Ulster 2023/2024 Season

First topic message reminder :

For the good, the bad and the ugly of Ulster rugby this season. Lets hope mostly good.

Hanrahan will not be playing till early 2025 - ACL

Ross Kane stats:

21/22 - 8 bench appearances
22/23 - nothing
23/24 - 1 start, 1 bench appearance

He has been released for a reason

No No No to Kane coming back please, let's move forward and sign at the very least a passable TH. A good club player will do, someone that can solidify the set piece with no reverse gear. A decent 10 is another must and there are very few around. Morgan has to dislodge Cameron who has broken into the ABs in the past and Love who's come through fantastically at full back and can also cover 10 with ease. If he pictures himself caught behind those 2 for the 10 and seeing more of the bench than the pitch then he could well be tempted with an Irish cap a possibility. He's very fast, has a great read of the game and plays up to the line in attack brilliantly. He is however in the Mikey Lowry size and weight category, not a show stopper but a worry until we see if he fits with Ulster well. It would be a big risk signing him but a better risk than some of the other 10s floating around who aren't even IQ.

Prendergast to Connacht wouldn't make any sense, surely Leinster would be more likely to offload Harry Byrne for a bit than their golden boy in waiting. Maybe Sam's been chatting with his brother about flat sharing for a few months. Whether the rumours are accurate or not it's once again Ulster being left to tread water when in need of a player when the Connachts and Munsters of this world get a helping hand every time. Where's Davy Humps when you need him?

Kane's stats show what we need to know - he is no longer fit for purpose.
Prendergast may, sadly, be one of a long line of Leinster player who don't want to come north.
As I've mentioned before only Jordi Murphy has made the move while under contract.

geoff999rugby wrote:Hanrahan will not be playing till early 2025 - ACL

Ross Kane stats:

21/22 - 8 bench appearances
22/23 - nothing
23/24 - 1 start, 1 bench appearance

He has been released for a reason

Your going by all.rugby, which doesn't list championship game, last season with Ulster 8 sub appearances, and 2 games in the premipersip cup, and may have played every game in the championship for 2 seasons?

You are quite right
is it only 2 years since he left us ? - seems longer to me

Unfortunately the Trailfinders website is hopeless to establish how many games he has played

Still begs the question why was he released

geoff999rugby wrote:
Still begs the question why was he released

Ealing have released more than 20 players. Perhaps freeing up budget to upgrade the ground so that they can go again at making the Prem when they meet the criteria. Ealing were the best payers in the Championship but it's not to say they were better than teams in bigger leagues so some of those might be off on better deals.

Can't remember any tears when he left Ulster at first and I would have love to see Toomga-Allen back but realistically are going to sign IQ players and there arnt many. Really surprised Byrne went to Cardiff over Ulster.

Any examples of an Irish player going over the water and improving their international career?

Tadhg Byrne?

Out of curiosity, was Tommy Bowe an established and regular starting Irish international before moving to the Ospreys? I can't remember as I'm a few beers deep this evening

clivemcl wrote:Any examples of an Irish player going over the water and improving their international career?

Tadhg Byrne?

Geordan Murphy. Went from being told he wasn't good enough to make the Leinster academy to heading over to study at DMU and then progressing through Tigers into the first team and winning Ireland and Lions caps.

Maine man wrote:Out of curiosity, was Tommy Bowe an established and regular starting Irish international before  moving to the Ospreys? I can't remember as I'm a few beers deep this evening

Tommy, despite clearly being the best Irish 14 was not regularly selected by that clampit Kidney. Geordan Murphy was being selected out of position ahead of him and sometimes Andrew Trimble, our very well known Left winger was being played at 14. Tommy felt that his face didn't fit and accepted the offer at Ospreys. That last bit was from the horses mouth, face to face while having a couple of pints with him and Shane Williams in Swansea.

So we've got a new kit sponsor but at a much reduced rate just when we need the cash. The BT doesn't give actual figures but they've described it as another financial blow so it's not a couple of quid. It's Castore instead of Kukri, I've always hated Kukri kit but Castore don't get rave reviews either.

Aston Villa in the soccer have cut short their deal with Castore because of poor quality kit, not really ideal but I suppose we can but give them a fair shake at it.

