Louis Rees Zammit - NFL transition

Saw this video today, though this series may be of interest to some. As someone who isn't that interested in NFL, it's a good way of following a rugby player's transition. I think we should be worried about this IPP academy, though I do wonder whether we'll see more transitions from league as the games seem to be closer related, and league seems to be struggling at the moment, even moreso than union...


https://youtu.be/IhdULLUcrz4?si=UUbGv-T2X2eMJIco

Rees-Zammit in a 3 way tug of war with NFL teams, apparently, to get him into their summer training squads. $900k salary on offer. For a training squad!

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/louis-rees-zammit-already-offers-from-3-nfl-franchises/?_gl=1*1cuikiv*_ga*YW1wLXNWTGdzeWlmV3BhMnFueDNTcGhtblE.*_ga_FYFPR0M2JV*MTcxMTA0OTE2OS4xLjEuMTcxMTA0OTE5Mi4wLjAuMA..

I’d run as fast as him if they offered me that!

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:Rees-Zammit in a 3 way tug of war with NFL teams, apparently, to get him into their summer training squads. $900k salary on offer. For a training squad!

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/louis-rees-zammit-already-offers-from-3-nfl-franchises/?_gl=1*1cuikiv*_ga*YW1wLXNWTGdzeWlmV3BhMnFueDNTcGhtblE.*_ga_FYFPR0M2JV*MTcxMTA0OTE2OS4xLjEuMTcxMTA0OTE5Mi4wLjAuMA..

I’d run as fast as him if they offered me that!

Wicked fast, yes. But not quite so uncommon in the NFL. That said, I think he has at least a puncher's chance. Hopefully better.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/american-football/2024/03/20/louis-rees-zammit-nfl-combine-40-yard-dash/

I'm not a Wales fan so don't care if he plays NFL really but may take away from it all was how he let Gatland know of his decision an hour before Wales 6N squad was announced. He'd have obviously been one of first names on sheet. I thought that was pretty poor to be honest.

mountain man wrote:I'm not a Wales fan so don't care if he plays NFL really but may take away from it all was how he let Gatland know of his decision an hour before Wales 6N squad was announced. He'd have obviously been one of first names on sheet. I thought that was pretty poor to be honest.

How else could he have done it? The opportunity had only just come up.

You mean he only heard an hour before and then made his decision? I don't think so.

Imagine the grief in the media if an England player had done that!

Yep, he went with Gatland’s blessing. And Gatland only seemed to have nice things to say about the announcement. Which is very un-Gatland. Let’s be honest, Gatland loves to throw players under a bus, so if Rees-Zammit has taken the p*ss or done something wrong in the way he approaches the announcement I’m sure Gatland would have come out firing in the press. Like he usually does.

It’s not like it was an hour before kickoff either. An hour before the squad was announced, which was over a month before the start of the 6N from memory.

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:Yep, he went with Gatland’s blessing. And Gatland only seemed to have nice things to say about the announcement. Which is very un-Gatland. Let’s be honest, Gatland loves to throw players under a bus, so if Rees-Zammit has taken the p*ss or done something wrong in the way he approaches the announcement I’m sure Gatland would have come out firing in the press. Like he usually does.

But Gatland didn't know until an hour before squad announced, it came as a massive shock to him. As for going with his blessing, what else could he say? If you don't think telling the head coach an hour before squad is announced - and let's be honest LRZ would definitely be in said squad - is a bit amiss I don't know what is.

mountain man wrote:

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:Yep, he went with Gatland’s blessing. And Gatland only seemed to have nice things to say about the announcement. Which is very un-Gatland. Let’s be honest, Gatland loves to throw players under a bus, so if Rees-Zammit has taken the p*ss or done something wrong in the way he approaches the announcement I’m sure Gatland would have come out firing in the press. Like he usually does.

But Gatland didn't know until an hour before squad announced, it came as a massive shock to him. As for going with his blessing, what else could he say? If you don't think telling the head coach an hour before squad is announced - and let's be honest LRZ would definitely be in said squad - is a bit amiss I don't know what is.

