Ireland v Scotland, Dublin, 6Ns 2024 Round 5
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Ireland v Scotland, Dublin, 6Ns 2024 Round 5
Scotland can try to redeem themselves... Guess we're back to where we're happiest, the dark horse underdog extraordinaire. Maybe without the dark horse tag.
Stats
Bookies say 1/10 for an Ireland win 6/1 for a Scotland upset.
Last Scotland win was 2017 at Murrayfield under Vern Cotter 27-22.
Last 8 encounters Ireland have won, the biggest margin in the 2019 WC where Ireland won 27-3, the average difference being 17 points.
Last Dublin encounter Ireland won 26-5 in 2022.
Ireland just basically have to win to win the title.
Scotland will be chasing the triple crown but a title is far less likely, with best case scenario possibly second.
Prediction
Mine will be a professional Irish win against a somewhat improved but typically limited Scotland performance. They are at least 17 points better, and none of the evidence from this year points to anything other than a continued run of form against Scotland. The points difference depends on the Scottish bench selection and use.
36-12
Townsend to finally call it quits (I hope).
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carpet baboon wrote:Out of interest who would you want as your new coach?
Continuity wise, Franco Smith. As it stands I don't think we'd do worse and would more likely improve. Certainly consistency wise.
But it's a difficult question to answer, which is probably why Toonie is still in post in a somewhat unhealthy relationship with the SRU as I expect no-one wants to hire him or certainly not for as much as he's been rolled by Dodson over the years.
The problem with Scottish rugby is coaches from the outside have a lot less familiarity with the club game than say, the English premiership.
Even if Tandy was promoted and the backroom staff shuffled like Ireland with Farrell it may change the dynamic for the better, you feel Toonie has never managed to get the right mindset in place. He's not a bad coach but we've spent the last 5 years stagnating and have never really progressed from the odd one off performance. You look at Italy and feel their ducks are in a row and that it'll be a good decade for them.
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Hoping 5-3 spilt to.
In terms of wing, if Nash and Frawley are not fit. Ringrose maybe or at 23, isn’t he fit now?
If it gets desperate, Gibson-Park at 14
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He set us up to go 100 MPh all out attack from the off even though that's when their defence is at its strongest. We turned down easy points to keep building pressure to keep battering away fruitlessness at the line instead, losing confidence when time and time again we didn't score. We lost some early tries then imploded.
On the plus side, we usually put in a strong performance after a terrible one, particularly when we're underdogs. But I can't see anything other than Ireland romping home to the championship and us likely finishing 4th!
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NeilyBroon wrote:carpet baboon wrote:Out of interest who would you want as your new coach?
Continuity wise, Franco Smith. As it stands I don't think we'd do worse and would more likely improve. Certainly consistency wise.
But it's a difficult question to answer, which is probably why Toonie is still in post in a somewhat unhealthy relationship with the SRU as I expect no-one wants to hire him or certainly not for as much as he's been rolled by Dodson over the years.
The problem with Scottish rugby is coaches from the outside have a lot less familiarity with the club game than say, the English premiership.
Even if Tandy was promoted and the backroom staff shuffled like Ireland with Farrell it may change the dynamic for the better, you feel Toonie has never managed to get the right mindset in place. He's not a bad coach but we've spent the last 5 years stagnating and have never really progressed from the odd one off performance. You look at Italy and feel their ducks are in a row and that it'll be a good decade for them.
Franco is a good coach, definitely someone who is very switched on. I think he would be good in an upstairs role at the SRU to oversee development and age grade rugby. Scotland look to still be really suffering at age grade, I worked that out when they continued to struggle against Wales… The team has plugged gaps by finding good SQ players but Scotland somehow need to entice more juniors to play rugby otherwise they’ll probably just stay at this level. I think the current team has potential, but they struggle with depth due to having just 2 clubs.
As for this game in Dublin, well it doesn’t look good for Scotland tbh but they could surprise everyone.
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Scotland can’t cope with how Ireland play (as RDW says, this was particularly highlighted in the WC) and given we are seemingly incapable of playing for longer than 40mins, this is going to be embarrassing. I can’t see us getting ahead on the scoreboard in the period of time we look like something approaching a professional rugby team. When we inevitably transform into an under 12, 3rds team who are meeting for the first time in the changing room, then Ireland will run wild and put a very healthy score past us. I hope you like pens Ireland, because you’re going to witness a Scotland team giving them away with something approaching almost admirable proficiency.
