Wea Keira Veteran schools transition No.1

Wea Keira Veteran schools transition No.1, take a bow Tommy Haas .

Mind boggling performance and superb display of skill to save tennis from retrievers.

Made a huge fortune out of Tommy today, can't believe myself why I bet on him, I for once thought he gonna win the 1st set but clearly winning the match was out of my guess.

My first match in betting history I got all 100% right.

Haas to win the 1st set at 8 odds

Haas to break Nole in 1st game of 2nd set at 8 odds [ this is ridiculous guess]

Haas to win the 2nd Set when he was broken back by Nole at 4 odds.

However I didn't bet a huge sum of money, but still got all 100% right and made some fortune.

Tommy Haas did nothing special, nothing any player in the top 100 could have beaten Djokovic today, but nice wumming article. The worst Djokovic performance since 2010. He said it himself in the interview worst match I played in years. Couldn't keep the ball on the court. I am glad you made some cash on it Inivisible. A really strange match, Djokovic couldn't keep the ball on the court. This wasn't wawrinka at the AO jumping all over Djokovici with brilliant play. Credit to Haas, but he didn't have to do anything particularly special to win.

Should Zeballos d Nadal == Haas d Djokovic?

Perhaps worth a debate, IMVHO.

Whichever way you look at it, it's a gargantuan win for a 35 year old (next week) veteran. Djokovic probably wasnt 100% but then maybe Haas wasn't either. A win is a win and a surprising one at that on slower HC. There's no denying Haas can play a little - he caused Fed no end of trouble at RG09 then beat him at Halle - and hints at what could have been but for that tragic accident in 2002. But Socal, you know you're going to get stick after calling Haas and his era the rollover generation...

I don't really get the argument that Tommy Haas producing exceptional results now somehow debunks the theory that the competition in Fed's early years of dominance could have been stronger. No one has said there weren't talented players around. The point is that they failed, for various reasons, to justify that talent. In Haas' case, as Lydian says, he was extremely unfortunate with injuries. He also struggled a lot with his emotions in his earlier years. If anything, Haas' performances now as a veteran are tinged with sadness in relation to the player he could have been in his peak.

Born, the OP is just a light-hearted reference to 'wee keira' and the endless 'Transitional No 1' posts aimed at Fed for years on the original 606.
I don't think the OP intended any sort of serious point, or a serious debate to ensue.

I'll turn a blind eye to the OP and discuss the match (although, I would appeal that if people want to WUM, please make the effort to make it humourous).

There are two levels of observation here.

Specific to the match itself, we again saw Novak's Achilles heel exposed - that of struggling to play tricky conditions. In New York last year we saw his game collapse in the face of strong wind. Last night it was cold, the ball was bouncing low and Novak again struggled.

At a broader level, I think he's just a bit tired. As far as I'm aware, he's been on the road since a few days before Dubai and I think that takes its toll after a while. Last night was the first truly horrible performance he's turned in but he's been lacking a bit of 'zip' since IW really.

No huge cause for concern at this stage. A bit of rest and the injection of enthusiasm that the road to RG will bring, and I'd hope to see him back to his best.

One random win is evidence? In that case this era is steeped in depth of talent considering one ranked so lowly can beat one ranked so highly in a slam a la Lukas Rosol V Rafael Nadal.

Please lets not get into weak eras, Rosol, Bastl, Canas, etc. Its utterly tedious. We all know Tommy is hugely talented...he beat Federer on grass to win Halle not too long ago, and almost beat him at RG09 too. I picked Haas to win last night on the picking thread...it wasn't a joke pick, I seriously thought he could it and Novak hasn't been imperious of late. How is that elbow coping as well, I didn't watch the match but is it still strapped? Re: the cold, well its the same for Haas who is really a faster court player. Novak just got beat by the better guy on the night but it doesn't mean Novak's career is over - it does show he's human though and will inject a little more hope into the lower ranked guys in the locker room come their next match with Novak.

lydian wrote: Re: the cold, well its the same for Haas who is really a faster court player. Novak just got beat by the better guy on the night

I wouldn't (and indeed didn't) argue otherwise.

I only mentioned it because I think Novak has a weakness in his ability to adapt to inclement conditions.

Great performance by Haas

It was a win that has absolutely nothing in common with those Wimbledon muggings by Bastl or Rosol because Haas is a player of proven pedigree, a former world number two with several titles + finals to his name.

