Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread

[Geordie]

First topic message reminder :

2 tries for Hartley at 12 .

Fdjour decent first scrum then missed some tackles etc.
Sales two wingers Reed and Roebuck were very impressive....

Bath v Cardiff now...lots of potential England options here.

[Geordie]

Doss it matter if you don't have a strong runner in the centres if you have Steward, Freeman and potentially Roebuck/ Waboso or Daly in the back 3.

The right attacking plan can have the big units crashing all day from the wing/ fb or Waboso running hard at shoulder gaps like Lawrence does. Even Earl can be used there...

Its just number on a shirt...

[formerly known as Sam]

Don't remember him being that poor so I'll bow to your memory. He was clearly seen by Jones as the 10 to take us forward.

I'll say ot quietly as I get told off these days but Italy is a dangerous game for us. We are lucky to have loads of players bang in form but I am nervous.

I'd agree, Italy can be very tricky and they normally have one really good performance in the tank per 6N.

I think Eddie knew that with Ford and Farrell in their 30s and there being no other competition for the shirt he needed to develop a third choice. Marcus Smith was the obvious one. It's clear he's got masses of talent and can pull some seemingly impossible bits of skill. For me he's a lot like Fin Russell. All the magic and commitment is there, great defender for his size, but the game management aspect and learning when to go for it and when to just play the percentages is a work on. If Marcus develops those bits up then he'll be a frighteningly good player. Only issue I see for him is that Fin Smith seems to have some of those skills more developed already albeit without the touch of the impossible Marcus has.

[Lowlandbrit]

I'll say ot quietly as I get told off these days but Italy is a dangerous game for us.

No it isn't. Italy have still never beaten England in the 6N, and it generally looks like they know it. That's not to say they can't win; it's just consistently, easily, the least dangerous game on England's schedule every year (especially in Rome, for some reason).

[No 7&1/2]

Don't remember him being that poor so I'll bow to your memory. He was clearly seen by Jones as the 10 to take us forward.

I'll say ot quietly as I get told off these days but Italy is a dangerous game for us. We are lucky to have loads of players bang in form but I am nervous.

I'd agree, Italy can be very tricky and they normally have one really good performance in the tank per 6N.

I think Eddie knew that with Ford and Farrell in their 30s and there being no other competition for the shirt he needed to develop a third choice. Marcus Smith was the obvious one. It's clear he's got masses of talent and can pull some seemingly impossible bits of skill. For me he's a lot like Fin Russell. All the magic and commitment is there, great defender for his size, but the game management aspect and learning when to go for it and when to just play the percentages is a work on. If Marcus develops those bits up then he'll be a frighteningly good player. Only issue I see for him is that Fin Smith seems to have some of those skills more developed already albeit without the touch of the impossible Marcus has.

And when he's played for England the game management has been there though. Its the magic that hasn't to the extent of Harlequins but that's primarily tactics.

[No 7&1/2]

I'll say ot quietly as I get told off these days but Italy is a dangerous game for us.

No it isn't. Italy have still never beaten England in the 6N, and it generally looks like they know it. That's not to say they can't win; it's just consistently, easily, the least dangerous game on England's schedule every year (especially in Rome, for some reason).

Least dangerous and never been beaten doesn't translate that this year it's not dangerous though. Fiji at home wasn't a dangerous game for years.

[mountain man]

You could say that about most teams, they are dangerous and capable of beating England. Within reason, no-one thought Chile for example would but quite a few predicted Japan would trouble Eng.

Let's hope team and coaches go in with a positive attitude rather than worrying about being beaten.

England need to play to win rather than play not to lose which has appeared case in past.

[Lowlandbrit]

Least dangerous and never been beaten doesn't translate that this year it's not dangerous though. Fiji at home wasn't a dangerous game for years.

At some point they may well scrap out a win and change the dynamic, but until then I just can't see a fixture in Rome without picturing some otherwise fringe back running in to score (in the bright sunshine, under those striped posts) in my head. As soon as England get a lead it just feels inevitable in a way other fixtures (for both teams) don't.