LRZ told Gatland as soon as he made his decision to accept the invitation. What else do you think he should have done?

mountain man wrote:

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:Yep, he went with Gatland’s blessing. And Gatland only seemed to have nice things to say about the announcement. Which is very un-Gatland. Let’s be honest, Gatland loves to throw players under a bus, so if Rees-Zammit has taken the p*ss or done something wrong in the way he approaches the announcement I’m sure Gatland would have come out firing in the press. Like he usually does.

But Gatland didn't know until an hour before squad announced, it came as a massive shock to him. As for going with his blessing, what else could he say? If you don't think telling the head coach an hour before squad is announced - and let's be honest LRZ would definitely be in said squad - is a bit amiss I don't know what is.

Must be a slow news day if this is getting you so riled up! 6 nations come down?!

Riled up? Not at all. As I said I support England so doesn't affect me although he would undoubtedly make a positve difference to Welsh team if he was in it.
As this thread is specifically about LRZ going to NFL I gave my thoughts on it. Is that OK?

mountain man wrote:

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:Yep, he went with Gatland’s blessing. And Gatland only seemed to have nice things to say about the announcement. Which is very un-Gatland. Let’s be honest, Gatland loves to throw players under a bus, so if Rees-Zammit has taken the p*ss or done something wrong in the way he approaches the announcement I’m sure Gatland would have come out firing in the press. Like he usually does.

But Gatland didn't know until an hour before squad announced, it came as a massive shock to him. As for going with his blessing, what else could he say? If you don't think telling the head coach an hour before squad is announced - and let's be honest LRZ would definitely be in said squad - is a bit amiss I don't know what is.

Have you thought that LRZ was weighing up whether to take the NFL decision or not, right up until that point?

Obviously he must have been so in that case he should have informed Gatland that he was considering a move to NFL as a courtesy.
He clearly didn't do that so caught Gatland on the hop. That is my point. LZR would have know he would definitely be inc in Wales squad.

Anywhere, it seems some are getting riled and it's not me honest!

The International Player Pathway has been in place for quite some time (well over a decade), although has been expanded this year. IIRC, about 10 NFL teams used to have an additional practice squad* position for an IPP player, which has now been expanded to all 32 teams.

Several players from both rugby codes (Christian Wade, Alex Gray, Jarryd Hayne etc) have tried making the switch but few have done so with any great success other than as kickers and punters. LRZ probably has as good a chance as any, both because his physical attributes transfer well, and he's making the transition at a young age.

Oh, and as a rule of thumb, someone running sub 4.5 s for a 40 yard sprint is considered pretty fast by NFL standards, sub 4.4 is elite speed. LRZ was apparently disappointed to clock 4.44s

* NFL teams have 53 player rosters for each game, and conventionally 9 players on the practice squad, who are also able to step in to the main roster as injury cover. The IPP players have not previously been able to step into the playing squad without a change in their contractual situation (i.e. to play matches they have to kind of renounce their IPP status and sign a full or conventional practice squad contract, so losing their team the additional place)

I believe the £900,000 is only if he completes the whole season, he could get cut after the summer and "only" pocket £150-200,000.

Also in the subject of 40 yard sprints, Brock lessner (massive dude WWE, MMA ) ran a 4.7 when he was trying to get into the NFL. That's frightening quick for someone his size

carpet baboon wrote:I believe the £900,000 is only if he completes the whole season, he could get cut after the summer and "only" pocket £150-200,000.

Also in the subject of 40 yard sprints, Brock lessner (massive dude WWE, MMA ) ran a 4.7 when he was trying to get into the NFL. That's frightening quick for someone his size

He was about 20 stone when he did it as well.

There's a big difference for those raised on NFL players to those that are raised on rugby and football. The Americans train for years for explosive impact, they only need at max 20 second efforts. Rugby guys as we know need to one their feet making efforts for minutes at a time. When it comes to these types of combine tests the rugby guys are unlikely to shine.

US media saying LRZ has agreed terms with the Kansas City Chiefs.

