Ulster 2023/2024 Season

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For the good, the bad and the ugly of Ulster rugby this season. Lets hope mostly good.

Aaron Cruden now a rumour being linked to Ulster.

The Irish rugby news in the last 24 hours has been bonkers.

I'm sure he would be better than Doak, but at 35, how is this going to help long term? And would he be a LOT cheaper than Burns? If that was the reason for Burns' departure.

Unless maybe he's not just there to play but to be a mentor/coach figure for Doak... or perhaps a younger 10 - perhaps Murphy.

It's currently only being reported by fissler, which to me is a 9/10 chance it's absolute cobblers.

Max Deegan to us has resurfaced. For I think the 3rd year in a row.

Keegan and Ed Byrne both mentioned, if they dragged Frawley or another Byrne along that'd work.

While we need a 10, we also need more reinforcement in the forwards. Deegan would be excellent and could help bring on the likes of McCann, McNabney, McLoughlin, Crothers, Sheridan, and Izzy but if hasn't tried to move already, why would he do it now? Moloney would have been another excellent recruit, but given the current situation we were never going to outbid Bath. Ed Byrne would be great too, given the dearth of experienced (and fit) props, but Leinster aren't too well provided at that position either.

Not at all confident about the run in now, Cardiff and Benetton will both fancy their chances at Ravenhill and every match is pretty much must win.

I kinda feel we could simply be getting Leinster players if Leinster aren't prepared to renew their contracts. I mean, Leinster can't keep paying squad backup 27 year olds, especially if there's talent coming through. Like the rest of us, their squad can only be so big.

So, it's possible, but I'd rather the players were coming because they were attempting to prove a point, rather than coming, because they had no other offer.

Speaking of the tough run-in. It could also be likely that some potential signings are waiting to find out if Ulster will be playing Champions Cup next season.

clivemcl wrote:I kinda feel we could simply be getting Leinster players if Leinster aren't prepared to renew their contracts. I mean, Leinster can't keep paying squad backup 27 year olds, especially if there's talent coming through. Like the rest of us, their squad can only be so big.

So, it's possible, but I'd rather the players were coming because they were attempting to prove a point, rather than coming, because they had no other offer.

JGP is due to sign a central contact next season, which will bring Leinster up to 10 central contracts. So when you dont have to pay for 2/3 of your best XV you can afford to have good backups.

Or another way the budget another province can spend on players form 1 to 15, Leinster can use to pay players 10 to 25. Plus with all the games at Aviva they would have a higher budget anyway, so those players ranked 10-25 at Leinster can be better paid than any other provinces 1st XV.

I know it's difficult to entice any players to make the move north if not impossible and I know the rumours flying around Rugbypass and Twitter are just rumours. I do hope the rumour re: Cruden turns out to be complete bull, he'd not be the kind of player you could play week in, week out being the pensioner he is.
However, at least there are rumours which suggests that Ulster are casting the net out.

Lot of hot air and baseless rumours doing the rounds I see.

Fact is Deegan has turned us down on more than one occasion - why would he change his mind now?
Cruden - as a player not a chance. As a coach/player possible but unlikely. In the past he has expressed no interest in coaching.

My gut feeling is both rumours are complete and utter rubbish.
Whilst Deegan is a good player I am not sure I'd want a player who comes to us because he has no other option.

Name me one player on a Leinster contract who has come to Ulster in the last decade? - Its a very short list (1) and the player initiated that move not Ulster.

To come back to reality it looks like Shanahan is staying and McDonald is returning which gives credence to Doak at 10 (but see below)
We may have 4 SH's without him next year - Cooney, McDonald, Shanahan, McKee

(15-9): Will Addison, Mike Lowry, James Hume, Jude Postlethwaite, Jacob Stockdale, Jake Flannery, Nathan Doak;

(1-8): Eric O’Sullivan, Tom Stewart, Scott Wilson, Harry Sheridan, Alan O’Connor, Dave Ewers, Marcus Rea, Dave McCann.

Replacements: John Andrew, Andrew Warwick, Tom O’Toole, Cormac Izuchukwu, Greg Jones, John Cooney, Billy Burns, Ethan McIlroy.