[No 7&1/2]

You could say that about most teams, they are dangerous and capable of beating England. Within reason, no-one thought Chile for example would but quite a few predicted Japan would trouble Eng.

Let's hope team and coaches go in with a positive attitude rather than worrying about being beaten.

England need to play to win rather than play not to lose which has appeared case in past.

Hear hear to the last point.

[mountain man]

Interesting article in The Times today about the lack of inside centres for England. One stat that stands out is since 2010 Farrell has started at 12 53 times, next is Manu at 17. Then Brad Barritt with 14. Really surprised me Farrell with so many and Manu so few.

[formerly known as Sam]

Don't remember him being that poor so I'll bow to your memory. He was clearly seen by Jones as the 10 to take us forward.

I'll say ot quietly as I get told off these days but Italy is a dangerous game for us. We are lucky to have loads of players bang in form but I am nervous.

I'd agree, Italy can be very tricky and they normally have one really good performance in the tank per 6N.

I think Eddie knew that with Ford and Farrell in their 30s and there being no other competition for the shirt he needed to develop a third choice. Marcus Smith was the obvious one. It's clear he's got masses of talent and can pull some seemingly impossible bits of skill. For me he's a lot like Fin Russell. All the magic and commitment is there, great defender for his size, but the game management aspect and learning when to go for it and when to just play the percentages is a work on. If Marcus develops those bits up then he'll be a frighteningly good player. Only issue I see for him is that Fin Smith seems to have some of those skills more developed already albeit without the touch of the impossible Marcus has.

And when he's played for England the game management has been there though. Its the magic that hasn't to the extent of Harlequins but that's primarily tactics.

Not really. We've not tended to dominate the opposition and keep them pinned back. We've seen him try the magic stuff but international defences are better and he often lacks the patience to wait for the right time and instead tries to make the right time. At club level you get away with trying it when it's not really on, at international level you get turned over.

[No 7&1/2]

Must mean none of our fly halfs are any good then! I do think under Borthwick he will be asked to dial back looking for the breaks unless it's about hitting the panic button at the end of the game.

[TJ]

We've seen him try the magic stuff but international defences are better and he often lacks the patience to wait for the right time and instead tries to make the right time. At club level you get away with trying it when it's not really on, at international level you get turned over.

This is a lesson Russell has had to learn and it took a while. Earlier in his career he was trying to win the game every time he got the ball now not so much - he will probe and probe and manipulate defenses then pull the trigger. Smith needs to learn the same.

I still think ford is at the moment the best 10 you have. I'd be happier with Scotland facing smith or farrell than ford

[No 7&1/2]

Farrell and Ford traditionally suit the way we want to play. I'd say currently m and f Smith are the best 2.

[TJ]

M Smiths potential is higher for sure but right now? He is still learning how to be an international 10 F Smith is very much untested

[No 7&1/2]

Yeah. As of now. Ford's form isn't great. I think he stands a great chance to start though.

[formerly known as Sam]

We've seen him try the magic stuff but international defences are better and he often lacks the patience to wait for the right time and instead tries to make the right time. At club level you get away with trying it when it's not really on, at international level you get turned over.

This is a lesson Russell has had to learn and it took a while.  Earlier in his career he was trying to win the game every time he got the ball now not so much - he will probe and probe and manipulate defenses then pull the trigger.  Smith needs to learn the same.

I still think ford is at the moment the best 10 you have.  I'd be happier with Scotland facing smith or farrell than ford

Ford fit and in form and id probably agree but he's played one game this year after injury and he wasn't moving particularly freely. Very limited running game and a lot of strapping on the leg.

Fin Smith is a similar type of player to Ford and is bang in form for a team playing great rugby and showing a new variety in the way they play. Hence why I think he's got a great chance of game time.

[Geordie]

Well I've said it many times before but Ollie Sleightholme shpuld be jn the England squad.

[No 7&1/2]

2nd best to Radwan today.

[doctor_grey]

2nd best to Radwan today.

Not really so sure about that, but not sure it matters.  The difference is Falcons need the ball in Radwan's hands as much as possible whilst Saints have more options, so not every player is going to look like a rock star every game.  I think there must be massive pressure on Radwan to not just perform but to be outstanding in every game.  I don't think that can be too easy.