I assumed the kit sponsor rate would be much reduced and assumed the people in charge would likely have factored that into calculations too, although maybe I assuming too much in their business acumen.

Castore make the Leinster kits too

Aidan Morgan it is then with Murphy Jnr joining the academy. Big risk with Morgan only being a cub and fairly small but hopefully a risk that pays off.

As I said before, that's the very next best outcome other than an IQ out-half moving. And there is a possibility Morgan turns out to be a better 10 than Pendergast/Frawley/Byrnes etc.

Unless you're a purist, IQ is IQ. And if you are a purist, blame the Leinster boys for not moving up the road, not Ulster for doing what they have to to compete.

I'm a curious fellow though.

Cruden is not IQ, and in terms of age, he is the complete opposite of Morgan.

Were Ulster just genuinely trying to find ANYONE. Or was the Cruden thing, just to get a headline out - effectively putting a bat signal up to the southern hemisphere that Ulster were looking a 10?

I'd love to see a behind the scenes of how this all went down from Burns departure, to McFarland leaving, to the Doak experiment, the search for a 10, and ultimately the signing of Morgan.

Here's hoping he can thrive at his new club, and at 22, he could find a home and full career long club, if he fits in well.

clivemcl wrote:As I said before, that's the very next best outcome other than an IQ out-half moving. And there is a possibility Morgan turns out to be a better 10 than Pendergast/Frawley/Byrnes etc.

Unless you're a purist, IQ is IQ. And if you are a purist, blame the Leinster boys for not moving up the road, not Ulster for doing what they have to to compete.

I'm a curious fellow though.

Cruden is not IQ, and in terms of age, he is the complete opposite of Morgan.

Were Ulster just genuinely trying to find ANYONE. Or was the Cruden thing, just to get a headline out - effectively putting a bat signal up to the southern hemisphere that Ulster were looking a 10?

I'd love to see a behind the scenes of how this all went down from Burns departure, to McFarland leaving, to the Doak experiment, the search for a 10, and ultimately the signing of Morgan.

Here's hoping he can thrive at his new club, and at 22, he could find a home and full career long club, if he fits in well.

The way that media works these days it's hard to gauge the validity of reporting so everything has to be taken with a bag of salt. The Cruden story could range from someone mentioning it in passing during a meeting to the player being fully engaged with the intention of signing them and everything else in between. The fact that Ulster actually went on the hunt for a 10 is a lot better than the news we were initially receiving on the subject. Morgan does look to be an bloody good talent, an attacking 10 with a lot of pace. He does have 2 genuinely gifted players blocking him in NZ so this move may prove to be the making of the guy. With regular gametime he might just show the Kiwis what they were missing. Obviously I very much hope that is the case.

Pete330v2 wrote:He does have 2 genuinely gifted players blocking him in NZ so this move may prove to be the making of the guy.

Seems to make sense, and this guy is prepared to move to the other side of the world, and yet Leinster boys won't commute an hour up the road.
Here's hoping Morgan get's more Irish International opportunities in the years ahead than those who thought Ulster wasn't good enough for them.

clivemcl wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:He does have 2 genuinely gifted players blocking him in NZ so this move may prove to be the making of the guy.

Seems to make sense, and this guy is prepared to move to the other side of the world, and yet Leinster boys won't commute an hour up the road.
Here's hoping Morgan get's more Irish International opportunities in the years ahead than those who thought Ulster wasn't good enough for them.

Now that would be fine karma although if he works out well I'd rather not lose him to the Irish squad leaving us short again. That being said with Murphy joining the academy perhaps he'll rise through the ranks over the next couple of seasons to have 2 lads fighting for the 10 spot both at Ulster and Ireland which wouldn't be too bad.

Jackman says we’ve got a lineout specialist on the way to the coaching ticket, a returnee.

He's also hinting Shaun Stevenson moving from the Chiefs to a province with Munster being mentioned in rumours. We get an unproven young 10 and Munster get a proven, classy outside back. What am I saying, I'll keep the whinging until it's verified but when it is I am going to whinge.

Pete330v2 wrote:Jackman says we’ve got a lineout specialist on the way to the coaching ticket, a returnee.

