Ulster 2023/2024 Season

First topic message reminder :

For the good, the bad and the ugly of Ulster rugby this season. Lets hope mostly good.

Actually forgot about Kock he can play 13

Added Kok as a back three player as wing is more his position.

Given Moore is often needed as a 15 - the points remain valid

carpet baboon wrote:I think we can assume Stu goes to South Africa in the summer. So we could realistically start the season with just Jude and Moore available as centers.
Stockdale to 13???? Not sure that would work.
De Klerk and Bremman next ones I guess ( have they signed?)
Could be interesting

I think Stockdale at 13 is highly likely given he has lost a a yard of pace.
De Klerk and Berman will be in the Academy - they will get the odd game like McNabney and McLoughlin did this year but a stretch to see them filling a position

Leading on from what I said earlier about signing Morgan and him ending up closer to starting for Ireland than the 4th choice at Leinster who refuses to move...

How many non-Irish born players have Ulster signed who ended up with Ireland caps??

Herring, Treadwell, Burns, Addison...

Any others?


And all because they got gametime and opportunity to shine.

I don't get these players insistent on remaining squad backup players and potentially delaying their ceiling and career opportunities.

Leinster must be doing a great job making each of them believe they are only a season away from being a nailed on starter..

clivemcl wrote:Leading on from what I said earlier about signing Morgan and him ending up closer to starting for Ireland than the 4th choice at Leinster who refuses to move...

How many non-Irish born players have Ulster signed who ended up with Ireland caps??

Herring, Treadwell, Burns, Addison...

Any others?


And all because they got gametime and opportunity to shine.

I don't get these players insistent on remaining squad backup players and potentially delaying their ceiling and career opportunities.

Leinster must be doing a great job making each of them believe they are only a season away from being a nailed on starter..

I can only imagine that being part of club that at the very least tops tables, reaches finals and in all likelihood wins silverware is more attractive than being in a squad that doesn't even if it means only being in the wider reaches of the squad. Even just being associated with Leinster, arguably the best NH club side must have some pull on it.
I had always thought that rugby players wanted primarily to play rugby. Some it seems are happy not to if they can stand on the top step of podiums they played little part in achieving. Ultimate obscurity means little if you have a story to tell the grandkids perhaps.

I'm assuming given Murphy has come out and said Ulster will have a fairly young side next season, I'm assuming means he won't be heavy on any signings this summer.

I'm guessing that means next season might be a little tougher than this year was for Ulster. Some of the teams around their standing have already made some stronger signings for next season so I would imagine sides like Edinburgh and Benetton may very well overtake them next year.

Where do Ulster fans think they will end up next season? Challenging for top 8 or mid table below that?

Welshmushroom wrote:I'm assuming given Murphy has come out and said Ulster will have a fairly young side next season, I'm assuming means he won't be heavy on any signings this summer.

I'm guessing that means next season might be a little tougher than this year was for Ulster. Some of the teams around their standing have already made some stronger signings for next season so I would imagine sides like Edinburgh and Benetton may very well overtake them next year.

Where do Ulster fans think they will end up next season? Challenging for top 8 or mid table below that?

There will be, injury profile allowing, a pretty solid core group of players for next season who will undoubtedly perform much better under Murphy then Dan McF. This added to the young lads on the periphery as well as a couple of lower key signings should make us pretty optimistic. There will be a solid dose of realism to dampen any positive feelings and keep expectations grounded, there's rebuilding going on after all. If we can find a half decent 10, a functioning one at the very least we might just be OK. The signing of such a player might hinge on us playing in the Champs Cup next year so there's 2 very difficult matches coming to decide that. A few bonus points would be nice, an unlikely win even better.
The teams around us may well be making signings but that doesn't automatically improve a side, there's more to it than just that so if we can maintain the current trajectory, manage to avoid an injury crisis and introduce the youth in an intelligent way then we should at least emulate this season and fight for a top 8 spot. That's my semi-optimistic take on it anyway.