Which leads me to Falcons as a team.  The Premiership needs Falcons.  Also, the Premiership cannot afford to have another team auger in.  Plus, Newcastle has to be competitive.  What to do?  I'm not sure, but a neighbor suggested some form of limited share issue which can raise funds across the country, and possibly elsewhere.  Not saying that is the answer, but something radical is where the answer lies.

[Geordie]

2nd best to Radwan today.

Not really so sure about that, but not sure it matters.  The difference is Falcons need the ball in Radwan's hands as much as possible whilst Saints have more options, so not every player is going to look like a rock star every game.  I think there must be massive pressure on Radwan to not just perform but to be outstanding in every game.  I don't think that can be too easy.

Which leads me to Falcons as a team.  The Premiership needs Falcons.  Also, the Premiership cannot afford to have another team auger in.  Plus, Newcastle has to be competitive.  What to do?  I'm not sure, but a neighbor suggested some form of limited share issue which can raise funds across the country, and possibly elsewhere.  Not saying that is the answer, but something radical is where the answer lies.

Doc...

We have 2 main issues...stupid individual errors...and playing for 40-45 mins. We really should have gone in at half time ahead in all fairness. One stat showed we were in the Saints 22, 10 times and scored one try...you cant win games with that efficiency.

So stop the idiotic handling mistakes etc first.
Somehow workout how to play for 80 mins.

Diamond hopefully should be able to fix them to a degree.

We then have finally decided to give the 10 shirt to Louis Johnson. At last...the kids a class act. Let him makes his mistakes and learn. Hes already at 20 year old a million miles better than Connon.
Then get rid of all the old expensive players not providing anything like Moroni, Orlando etc...and invest wisely...and things will take a turn.

I do think we also need a bit of raw power and bulk in that pack. Some neanderthal power and strength.

Alternatively hopefully the rumours are true and the Saudis next door will put a bit of spare cash in...

[No 7&1/2]

I think you're right doc in terms of Newcastle relying quite a lot on sparks of magic from either wing. They are all at sea on their set piece. But for me everything he did at the weekend was good, defence etc. And when he gets the ball defences panic. If he was in the Northampton side he'd be breaking try scoring records.

[No 7&1/2]

Nice intro piece on our potential new blindside from the beeb.

'Had Ethan Roots had eyes for a different girl when he was a teenager we may never have heard of the forward who has just been called up to the England squad.

The New Zealand-born flanker, who has earned his first call-up after having a breakout season at Exeter, may never have picked up a ball in anger had he not been kicked out of his jiu-jitsu club by his coach.

"I was dating his daughter and he didn't like that, so he asked me to leave and it never felt right going back for a load of personal reasons," 26-year-old Roots told BBC South West.

"My school was a rugby school, so I just fell into it naturally and didn't really look back as soon as I fell into it."

Having grown up in Auckland with an English father, Roots has not had your typical route into rugby union.

He competed internationally in jiu-jitsu before his teenage love life got in the way and balanced working on construction sites with training as he realised he was half-decent with the oval ball, first for North Harbour and then with Super Rugby side Crusaders.

"I can appreciate it a little bit more than people who have come through academies because I've been in the workforce and I know if it's raining here and we're throwing a rugby ball around and having a bit of fun with guys you call mates, it's a lot more fun that sitting around on a building site digging a hole or knocking a nail in with hammer," he said.

Ethan Roots
Ethan Roots balanced a construction job and training when he first tried to forge a career in rugby union
Roots' early days involved being in the gym by 5am before getting to a building site for 7am, finishing at 5pm and then heading straight for rugby training.

"I enjoyed those times," he added.

"It was a good crew, I had a lot of really good mates who were doing the same thing at the same time.

"I enjoyed it because you started to see results and I was starting to play better rugby, so you enjoy seeing that sort of stuff so you don't mind putting in the hard work behind the scenes.

"I'd still be playing for free at my local club if I wasn't doing it professionally, but I've just got the lucky opportunity to do it professionally."

