URC- Corners out, Round 3

First topic message reminder :

Now that we have got rid of that pesky minor competition (well done to our South African friends btw) we can properly launch ourselves into the fledgling URC season.

It's got it all this weekend, good games, some derbies/interpro's and even a Welsh/South African invasion of London to show that English lot a proper rugby competition. Welcome to round 3.

Friday 3rd November 2023

Glasgow Warriors v DHL Stormers- Scotstoun Stadium, Glasgow – KO 19.35 IRE & UK / 20.35 ITA / 21.35 SA
Live on: Viaplay, Premier Sports, SuperSport, Flo Rugby & URC.tv

Ospreys v Hollywoodbets Sharks- Twickenham Stoop, London – KO 19.35 IRE & UK / 20.35 ITA / 21.35 SA
Live on: BBC Wales, Viaplay, Premier Sports, SuperSport, Flo Rugby & URC.tv

Saturday 4th November 2023

Zebre Parma v Vodacom Bulls- Stadio Lanfranchi, Parma – KO 13.00 IRE & UK / 14.00 ITA / 15.00 SA
Live on: Sky Italia, Viaplay, Premier Sports, SuperSport, Flo Rugby & URC.tv

Leinster v Edinburgh Rugby- RDS Arena, Dublin – KO 15.05 IRE & UK / 16.05 ITA / 17.05 SA
Live on: RTÉ, Viaplay, Premier Sports, SuperSport, Flo Rugby & URC.tv

Scarlets v Cardiff Rugby- Parc Y Scarlets, Llanelli – KO 17.15 IRE & UK / 18.15 ITA / 19.15 SA
Live on: Viaplay, Premier Sports, SuperSport, Flo Rugby & URC.tv

Munster v Dragons RFC- Musgrave Park, Cork – KO 17.15 IRE & UK / 18.15 ITA / 19.15 SA
Live on: RTÉ, S4C, Viaplay, Premier Sports, SuperSport, Flo Rugby & URC.tv

Connacht v Ulster- The Sportsground, Galway – KO 19.35 IRE & UK / 20.35 ITA / 21.35 SA
Live on: TG4, Viaplay, Premier Sports, SuperSport, Flo Rugby & URC.tv

Sunday 5th November 2023

Benetton v Emirates Lions- Stadio Monigo, Treviso – KO 13.30 IRE & UK / 14.30 ITA / 15.30 SA
Live on: Sky Italia, Viaplay, Premier Sports, SuperSport, Flo Rugby & URC.tv

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:

George Carlin wrote:I haven't had a chance to watch all the games, so let me ask how have the Welsh and Irish sides started their campaigns, generally speaking?

Crap.

geoff999rugby wrote:

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:

George Carlin wrote:I haven't had a chance to watch all the games, so let me ask how have the Welsh and Irish sides started their campaigns, generally speaking?

Crap.

Obviously a reply on behalf of the Welsh only

Decent for the Irish
Connacht top
Munster second undefeated
Both Leinster and Ulster 2 Wins 1 Defeat
Given the teams put out that a very respectable return for both

Yes, that’s why I put ‘Welsh’ in bold and underlined in my quote reply! See above

George Carlin wrote:

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:

George Carlin wrote:I haven't had a chance to watch all the games, so let me ask how have the Welsh and Irish sides started their campaigns, generally speaking?

Crap.

Sorry George, very negative reply from me! To grace you with a more substantial reply:

Opening game - all 4 lost. Cardiff lost at home to Benetton, Scarlets got whooped out in SA, Ospreys played OK later on in the game v Connacht and came back to get a 4 try BP and nearly a LBP. But were blown away by Connacht early on. Dragons were in with a shout of beating Edinburgh as they led for most of the game, but then blew it late on and the inevitable loss came.

Round 2 - Scarlets whooped in SA again. The BIG DERBY - Dragons v Cardiff - was a damp squib. Dragons never fired a shot and were never in the lead at any point. Close but easy win for Cardiff in the end. Ospreys did get a win, but a narrow one against Zebre, when most people were expecting Cardiff to be able to put them away by more.

Round 3 - Ospreys beat Sharks. Actually a really enjoyable game. Ospreys played well and were comfortable overall. Excellent first half from them but struggled a bit 2nd half. Both teams without a number of players though so read into it what you will. Big Derby again - Scarlets v Cardiff - Scarlets out on top this time. Quite enjoyable but, sadly, infront front of a very small crowd. The rest of the fans were at the Principality to watch Wales vs BaaBaas perhaps . Dragons. Ah, Dragons. 20 players missing due to injury and Wales v BaaBaas call ups. Went out to Munster and were competitive for maybe the first half. Then got walloped.

Some Welsh players returning will help a bit. But other teams have them returning too, so I’m not sure it will make much difference.

The Ospreys the pick of the bunch for me, with a number of forwards due to return too (Tipuric, Jac Morgan, a couple of front rowers and locks). Not sure they’ll trouble the top of the table but hopeful they’ll get to the play offs. The others……not on the showing so far.

What I've never been clear about is whether any Welsh region gets more funding than any other? I presume that the WRU cannot do that.

If so, what differentiates the different Welsh franchises at the moment? Do some have more feeder clubs and better academy systems, for example? Or is it simply the case that young players would prefer to be in a bigger city like Cardiff?

George Carlin wrote:What I've never been clear about is whether any Welsh region gets more funding than any other? I presume that the WRU cannot do that.