He's also hinting Shaun Stevenson moving from the Chiefs to a province with Munster being mentioned in rumours. We get an unproven young 10 and Munster get a proven, classy outside back. What am I saying, I'll keep the whinging until it's verified but when it is I am going to whinge.

Where did Jackman say that, Pete?

Don Alfonso wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:Jackman says we’ve got a lineout specialist on the way to the coaching ticket, a returnee.

He's also hinting Shaun Stevenson moving from the Chiefs to a province with Munster being mentioned in rumours. We get an unproven young 10 and Munster get a proven, classy outside back. What am I saying, I'll keep the whinging until it's verified but when it is I am going to whinge.

Where did Jackman say that, Pete?

He tweeted on X and the comments sections suggested the move (if there even is one) was rumoured to be Munster. It's probably all faff over nothing but Jackman has form for this kind of thing.

Sorry, no, about the lineout specialist.

Pete330v2 wrote:Jackman says we’ve got a lineout specialist on the way to the coaching ticket, a returnee.

He's also hinting Shaun Stevenson moving from the Chiefs to a province with Munster being mentioned in rumours. We get an unproven young 10 and Munster get a proven, classy outside back. What am I saying, I'll keep the whinging until it's verified but when it is I am going to whinge.

It says Bernard Jackman has highlighted New Zealand star Shaun Stevenson as a player the Irish provinces should look at signing.

He also said Ulster should look at AJ McGinty. Wouldnt listen when he says should look at.

Also in Rugby terms McGinty is NIQ

After the false start last week it looks like the Morgan signing now has some credibility
Being reported in multiple press circles.

Morgan confirmed for 2 years - Gtanda from Belfast

He certainly has some skills

Jimmy Duffy coming in as forwards coach. Good appointment.
Just need a backs and defence coach now

Don Alfonso wrote:Morgan confirmed for 2 years - Gtanda from Belfast

Bit of a punt. Not much experience at pro level. Could go either way that signing.

Probably the best they could do at 10 though unless they got a actual overseas non irish player. Not many good ones out of contract floating about either at the moment.

Welshmushroom wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:Morgan confirmed for 2 years - Gtanda from Belfast

Bit of a punt.  Not much experience at pro level.  Could go either way that signing.

Probably the best they could do at 10 though unless they got a actual overseas non irish player.  Not many good ones out of contract floating about either at the moment.

I was going to agree with all of this but then looked up his stats and he's actually played a reasonable amount more than I expected. Raw but not not quite the punt I'd initially thought.

He's obviously trusted by the Hurricanes, just not their first choice. Similarly he's trusted to take the kicks for Wellington but not the Canes.

He's played:

2021/22 - ~20 years old - 627 mins for Hurricanes 451 for Wellington
2022/23 - ~21 years old - 687 mins for Hurricanes 821 for Wellington

So he's getting or gotten game time. More game time that Frawley, H Bryne and Pendergrast got in previous years. But he obviously wants more. It's also gone a bit wrong for him this season.

2023/24 - ~22 years old - 230 mins for Hurricanes. That's almost entirely because they've played Brett Cameron for 80 mins straight for 9 out of 11 games he's played.

For comparison Flannery got 68 mins, 126 mins and 441 mins over the last 3 seasons.

Not forgetting that being caught behind Brett Cameron and Ruben Love does not mean he's not a great prospect. Put it like this, Billy Burns would be a break glass option behind those 2 so the fact Morgan has gotten decent game time and a few starts is promising. He does look a hell of a lot better than Harry Byrne and is more proven than Prendergast who will never develop unless something changes new year.

I'm cautiously optimistic about him coming. His size is something of concern at 10 with the prospect of some large lads being sent down his channel. He can definitely attack but can he defend? We'll find out next season, I'll be watching any Canes appearances with more than a little interest.

The single biggest positive is that he's prepared to move half the world away for more game time.

There are plenty Leinster players if you offered those minutes would happily stay put.

Keiran Treadwell has joined Bangor RFC as assistant forwards coach with a focus on lineouts.

The point I'm making at this stage in his career he could go either way. It's a gamble.