Here's a more credible rumour for you

Whispers that Doak says he doesn't want to move to 10

geoff999rugby wrote:Here's a more credible rumour for you

Whispers that Doak says he doesn't want to move to 10

I'm with Doak on that one.

geoff999rugby wrote:
(15-9): Will Addison, Mike Lowry, James Hume, Jude Postlethwaite, Jacob Stockdale, Jake Flannery, Nathan Doak;

(1-8): Eric O’Sullivan, Tom Stewart, Scott Wilson, Harry Sheridan, Alan O’Connor, Dave Ewers, Marcus Rea, Dave McCann.

Replacements: John Andrew, Andrew Warwick, Tom O’Toole, Cormac Izuchukwu, Greg Jones, John Cooney, Billy Burns, Ethan McIlroy.

Oh look, we have an outhalf playing at 10 with another outhalf on the bench, there's a turn up for the books.
It'll be interesting to see how that starting front row goes, EOS short on gametime, Stewart having lots to prove etc. I'm very happy to see young Wilson get a start, what a season it's been for him.
I've now become a fan of Lowry on the wing, he's a busy wee player and emptied a couple of much bigger lads in the tackle last week.

Yeah, feeling a little more confident for tomorrow night now.

Tomorrow will be the rebirth of EOS. Like a phoenix he shall soar and be a titan in the scrum. Big Wilson will rampage like a wild boar. Toms arrows will be straight and true.
Harry and Dave will lead the charge.
Jude will make everyone feel bad Leinster are spending so much money on Barrett.
Stockdale will explode into life, with the past few seasons fueling his desire to score.

Or we will try really hard and still lose . Fu*ked if I know but I like living in blind hope on a Thursday

geoff999rugby wrote:Here's a more credible rumour for you

Whispers that Doak says he doesn't want to move to 10

Its ok he wont have too. The Doak and Flannery as OHs is just smoke and mirrors to prevent more questions after leeting Burns go.

After Ulster didnt renew Burns contract what did you expect Ulster to say? If said plans are in place speculation would have been rife. They have to say sometging to cool any speculation and saying playing Doak and Flannery next year does that.

So regardless of how baseless it is, has anyone any idea if Aaron Cruden still 'has it'?
He's no spring chicken for sure, but don't forget Sexton was 37/38 when he retired, and without a decline in his ability.

50 New Zealand caps is crazy, especially considering what other New Zealand out-halves overlapped their careers with his.

It doesn't solve much long term, but part of me still would love to see what our backline could do with a high calibre out-half.
Does Aaron Cruden still fit that description? And how much of this is nonsense altogether.

If you read anything into this piece it would seem he definitely still does 'have it'.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/provincial/132826786/why-proud-manawat-man-aaron-cruden-is-making-shock-npc-return-for-waikato

Whether we have the budget to uproot him to spend a season or two in Belfast is another thing altogether.

To take him as a player at his age would be an awful decision in my view

geoff999rugby wrote:To take him as a player at his age would be an awful decision in my view

It probably would, he'd be a far better player than Burns ever could be but at his age he could only be used sparingly. Sexton played into his elder years because of careful management, only being rolled out for the big games. We can't afford to pay a premium wage for a player we'd rarely see. What he might pass on to Flannery would be invaluable, just not that invaluable. We definitely need a 10 that can play most weeks with Flannery backing him up.
I just don't get it with Flannery, has his time under Dan McF robbed him of the promise he had shown at Munster? Can Ritchie get him to show that promise again?

Id rather have Flannery, Doak, Lowry and Humphreys (on a development contract) than employ Cruden.

Past it, too expensive and cronic short termism

I can't disagree on the short termism, but we don't actually know what he'd cost, or how 'past it' he actually is.

I agree, if it were a choice between Cruden and some young up and comer like a Byrne, Frawley, or Pendergast - I'd take the young up and comer and build.

But if it were a choice between Cruden and Doak, I think we would be daft to choose Doak.
Yes, it would be short termism, but we've a whole team to rebuild - and the rest of the team will progress better both physically and psychologically with a top rate 10.

