'Toole is currently on an Ulster contract - fortunately Leinster told to do one

If I was Herring, Cooney, McCloskey I would be tempted to return to SA or try for a big pay cheque in France.

We are in serious trouble.

It's well known that Ulster approached Prendergast, which led to Leinster having to offer Prendergast a senior deal instead of an academy one. Leo has history of warning other provinces off by inquiring on the availability of players after one of our high profile players are approached. He spoke to Craig Casey after Carberry was signed by Munster for instance.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Hope everyone had a decent Christmas and New Year.
Been busy but not been neglecting Ulster and been to a few games.

The current financial situation seems desperate.
As people know we lost £900,000 last year.
We also shelled out on a plastic pitch on top of that.
One of the master plans was the plastic pitch would generate income through non rugby events.
It is my understanding there are no events currently planned for this coming summer - you would expect them to be booked by now.
Lost money against Racing because of the strike, had our capacity reduced to 16,700 for Toulouse, out of the Champions Cup, down
to one CC - all four piling on the squeeze.

Net result seems to be a clear out is under way and it could be drastic.

Burns will be away, O'Connor rumoured to not being offered a contract next year, Curtis has retired.
A number of players, who are on the decline under review I believe
O'Sullivan, M.Moore, Addison, Marshall come to mind.
Also obvious dead wood in Jones.
French isn't good enough, Marcus Rea has disappeared, Reffell keen as mustard but sadly not up to it.
I know he has been injured a fair bit but Ewers looks like a player on the decline to me (Exeter released him for a reason)
As to the cover backs - does anyone think Moxham, Sexton, McIlroy or O'Brien has what it takes? - no not me either
Why Postlewaite has got a look in completely baffles me - the one class act coming through the Academy in the last year or two in the backs
Baloucoune has been beyond bad - not even AIB 2A standard

This really is a very thin squad.
What has got my goat is Leinster trying top prise O'Toole away - bloody cheek !
Before anyone says what about all the players Ulster got from Leinster.
A quick look at the facts will tell you every player who joined Ulster having previously played for Leinster at some level
had been rejected by Leinster, was out of contract (McGrath) or approach Ulster (Murphy). Ulster did not approach one player
who was currently on a Leinster contract.
O'Toole is currently on an Ulster contract - fortunately Leinster told to do one

If I was Herring, Cooney, McCloskey I would be tempted to return to SA or try for a big pay cheque in France.

We are in serious trouble.

It's well known that Ulster approached Prendergast, which led to Leinster having to offer Prendergast a senior deal instead of an academy one. Leo has history of warning other provinces off by inquiring on the availability of players after one of our high profile players are approached. He spoke to Craig Casey after Carberry was signed by Munster for instance.

Is Leo 12?

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
It's well known that Ulster approached Prendergast, which led to Leinster having to offer Prendergast a senior deal instead of an academy one. Leo has history of warning other provinces off by inquiring on the availability of players after one of our high profile players are approached. He spoke to Craig Casey after Carberry was signed by Munster for instance.

If true a few points

Firstly my post was referring to the players from Leinster who have joined Ulster over the last few years.
Secondly Prendergast did not have a full contract - hardly comparable with approach a World Cup squad player under a full professional contract with Ulster
Lastly, as Pete says, is Cullen 12 - taking petty small mindedness to a new level

geoff999rugby wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:  
It's well known that Ulster approached Prendergast, which led to Leinster having to offer Prendergast a senior deal instead of an academy one. Leo has history of warning other provinces off by inquiring on the availability of players after one of our high profile players are approached. He spoke to Craig Casey after Carberry was signed by Munster for instance.

If true a few points

Firstly my post was referring to the players from Leinster who have joined Ulster over the last few years.
Secondly Prendergast did not have a full contract - hardly comparable with approach a World Cup squad player under a full professional contract with Ulster
Lastly, as Pete says, is Cullen 12 - taking petty small mindedness to a new level

Strange to think that's petty as Cullen has to deal with this nonsense EVERY season. Even now every one of our 10s, bar Ross is being linked with another province. I've also previously already went through what happened our TH stocks. Cullen has acted with nothing but class with everything that gets thrown him.