That gives him a chance to try and get on th emain roster. Failing that, he could get a slot in the practice squad, as there is a special allowance for Interntional Pthwy players.

Rugby star Louis Rees-Zammit will be signing with the #Chiefs on Friday, per sources.

After working out and impressing Kansas City’s staff earlier this week, they have agreed on terms. I’m told Rees-Zammit will be playing RB/WR.

https://twitter.com/Schultz_Report/status/1773133727331188956

Harry Malllinder has apparently talked with teams about a kicking role.

LRZ would be a great place to land although in a Super Bowl winning side it might be difficult to get many snaps.

formerly known as Sam wrote:LRZ would be a great place to land although in a Super Bowl winning side it might be difficult to get many snaps.

I reckon he's just hoping to hang out with Taylor Swift.

I think he will play a few pre season games get some time at WR/RB and do some.kick returns then spend the season on the practice squad.
But you never know.

Chiefs did get some flak for their running game last season iirc so trying him out as a cheap option to offer something else there isn't a bad idea. The change in the kick return rules should suit him as well.

We are learning that one International Pathway Program player is getting some love from NFL teams. Harry Mallinder the Rugby player from England was named as an IPP player this year, and it sounds like he will be on an NFL team soon...

...The 27-year-old punter has a massive leg and stands at 6’5. After crushing the Specialist Combine, Mallinder was asked to attend the USF pro day. He is technically a Free Agent and NFL teams can sign him now. I am told that multiple teams called USF to get him into their pro day for another view.

 

https://nfldraftdiamonds.com/2024/03/ipp-player/

Guys in the video below affirm Sam's point above, that the kick return law change could help LRZ make the squad. They also say some Irish GAA kickers may get signed by teams.



More speculation on the possible future for rugby players in the NFL:

Mallinder would make sense as a good punter. Massive boot, used to kicking under pressure and he looks to have beefed up so if required could put a shot in should he need to.

Rugby Fan wrote:

We are learning that one International Pathway Program player is getting some love from NFL teams. Harry Mallinder the Rugby player from England was named as an IPP player this year, and it sounds like he will be on an NFL team soon...

...The 27-year-old punter has a massive leg and stands at 6’5. After crushing the Specialist Combine, Mallinder was asked to attend the USF pro day. He is technically a Free Agent and NFL teams can sign him now. I am told that multiple teams called USF to get him into their pro day for another view.

 

https://nfldraftdiamonds.com/2024/03/ipp-player/

Guys in the video below affirm Sam's point above, that the kick return law change could help LRZ make the squad. They also say some Irish GAA kickers may get signed by teams.



More speculation on the possible future for rugby players in the NFL:

The LRZ video is taken from a daily talk show on ESPN US.  These guys, like a lot of Americans don't really understand Rugby, as you can easily tell from listening.  But they appear suitably interested in how LRZ gets on.  I think if LRZ makes it, it will help raise the awareness of Rugby over here because some people will want to look into his background and how he became one of the first non NFL (non-American Football) to make it from playing a completely different sport (well, almost different because American Football is the grandchild of Rugby).  

Still hoping Prince Harry (the Rugby one) signs with a NY area team.

Reports suggest LRZ has been given a three-year contract with some guarantees. While there are no numbers, Christian Wade earned at least $600,000, and as much as $1.4mln a year during his three years with the Bills. There's a fair chance LRZ has done better.

GAA goalkeeper Charlie Smyth has been signed on a 3 year deal with the Saints as a kicker.

Nothing so far for Mallinder.

Travis Cayton has been picked by the Bills in the draft.

He's referred to as a Union player, though his last link was playing for Basingstoke, in the Counties 2 Hampshire division.

He's 23, 6ft 7in, and ran a 40-yard dash in 4.79 seconds during the NFL Combine.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/american-football/articles/cne9jmlremeo

Harry Mallinder is reported to be attending the Philadelphia Eagles Mini Camp. No idea what that means.

Rugby Fan wrote:...

Harry Mallinder is reported to be attending the Philadelphia Eagles Mini Camp. No idea what that means.