That said, the near ten year age gap does make it rather special. I'm struggling to think of a loss by a reigning World Number One at the hands of a player as old as Tommy Haas. If it HAS ever happened, it must surely be quite some time ago ......?

30 years ago according to the reports i was reading.

If it was THAT far back then I'm thinking it might have involved Jimmy Connors....??

JuliusHMarx wrote:Born, the OP is just a light-hearted reference to 'wee keira' and the endless 'Transitional No 1' posts aimed at Fed for years on the original 606.
I don't think the OP intended any sort of serious point, or a serious debate to ensue.

I was more responding to Lydian's comment (and others i have seen on other threads) than to the OP. Its obvious the thread is just a wind up.

It is great to see Tommy getting a run of injury free tennis this late in his career. Fantastic player to watch.

Roddick has a 11-19 record vs Nadal-Djokovic-Murray. Hewitt has a 5-13 record. Haas has a 4-11 record. I dont get why Wee Keira is a mere figment of fanboy imagination. In fact, in fact of Federers slam-winning age contemporaries, only Safin has a winning record against the combined trio (3-2)...

Regardless, congrats to Haas, great win.

kingraf wrote:Roddick has a 11-19 record vs Nadal-Djokovic-Murray. Hewitt has a 5-13 record. Haas has a 4-11 record. I dont get why Wee Keira is a mere figment of fanboy imagination. In fact, in fact of Federers slam-winning age contemporaries, only Safin has a winning record against the combined trio (3-2)...

Regardless, congrats to Haas, great win.

Haas did push Federer twice to 5th sets in slams when Federer was still at/near his best, Nadal nor Djokovic have such competition like that.

This era is really really bad since 2009/10.

Born Slippy wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:Born, the OP is just a light-hearted reference to 'wee keira' and the endless 'Transitional No 1' posts aimed at Fed for years on the original 606.
I don't think the OP intended any sort of serious point, or a serious debate to ensue.

I was more responding to Lydian's comment (and others i have seen on other threads) than to the OP. Its obvious the thread is just a wind up.

It is great to see Tommy getting a run of injury free tennis this late in his career. Fantastic player to watch.

Not only a great player, also a good ambassador for sport athletes in general.

I certainly don't remember Federer losing to a 35 year old in the tour, especially after 2003. All the sudden Fed's wins over Agassi don't look too bad no? Credit to Haas again who can play like God sometimes, even if it's not a slam.

JM, you seem to forget Federer lost to this very same guy in Bo3 format at Halle only last June, i.e. to a 34 year old!

Slam's are not for 35yo guys but in Bo3's they can still shine.

lydian wrote:JM, you seem to forget Federer lost to this very same guy in Bo3 format at Halle only last June, i.e. to a 34 year old!

Slam's are not for 35yo guys but in Bo3's they can still shine.

Warm up tourney Lydian, we know how you hate Federer with every bone in your body, but it's not gonna work today.

Losing in a fast surface like Halle is not the same losing on a slow surface like Miami.

Tommy Haas was always a greatly talented player, that's not controversial. He could give any player of the last 15 years a real tough match, and beat them on occasion, if healthy.

This is just more of the Last of the Summer Wine for Tommy, he seems to be enjoying this part of his career, and we can all imagine why!

Tommy

Good point lydian and bb, although I guess there's quite a difference between Federer losing to a 34 year old Haas (when he himself was almost 31), and a 25 year old Novak losing to Haas whilst in his absolute prime and reigning supreme at Number One.

Ultimately I don't think it has much significance in the overall scheme of things and I'm inclined to go with those who say it was just a bad day at the office for Novak.

Meanwhile Haas continues to climb the rankings and cements his place as the true veteran of the Top 20

Good points lags

JM, absolute hogwash but good to see your propensity for WUMing is seemingly intact. There's nothing like a Nadal or Djokovic loss to bring you scurrying out from under your stone to inject some much missed value ('comedy' that is - although I use the term very loosely) to the forum. For what its worth I respect and admire Federer greatly, I just don't follow him as a fan, never did and people know that. However, you'll note I'm currently eulogising Dimitrov - who plays the game v.similar to Roger. I love to see the game played their way, its great for the future too and by lord we need it in a sea of drill-like DHBHs. Doesn't mean I have to fawn over every guy who plays that way though. Anyway, nice attempt at sidetracking your frankly laughable oversight. Do keep them coming.