But, our failure to agree on this is irrelevant - we can revisit the debate, if anything further resurfaces of this rumour.

Outside Japan he has played 4 games in 4 years

That comfortably meets my criteria of past it, and some

Ulster have extended the window for season ticketholders to renew to the middle of May.

That presumably is a sign that numbers renewing are not good. Hardly a surprise when some of the prices are rising and they aren't providing value for money on the field

Yeah they have always had pretty good attendances in years gone by. Ulster really need to sort out their attack next season. Aside from kicks to the corner they dont look like offering much else....

But that was try saving from Ulster - Cardiff will be kicking themselves if they lose this.

silly penalty - cardiff should go in front here again

Not sure why they are keeping Belcher on for 80 - surely a 2 sub has to come.....

and as i type it they replace belcher.....lloyd looks a prospect at 2

and cabango finshes it off - they are checking but that could be the end of it

looks like a try to me - wow thats a incredible call - even trimble mentions he thinks its fine.....Adamson has given a penalty as well to ulster and a card.

That might be the worst call of the season. And it fairness Ulster dont deserve this win based on how they played the second half....just terrible

Adamson has a lot to answer for - i dont bag refs often but even the most one eyed ulster fan has to say he was poor today.

Personally the URC need to look at ref performances because i'd be pulling my hair out if i was Sheratt right now..

Cardiff though did have some really clear cut chances in that second half to win this game comfortably so it should never have come down to this.

But in fairness the penatly count was totally one sided to ulster and i tend to be big on the offside line and I counted at least 10+ time ulster were totally offside in defence..and some of those were pretty blatent as well.... and how many did adamson gave....1

Luckily im not a Cardiff fan - but I would be peeved if i was....

Right I will try and find some positives from that game........
Sheridan. Yeah that's it really. And MacCan. Other than that pretty bang average.
Mike lowrey looked alright too

agree with you on those. Lowry i thought did a lot of good work on attack. But even when they line break they dont look like they can score in open play.....its a bit of a worry.

But what is up with Stockdale - he looks like he has lost the gas that made him such a great player.....at times he looks like a flanker on the wing...

geoff999rugby wrote:Outside Japan he has played 4 games in 4 years

That comfortably meets my criteria of past it, and some

Why discount his time in Japan though? Okay it's not the highest standard (though improving each season) but it's a very serious league. The Wild Knights thrashed the chiefs in a cross border match earlier in the season, for instance. We've seen players come back from Japan and return to their high standards quickly.

Was pretty much a 2nd XV Ulster started, and were very very lucky to get the win, hopefully see improvement over the next few weeks. Its been a long long time since Ulster won at the death like that, have lost plenty in last few years so nice to see it for a change.

Cruden rumour is at least a step up from AJ McGinty, and a break in Japan is good at lengthing Careers season there takes lot less of a toll than season in Top 14, but wouldn't be too happy if Cruden signed, can't see why would be allowed a NIQ OH now and not years past, and if getting one even short term must be able to do better.

Some thoughts on McIlroy. I think he is a good player but, he seems a bit to slow for wing, doesn't have the kicking game for 15 but not physical enough for centre.
All of which is a shame as he makes good decisions and has very good positional sense just missing one or two things that would make him great

I actually thought Addison played one of his better games. He keeps showing glimpses of what he was always capable of. It’s such a pity he was plagued with injury so badly.

Same with Lowry. Actually… now I think on it, most of our players did ok on an individual level, but perhaps it was mostly our failure to connect with each other that hindered us.

For all Lowry’s brilliant dancing feet, it doesn’t necessarily benefit us much unless we capitalise, either through clean line break, offload, or quick recycled ball.

And we did try a few offloads at times, but perhaps the wrong times. I do think we miss McCloskey. I think he would have created much more in a game like that.

Moving Doak from 9 to 10 mid game made the difference as stark as ever. Good to see Burns back.

Izzy’s try saver was a great moment.