As things stand the squad next year, including Development players is:

LHP – Eric O’Sullivan,Andrew Warwick, Callum Reid
Hooker – James McCormick, Rob Herring, John Andrew, Tom Stewart
THP - Marty Moore, Scott Wilson (Dev), Tom O’Toole
Lock - Alan O’Connor, Iain Henderson, Kieran Treadwell, Cormac Izuchukwu,
Backrow - Matthew Rea, Reuben Crothers, Nick Timoney, David McCann, Harry Sheridan,
              Sean Reffell, Lorcan McLoughlin (Dev), James McNabney (Dev), Marcus Rea
SH –Dave Shanahan, Michael McDonald, John Cooney, Conor McKee, Nathan Doak
FH - Jake Flannery
Centre - Stuart McCloskey, James Hume, Jude Postlewaite
Wingers - Robert Baloucoune, Aaron Sexton, Jacob Stockdale
Back 3 Player - Ethan McIlroy, Michael Lowry
Utility Backs - Stewart Moore, Ben Moxham, Werner Kok

Thats 37 Full professionals + 3 Development players
What those figures hard is the good numbers at Hooker, Backrow and Scrum half - they are 16 Full professionals + 2 Development players
That leaves 21 Full Professionals + 1 Development players covering 10 positions - WAIFER THIN !

What stands out is the essentially need to sign, or promote, more Props and even more sign a credible 10
Third choice 10 will be anyone from Lowry, Cooney and Doak.
Thats hard enough - if they were our second choice its a car crash

Isn't there rumours Murphy is bringing his son (the flyhalf) to Ulster with him, is he enough of a prospect to step into the 10 shirt?

formerly known as Sam wrote:Isn't there rumours Murphy is bringing his son (the flyhalf) to Ulster with him, is he enough of a prospect to step into the 10 shirt?

At best third choice - way too early to throw him in at the deep end

Whilst playing for Leinster is a huge advantage it is not helping Deegan.

If you disagree you have to answere the question
'Why were Timoney, Prendergast and Coombes all in front of him when Farrell was selecting and reducing his squad
for the World Cup?'

As I said before he is far better player than Coombes and a better 8 than either of the other 2

Update to the over 28 list

Herring 34
Warwick 33
Moore 33
Henderson 32
McCloskey 31
O'Connor 31
Kok 31
Matty Rea 30
Shanahan 30
Andrew 30

geoff999rugby wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Isn't there rumours Murphy is bringing his son (the flyhalf) to Ulster with him, is he enough of a prospect to step into the 10 shirt?

At best third choice - way too early to throw him in at the deep end

If they are good enough they are old enough. Ford was a starter 20, Fin Smith 19 and Marcus Smith at 18.

Murphy has never played for Leinster.
He only has a handful of U-20 games under his belt

Ford played for Leicester 3 years younger than Murphy is now.
Smith was also younger.
Russell was playing 2nd grade rugby at an earlier stage.

Their career trajectories are very different.

geoff999rugby wrote:Murphy has never played for Leinster.
He only has a handful of U-20 games under his belt

Ford played for Leicester 3 years younger than Murphy is now.
Smith was also younger.
Russell was playing 2nd grade rugby at an earlier stage.

Their career trajectories are very different.

All true but Leinster is so overstocked with talent, particularly at 10 that Frawley has been turned into a utility back and there are still two international flyhalfs before Pendergast gets a look in. Might be a couple of years before Murphy gets a go at Leinster and you find one way or the other. If Ulster rate him then let Steenson be a mentor and sign a journeyman to help cover.

Not sure what anyone sees in Prendergast. The few games I've see him play he wasn't that impressive. Doesn't play the gainline either so not really a running threat either. At his age most of the really great fly halves already showed glimpses of what made them great.