If so, what differentiates the different Welsh franchises at the moment? Do some have more feeder clubs and better academy systems, for example? Or is it simply the case that young players would prefer to be in a bigger city like Cardiff?

I'm not sure of the current year's 'funding' levels with the new agreement in place (if you can call it funding, its mostly TV payments, player access for extra training for international preparation etc) but in the previous few years the Scarlets have been given the most, so its not even. You'd think based on the development of players and player access that it would be Ospreys with the most, but 'off the field reasons' such as business plans were the reason why the Scarlets were given around £1.5-£2m extra per year than Ospreys and Cardiff in recent seasons.

Yes, as Filo says it is not even. Dragons have traditionally been a couple of £million down on the others. I think though that with the new 6 year agreement they are all coming in line at the same salary cap/budget (not sure which it is) going forward. Great on paper, in the interest of fairness, but unfortunately the agreement is £5m this year dropping to £4.5m next year for all of them. So they're coming down to Dragons level (or lower) rather than Dragons coming up to meet them. Hence the trimming of squads, getting rid of the aged high earners, and the general doom and gloom of the supporters (more so than normal!). Whether it is a cap or a funding contribution from the WRU is important. If the former then it will be very hard to compete and to retain good players on a squad spend of £4.5m for the next 6 years of the deal. If it is the WRU funding for each, made up of TV and competition income and payments for Gatland's additional player release, then it suggests that it is not a maximum (cap) and that the regions can top up the salary spend with their own funds. That will require investors, sugar daddies, etc. So not easy. But Dragons, for example, have just returned to private ownership again and there are a few new business bods on board who are sports investors. So you'd like to think some additional money is coming in. David Buttress on Twitter yesterday alluded to a £2-3m cash investment into the Dragons. But whether this can be spent on salary and signings remains to be seen.

Zebre get their first win in forever, thankfully the Sharks are making Dragons look less bad this year…

I haven’t seen all of it, but Cardiff vs Bulls is a good game. Very fast and physical.

The internationals return and it’s three home losses for Welsh teams. It’s gonna be a long season. The also-rans are only playing Leinster tomorrow…

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:Yes, as Filo says it is not even.  Dragons have traditionally been a couple of £million down on the others.  I think though that with the new 6 year agreement they are all coming in line at the same salary cap/budget (not sure which it is) going forward.  Great on paper, in the interest of fairness, but unfortunately the agreement is £5m this year dropping to £4.5m next year for all of them.  So they're coming down to Dragons level (or lower) rather than Dragons coming up to meet them.  Hence the trimming of squads, getting rid of the aged high earners, and the general doom and gloom of the supporters (more so than normal!).  Whether it is a cap or a funding contribution from the WRU is important.  If the former then it will be very hard to compete and to retain good players on a squad spend of £4.5m for the next 6 years of the deal.  If it is the WRU funding for each, made up of TV and competition income and payments for Gatland's additional player release, then it suggests that it is not a maximum (cap) and that the regions can top up the salary spend with their own funds.  That will require investors, sugar daddies, etc. So not easy.  But Dragons, for example, have just returned to private ownership again and there are a few new business bods on board who are sports investors.  So you'd like to think some additional money is coming in.  David Buttress on Twitter yesterday alluded to a £2-3m cash investment into the Dragons.  But whether this can be spent on salary and signings remains to be seen.

That is absolutely staggering that the regions get different sums of money. How can that not be a commentary about how important the WRU sees each region to be?

If the point is that some regions have fewer clubs and so are less well attended, isn't the correct thing to try and fund the smaller regions to get them up to the same standard as the others?

George Carlin wrote:

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:Yes, as Filo says it is not even.  Dragons have traditionally been a couple of £million down on the others.  I think though that with the new 6 year agreement they are all coming in line at the same salary cap/budget (not sure which it is) going forward.  Great on paper, in the interest of fairness, but unfortunately the agreement is £5m this year dropping to £4.5m next year for all of them.  So they're coming down to Dragons level (or lower) rather than Dragons coming up to meet them.  Hence the trimming of squads, getting rid of the aged high earners, and the general doom and gloom of the supporters (more so than normal!).  Whether it is a cap or a funding contribution from the WRU is important.  If the former then it will be very hard to compete and to retain good players on a squad spend of £4.5m for the next 6 years of the deal.  If it is the WRU funding for each, made up of TV and competition income and payments for Gatland's additional player release, then it suggests that it is not a maximum (cap) and that the regions can top up the salary spend with their own funds.  That will require investors, sugar daddies, etc. So not easy.  But Dragons, for example, have just returned to private ownership again and there are a few new business bods on board who are sports investors.  So you'd like to think some additional money is coming in.  David Buttress on Twitter yesterday alluded to a £2-3m cash investment into the Dragons.  But whether this can be spent on salary and signings remains to be seen.

That is absolutely staggering that the regions get different sums of money. How can that not be a commentary about how important the WRU sees each region to be?

If the point is that some regions have fewer clubs and so are less well attended, isn't the correct thing to try and fund the smaller regions to get them up to the same standard as the others?

It also went on things like internationals produced for “compensation”. But international selection can be very subjective. So how can Dragons get a fair crack of funding there, when Gatland doesn’t always select them? Probably why we signed an ageing Lydiate, just to get another Team Wales player in the squad

I'd just like to take this opportunity to thank Ireland for Ben Healy. He may be no Carlos Spencer, but my goodness he can kick a rugby ball.