Ethan Roots
Roots played 38 times for Ospreys before leaving for Exeter
Roots got a call-up to the Maori All Blacks in 2020, but he never managed to establish himself at Crusaders - Super Rugby's most successful side.

Having always wanted to be a professional player he got his big break at Welsh side Ospreys in 2021 after his first full season at North Harbour. Roots and his family packed their bags and headed for Swansea, where he would spend two full seasons playing in the United Rugby Championship.

"I've always wanted to play top level rugby and test myself against the best," he says.

"I was pretty happy where I got to by the end of things at Ospreys, in my two years I think I developed a lot as a person and as a player, so I was pretty happy with how things went there."

Ethan Roots
Roots has started all 18 of his Exeter appearances so far this season
His performances for Ospreys, both at home and in Europe, caught the eye of Exeter and he was one of a host of new players to move to the Chiefs in the summer.

Roots was far from the biggest name to head to Sandy Park in pre-season, but he has quickly gone from under the radar to the star of the show - starting in 18 of Exeter's 19 games in league and cups this season.

"I'm surprised about how the last six or seven months have shaped up for me," he said.

"When I first got here I knew I'd be scrapping just to get a jersey every weekend, there's lots of good players already here.

"Back row's one of those positions as well where you're never guaranteed, you have one bad week and you might be out of the team and you might not see a way back in, it's a very hotly contested position.

"It would have been pretty arrogant if I thought I was going to come here and just walk into the team and do my thing, but I've been lucky enough, I think, to earn a jersey and lucky enough to keep it as well."

Now England awaits, and the chance to make his debut in the Six Nations for a side he watched beat the All Blacks in a World Cup semi-final in 2019 on television as he dreamt of becoming a professional.

"I'd just be speechless really," he said about potentially making his debut.

"Just getting named in the team would be a hard thing to process, it's been hard to process the call that I had and the announcement.

"I'll just be trying to process it and then to produce something and do the jersey some justice."'

[lostinwales]

Roots's route into England at least feels a bit more organic than Brad Shields.

[No 7&1/2]

Beeb again:

'England want to draw inspiration from the men's cricket team to "put smiles on fans' faces", says new captain Jamie George.

England's cricketers produced one of their best ever away wins to beat India on Sunday.

The 33-year-old admires their message to be "entertainers" and wants his side to do the same after only two wins from their past five games at home.

"I'm not saying we are going to go all out on attack," George told BBC Sport.

"But what I am saying is Ben Stokes talks a lot about expressing themselves and the fact that they are entertainers.

"Something at the forefront of our mind, especially at the minute, is how we can put smiles on people's faces, how we can bring Twickenham back to that fortress we want it to be."

Since taking charge of England, head coach Steve Borthwick has suffered a record home defeat by France and a first ever defeat by Fiji, which was also at Twickenham.

England travel to Italy on Saturday for their opening game of this year's Six Nations before their first game at Twickenham - since that Fiji defeat - against Wales on 10 February.

'It should be the best time of your career'
Hooker George was named England captain for the campaign in the absence of Saracens team-mate Owen Farrell.

Farrell, who will leave Saracens to join Racing 92 in July, has captained England since 2019 but ruled himself out of the tournament to prioritise his and his family's mental wellbeing.

The Rugby Football Union (RFU) does not allow players based abroad to be selected for England, meaning George could likely be England's new long-term captain.

Despite playing under Farrell at both Saracens and England, George says he is "very comfortable" in the role.

"In terms of style, I am a people person. I care about relationships, I care about people loving their time playing for England," the 33-year-old said.

"I have been on a bit of a rollercoaster ride - some of the best times of my life have been playing for England, but I have had some difficult times while playing for England also.

"For me, and I said it to the boys, that was one of the first things I said, being in this environment and playing for England, should be the best time of your life, it should be the best time of your career.

"And am very passionate about making sure people are in a position to do that."'


Saw the headline was about to have to start my climb down of everything that I've said for a year. Had real hope. Then read what George has said and thought, he doesn't really get it. The cricket team since McCullum and Stokes took over hasn't entertained because they are winning, but because they do go out to take risks in a positive manner. Granted the results have come with the approach that better suits the players but it goes back to a basic understanding that outcome doesn't mean you have entertained.