I do think the 5 year residency rule has had a big impact in terms of recruiting with a view to make them internationals. Think that rule will impact a lot of nations moving forward.

geoff999rugby wrote:As things stand the squad next year, including Development players is:

LHP – Eric O’Sullivan,Andrew Warwick, Callum Reid
Hooker – James McCormick, Rob Herring, John Andrew, Tom Stewart
THP - Marty Moore, Scott Wilson (Dev), Tom O’Toole
Lock - Alan O’Connor, Iain Henderson, Kieran Treadwell, Cormac Izuchukwu,
Backrow - Matthew Rea, Reuben Crothers, Nick Timoney, David McCann, Harry Sheridan,
              Sean Reffell, Lorcan McLoughlin (Dev), James McNabney (Dev), Marcus Rea
SH –Dave Shanahan, Michael McDonald, John Cooney, Conor McKee, Nathan Doak
FH - Jake Flannery
Centre - Stuart McCloskey, James Hume, Jude Postlewaite
Wingers - Robert Baloucoune, Aaron Sexton, Jacob Stockdale
Back 3 Player - Ethan McIlroy, Michael Lowry
Utility Backs - Stewart Moore, Ben Moxham, Werner Kok

Thats 37 Full professionals + 3 Development players
What those figures hard is the good numbers at Hooker, Backrow and Scrum half - they are 16 Full professionals + 2 Development players
That leaves 21 Full Professionals + 1 Development players covering 10 positions - WAIFER THIN !

What stands out is the essentially need to sign, or promote, more Props and even more sign a credible 10
Third choice 10 will be anyone from Lowry, Cooney and Doak.
Thats hard enough - if they were our second choice its a car crash

Connacht have a 43 man playing squad for next season.

Guess playing squad includes development contracts. So still 3 less that what even Connacht have currently.

Welshmushroom wrote:Not sure what anyone sees in Prendergast.  The few games I've see him play he wasn't that impressive.  Doesn't play the gainline either so not really a running threat either.  At his age most of the really great fly halves already showed glimpses of what made them great.  

I do think the 5 year residency rule has had a big impact in terms of recruiting with a view to make them internationals.  Think that rule will impact a lot of nations moving forward.

We just leave the Nigel Owens actually agreed with us Ulster fans, in the least said soonest mended category.

Welshmushroom wrote:Not sure what anyone sees in Prendergast.  The few games I've see him play he wasn't that impressive.  Doesn't play the gainline either so not really a running threat either.  At his age most of the really great fly halves already showed glimpses of what made them great.  

I do think the 5 year residency rule has had a big impact in terms of recruiting with a view to make them internationals.  Think that rule will impact a lot of nations moving forward.

To some extent I agree.
I was trying to not be controversial when I said Deegan was better than Coombes but to be honest if push came to shove I'd take him over Prendergast as well
Deegan is a a better player than bothn - maybe Deegan should leave Leinster to improve his Irish propsects

Kingshu wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:As things stand the squad next year, including Development players is:

LHP – Eric O’Sullivan,Andrew Warwick, Callum Reid
Hooker – James McCormick, Rob Herring, John Andrew, Tom Stewart
THP - Marty Moore, Scott Wilson (Dev), Tom O’Toole
Lock - Alan O’Connor, Iain Henderson, Kieran Treadwell, Cormac Izuchukwu,
Backrow - Matthew Rea, Reuben Crothers, Nick Timoney, David McCann, Harry Sheridan,
              Sean Reffell, Lorcan McLoughlin (Dev), James McNabney (Dev), Marcus Rea
SH –Dave Shanahan, Michael McDonald, John Cooney, Conor McKee, Nathan Doak
FH - Jake Flannery
Centre - Stuart McCloskey, James Hume, Jude Postlewaite
Wingers - Robert Baloucoune, Aaron Sexton, Jacob Stockdale
Back 3 Player - Ethan McIlroy, Michael Lowry
Utility Backs - Stewart Moore, Ben Moxham, Werner Kok

Thats 37 Full professionals + 3 Development players
What those figures hard is the good numbers at Hooker, Backrow and Scrum half - they are 16 Full professionals + 2 Development players
That leaves 21 Full Professionals + 1 Development players covering 10 positions - WAIFER THIN !