Agree BB, Haas is true quality, its no disgrace for any player to lose to him - Federer, Djokovic - in some respects I hope he can complete the trilogy with a win over Nadal (although he's yet to win a set in 5 meetings) then he really can retire with a huge smile on his face.

Hmmm, I fear Tommy may suffer the same very specific match up issue with Rafa that another SHBH player does.......

Needs to get him onto Halle.

I suspect you're right TBH, Nadal eats SHBH for breakfast - infact how many SHBH players have beaten him besides Federer? Any others since he's been top 10? Yep, if Kohli can despatch Nadal @ Halle, Tommy sure can, and on home turf too. He'd even push Nadal (or any others) at Wimby. I'll be hoping Nadal gets to avoid him in both!

All right Lydian. I will refer to Lags comment who spoke profound words of wisdom, seriously lacking from any Nole fans. Why do you refer to old Haas beating old Federer like it's a huge surprise? Nole is going the way Federer went after '08, losing his aura and fear factor and ultimately his weaponry. Talk about Federer losing to Haas who is a former number 2 in the ranking, Horacio Zeballos has never even been top 20.

As I said watch the match, Haas did nothing special. Good for him though he was playing at the 4th round of the masters and still had to pull it off. Please note the amusing nature of some who complain about era conversations but can't wait for the first opportunity for a younger star to lose a match to an older verteran before they start talking about how this proves that there was no weak era.

I have to say that despite wanting Murray to win Miami and take the number 2 ranking, I would like to see a Haas inspired Miami victory. Surely it has to happen

socal1976 wrote:As I said watch the match, Haas did nothing special. Good for him though he was playing at the 4th round of the masters and still had to pull it off. Please note the amusing nature of some who complain about era conversations but can't wait for the first opportunity for a younger star to lose a match to an older verteran before they start talking about how this proves that there was no weak era.

This article is satirical if you used your intuition. The OP doesn't believe in Weak or Strong era, just a little dig at silly articles under the same title.

Yep LK, seems only fair that Haas now completes the fairytale. Ok, the guy has no chance of a slam but winning a Masters (his 2nd, 1st in 2001!) would be a great way to top out his career. Its not inconceivable.

HM Murdoch wrote:I'll turn a blind eye to the OP and discuss the match (although, I would appeal that if people want to WUM, please make the effort to make it humourous).

There are two levels of observation here.

Specific to the match itself, we again saw Novak's Achilles heel exposed - that of struggling to play tricky conditions. In New York last year we saw his game collapse in the face of strong wind. Last night it was cold, the ball was bouncing low and Novak again struggled.

At a broader level, I think he's just a bit tired. As far as I'm aware, he's been on the road since a few days before Dubai and I think that takes its toll after a while. Last night was the first truly horrible performance he's turned in but he's been lacking a bit of 'zip' since IW really.

No huge cause for concern at this stage. A bit of rest and the injection of enthusiasm that the road to RG will bring, and I'd hope to see him back to his best.

I can't agree with this murdoch, if you can point to one interesting or knowledgeable post by the individual in question in regards to the substance of tennis I would be glad to hear of it. I have never found any of his threads to be anything but smack talking, wind up pieces, or smear campaigns like when he claimed Djokovic tried to cheat and it impacted the the match on a call that was given to del po, on a point he lost, on a call that wasn't Djokovic's to make. Sadly the individual in question needs my special attention it seems he craves it to make his time on this forum worthwhile and to make himself look funny, interesting, or knowledgeable which he really isn't on the subject of tennis. If you don't have anything interesting to say ever you post threads like this.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

socal1976 wrote:As I said watch the match, Haas did nothing special. Good for him though he was playing at the 4th round of the masters and still had to pull it off. Please note the amusing nature of some who complain about era conversations but can't wait for the first opportunity for a younger star to lose a match to an older verteran before they start talking about how this proves that there was no weak era.

This article is satirical if you used your intuition. The OP doesn't believe in Weak or Strong era, just a little dig at silly articles under the same title.

I get it when you guys do it is satire, when others do it is dull, boring, and repetitive. There is a word for that in the english language but I am too nice to apply it to my fellow posters.

socal1976 wrote:

HM Murdoch wrote:I'll turn a blind eye to the OP and discuss the match (although, I would appeal that if people want to WUM, please make the effort to make it humourous).

There are two levels of observation here.

Specific to the match itself, we again saw Novak's Achilles heel exposed - that of struggling to play tricky conditions. In New York last year we saw his game collapse in the face of strong wind. Last night it was cold, the ball was bouncing low and Novak again struggled.