Most NFL teams don't draft punters or kickers, but tend to sign them as free agents as and when the need arises. This type of mini camp is a try-out for unsigned free agents, who may be out of contract veterans, guys undrafted out of college or occasional random try outs such as converting rugby or GAA players looking for a kicking role (it isn't worth the squads using an IPP spot on a kicker or punter, as they don't generally have a 'spare' under contract for these special teams positions).

As for LRZ,I think the Chiefs see a potential development project, who is unlikely to see any game time (other than pre-season) this year but may make the full roster before the end of the three year contract - 6' 2" and 210 lb, 4.4s 40 yard, elusive runner with decent hands has all the physical attributes to be a good player, but needs to learn the nuances of the game.

I saw an interesting interview with Alex Grey the other day, where he was saying that during his tiume with the Atlanta Falcons, it wasn't the athleticism or hands that caused him the problems (indeed, he was as good as any of the other Tight Ends in the squad) , but the basics, like reacting to the snap count and getting pre-play motion correct and not giving away silly penalties that held him back - stuff that the Americans have grown up with and so don't even think about.

[quote="dummy_half"]

Rugby Fan wrote:...
I saw an interesting interview with Alex Grey the other day, where he was saying that during his tiume with the Atlanta Falcons, it wasn't the athleticism or hands that caused him the problems (indeed, he was as good as any of the other Tight Ends in the squad) , but the basics, like reacting to the snap count and getting pre-play motion correct and not giving away silly penalties that held him back - stuff that the Americans have grown up with and so don't even think about.

A bit like non-union players adapting to the tackle height and breakdown laws coming the other way.

A lot of that is about building the right set of automatic responses to the sensory triggers you get before and during the play. It's one thing to know the correct response consciously, but you need to train your preconscious brain to a) spot which signals are important, b) pick the right response and c) distinguish between simialr-looking situations that need different responses. (c) in particular takes time, often because people who've grown up with the game can't tell you what they are responding to because they're making their judgements based on minute differences in behaviour that you just have to learn.

Poorfour wrote:

A lot of that is about building the right set of automatic responses to the sensory triggers you get before and during the play. It's one thing to know the correct response consciously, but you need to train your preconscious brain to a) spot which signals are important, b) pick the right response and c) distinguish between similar-looking situations that need different responses. (c) in particular takes time, often because people who've grown up with the game can't tell you what they are responding to because they're making their judgements based on minute differences in behaviour that you just have to learn.

[/quote]

I've been coaching a girls football team this year - a few with significant experience but mostly novices. They can have perfectly decent technique and athleticism, but it's that ability to 'read' the game that takes time to develop and where their inexperience shows. For example, knowing when as a midfielder they could look to push forward and supplement a promising attack, or when they need to hold back and cover a potential counter - absolutely on your a, b, c listing.

Rugby Fan wrote:Travis Cayton has been picked by the Bills in the draft.

He's referred to as a Union player, though his last link was playing for Basingstoke, in the Counties 2 Hampshire division.

He's 23, 6ft 7in, and ran a 40-yard dash in 4.79 seconds during the NFL Combine.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/american-football/articles/cne9jmlremeo

Harry Mallinder is reported to be attending the Philadelphia Eagles Mini Camp. No idea what that means.

Eagles? It means he is going to hell.

Apparently the Canadian Tongan lad that the Lions drafted has a rugby background too

Pebbles wrote:Apparently the Canadian Tongan lad that the Lions drafted has a rugby background too

That is a seriously large human: 350 lbs,. 25 stone. he may not catch up to everyone, but if one comes within arm's reach, prepare to get squished like a bug on a windshield.

doctor_grey wrote:

Pebbles wrote:Apparently the Canadian Tongan lad that the Lions drafted has a rugby background too

That is a seriously large human:  350 lbs,. 25 stone.  he may not catch up to everyone, but if one comes within arm's reach, prepare to get squished like a bug on a windshield.