What stands out is the essentially need to sign, or promote, more Props and even more sign a credible 10
Third choice 10 will be anyone from Lowry, Cooney and Doak.
Thats hard enough - if they were our second choice its a car crash

Connacht have a 43 man playing squad for next season.

Guess playing squad includes development contracts. So still 3 less that what even Connacht have currently.

What we have will require are emergency cover players for both prop positions - Toomunga-Allen please
At Lock Sheridan and Matty Rea will be called upon on numerous occassions to fill in given injuries and International call ups
Fly Half even if we do sign a half decent stop gap.
Take centre - only 2 full time centres fit for the start of the season and both are natural 12, one of them is in the Irish squad - Stockdale, Kok, Moore will be playing a lot of rugby at 13 between them.
At 15 - all down to Lowry, Moore and I would assume McIlroy.
I would expect by necessity we will see numerous Academy appearance in the back three.

geoff999rugby wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:Not sure what anyone sees in Prendergast.  The few games I've see him play he wasn't that impressive.  Doesn't play the gainline either so not really a running threat either.  At his age most of the really great fly halves already showed glimpses of what made them great.  

I do think the 5 year residency rule has had a big impact in terms of recruiting with a view to make them internationals.  Think that rule will impact a lot of nations moving forward.

To some extent I agree.
I was trying to not be controversial when I said Deegan was better than Coombes but to be honest if push came to shove I'd take him over Prendergast as well
Deegan is a a better player than bothn - maybe Deegan should leave Leinster to improve his Irish propsects

Think yous are talking about different Prendergasts, Geoff about Cian (Connacht backrow) Welshmushroom about Sam (Leinster outhalf)

Deegan would be a great asset but he obviously isn't really that interested in a move. I don't know what happens to the tax rebate if someone comes North, I suppose that could be an added complication. But the real need is as Geoff says, at 10 and prop. With Murphy Sir as coach I would hope that any promise from development or academy 10s will be spotted and suitably encouraged and exploited. But that doesn't mean any candidates could be assumed to even provide backup for a season so reinforcements are needed. It's a similar situation with props.

The Kitshoff departure must be easing some of the financial restrictions but there will be classic catch-22 of how to get the punters in without any big names to attract them. Building game day income will be entirely dependant on the "squad" guys playing their hearts out and the paying public buying into those sort of performances.

An Irish qualified 22yr old New Zealander IMO would be the next best thing to one of the Leinster youngsters who seem determined not to come.

I’m hoping that for once, a rumour comes true.

Morgan would be substantially better than any other current option is suspect.

Kingshu wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:Not sure what anyone sees in Prendergast.  The few games I've see him play he wasn't that impressive.  Doesn't play the gainline either so not really a running threat either.  At his age most of the really great fly halves already showed glimpses of what made them great.  

I do think the 5 year residency rule has had a big impact in terms of recruiting with a view to make them internationals.  Think that rule will impact a lot of nations moving forward.

To some extent I agree.
I was trying to not be controversial when I said Deegan was better than Coombes but to be honest if push came to shove I'd take him over Prendergast as well
Deegan is a a better player than bothn - maybe Deegan should leave Leinster to improve his Irish propsects

Think yous are talking about different Prendergasts, Geoff about Cian (Connacht backrow) Welshmushroom about Sam (Leinster outhalf)

That what you get for only ready the name rather the complete contribution from another poster


Buit early to assess the 10 as opposed to the 6/8 though.

Only just arrived on the Leinster scene.

clivemcl wrote:An Irish qualified 22yr old New Zealander IMO would be the next best thing to one of the Leinster youngsters who seem determined not to come.

I’m hoping that for once, a rumour comes true.

Morgan would be substantially better than any other current option is suspect.