Here look… I don’t know where this weird positivity has come from, it’s not like me…
… but we edged a must-win game, and did it without Hendy, Treadwell, Herring, Kitshoff, Timoney, S Moore, McCloskey, Balacoune.

Your right though. Individual we were on the most part good. Collectively there was glimpses, but to many not quite being on the same wavelength.
And it was hard to judge as Cardiff were very similar to ourselves. Some very good individual performances but they collectively made some shocking choices.
On reflection neither team deserved to lose, but equally neither really did enough to say they should have won.
The true definition of a 50/50 game

Did we play well individually? Sheridan played well, maybe McCann and then when Cooney and Burns came on they played well. That was really about it. A few other glimpses of good play.

Doak missed a penalty to touch when he was only about 15 metres away from the line, he dropped another penalty kick in field before that too.

The kicking was regularly too long out of hand, decisions being made when to kick where also poor.

Addisson threw a simple pass half a mile forward that would have put us away.

The ball was dropped left, right and centre by numerous players on a dry evening and regularly with no pressure either.

The tackling was shocking as a collective.

The reality of last night is we were a lot of players missing and that hurt us but Cardiff are a shocking team and that's the only reason we won, they were by far the better team.

Ulster are not playing well, they got thumped by Clermont and beat Montpellier only because of their poor discilpline, last night they were outplayed by a team that hasn't won a game since the 26th December.

Ulster are playing poorly right now, regardless of injuries (which don't help) the best we can hope for is that a real shake up comes in the summer and we start to show some glimpses next year of a recovery. It will be several years at the best before we start looking anything like a top team again.

Andrews, Izzy, Cooney, Burns coming on saved the game - they were all a marked improvement on the players they replaced.

Sheridan and McCann were the stand out players again.
Sheridan has the dog about him ala POM - we need that.
McCann also very cute in mentioning to the referee that there was a  possible knock on at the end.
Not only excellent players - but smart players.

We need to build next year pack around Wilson, Izzy, Sheridan, McCann and Timoney.
with old hands Herring and Henderson bringing the experience.

Half backs - who knows but Cooney remains the best 9 for me.
Postlewaite did quite well, McIlroy had a decent game and Addison was steady
The outstanding back though was Lowry.

Stockdale mixed the sublime with the pathetic - is his head right ?
Stewart was responsible for the first, very soft, try - Ewers had the 10 covered, he should have helped Wilson out on the inside channel

On the last few minutes.
I suspect the Prop did get a slight touch and that is why it hit McIlroy's arm.
Having said that I don't see how you can say it was clear and obvious by any stretch of the imagination.
On the other hand Nigel Owens said it was correct decision - make of that what you will

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Outside Japan he has played 4 games in 4 years

That comfortably meets my criteria of past it, and some

Why discount his time in Japan though? Okay it's not the highest standard (though improving each season) but it's a very serious league. The Wild Knights thrashed the chiefs in a cross border match earlier in the season, for instance. We've seen players come back from Japan and return to their high standards quickly.

Because it still not cutting edge rugby - more Harlem Globetrotters/Barbarians that top flight rugby.
A lot of older players going there having fun and getting very well paid for it - rather the white heat of top competitiveness.

I have to wonder is Murphy playing a blinder - plays Doak for a few games - he struggles and he also lets it be known he would rather play 9.

Gives Flannery a go and he is poor.

Hopefully Murphy is saying look I've tried the only options - none of them cut it.

If Doak does stick with 9 that means we will have 5 Scrum Halves next year
- does this mean Shanahan is back in the discard pile?

I know Burns isnt that highly rated by most Ulster fans but you could tell the difference his experience and skill made for them when he came off the bench. He knows how to run a backline. Ulster will need to address the 10 position for next season. They need to take the pressure a bit off Doak as he looks a little lacking in confidence even at 9 at the moment. Getting him a good 10 would help that and the rest of the Ulster backline.

Stockdale looks to have lost that pace though. I wonder if the SA wing will end up tacking his place in the starting 15 next season. He looks a shadow of himself at the moment.

But from what ive seen the real issue is in the pack. Cardiff dominated them in the tight 5 during set piece and Cardiff dont really have a good tight 5 themselves.