A rough mental calc says that is around 159kg in sensible units

Apparently he’ll play guard in the NFL, so he’ll be in the fatties up front against more fatties, perfect for him

Pebbles wrote:Apparently he’ll play guard in the NFL, so he’ll be in the fatties up front against more fatties, perfect for him

Is that what he or his team said? 350 lbs. is large for a guard, but works better as a tackle. Depends how light on his feet he is (always wanted to type that when describing someone that heavy).

lostinwales wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

Pebbles wrote:Apparently the Canadian Tongan lad that the Lions drafted has a rugby background too

That is a seriously large human:  350 lbs,. 25 stone.  he may not catch up to everyone, but if one comes within arm's reach, prepare to get squished like a bug on a windshield.

A rough mental calc says that is around 159kg in sensible units

Some of us understand the insensible units more that the sensible ones, if I tell my wife I am 18 stone, she understands me, if I say I am 115kg, she looks all blank. She has enough trouble with 100g = 4oz.

It's a bit like LSD (not the hallucinogen or the college), working everything out in pence, threepences, shillings, florins, half crowns, and even Guineas (21 shillings for the uninitiated) kept the brain supple, 10s are boring.

I admit to have been brought up thinking in pounds and stones. I also spent a decade writing some software to model some very complex physics for an American client. Dealing with the units has left me with a strong dislike for most imperial units ( not pints obviously)

lostinwales wrote:I admit to have been brought up thinking in pounds and stones. I also spent a decade writing some software to model some very complex physics for an American client. Dealing with the units has left me with a strong dislike for most imperial units ( not pints obviously)

Imperial for me any day.  It makes one think which is good especially as we get older. The Imperial system is also more colorful and descriptive.  'Hard yards' or 'inches away' just rolls off the tongue.  

The metric system is only for people with 10 fingers.  Might even be considered discriminatory against those without the 10 digits or toes.  I think I will protest in Parliament Square.  

At work, everything is in metric so I suppose I, ahem, go both ways.....  

By the way, one of five of the 15 commandments which was lost:  Thou shalt remember the Pint and keep it holy
https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=4dbf7403a35f833e&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS855US855&q=history+of+the+world+15+commandments&tbm=vid&source=lnms&prmd=vinbmtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiax-WX9PKFAxUQX0EAHbgYDC4Q0pQJegQIDBAB&biw=1229&bih=556&dpr=1.56#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:013fcf10,vid:4wunGF3oMA0,st:0

https://twitter.com/McKenzieMNelson/status/1787548599506620922

Short 40 second video clip in that tweet of LRZ answering a question about his interest in the NFL.

A number of reports out speculating that LRZ will miss the 53 man squad cut. He might be put on the practice squad.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/american-football/2024/08/26/louis-rees-zammit-kansas-city-chiefs-squad-roster-nfl-reid/

Louis Rees-Zammit appears unlikely to make the Kansas City Chiefs’ 53-man roster ahead of the new NFL season.

The 23-year-old featured in the Chiefs’ final pre-season game against the Chicago Bears last Thursday, producing his best performance so far in an NFL uniform with four carries for 21 yards and a kickoff return for 36 yards. Confirmation of Rees-Zammit’s future role with the team this year expected on Tuesday.

He could be placed on the team’s practice squad – a reserve group of 17 players who can be called up to the active roster at any time and also be signed by other teams to their active rosters – or be granted an international exemption roster spot, meaning he could remain with the Chiefs’ main roster but not count as part of the main 53.
‘He’s a heck of an athlete’

Andy Reid, the Chiefs’ head coach, discussed Rees-Zammit’s efforts after the game against the Bears, noting that the plan had been to give him more touches and praising his athleticism.

“We tried to get him the ball a little bit tonight, and he had some real positive yards,” Reid said.

“That’ll be good for him to see and study himself on that, in live action like that. He’s a heck of an athlete. It’s just a matter of getting more familiar with it as he goes here. We’ll see how everything works out for him.”

That was always the most likely outcome - he’s only been training in the sport for a few months. As the pundits like to say, he hasn’t got enough reps under his belt yet.

The signs are though that a) he’s learning quickly and b) he offers a level of versatility that most gridiron players can’t offer.