KOTH on the other forum hinted its in progress to seams to have legs at least.

Kingshu wrote:

clivemcl wrote:An Irish qualified 22yr old New Zealander IMO would be the next best thing to one of the Leinster youngsters who seem determined not to come.

I’m hoping that for once, a rumour comes true.

Morgan would be substantially better than any other current option is suspect.

KOTH on the other forum hinted its in progress to seams to have legs at least.

I'm just watching the Hurricanes game while pretending to work. I use HDsteamz on my android is anyone's interested. Free to download via google search, not google play as it's not official obviously. Great to cast to TVs and usually perfect broadcast if it's a leading channel.

Anyway, I digress. Morgan looks to be an accomplished player for his lack of years on the planet and game time., certainly much better than our other options next season. He seems fairly small mind you, wiki has him at 5'10 and 13 stone, not much bigger than Lowry but the Hurricanes site has him at 5'7 and 12.5 stone which is the same as Lowry. He does look to have the attributes to play at a high enough level and has pace to burn. With the cupboard as bare as it is I reckon he'd be a very handy addition to the squad and being IQ is a bit of a bonus.

Team

(15-9) Ethan McIlroy, Mike Lowry, Will Addison, Stuart McCloskey, Jacob Stockdale, Billy Burns, John Cooney;

(1-8) Eric O’Sullivan, Rob Herring, Tom O’Toole, Kieran Treadwell, Alan O’Connor (C), Cormac Izuchukwu, David McCann, Nick Timoney.

Replacements: Tom Stewart, Andy Warwick, Scott Wilson, Harry Sheridan, Matty Rea, Nathan Doak, Stewart Moore, Jude Postlethwaite.

Glad they are trying McIlroy at 15 - we will need him there next season.
Continuing with Izzy at 6 which is interesting
EOS seems to have become Murphy's first choice LH, after being banished by McFarland

Pete330v2 wrote:

Kingshu wrote:

clivemcl wrote:An Irish qualified 22yr old New Zealander IMO would be the next best thing to one of the Leinster youngsters who seem determined not to come.

I’m hoping that for once, a rumour comes true.

Morgan would be substantially better than any other current option is suspect.

KOTH on the other forum hinted its in progress to seams to have legs at least.

I'm just watching the Hurricanes game while pretending to work. I use HDsteamz on my android is anyone's interested. Free to download via google search, not google play as it's not official obviously. Great to cast to TVs and usually perfect broadcast if it's a leading channel.

Anyway, I digress. Morgan looks to be an accomplished player for his lack of years on the planet and game time., certainly much better than our other options next season. He seems fairly small mind you, wiki has him at 5'10 and 13 stone, not much bigger than Lowry but the Hurricanes site has him at 5'7 and 12.5 stone which is the same as Lowry. He does look to have the attributes to play at a high enough level and has pace to burn. With the cupboard as bare as it is I reckon he'd be a very handy addition to the squad and being IQ is a bit of a bonus.

Yeah i noticed in his stats he is quite small, haven't seen him play but looked up player ratings for games he was in and seams to be more a running threat that kicking OH, takes the ball up to the line and releases players around him, doesn't sit back in the pocket. Can run support lines like a SH would. Place kicking is maybe not best but with Cooney and Doak, thats covered anyway. Seams a very different player to Burns but that doesn't mean better. Maybe our version of Libbok? Maybe Flannery to close out games? We'll see, hope we get him signed as need at least a decent option at OH

geoff999rugby wrote:Team

(15-9) Ethan McIlroy, Mike Lowry, Will Addison, Stuart McCloskey, Jacob Stockdale, Billy Burns, John Cooney;

(1-8) Eric O’Sullivan, Rob Herring, Tom O’Toole, Kieran Treadwell, Alan O’Connor (C), Cormac Izuchukwu, David McCann, Nick Timoney.