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Cummings, Gilchrist
Ritchie, Darge,
Dempsey
White, Russell
Redpath, Jones
VDM, Steyn
Kinghorn
Turner, Bhatti, Millar Mills, Skinner, Christie, Horne, Healy, McDowall
Something like that for me. A shame to not give Hutchinson a run this six nations but I think McDowall deserves a shot off the bench. He was pretty effective away to Benetton.
Scotland need to improve their kick chase and compete harder for the ball.
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So Byrne onto the bench for Baird,
Personally I would start Baird and drop POM but I get a feeling this will be Pete's last game for Ireland so let's send him of as a 6ns winning captain
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"Dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooomed"
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jimbopip wrote:I was saying to Bigson today that at the end of the Italy match you could see the Scotland players lined up to applaud Italy off..except for Jack Dempsey who was standing about ten feet away watching. On the SRU f/b page there was a pic of the team in their post match huddle all linking arms and completing the circle except for the gap where Dempsey should be. He was about six foot away looking on.oh and the other Glasgow's 8, Ally Miller , has been called up to the squad.
Interesting.
I can see his frustration, it was a big call to swap Australia for Scotland. Probably now sees Schmidt in place on the flip side of the world and perhaps is regretting his move. He was one of the few to come out with some credit on Saturday.
Bhatti out too. If Tiffany had been playing exceptionally well I'd get it but he really hasn't. Can't see what he offers more than Bhatti.
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Tramptastic! Never mind the early team announcement just tell us who wants Toonie to stay and who wants him to fecc off sharpish.
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jimbopip wrote:As I alluded to earlier, neily, Bhatti 's injury may be more gravy than grave as Scrooge might say. I wonder if some of the squad are as disenchanted as some of the posters on here.
Tramptastic! Never mind the early team announcement just tell us who wantsToonieyou to stay and who wants him to fecc off sharpish.
He won't be much use at that Jim, unless the players are telling him to his face! We already know his secret mole is just an alibi and a thinly-veiled egotistical metaphor for his brain.
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The funny thing about the Scottish psyche is I think our chances of beating Ireland have actually improved after our loss to Italy
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RDW wrote:Well I landed in the homeland yesterday which means I have the misfortune of being able to watch this game live.
The funny thing about the Scottish psyche is I think our chances of beating Ireland have actually improved after our loss to Italy
You're not wrong. Though I think Ireland's single-minded winning machine is somewhat stronger
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RDW wrote:
The funny thing about the Scottish psyche is I think our chances of beating Ireland have actually improved after our loss to Italy
Well we only have to beat Ireland by 77+pts and deny them anything from the match, and if results go our way in the France v England game, we're 6n champions. It's so easy it's barely worth considering any other alternative to that happening. I mean obviously because we only play for 40mins and then go into passive & penalty mode, we'll likely need to get 100pts+ in the first half. Absolutely nailed on.
Or and I mean this is barely worth considering as the first option is so likely, Ireland will be pissed after losing their chance at back to back grand slams and will take us to the cleaners.
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NeilyBroon wrote:jimbopip wrote:As I alluded to earlier, neily, Bhatti 's injury may be more gravy than grave as Scrooge might say. I wonder if some of the squad are as disenchanted as some of the posters on here.
Tramptastic! Never mind the early team announcement just tell us who wantsToonieyou to stay and who wants him to fecc off sharpish.
He won't be much use at that Jim, unless the players are telling him to his face! We already know his secret mole is just an alibi and a thinly-veiled egotistical metaphor for his brain.
Neily has hit it on the head. I, toonie, have an ego akin to the american orange trumpet. I require validation from online strangers and bots to give me any form of self worth.
Your support is required, negative opinions on how i manage this golden generation are fake news sponsored by the extremist left. Glory to me.
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Tramptastic wrote:NeilyBroon wrote:jimbopip wrote:As I alluded to earlier, neily, Bhatti 's injury may be more gravy than grave as Scrooge might say. I wonder if some of the squad are as disenchanted as some of the posters on here.
Tramptastic! Never mind the early team announcement just tell us who wantsToonieyou to stay and who wants him to fecc off sharpish.
He won't be much use at that Jim, unless the players are telling him to his face! We already know his secret mole is just an alibi and a thinly-veiled egotistical metaphor for his brain.
Neily has hit it on the head. I, toonie, have an ego akin to the american orange trumpet. I require validation from online strangers and bots to give me any form of self worth.
Your support is required, negative opinions on how i manage this golden generation are fake news sponsored by the extremist left. Glory to me.
Wait until I tell GB news!