The thing with Prendergast is (along with Illo being poached with a senior contract by Connacht), it has now set a dangerous precedent where any u20 star will now angle for a senior contract instead of joining the academy. It's great for the player of course, but this could end up costing the provinces a fortune in the long run. We all know that playing well at u20 level doesn't necessarily mean you'll make it as a pro.

The problem with sinking ships is, there’s often many holes in the hull and you are forced to ignore the small ones to try and mend the big ones.

If money is already tight, and a fair few of your core players are talking about leaving, or at least playing that card for a better deal. What the club are perhaps forced into, is letting somebody like Burns go in order to afford what it takes to convince Hendy/Herring/Timoney/McCloskey to stay.

If money is tight and half your big team are angling for a better contract… you can’t win them all.


Shameful situation to have got ourselves in. But also annoying that IRFU don’t throw us a bone.

It’s common enough for players to switch clubs for game time, but what other regular starting first team players have moved between provinces?
Henshaw. Who else?

Somebody mentioned the embarrassment of riches at out half for Leinster.

If we can’t tempt any of them, we should at least try to poach whoever the best teenage out half there is coming up behind them!

Although… we’d probably destroy all his potential up here with this current setup.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:  
It's well known that Ulster approached Prendergast, which led to Leinster having to offer Prendergast a senior deal instead of an academy one. Leo has history of warning other provinces off by inquiring on the availability of players after one of our high profile players are approached. He spoke to Craig Casey after Carberry was signed by Munster for instance.

If true a few points

Firstly my post was referring to the players from Leinster who have joined Ulster over the last few years.
Secondly Prendergast did not have a full contract - hardly comparable with approach a World Cup squad player under a full professional contract with Ulster
Lastly, as Pete says, is Cullen 12 - taking petty small mindedness to a new level

Strange to think that's petty as Cullen has to deal with this nonsense EVERY season. Even now every one of our 10s, bar Ross is being linked with another province. I've also previously already went through what happened our TH stocks. Cullen has acted with nothing but class with everything that gets thrown him.

The thing with Prendergast is (along with Illo being poached with a senior contract by Connacht), it has now set a dangerous precedent where any u20 star will now angle for a senior contract instead of joining the academy. It's great for the player of course, but this could end up costing the provinces a fortune in the long run. We all know that playing well at u20 level doesn't necessarily mean you'll make it as a pro.

Send us all your U20s. We’ll find out if they can make it as pros. We’ll send them back to you when you’re ready for them. Promise

I still maintain there is a big difference between a Academy player being approach and a player who is under contract with another Province.
That should be a complete and utter no no.
Burns is different because Ulster indicated they were not renewing his contract.

I do think if another province wants to offer an Academy player elsewhere a contract, the initial province should be allowed to agree a full contract with the player first.

Being rumoured else where that:

Ewers, Addison and Marshall are on the way out and no replacements.
Add in the earlier rumour on O'Connor and that would be a hell of a clear out.
Especially when you add in the clear out of a few tackle bags - Jones + others

Also rumoured Petrie on the way out and Cunningham taking over as CEO

Looking at our accounts, just published, and it doesn't make pretty reading.
Squad cost have gone through the roof from
4.17 million (year end June 2022) to 6.56 million (year end June 2023)

That crazy and means a lot of player got significant rises they didn't deserve.
Year ending June 2023, when you add in the 2 Central Contracts, would have been the first time the
total salary amount was over £7 Million.

I suspect we will be back to about £5.5 million come this summer.
Hence the cut backs.

What I really don't get is Ulster are having to cut back sharply but Munster get a free pass on their debt on Thomond Park.
They can carry a liability year on year but we have to pay our way ??

As an aside where are all those posters here stating Ulster, and Irish teams generally have £9 million+ salary bills.
No ambiguity this time its there in black and white in the annual report.

Read this and weep:

Last time we played Montpelier this was our back line

Pienaer, Jackson, Trimble, Marshall, Cave, Bowe, Payne

Who of our current backs who make that team - McCloskey would contest the 12 spot but the
rest wouldn't have a hope

So maybe the forwards were so good - not exactly
Best, Muller, Henry and Williams weren't too shabby

We have gone downhill a long way

I wonder if there was discussion/chat about Burns at the time of Cooney's renewal. Perhaps a decision as made, or had to be made - keep Cooney, let Burns go and move Doak. Versus let Cooney go, keep Burns and keep Doak at 9.