Replacements: Tom Stewart, Andy Warwick, Scott Wilson, Harry Sheridan, Matty Rea, Nathan Doak, Stewart Moore, Jude Postlethwaite.

Glad they are trying McIlroy at 15 - we will need him there next season.
Continuing with Izzy at 6 which is interesting
EOS seems to have become Murphy's first choice LH, after being banished by McFarland

Can't complain about that squad. I always imagined Izzy as a 6 so hopefully last week wasn't just a fluke. He's our very own Baird.
That's actually a pretty decent pack so there's a chance we could get something out of this. A point or two would leave us pretty safe for the top 7 I reckon. A try bonus point is more likely than a losing bonus point but a point will satisfy, a very unlikely win more so obviously.

Leinster team up:

15. Hugo Keenan (64)
14. Tommy O’Brien (32)
13. Jimmy O’Brien (77)
12. Charlie Ngatai (24)
11. Rob Russell (30)
10. Harry Byrne (66)
9. Cormac Foley (18)

1. Cian Healy (275)
2. Rónan Kelleher (59)
3. Michael Ala’alatoa (67)
4. James Ryan (79) CAPTAIN
5. Brian Deeny (16)
6. Max Deegan (110)
7. Will Connors (47)
8. Jack Conan (143)

Replacements
16. John McKee (26)
17. Michael Milne (38)
18. Thomas Clarkson (38)
19. Ross Molony (179)
20. Scott Penny (69)
21. Luke McGrath (207)
22. Sam Prendergast (15)
23. Ben Brownlee (8)

Those couple of points are doable against that lineup. A very unlikely win might be reduced to an unlikely win.

Let's hope Ulster show Max Deegan what he's going to miss out on!

Maine man wrote:Let's hope Ulster show Max Deegan what he's going to miss out on!

Or what he dodged

I know it's a different weekend with different form etc etc BUT.

When we travelled to Dublin on the 1st of January we faced a much stronger team than that. It was a pretty fully stacked Leinster side that day and we won. Granted Leinster hadn't settled into the new defensive system that was well exploited by Ulster but they were still a better Leinster side on paper than that side coming to fortress Ravers. They are missing the following:

Frawley
Larmour
Lowe
Osbourne
Henshaw
Ringrose
Byrne
Gibson Park
Doris
VDF
Baird
Jenkins
Furlong
Sheehan
Porter

I'm not saying we'll win but I'm just going to leave that here for the sake of optimism. It's not dead,

A quote from somewhere :

" Hope springs eternal, good fortune comes to those who wait"

I'd prefer not to have to wait too long ....

I see that Robertson-Mcoy and Thornbury released by Connacht

I'd take them both to gives us more TH depth and give us an extra Lock who is 6' 8" tall.
Both IQ.

Surprised Thornbury being released

I was surprised at Thornbury, but his injury record makes Addision look like Iron man. 4 games, so far this season, 8 last season, 5 the season before.

Robertson-McCoy similar 5, 7 and 4 last 3 seasons.

Guess with squads being trimed provinces can't carry the risk of injury prone players.

Dont get me wrong that would have to be on Shanahan level wages i.e. very little

Thornbury did have had a knee injury two years ago which seems to have reduced his effectiveness.
Robertson-McCoy has lost out because Bealham is the first choice TH and Aungier and Illo have squeed him down the pecking order
rather than injuries being the main issues.

That was the game of the season for me in terms of entertainment.

Some negatives but far more positives

The biggest positive was the commitment of the players and the smile on their faces.
They were enjoying their rugby again and working for each other.

I am now completely convinced that in McCann, Sheridan and Izzy we have the best three forwards to come
through the Academy since Henderson some 12 years ago.
They should all be future International and McCann should be on the plane to South Africa ahead of
Timoney, Prendergast, Coombes, Connors, Deegan, Hodnett, POM (who will be 35 this year)
Essentially only the big 3 at Leinster in front of him.