I also wouldnt read to much in to his Super Rugby minutes. Defence in Super rugby seems to be optional. Its a totally different game in the URC the last 3 seasons. I doubt he will get as much space and time as he would be used to. He may adjust but equally he may not. On the plus side he will have very good players around him in Cooney and McCluskey.

Hopefully Ulster have a good start to the season and he grows with confidence as every game carries on. The alternative if Ulster struggle may cause him to be under even more pressure.

That said he may have a good first season as most promising players tend to until there is enough analysis on them which usually causes a big dip in that second season.

So fingers crossed for Ulster for next season - except maybe against the Dragons

Welshmushroom wrote:The point I'm making at this stage in his career he could go either way.  It's a gamble.

I also wouldnt read to much in to his Super Rugby minutes.  Defence in Super rugby seems to be optional.  Its a totally different game in the URC the last 3 seasons.  I doubt he will get as much space and time as he would be used to.  He may adjust but equally he may not.  On the plus side he will have very good players around him in Cooney and McCluskey.  

Hopefully Ulster have a good start to the season and he grows with confidence as every game carries on.  The alternative if Ulster struggle may cause him to be under even more pressure.

That said he may have a good first season as most promising players tend to until there is enough analysis on them which usually causes a big dip in that second season.  

So fingers crossed for Ulster for next season - except maybe against the Dragons    

Hopefully with Ritchie Murphy and Jimmy Duffy's influence the forwards will have a little extra bite in them, they've already shown that they're better under Murphy so far. With that solid platform there should be an opportunity to build a fine half back partnership with Morgan linking well with Doak or Cooney (hopefully both). There's the ingredients to have a better season, if the coaching team can utilise those ingredients correctly we could have a much more competitive season next year. It could all hinge on Morgan, whether he fits into the Ulster side and if he can perform. He certainly had experience surrounding him with the likes of Cooney and McCloskey so fingers crossed.

On other news who is rugby's best goal kicker this season? RUGBY'S BEST

John Cooney with 87% of his kicks scored from scenarios where 77% is expected from a kicker. This adds up to Cooney outscoring the average kicker by 35 points from 143 kicks.

This was taken from all competitions, internationals included.

Team's up:

(15-9) Ethan McIlroy, Mike Lowry, Will Addison, Stuart McCloskey, Jacob Stockdale, Billy Burns, John Cooney;

(1-8) Eric O’Sullivan, Rob Herring, Tom O’Toole, Kieran Treadwell, Alan O’Connor (C), Cormac Izuchukwu, David McCann, Nick Timoney.

Replacements: Tom Stewart, Andy Warwick, Scott Wilson, Harry Sheridan, Matty Rea, Nathan Doak, Jude Postlethwaite, Stewart Moore.

As full strength as we'll get, big Izzy at 6 again is exciting. That pack should be OK, we could need something out of this, even a bonus point but hopefully the lads will be playing just for fun

Either they're taking absolutely no chances with Champions Cup qualification or Murphy isn't actually that adventurous in his selections. Happy to give him the benefit of the doubt (not least because he gave everyone a crack in the first 4 games or so) and say it's the former.

In my view we have to go full strength to ensure the CC qualification as there is some chance of a Lions win. At least the situation will be clear come kick off. Also if we did actually beat Munster as opposed to just getting a bonus point we would be the best Irish Province apparently, winning the Irish Shield. Would be good to have bragging rights on something, although I would concede such an outcome would be unlikely.

Unclear wrote:In my view we have to go full strength to ensure the CC qualification as there is some chance of a Lions win.  At least the situation will be clear come kick off.  Also if we did actually beat Munster as opposed to just getting a bonus point we would be the best Irish Province apparently, winning the Irish Shield.  Would be good to have bragging rights on something, although I would concede such an outcome would be unlikely.

Now the one team from each union has been removed for HCup qualification, the shields just count derbies. So really winning the Irish shield in the same as winning the old interprovincial league. I think it now is meaningful.

Don't see any point rotating players, they had a week off, its now full strength every game that we get.