If I had to choose, I'd pick 9 Doak 10 Burns, over 9 Cooney 10 Doak.

What about you all?

To be fair, I don't think either Cooney or Doak are bad players - they just suffer from what many of our players suffer with - a mind boggling lack of consistent standard.

Many games have shown our attacking chances rise significantly with Doak coming off the bench. But perhaps that's all tactics/strategy - Paul Marshall used to provide the same effect from the bench at times.

Cant agree on Doak - when he started he was poor.
Shanahan out played him when he came on.
In part simply a matter of a fresh face looking better by comparison.

Doak is way too slow at the base of the ruck/scrum - often gets caught and kills the momentum of our attacks.

Rumours Jones, Shanners and O'Sullivan could all be on the way out


Will the last professional player left at Ravenhill, turn out the lights !

So it's goodbye to Burns, Ewers, Addison, Marshall, O'Connor, Jones, Shannaghan, O'Sullivan and A.N.Others.

If we simply add an M to the team name the IRFU might mistake us for Munster and offer a raft of replacement regardless of cost and regardless of our financial situation and monies outstanding. Mulster has a certain ring to it.

Hold on tight folks, there's a long, rough ride ahead.

It could be that all of those mentioned are not leaving this summer but next.

Ewers, O'Connor and Marshall have contracts until 2025

Having said that
Ewers may be retiring because of injury
Marshall may well have decided the time has come
O'Connor is struggling

so who knows

We often complain about how Munster get treated and with good reason however there is no denying the leadership at the top of Ulster rugby both on the administrative and coaching side of things is downright awful.

Geoff has metnioned bits of it here at times, we've all seen plenty of decisions that make us wonder from Ulster too.  This goes depper than just money owed on a loan this is a proper governance issue in the leadership of Ulster rugby.

The IRFU may be trying to say to Ulster they need to get their house in order as governance issues are a much bigger problem than just owing money if you are sure it is well run and can pay back eventually.  

Our ticket sales have also fallen again, I mean when was the last time (barring Toulouse) Ulster actually sold out a game and even that was only a few days before the game.  We are now out of Champions Cup so contributing less money from tv there.

Not only are things bad off the pitch but on the pitch we were the worst placed province last year (when you consider Connacht beat us in the quarter finals), the gameplay has been extremely inconsistent and we are now out of the Champions Cup with little more than a whimper.

Our players are not developing properly, the amount of young players we have had burst onto the scene looking brilliant and with clear talent only for them to go nowhere, never progress some even regress. Baloucoune was once the next great Irish Winger, Lowry had a shot at being the Irish Fullback for a while, Doak has been labelled Ireland's new number 9, Hume was on the edge of the Ireland squad, Stockdale won the player of the 6 nations award.  They have all regressed, Doak and Baloucoune now hardly even look professional standard.

In the forwards who have we produced really apart from Henderson.  Of the players who have made recent Ireland squads apart from him we have O'Toole who was born down south and did most of his growing up in Australia, Timoney who is from Dublin, Treadwell who is from England and Herring who is South African.  Off course we have the very talented Tom Stewart who could be one for the future although they need to fix his darts.

Last weekends Ireland team had zero Ulster players in the 23 and if we are being perfectly honest I don't really think any of them where in contention other than maybe Hendo so we aren't even contributing to the Ireland team.

Northern Ireland alone has a population of around 1.9 million.  The rest of Ireland is around 5 million some of which are still in Ulster.  In other words Ulster makes up close to a third of the islands population.  When was the last time more than 1 or 2 Ulster players made the Ireland team?  There is no doubt we are not producing anywhere near the number of players that we should be.

Then there are the various controversies, Jackson and Olding for example whatever you think of what happened there is no doubt what was rumoured to be coming from Ulster players in Whatsapp groups doesn't shed a good light on some attitudes in the team.  The Kingspan debacle which has made the news time and again.  And various other player and coaching in disciplines that we have heard off or been rumoured.  The bad press from the game v La Rochelle and how bad that made the province look.