The bounce back of EOS and Stockdale under Murphy is great to see.
Lowry was excellent as a winger and McIlroy played well at 15 where he should be.
What a tackle by Lowry on Deegan.

The smile on Cooney's face.

We are on the road back but its going to be a long one.

The negatives:
We butchered a number of chances in the first half - too anxious to score quickly.
Compounded by kicking too often.
The reason for that is we lack the necessary grunt in the front five, to earn the right to go wide.
For me our first XV must include Herring, Henderson and Sheridan in the front five (assuming we leave Izzy at 6)
Props are a bigger issue.
Treadwell is no more than a handy sub and AOC is as honest as the day is long but comes up short.

The elephant in the roon is 10 we simply have to get a replacement for Burns.
Addison has shown what might of been.

I said above that McCann, Sheridan and Izzy were the best forwards coming through the Academy since Henderson.
What about Stewart and O'Toole you may say?
My view is they have gained recognition over and above what they have produced.

Stewart kept scoring tries from the back of the maul and was bounced into the Ireland squad.
However until he improves his throwing and his scrummaging he ain't going to be the first choice at Ulster let alone an international.
He need to get his head down and improve his glaring deficiencies to grow further.

O'Toole likewise lookes great in the loose and because Ireland only have two credible TH's (Furlong and Bealham) he got also got bounced into the Ireland squad.
Sadly his scrummaging is not good enough (Wilson has shown him up in more than one game this year)
I actually think there might be merit in him moving over to LH and us signing a decent TH.
Healy had him for breakfast last night

Memo to Max Deegan:

The last 3 games you played in you lost
Ulster have won their last 4 games

Why dont you want to leave a losing team for a winning one

Mcilroy for me needs to one of two things over the summer.
Work relentlessly on his pace and find an extra top gear.
Or
Work on his size and keep what pace he has.

He has an excellent running style and he picks brilliant lines.
He either needs the top end pace to go through the holes, or the size.to go through the tackler.

It will be bulking up he simply doesn't have the pace.
Thats why I see him more as a 15 than as a winger.
Clever player - good squad player.
Very decent backup to Moore, and Lowry at 15.
Should get plenty of game time as Moore will be needed at 13 for the first half of the season.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Murphy has never played for Leinster.
He only has a handful of U-20 games under his belt

Ford played for Leicester 3 years younger than Murphy is now.
Smith was also younger.
Russell was playing 2nd grade rugby at an earlier stage.

Their career trajectories are very different.

All true but Leinster is so overstocked with talent, particularly at 10 that Frawley has been turned into a utility back and there are still two international flyhalfs before Pendergast gets a look in. Might be a couple of years before Murphy gets a go at Leinster and you find one way or the other. If Ulster rate him then let Steenson be a mentor and sign a journeyman to help cover.

Murphy isn't good enough to be anywhere near the Ulster 10 shirt unless the powers that be want to set Ulster up to fail. An experienced, steady hand is required at the wheel until someone can prove themselves worthy of the shirt. Flannery and Doak would be more accomplished 10s and they certainly aren't good enough to take the team forward next season.

It was very pleasing and relieving to get that win on saturday. I knew there was a chance when I saw the Leinster squad and despite butchering a number of early scoring chances the lads showed bucket loads of grit to see the game out. That ensures a playoff place and our place in the champions cup all but assured. Benetton and Edinburgh play in 2 weeks and whoever wins bypasses us for the 6th spot so unless the Stormers are destined to slip up against the Lions we are guaranteed 7th place even if we lose to Munster. After everything that's happened this season that would have been number one priority. Playoffs are great etc but maintaining our place at Europe's top table was non-negotiable, it might make the difference between attracting a half decent 10. Prior to Murphy taking the reins it looked very much like Challenge Cup territory.

Will be interesting to see now if any signings appear now we have Campions Cup and a new man in charge.

There will be signings biut only passable props and an ok 10.

No superstars

I thought Ulster had to cut their budget next season by a lot 1-2 million? Surely there cant be much to spend if that is the case.