[mountain man]

Jamie George says England be taking inspiration from Ben Stokes and cricket team to be entertaining.
Hmm I wonder.
Personally I'll take wins over Italy Wales and Scotland for a start first.

[No 7&1/2]

Scotland would be a huge scalp.

[mountain man]

Yes but one England need to take, been too long now

[Geordie]

England need to get through Italy, Wales and Scotland. They can beat Scotland...in fact im actually confident we will this 6n.

The big curiosity for me is how Ireland and France go with out their talismanic figures. I know its only one player in a team game (and they have replacements) ...but those guys are just monumental in those teams.

If England are 3 / 3 with Ireland coming to Twickers...and England showing the physicality and breakdown work they did v South Africa with a little bit more in terms of attacking play (and less silly kicking)....t could be a fun game. England will still be under dogs and can just tear in to them.

[doctor_grey]

Saw the headline was about to have to start my climb down of everything that I've said for a year. Had real hope. Then read what George has said and thought, he doesn't really get it. The cricket team since McCullum and Stokes took over hasn't entertained because they are winning, but because they do go out to take risks in a positive manner. Granted the results have come with the approach that better suits the players but it goes back to a basic understanding that outcome doesn't mean you have entertained.

I saw the same thing in The Telegraph and I had almost the same thoughts as you.  Except England have to win, or at least show they want to.  They may not really get it, but at least it shows an awareness which we have not seen from England in a long time.  Very small steps.  

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2024/01/28/jamie-george-england-fan-engagement-match-day-experience/

Proposals include extending the England squad’s walk into Twickenham Stadium to allow for greater fan engagement, the use of music during matches to create a better atmosphere, more time for autographs and photographs with fans after games, more interactions with the media and social media to connect with fans and a longer-term goal of attracting a more diverse supporter base.

People who have spent more than £1000 per seat will want better than this.

George revealed the players have also held discussions with England head coach Steve Borthwick about placing a greater emphasis on the side’s attacking play, admitting the limited style of the team’s performances at the World Cup had “an implication on why there was booing.”

Aaah, an implication.  That's what we need, more implications.  Why not just ask a few fans why England were booed:  England were simply poor.  At Home.  Not looking like they have a clue.  Almost looking like they don't want to be there.  No clue how to attack.   It is very frustrating to read this stuff because the big picture answers are so vividly clear. How you get there is another question.

But as I said, small steps.

[Geordie]

Saw the headline was about to have to start my climb down of everything that I've said for a year. Had real hope. Then read what George has said and thought, he doesn't really get it. The cricket team since McCullum and Stokes took over hasn't entertained because they are winning, but because they do go out to take risks in a positive manner. Granted the results have come with the approach that better suits the players but it goes back to a basic understanding that outcome doesn't mean you have entertained.

I saw the same thing in The Telegraph and I had almost the same thoughts as you.  Except England have to win, or at least show they want to.  They may not really get it, but at least it shows an awareness which we have not seen from England in a long time.  Very small steps.  

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2024/01/28/jamie-george-england-fan-engagement-match-day-experience/

Proposals include extending the England squad’s walk into Twickenham Stadium to allow for greater fan engagement, the use of music during matches to create a better atmosphere, more time for autographs and photographs with fans after games, more interactions with the media and social media to connect with fans and a longer-term goal of attracting a more diverse supporter base.

People who have spent more than £1000 per seat will want better than this.

George revealed the players have also held discussions with England head coach Steve Borthwick about placing a greater emphasis on the side’s attacking play, admitting the limited style of the team’s performances at the World Cup had “an implication on why there was booing.”

Aaah, an implication.  That's what we need, more implications.  Why not just ask a few fans why England were booed:  England were simply poor.  At Home.  Not looking like they have a clue.  Almost looking like they don't want to be there.  No clue how to attack.   It is very frustrating to read this stuff because the big picture answers are so vividly clear.  How you get there is another question.

But as I said, small steps.

And improved through the world cup ...

What we need to see now is more improvement and the seeds of an attack.