Ritchie's influence has been immense in such a short time. It shows how much potential the squad had and how much they were being shackled by Dan McF. There's real fire in the guts and pride for the shirt back in the team not to mention the freedom they're playing with. Eric O'Sullivan's rebirth, Izzy being played in the right position, Lowry and Stockdale back to what we would expect. It's a shame we're losing Addison because with a little more gametime I reckon he'd be back to 100%, he's shown a lot of his old self even if he messed one spiral kick up really badly
The Dan factor must have been utterly toxic to all.

Anyway, Champs Cup next season and we're still in the fight in the URC. If Dan hadn't been shown the door I very much doubt this would be the case and a scenario like that could take a few seasons just to get back to where we look like we are now. Ritchie may not be the messiah but he's not far off

I’m always somewhat hesitant to give praise or criticism. No doubt performances have changed drastically since the change in coaching. But sometimes, at least in part, this can be down to the mentality/physchology of the players.

In the end, it’s apparent the change has indeed made a change. But how much of it was Dan’s poor ability or Murphy’s good ability remains to be seen.

It could be a good bit to do with players feeling low or uninspired by the previous man, and now, hopeful and reinvigorated with the new man.

I only say this because months is surely not a long enough time to give credit to coaching ability… or is it?

I do think a big part of the modern professional game is equipping your talented players with the best mentality and mindset - not just the tools.

However, I’m happy for those with a better knowledge than me to correct me and tell me Murphy has visibly changed our style of play etc.

Either way, feels like Ulster are already at a level we would have been happy to have rose to by end of next season, not this one.

The performances under Murphy have far exceeded everyone’s expectations.

This latest Ulster crisis may not have lasted very long.
Although an adequate replacement for Burns would help a lot. And who knows, Kok may also prove to be the equal of the departing Addison.

clivemcl wrote:  

The performances under Murphy have far exceeded everyone’s expectations.

Not mine - no more than I would expect from a half decent coach.
McFarland was toxic (To reinterate my own slanted view. Met him once and found him thoroughly unpleasant)
The transformation of O'Sullivan, Izzy, Baloucoune, Stackdale and O'Connor tells you all you need to know about McFalands man management skills.

clivemcl wrote:  
Although an adequate replacement for Burns would help a lot.

Morgan is the adequate replacement.
Burns was a decent fly half and by fr the best at the province but lets not get ahead of outrselves he was nothing special.
Of all our first choice back line he is the weakest link.
Morgan I would be confident can match that and hopefully go higher.

clivemcl wrote:  
And who knows, Kok may also prove to be the equal of the departing Addison.

Not a chance.
Kok is a great all energy utility back and will be an asset but he doesn't match Addison skill set  by some margin

Think there a bit to much Praise for Murphy and vilifing of DMcF.
Murphy took over a squad that finished 2nd last season, so weren't a poor team. But he has improved the style and has the back involved more and we don't just rely on the rolling maul like we did last season.

DMcF things did turn last couple seasons, before that he was doing an excellent job, finishing 2nd, 3rd, 2nd and 2nd in league and in first few season brought though a raft of young players, he steadied a basketcase and got the team playing very well.

It does seam he alienated some players and probably stayed two season too long, as even though finished 2nd the cracks were evident last season, and when made no changes tocoaching staff the writing was on the wall, we all could see it. If he had replaced Bell and brought in an attack coach (a seniorbone that wouldn't be worried about standing up to him and pushing some picks like EoS) things may have been very different.

Overall it was the home loss to Edinburgh and away loss to Ospreys that cost us being a top 4 team.

I still can't fanthom the decision to let Burns go, makes no sense what so ever and we have been very very lucky to pick up Aidan Morgan.

Burns i think is a decent player, better than credit is given for, but never top class. I think the way Murphy is changing the style of play and way we have played, hes been a good square peg in a round hole, Morgan looks to be a round peg, and maybe if not as good as Burns was yet, at least will suit the style of play better. If settles in well and plays well its not inconceivable that he'll get called into the wider Irish training squad as one of the 2 young players they usually pick to get a taste of camp.

Addison will be a loss, played the most games in a season this season since he signed for us. But at the time the decision had to be made to renew his contract or not, I think based on what we knrw then, it wouldbhave been to much of a risk.