Ulster rugby is rotten, the whole way through the structure and it doesn't just need a change or 2 it needs complete open surgery throughout.

I know this is a pretty dire take on the province but I don't think anything I have said is particularly wrong and it's not hard for me to see why the IRFU wouldn't be keen on throwing money at Ulster or having things go on as they have up here.

Dan McFarland was pretty unknown, same with Petrie, same with a fair few of our signings.

Of course, winning actual games will help put bums on seats, but I feel the club maybe need some known names to spark some interest and hope again.

Of course, that maybe sounds a bit too much like 'jobs for the boys', but in truth - more than half of the 'fans' are not in fact super invested or knowledgable. You can't deny that there would be a spike in interest if some key jobs went to people that Ulster, in the past, have held in high regard.

The likes of Payne, Muller, Pienaar, Humph Snr, Rory! Or even outside of Ulster, but obvious legends like O'Gara.

I know that on paper, it should be ability and qualifications that matter for such roles, but in terms of collecting revenue and sparking some spirit and hope, replacing staff with other equally unknown coaches from around the world is probably not going to do much in itself.

In terms of marquee signings, we do also have a habit of signing players who, whilst performing and winning at the highest level, are a bit lacking in personality and flair.

Yes, of course, we just need to win, but if this season ends like it has been going, and 2024/25 shows improvement, it would be 2025/26 season before we would even see the financial benefit of better attendances.

It will be a long road back by sounds of it. Like I say - I feel we need a spark.

There is a lot of truth in what both Neil and Clive have said above. The financial situation in rugby across the world isn't good, even Leinster appear to be slimming down somewhat. So what is to be done? Hopefully the management at Ulster will change and the new people will have a clear plan on how to take things forward. As well as new management personally I think we need new coaching staff, and that should start from the top. Dan McF rescued us from a chaotic state, but it looks like new ideas are desperately needed.

It looks like money will dictate a squad of as many home grown players as possible and that needs to used a focus to drive renewed support. Marquee players will be too costly, and their impact can be limited by form, injury, or personality (or lack). I think there could be some great arguments over the relative impact of players such as Pedrie Wannenburg (going back a way), Nick Williams or Charles Piutau given the differences in costs. I'm sure Steven Kitshoff is a great bloke, and in the top 2 loose heads in the world, but who comes to see a prop play? Not too many unless really committed fans.

Any new coaching staff need to inspire the players and work on the mental aspects of the game in my view. The inconsistently good performances show that the skills are there, but the too frequent poor performances leads me to believe there is something missing in the mental/attitude side of things.

But ultimately sporting performance appears to be cyclical. The heady days of dominating the inter-pros in the 80s, winning the European cup in the 90s and the Celtic League in the 00s, may return. But we aren't yet finishing in the bottom 3 of the league as we have done on a few occasions.

Dan came into Ulster when we were, as much as I hate to agree with BOD, a basket case. Dan had a decent team around him at the time but since then has surrounded himself in mediocrity. That being said, perhaps things were so unprofessional and toxic in the Kiss era that it wasn't going to take much to raise the bar. Dan seemed passionate about making Ulster great again and he had Payne on defence, Peel on attack and Soper on skills amongst others. The formula worked well for Ulster and Dan so when Peel decided to leave for Scarlets the paint started coming off the cracks. Soper's promotion was foolish and led to Payne's leaving which proved the foolishness. Soper IMO was then overrated mediocrity and his track record since has only proven his status. Bell's appointment was the worst bit of business yet mind you. A coach with a very shaky track record isn't what you want to bring into and already shaky coaching setup but hey, he's an old friend so lets give him a chance. We attract that level of coaching, the other provinces must have chuckled when they looked at who they were able to hook.
Bums will continue to drop off the seats if the current trajectory in maintained and I don't see anything other than that. Our fortunes will not turn around with who are jointly steering the sinking ship. That's not to say they all need removed but a decent attack or defence coach may work wonders to spark something new. Sometimes it only takes one ingredient to lift the entire recipe.
However, were we are slimming down the squad again with the good days already on the decline. My optimism is gone, I can't for the life of me find any reason to feel that emotion any more where Ulster's concerned.