My guess is that he’ll join the training squad, but could well be in contention for the main squad next season. He seems to have shown enough in the warm ups that the Chiefs will continue to invest in his transition.

Poorfour wrote:That was always the most likely outcome - he’s only been training in the sport for a few months. As the pundits like to say, he hasn’t got enough reps under his belt yet.

The signs are though that a) he’s learning quickly and b) he offers a level of versatility that most gridiron players can’t offer.

My guess is that he’ll join the training squad, but could well be in contention for the main squad next season. He seems to have shown enough in the warm ups that the Chiefs will continue to invest in his transition.

No doubts you are right. The practice squad has always really been the goal.

Now he can relax, settle-in, and really learn how to play the game. The practice squad gives him the opportunity to be called up into the main squad (with a significant salary bump) almost on a game basis as needed. Given the current injury rate amongst running backs, and if he truly shows the potential, he would have a good chance to get real game time. Fingers crossed for him.

He's versatility has to be a bonus for them (RB, WR, special teams and even kicker/punter n a pinch) and as doc says the practice squad will give him another 12 months to learn the game and hopefully get a few calls ups to the starting squad.

Will be interesting to see what happens over the season

carpet baboon wrote:He's versatility has to be a bonus for them (RB, WR, special teams and even kicker/punter n a pinch) and as doc says the practice squad will give him another 12 months to learn the game and hopefully get a few calls ups to the starting squad.

Will be interesting to see what happens over the season

Good points - especially in that many position players earn their way onto NFL rosters through playing special teams.  And we know LRZ can tackle and is really quick.  So not just a kick or punt returner, but someone with a more rounded background.  As coaches say in almost every sport, a player needs to earn a place on the roster, then they are just an injury away......

The most extreme example of that I can recall is the baseball story of a player in the 1920s named Wally Pipp.   He was a good, possibly very good, first baseman for the NY Yankees.  He called out of a game with a headache and the manager called on a young rookie 21 year old first baseman named Lou Gehrig.  Unfortunately for Pipp, Gehrig turned out to be one of the greatest players in baseball history and went on to play 2130 consecutive games, a record which has been surpassed only once in the 100 years since.  The point is that one never knows what can happen.  And Pipp's headache is also known as one of the most famous headaches in American sport.

Way off topic, I know, but thinking of people like Gehrig, and recently Dodie Weir, Stevie Thompson, and the like, I think it is good to know Lou Gehrig was amongst the first prominent pro athlete whose career and life were cut short by ALS which took him just two years after retiring from the Yankees.  Gehrig's nickname was the Iron Horse.  He was also the epitome of class throughout his fight with ALS and his retirement speech is one of the most famous in American sport history.  In America, ALS is still known as 'Lou Gehrig's Disease'.

Lou Gehrig Farewell

The Chiefs signed LRZ to a three year deal for a reason, sure they can still cut him but that's not the point. It's three years because they knew he would be a project. He's quick, pretty big and has a well rounded set of skills. Some of the NFL reads are missing though. Those will take time, he's not even been at it a year yet so still thinking rather than following built in intuition.

Practice team will be a good thing for him to develop in. As Doc says a chance could just be an injury away and given he's versatile that opens up a lot of possible injury cover options.

Rumours that LRZ might be off to the Jacksonville Jaguars. He’s apparently removed all reference to Kansas City Chiefs from his social media accounts. (Just looked on his Twitter and there’s still stuff about Chiefs so not sure how accurate that is).

Have to say I'm far more interested to see how Christian Wade goes this season than Zammit seeing as Wade is now a rugby player whereras LRZ isn't. NFL doesn't interest me in slightest, never got into it.

mountain man wrote:Have to say I'm far more interested to see how Christian Wade goes this season than Zammit seeing as Wade is now a rugby player whereras LRZ isn't. NFL doesn't interest me in slightest, never got into it.

So?

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:Rumours that LRZ might be off to the Jacksonville Jaguars. He’s apparently removed all reference to Kansas City Chiefs from his social media accounts. (Just looked on his Twitter and there’s still stuff about Chiefs so not sure how accurate that is).

So?