Ive said this before but if your going to be competitive in this league you really need 4 top end props. 80 min props are no longer a thing and the guys coming off the bench need to be as good as the ones starting if you want to beat the best sides in the league.

Plus side for Ulster they did have a good performance of players in the bench who made a impact to the result.

As I said though they need to work on finishing line breaks. They had a few but ended up not finishing chances off or breaking down with errors. Good sides finish those off. Its an area Cardiff were much better than Ulster at. Realistically the chances Cardiff blew were a lot more likely to result in tries.

As a neutral and watching it back I still feel Ulster got the rub of the ref. The penatly count was totally one sided and while the correct call at the end was made regarding the knock on, my issue with the ref is he simply did not ref Ulster at the offside line all game. Some were really blatent as well. They got away with it this week and that is how it goes sometimes. But in fairness had the ref done a better job the penalty count alone probably would have resulted in a Cardiff win.

But that's not their fault. Adamson is my least favourite ref in this league no matter which games he gets put in charge of. He's just not that good at reffing certain areas of the game at all. I do hope the Ref manager pulls him up on some of this because at a pro level you cant keep making the same errors every week. I'm not basing it on just this game btw - he has had the same issue for the last 2 seasons and I've lost count how many games this has been the case.

On the subject of the ref, the penalty count was 7-11 not that great a disparity, did he miss things? Yes like Cardiff players entering the ruck from the side and on at least two occasions actually joining the ruck from Ulster's side.
Is Adamson a good ref? No. Is he a corrupt ref like some of the more "interesting" twitter accounts have been claiming,? Also no.

A more interesting stat is turnovers. Cardiff won 19 turnovers, but didn't make them count, possession and territory were pretty even, but a couple of crucial lineouts were fluffed by Cardiff.

It was a game of two teams not at there best desperately looking for a win.

And as for the ending, carre had him lined up and should have smashed Mcilroy into next week. Swiping his pig paw at the ball always ran the risk of it going wrong.

Is he a

On the key penalty call that disallowed the try - I agree that none of the angles that showed it were definitive. But what we do know is the ball went wayward, and the big prop had his hand up attempting to make it go wayward.
Ultimately, the prop was never intercepting that, so whether he clearly made contact or not, I suspect it was a sum of his intent, plus the ball going loose that helped the ref to arrive at the conclusion.

The prop is still at fault for the penalty due to his action, regardless of whether we have evidence he definitely interfered with the ball. I don't think anyone would deny he was hoping to interfere with the ball.

What was interesting is Nigel Owens weighed in on the Young tackle on social media over the weekend. The try saving tackle was illegal and should have resulted in at least a penalty. He stated when a player is grounding the ball the laws state it is illegal to dislodge the ball with your feet/legs. In his eyes it was at least a penalty. Fans did say it was accidental to which he replied it didn't matter as the law was clear on this. Intent had no baring on the law.

Given he was one of the best refs the game ever produced and based on the above Ulster were very lucky. My question here though would have been was Adamson even aware of this law? Had a try been awarded at that stage, Cardiff would have won that game.

I’ll admit, I did question the legality of it. So actually, I’m not surprised to hear that law. I find it interesting though, that if he swung his legs under the ball it would have counted as held up, but actually dislodging the ball in the same action is illegal.

But hey, trylines tend to make the regular rules go out the window.
Sure there’s ‘high hits’ and ‘no arms tackles’ repeatedly when you have pick and go attempts diving for the line.

That always annoyed me. Like Nigel says, the law is the law, black and white. So why do we ignore the black and white for tryline pick and go defence. ‍�

I just found it interesting that there are a few things were interpretation can be a thing with different refs. My concern though is the black and white rules should be refed that way. I suspect maybe not all the refs are fully aware of all the rules currently. That would be a concern for me moving forward.

I'm not bagging Ulster by the way. This sort of thing happens to loads of teams every season.

And I don't want to be to harsh on refs either. I have said previously if we really want the best quality of refs they probably need to be full time to allow them to develop their profession properly. At least at that point they can held properly accountable as well when they get things wrong.