Ulster does what Ulster does best, builds you up to just smack you down harder and further than before.

Start of season I like others was pessimistic about the coaching team not being changed to get anmore out of the team, expected midtable, then Ulster do what they do best and actually went well for a while, untill you believe you may actually be wrong and then this if apears Ulster are in a worse position than even my pessimism pre season thought.

Ewers best years were behind him, Exeter had started dropping him for the big games, like DV whats the point in these expensive over the hill players.

For the finance, I can't understand it, we know from covid that matchday attendance makes up the majority of teams income. We have very similar average crowd to Munster, so similar income levels, yet we can't keep Burns as first choice OH and they can afford to sign him as back up OH?

They have 2 central contracts, and 2 NIQs wages paid for. But is that a big enough difference? Ulster already has the smallest squad and is reducing it more, yet Munster have a larger squad and can pay players to be back up that would we can't even afford as first choice, does 4 players of the book really make the difference?

Think the those under 20s, Crusaders, SAXV games must be making a difference but also think theres more.

Somebody mentioned previously the money troubles in part were due to the new pitch costs, or rather the failure of their plan to have the pitch hired out for events.
It has literally only just occurred to me why that failed.

The stadium name. Whilst Ulster perhaps felt that legally and financially they had to stick to the sponsorship contract, it undoubtedly turned off others and the IRFU from using 'The Kingspan' as a venue for events.

Which... to be fair, is just horrible luck. And yet another example of modern culture punishing people out of some misguided moral superiority.

I don't know the legalities. In terms of marketing, obviously getting rid of the Kingspan attachment would have helped Ulster. I don't think it has anything to do with loyalty (Jackson and Holding can testify to that!) - I'm pretty sure legally and financially Ulster were and still are 'stuck' with the Kingspan brand and the negativity that comes with that.

It's all very pessimistic. And I'll take it the players leaving with a pinch of salt until I see what actually happens.
Leinster have the Byrne brothers, Frawley, and Sam Pendergast. You never know we could be getting a Byrne when we lose a Burns. Wishful thinking.

Ok ok... I've nothing to base that on. But still, there's a little bit of me hopes, that for all these names potentially going, we might sneak one or two hand Irish players in return. Maybe Humph will actually do us a solid?

On that, Did Nucifora actually manage to do his job well? I know nobody can force players to move. But isn't that what's needed? Doesn't the IRFU want four strong provinces, and regular gametime for the best players?

All that said, Humph is not actually with the IRFU yet, and doesn't fully take the reins until June. So I doubt he's influenced anything yet!

If we had got rid of Kingspan when the scandal broke we would have folded simple as.
I do however think that cutting the connection was a must.
I fear one further year has been added as Ulster have failed to find an alternative as yet.
I suspect Kingspan will paying less next year and that is part of the financial problem.

I am sure Clive is right all those rumours will not come to pass, however I suspect that a fair number of them will.
This years squad is smaller than last years and next years will be smaller than this years.

In the past a number of new contracts have been named by now and and most are sorted by the end of February/mid March.
I've not heard a single rumour of a contract extension - first time in over 20 years.


People with contract beyond this year.
2025

Dan McFarland, Jonny Bell, Roddy Grant, Andrew Warwick, Callum Reid, Rob Herring, John Andrew, Alan O’Connor **, Iain Henderson  (CC), Nick Timoney, David McCann, Harry Sheridan, John Cooney, Conor McKee, Stewart Moore, Stuart McCloskey, Robert Baloucoune, Ethan McIlroy, Ben Moxham, Michael Lowry, Shea O’Brien, Aaron Sexton , Jacob Stockdale, Luke Marshall **, David Ewers **


2026

Steven Kitshoff, Tom Stewart, Kieran Treadwell, Cormac Izuchukwu, Nathan Doak, Jake Flannery, Jude Postlewaite

Thats 29 players
3 rumoured to be leaving/retiring **
3 very mediocre back three players - Sexton, Moxham, O'Brien
1 never played - McKee

That is paper thin.
We do have 4 or so coming up from the Academy but still a drop in numbers will occur

Harry Byrne would be a step down from Burns.
All promise and no delivery