Only one NIQ i think we'll see a lock come in to allow Izzy to continue at 6, and hopefully a TH like Toomga-Allen, though I have my doubts as to what we can/will get. Byrne going to Cardiff was a big surprise, can't see Cardiff offering more than Ulster could, and at least would have been in Irish set up, but its done and we'll have to see. Maybe Lyttle may come back?
Overall I'm going into next

Fro me its not so much tactics but his man management skills that get McFarland a negative from me.

If he had stayed I am 100% convinced that either this summer or next we would have lost O'Sullivan, O'Connor and Izzy.

Its not inconceivable that Cooney, Stockdale and Baloucoune would have been thinking about it as well.

As I said I met the man and did not like the cut of his jib one bit.

Saw this on twitter, interesting stats.

Aidan Morgan ranking against other fly halves in the 2023 NPC:

Carries: 119 | 1st
Metres Gained: 504 | 3rd
Defenders Beaten: 20 | 4th
Line Breaks: 6 | =1st
Try Assists: 7 | 1st
Offloads: 18 | 1st
Line Break Assists: 5 | =4th

Which kind of confirms he is a running back not a kicking one.
For Penalties thats fine - we have Cooney and Doak
However we really suffer because Burns kicking out of hand is poor distance wise.

Need to employ the likes of Stockdale, Hume, Moore and McCloskey more - they all have big boots.

geoff999rugby wrote:Which kind of confirms he is a running back not a kicking one.
For Penalties thats fine - we have Cooney and Doak
However we really suffer because Burns kicking out of hand is poor distance wise.

Need to employ the likes of Stockdale, Hume, Moore and McCloskey more - they all have big boots.

I think it was the red hand podcast that I listened to that stated Ulster have kicked much less under Murphy, particularly to touch. Now it doesn't mean that his eventual plan will be for Ulster to run the ball more often than not but with the signing of Morgan perhaps there's certainly going to be more of an emphasis on that kind of game. As you said Geoff there are plenty of kicking options that can be used that don't have to come from 10. Look how Leinster and Ireland use Lowe's siege gun boot, Ulster rarely goes to Stockdale's hoof which is similarly large.

Team's Up:

(15-9) Stewart Moore, Mike Lowry, Will Addison, Stuart McCloskey, Jacob Stockdale, Billy Burns, John Cooney;

(1-8) Eric O’Sullivan, Rob Herring (C), Tom O’Toole, Harry Sheridan, Cormac Izuchukwu, Matty Rea, David McCann, Nick Timoney.

Replacements: Tom Stewart, Andy Warwick, Scott Wilson, Greg Jones, Dave Ewers, Nathan Doak, Ethan McIlroy, Jude Postlethwaite.

Vs

15. Jimmy O’Brien (80)
14. Jordan Larmour (106)
13. Robbie Henshaw (90)
12. Jamie Osborne (46)
11. James Lowe (79)
10. Ross Byrne (160)
9. Jamison Gibson-Park (140)
1. Andrew Porter (120)
2. Dan Sheehan (62)
3. Tadhg Furlong (145)
4. Joe McCarthy (33)
5. James Ryan (81) CAPTAIN
6. Ryan Baird (69)
7. Josh van der Flier (141)
8. Caelan Doris (81) Replacements:

16. Rónan Kelleher (63)
17. Cian Healy (277)
18. Michael Ala’alatoa (70)
19. Ross Molony (182)
20. Max Deegan (112)
21. Luke McGrath (210)
22. Sam Prendergast (17)
23. Ciarán Frawley (87)

(15-9) Stewart Moore, Mike Lowry, Will Addison, Stuart McCloskey, Jacob Stockdale, Billy Burns, John Cooney;

(1-8) Eric O’Sullivan, Rob Herring (C), Tom O’Toole, Harry Sheridan, Cormac Izuchukwu, Matty Rea, David McCann, Nick Timoney.

Replacements: Tom Stewart, Andy Warwick, Scott Wilson, Greg Jones, Dave Ewers, Nathan Doak, Ethan McIlroy, Jude Postlethwaite.

Really desimated in the second row - shown by the fact Greg Jones is covering.
Shows that Reffell and Marcus Rea not trusted for the big games - otherwise one of them would have started and Matty Rea would covered Lock.
Either that or Matty Rea has impressed sufficiently that Murphy feels he deserves the start - to be fair he has played well recently.