Even if its a million I'd imagine Burns, Kitschoff & Ewers probably cover that but given Ulster are only releasing Curtis, Marhshall, Addison, O'Brien, French & Greg Jones, I can't imagine those leavers were on a ton of money. At best I'm guessing on all of those that gives Ulster maybe 700-800K (and im probably being to generous on those values). They need a experienced, half descent fly half and in the current market that will probably wipe half that cash out. So I doubt there will be much left to get "passable props". Would have thought they will probably will get project development props given the spends they will have left.

Unless i have misunderstood what finances are available for Ulster next season.

Forgot to mention and reduction in teams would also need the current cap rule outside of Wales to be dropped completely. That in turn would result in even less top end players playing in Wales, probably leading the reduction from 3 to 2 to combat the investment required and that would leave Gatland basically with 2 options in any position to pick his first team from. And that is assuming they actually on sign Welsh players for their starting sides which history of the regions would tell you is unlikely.

That then leads Wales into selecting players who might not be getting game time at all. And if Wales start losing more and more games as a result, it could potentially hurt the WRU end income line which in turn then also start using future funds passed to the regions.

A proper death cycle.

I suppose this largely doesn't matter if they lose the court case as that in itself has the potential to wipe out pro rugby in Wales. That said I'm more hopeful that is less likely to happen now the recent high court comments that have come out last week.

I'm just hoping someone with some sense actually comes along and starts ruling these types of discussion out and actually start looking at proper projects to improve the game in Wales. I'm still reserving judgement for now until I see the full list of planned changes but just the semi pro changes alone don't really address any of the current issues at that level.

Welshmushroom wrote:I thought Ulster had to cut their budget next season by a lot 1-2 million?  Surely there cant be much to spend if that is the case.

Even if its a million I'd imagine Burns, Kitschoff & Ewers probably cover that but given Ulster are only releasing Curtis, Marhshall, Addison, O'Brien, French & Greg Jones, I can't imagine those leavers were on a ton of money. At best I'm guessing on all of those that gives Ulster maybe 700-800K (and im probably being to generous on those values).  They need a experienced, half descent fly half and in the current market that will probably wipe half that cash out.  So I doubt there will be much left to get "passable props".  Would have thought they will probably will get project development props given the spends they will have left.

Unless i have misunderstood what finances are available for Ulster next season.

Its about a £1million - Kitshoff, Addison, Marshall, Ewers and Burns would be more than that, together.

Kitshoff alone was about £450,000 to £500,000.

Add the others you mention.
Also McFarland was on more than Murphy will be.
Newby has been cut from the coaching staff.
I supect about £250,000 left.

Maybe throw in a Season Ticket increase say £10 each would gain another £70,000 (mabe £80,000) or so.

Not much to play with but a couple of players on £130,000 and one on £60,000 should be doable.
What is absolutely certain without extra props we will not be able to fulfil a fuill season of fixtures - the IRFU wont let that happen.
Given Marty Moore fitness and O'Toole being with Ireland we cant cover TH.
An injury of a few weeks to O'Sullivan or Warwick and we will struggle at LH.
At least one decent prop is an absolute must, the other could be a development player.
Also we have only promoted 3 player up from thne Acdemy this year which is a much lower figure than most years.

Sell the house we own would raise another £1/2 million if we got desperate.

Ross Kane released from Earling Trail finders, could be an option for TH cover.
I cant see Aidan Morgan being on big money, or offered big money, certainly less than Burns was on, similar to Flannery. The carrot is he gets regular first team rugby, to earn a big contract, and possibility of breaking into the Irish team. Think currently it would be easier to get into the team than the All Blacks, behind Crowley theres no stand outs.

Wonder if could get Kernohan or Lyttle to return, now theres a change in manager?

Just read Connacht have approached Leinster about signing Prendergast on loan. So if allowed, Connacht will have 3 outhalves, Carty, Hanrahan and Prendergast.