At a broader level, I think he's just a bit tired. As far as I'm aware, he's been on the road since a few days before Dubai and I think that takes its toll after a while. Last night was the first truly horrible performance he's turned in but he's been lacking a bit of 'zip' since IW really.

No huge cause for concern at this stage. A bit of rest and the injection of enthusiasm that the road to RG will bring, and I'd hope to see him back to his best.

I can't agree with this murdoch, if you can point to one interesting or knowledgeable post by the individual in question in regards to the substance of tennis I would be glad to hear of it. I have never found any of his threads to be anything but smack talking, wind up pieces, or smear campaigns like when he claimed Djokovic tried to cheat and it impacted the the match on a call that was given to del po, on a point he lost, on a call that wasn't Djokovic's to make. Sadly the individual in question needs my special attention it seems he craves it to make his time on this forum worthwhile and to make himself look funny, interesting, or knowledgeable which he really isn't on the subject of tennis. If you don't have anything interesting to say ever you post threads like this.

Coming from you that is genius.

Articles like this are to be expected after a win like last night - and to be fair its a big story due to the age gap. Socal, you have been vociferous in your denigration of the "rollover generation" with "empanada (what is that? presume food) Dave" from which Haas comes. The irony is that Djokovic is also your favourite player so a little latitude is to be expected. What we don't want is weak/strong era threads everyday when "normal" tennis is or isn't going on.

socal1976 wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

socal1976 wrote:As I said watch the match, Haas did nothing special. Good for him though he was playing at the 4th round of the masters and still had to pull it off. Please note the amusing nature of some who complain about era conversations but can't wait for the first opportunity for a younger star to lose a match to an older verteran before they start talking about how this proves that there was no weak era.

This article is satirical if you used your intuition. The OP doesn't believe in Weak or Strong era, just a little dig at silly articles under the same title.

I get it when you guys do it is satire, when others do it is dull, boring, and repetitive. There is a word for that in the english language but I am too nice to apply it to my fellow posters.

I've neevr said the weak/strong era debate is BORING. What has been boring is the talk of asterisk slams and how players have been lucky to not be born at the same time as their rivals.

socal1976 wrote:I can't agree with this murdoch, if you can point to one interesting or knowledgeable post by the individual in question in regards to the substance of tennis I would be glad to hear of it...

I think you may have misunderstood what I wrote(?)

I said I was turning a blind eye to the opening post (which I didn't think was humourous) and would discuss the match.

Or are you disagreeing with me on something else?

lydian wrote:Articles like this are to be expected after a win like last night - and to be fair its a big story due to the age gap. Socal, you have been vociferous in your denigration of the "rollover generation" with "empanada (what is that? presume food) Dave" from which Haas comes. The irony is that Djokovic is also your favourite player so a little latitude is to be expected. What we don't want is weak/strong era threads everyday when "normal" tennis is or isn't going on.

Actually I never mention Haas in my critique of the rollover generation because he spent much of the time on the surgery table and I often say very nice things about him. I do expect this conduct but at least try to make it interesting and funny, which sadly it wasn't. It is a bizarre match, as Djokovic said the worst match he has played in years. This is how every era conversation starts. Ferrer or Haas, or ljubicic before wins a big match and it is used as proof of no such thing as a strong era or weak era. Whatever, Julius doesn't need the extra work, I said my piece. At least this exposes some of the hypocrisy in the critiques directed at me.

If anyone can point to a single incident of me rubbing in federer's face after a bad loss, I would be happy to see evidence of said conduct because I don't think I ever have.

HM Murdoch wrote:

socal1976 wrote:I can't agree with this murdoch, if you can point to one interesting or knowledgeable post by the individual in question in regards to the substance of tennis I would be glad to hear of it...

I think you may have misunderstood what I wrote(?)

I said I was turning a blind eye to the opening post (which I didn't think was humourous) and would discuss the match.

Or are you disagreeing with me on something else?

Anyway I didn't see you discuss much of the tennis at all socal apart from "Djokovic was just bad" and "anyone could have beat him".

HM Murdoch wrote:

socal1976 wrote:I can't agree with this murdoch, if you can point to one interesting or knowledgeable post by the individual in question in regards to the substance of tennis I would be glad to hear of it...

I think you may have misunderstood what I wrote(?)

I said I was turning a blind eye to the opening post (which I didn't think was humourous) and would discuss the match.

Or are you disagreeing with me on something else?