[mountain man]

The booing was most noticable to me in the Japan match, a game England ended up winning comfortably but the play was dreadful.
Kicking away possession in Japan 22 time after time when there were better options available. I didn't agree with booing but it was grim to watch.

First of all England need to win. Then if they can improve attack(shouldn't be hard as bar currently very low) then progress is being made.
What Eng won't do is throw caution to wind and go all out Barbarians style. Never going to happen and definitely not under Borthwick and George has said as much.
Team though are acutely aware of criticism which has been levelled at them and rightly so.

I think we'll still see a forward based, kick heavy tactic but I hope we will see a bit more ball in hand running rugby as well.

[formerly known as Sam]

Under Borthwick we've generally deployed our flyhalf and fullback in the back field to deal with the kicking game. Personally I'd hope with Fin or Marcus in the 10 shirt that should open up some counter attacking options. They'll likely have Steward alongside them to run, chase, kick or distribute as they need him to and he's a big enough lad to be able to help get them out of a bit of a hole if they gamble and it goes work. If we've used our kicking game to force the opposition back and they are clearing their lines then launching an attack from halfway would be the type of thing Borthwick would approve of as it's relatively low risk but would also make use more fun to watch and would apply more stress to the opponents defence.

Loose kicks down field or poor kick chases to be targeted might shift the emphasis to kicking for touch where Borthwick's lineout nous should come to the fore.

[RiscaGame]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2024/01/28/jamie-george-england-fan-engagement-match-day-experience/

Proposals include extending the England squad’s walk into Twickenham Stadium to allow for greater fan engagement, the use of music during matches to create a better atmosphere, more time for autographs and photographs with fans after games, more interactions with the media and social media to connect with fans and a longer-term goal of attracting a more diverse supporter base.

People who have spent more than £1000 per seat will want better than this.

Music during matches . That's as unnecessary for generating an atmosphere as overly celebrating not straight lineouts

I am not sure extending a walk into the stadium is brilliant either. If it were me, I would be headphones on and ignoring everybody by then anyway.

[doctor_grey]

And improved through the world cup ...
What we need to see now is more improvement and the seeds of an attack.

It has to be more than Marcus Smith. But now the players must have had their playbooks from the day they were selected for the squad, so give them a game or two to settle into it and we will see where we are.

[RiscaGame]

Chris Foy on X

News from Girona: Marcus Smith left England training on crutches today and was sent for a scan on a potential leg injury - three days before team named to face Italy in Rome. Story on @MailSport …

[doctor_grey]

Chris Foy on X

News from Girona: Marcus Smith left England training on crutches today and was sent for a scan on a potential leg injury - three days before team named to face Italy in Rome. Story on @MailSport …

Wow! That would be seriously ungood. There is a lot riding on him.

[No 7&1/2]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2024/01/28/jamie-george-england-fan-engagement-match-day-experience/

Proposals include extending the England squad’s walk into Twickenham Stadium to allow for greater fan engagement, the use of music during matches to create a better atmosphere, more time for autographs and photographs with fans after games, more interactions with the media and social media to connect with fans and a longer-term goal of attracting a more diverse supporter base.

People who have spent more than £1000 per seat will want better than this.

Music during matches . That's as unnecessary for generating an atmosphere as overly celebrating not straight lineouts

I am not sure extending a walk into the stadium is brilliant either. If it were me, I would be headphones on and ignoring everybody by then anyway.

It's balanced by sending them out jnto a bear pit to give autographs if we lose too tbf!

[No 7&1/2]

Chris Foy on X

News from Girona: Marcus Smith left England training on crutches today and was sent for a scan on a potential leg injury - three days before team named to face Italy in Rome. Story on @MailSport …

Wow!  That would be seriously ungood.  There is a lot riding on him.  

Bad for Smith and Harlequins but can't think it impacts England too much.

[Geordie]

Chris Foy on X

News from Girona: Marcus Smith left England training on crutches today and was sent for a scan on a potential leg injury - three days before team named to face Italy in Rome. Story on @MailSport …

I really hope SB picks FIn Smith then...and not Ford whos just not offering anything atm..