Yes sorry murdoch I reread what you said my bad, all apologies.

Might I suggest that any detailed discussion of the match itself be done on either a new thread or the existing Miami thread.
This one seems to have run it's course, and then some.
There is also ' Era' thread not two weeks old, if people really want to keep discussing it.

I think you mistake thrust of my posts. Infact, Sometimes I really wish you would read posts better rather than building strawmen for scenarios that never existed in the first place. I'm not poking fun at you. What I was saying is that its not surprising these type of articles come up when this type of loss occurs - especially where its Djokovic in relation to a guy old enough to be from the rollover/weak generation for which you were the key proponent espousing said label. Besides, think yourself lucky he didn't lose to Rosol

Yep JHM...this one isn't going to go anywhere good.

JuliusHMarx wrote:Might I suggest that any detailed discussion of the match itself be done on either a new thread or the existing Miami thread.
This one seems to have run it's course, and then some.
There is also ' Era' thread not two weeks old, if people really want to keep discussing it.

So you want people to write less articles and comments? How is this is in any way good for the site?

As long as the 'banter' is light hearted it should be ok, I'm not in favour of locking and culling, however I suspect this thread wont stay as "banter" for long if left to run its course.

lydian wrote:Whichever way you look at it, it's a gargantuan win for a 35 year old (next week) veteran. Djokovic probably wasnt 100% but then maybe Haas wasn't either. A win is a win and a surprising one at that on slower HC. There's no denying Haas can play a little - he caused Fed no end of trouble at RG09 then beat him at Halle - and hints at what could have been but for that tragic accident in 2002. But Socal, you know you're going to get stick after calling Haas and his era the rollover generation...

A perfect statement Lyd , neither player was it his best, but on the given day Haas looked complete superior player, anyways this is not the first time he beat Djokovic, he has schooled him in the past in Wim and Queens, but on Hardcourts that slow one thats surprising.

HM Murdoch wrote:I'll turn a blind eye to the OP and discuss the match (although, I would appeal that if people want to WUM, please make the effort to make it humourous).

There are two levels of observation here.

Specific to the match itself, we again saw Novak's Achilles heel exposed - that of struggling to play tricky conditions. In New York last year we saw his game collapse in the face of strong wind. Last night it was cold, the ball was bouncing low and Novak again struggled.

At a broader level, I think he's just a bit tired. As far as I'm aware, he's been on the road since a few days before Dubai and I think that takes its toll after a while. Last night was the first truly horrible performance he's turned in but he's been lacking a bit of 'zip' since IW really.

No huge cause for concern at this stage. A bit of rest and the injection of enthusiasm that the road to RG will bring, and I'd hope to see him back to his best.

Very sensible post HMM , there is really no concern with one defeat and Djoko is the man to beat on the current tour, but Haas demanded the respect with that kinda performance and I am sure you agree to it

CaledonianCraig wrote:One random win is evidence? In that case this era is steeped in depth of talent considering one ranked so lowly can beat one ranked so highly in a slam a la Lukas Rosol V Rafael Nadal.

Not one random win, Haas has beaten Djoko several times, queens and Wim back to back, I think Haas has beaten Djoko enough to gain some respect, its not like Rosol that he beat Nadal by once by fluke.

It will be a random and rather empty win though if Haas fails to back it up with at least a march to the final which is by no means guaranteed. Players are remembered for titles won not for head-to-head records.

I was at No 1 Court for that great day when Haas beat Djokovic in four and Roddick beat Hewitt in 5. What a day!

CaledonianCraig wrote:It will be a random and rather empty win though if Haas fails to back it up with at least a march to the final which is by no means guaranteed. Players are remembered for titles won not for head-to-head records.

You are expecting too much from a 35 year old CC, he gave me so much fun yesterday, I will remember this match for sure, indeed many would remember this match for the way Tommy took the game to Djoko, its easy to say Djoko played bad but the reason he played bad is coz Tommy made him play bad.

Djoko panicked early and looked very nervous once Haas got it rolling, Djoko mistimed several forehand shots coz he was so damn nervous, this match will give him some hope for the underdogs to play Djoko with some hope, it might inspire most underdogs barring Almugro who again will play great and will collapse like he did again this tourney.

@ BB

What a match that was, I was there at Queens when the match happened, even that time I believed Haas would beat Djoko and people called it a fluke and we all know what happened when the met again in the Wim. Those feat might likely not happen for Haas again as he is too old but yesterday's win was just fantastic.