[mountain man]

Chris Foy on X

News from Girona: Marcus Smith left England training on crutches today and was sent for a scan on a potential leg injury - three days before team named to face Italy in Rome. Story on @MailSport …

That's grim news. For Smith and England.

If he's ruled out it'll be Ford starting and F Smith bench then.

[Geordie]

Chris Foy on X

News from Girona: Marcus Smith left England training on crutches today and was sent for a scan on a potential leg injury - three days before team named to face Italy in Rome. Story on @MailSport …

That's grim news. For Smith and England.

If he's ruled out it'll be Ford starting and F Smith bench then.

Not necessarily...

SB will have taken note of Fin Smith guiding the win in Munster down to 14 men...

[mountain man]

True, we could find Borthwick starts Furbank at 10...god no.

[Geordie]

True, we could find Borthwick starts Furbank at 10...god no.

Furbank playing extremely well...more physical...wouldnt have an issue as hes in better form than Ford...but IF Furbank was to start id rather it was at 15 wih Fin at 10...

[mountain man]

Same here, if Furbank does play it should be 15 not 10.

Borthwick could start Fin Smith at 10 but I wonder if he will.

Anyway, just wait and see whether Marcus is ruled out or not.

[Poorfour]

A slightly more balanced report in the Guardian says Marcus pulled up while jogging, ironically next to a physio. Wigglesworth said that he hopes on that basis that it's not a big deal, but they're sending him for a scan.

As fans we tend to overreact a bit to seeing players on crutches or in moonboots, but in practice they're used a lot in a precautionary way to prevent further damage until the injury can be assessed.

It's not great news - but we won't know whether it's a big deal until England report back on the outcome of the scan.

[George Carlin]

Seems like a sensible time to start with Smith The Prodigy with Smith the Floppy Fringe on the bench.

[formerly known as Sam]

Chris Foy on X

News from Girona: Marcus Smith left England training on crutches today and was sent for a scan on a potential leg injury - three days before team named to face Italy in Rome. Story on @MailSport …

That's grim news. For Smith and England.

If he's ruled out it'll be Ford starting and F Smith bench then.

Not necessarily...

SB will have taken note of Fin Smith guiding the win in Munster down to 14 men...

Nevermind noticing it he openly praised the performance in an interview and name dropped not just Fin but Freeman, Mitchell etc as well.

[formerly known as Sam]

True, we could find Borthwick starts Furbank at 10...god no.

Furbank playing extremely well...more physical...wouldnt have an issue as hes in better form than Ford...but IF Furbank was to start id rather it was at 15 wih Fin at 10...

Furbank is bang in form but against any team other than Italy I wouldn't be starting him over Ford. Ford is by a long distance the better flyhalf.

Fin Smith should make the talk moot anyway.

Steward Vs Furbank might be an interesting conundrum for Borthwick as Furbank looked weak at the back in previous 6N appearances but would offer a more creative spark.

[Geordie]

True, we could find Borthwick starts Furbank at 10...god no.

Furbank playing extremely well...more physical...wouldnt have an issue as hes in better form than Ford...but IF Furbank was to start id rather it was at 15 wih Fin at 10...

Furbank is bang in form but against any team other than Italy I wouldn't be starting him over Ford. Ford is by a long distance the better flyhalf.

Fin Smith should make the talk moot anyway.

Steward Vs Furbank might be an interesting conundrum for Borthwick as Furbank looked weak at the back in previous 6N appearances but would offer a more creative spark.

I would 100% agree..however hes not in any kind of form. Unless a stint with the squad gets him back in form

Furbank has also clearly been hitting the weights...and looks more robust.

[Cumbrian]

I agree with what others have written, you'd assume that Fin Smith will start now. He is about the only English flyhalf available that has is playing regularly, uninjured and in form.

Smith seems preferred to Furbank for Northampton, so I can't see that being reversed at international level, maybe if Furbank was a seasoned international campaigner but that isn't the reality.

I think Furbank is probably much closer to the 15 shirt, but I think Steward will get picked because of the relatively inexperience backline that is going to be fielded.

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