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EWT Spoons wrote:RDW wrote:
The funny thing about the Scottish psyche is I think our chances of beating Ireland have actually improved after our loss to Italy
Well we only have to beat Ireland by 77+pts and deny them anything from the match, and if results go our way in the France v England game, we're 6n champions. It's so easy it's barely worth considering any other alternative to that happening. I mean obviously because we only play for 40mins and then go into passive & penalty mode, we'll likely need to get 100pts+ in the first half. Absolutely nailed on.
Or and I mean this is barely worth considering as the first option is so likely, Ireland will be pissed after losing their chance at back to back grand slams and will take us to the cleaners.
Stafford to score his first quadruple hattrick in a single handed dismantling of Ireland when Toonie finally subs him on at 79 minutes.
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NeilyBroon wrote:Tramptastic wrote:NeilyBroon wrote:jimbopip wrote:As I alluded to earlier, neily, Bhatti 's injury may be more gravy than grave as Scrooge might say. I wonder if some of the squad are as disenchanted as some of the posters on here.
Tramptastic! Never mind the early team announcement just tell us who wantsToonieyou to stay and who wants him to fecc off sharpish.
He won't be much use at that Jim, unless the players are telling him to his face! We already know his secret mole is just an alibi and a thinly-veiled egotistical metaphor for his brain.
Neily has hit it on the head. I, toonie, have an ego akin to the american orange trumpet. I require validation from online strangers and bots to give me any form of self worth.
Your support is required, negative opinions on how i manage this golden generation are fake news sponsored by the extremist left. Glory to me.
Wait until I tell GB news!
Talking of, any inkling of team news tramp?
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Tramptastic wrote:Im afraid not, still trying to decide between finn or stafford at 10
Meatball off the bench to solve our tight head problem?
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Tramptastic wrote:Im bringing phil vickery back for one last cap. At 13.
Would be a bigger threat than McDowell!
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Tramptastic wrote:Im bringing phil vickery back for one last cap. At 13.
Didn't realise he was dual qualified. Have England not capped him there in the last 3 years? He must be hitting his peak now?
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RDW wrote:Tramptastic wrote:Im bringing phil vickery back for one last cap. At 13.
Would be a bigger threat than McDowell!
I'm going to put it out there, McDowall is going to start next week, due to already knowing Shug from weegieland and the non-start of huw cajones.
We'll witness the dawn of Stafford. No combining names here, there is just one.
You heard it here first.
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That is true, but it's also fair to say that our mental fragility shouldn't swing from 'showing it' to 'complete collapse' so easily.
Last edited by RDW on Wed 13 Mar 2024, 6:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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RDW wrote:Fraser Brown coming out in defense of the team and the claims of mental fragility. His reasoning being we've shown good mental resilience in several of our big wins in recent years.
That is true, but it's also fair to say that our mental fragility shouldn't swing from 'showing it to 'complete collapse' so easily.
Safe to say we've out Frenched the French.
My stab at the xv:
1. Schoe
2. Turner
3. Ragnar
4. Cummings
5. Gilchrist
6. Mbawza (Christie will be the fall guy for Saturday)
7. Darge (c)
8. Dempsey (if he's not on the naughty step for not joining the big cuddle)
9. White (Horne didn't show control when it was needed)
10. Russell (c)
11. Dwayne
12. Lord Stafford
13. Shug
14. Seaman
15. Here's a bold claim, Paterson as a bolter
16. Ashman
17. Tiffany Schrödinger
18. Miller man
19. Principal
20. Fagerson/Dempsey/Christie
21. Horne (the 6:2 did nothing for us. Change my mind)
22. Henry Healy
23. King Blairhorn
Last edited by NeilyBroon on Wed 13 Mar 2024, 6:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Ireland v Scotland, Dublin, 6Ns 2024 Round 5
Johnnie Beattie is on the beeb website saying that, basically, we kicked lots in rounds 1-3 and bugger all against the Azzurri.He is slightly more nuanced than that but probably, like Walter Scott, gets paid by the word. The main point being that it was a change in tactics rather than mental fragility what cost us the game.
White will probably start with Hornito to bench: the innovative tactic of bringing on the slowest 9 since Henners and Frodo played in the three-legged Olympics was not the sunning success Toonie envisaged.
12 will be crucial. The Irish love to smash the ball up with VDF and POM looking to create quick ruck ball. I'm not convinced Redpath is the Horatius who will hold back the heathen hordes for us. Nor was I overly impressed with the way he linked with Shug in attack.
So we need a big lad who can tackle all day long, knows Shug's style of playing and has the distributing skills to get the ball out to him, oh and someone who can kick would be a bonus.
I'm sure there's someone but ...it'll come to me.
You know we all chuckled when Wee Shona said of Dwayne, "He's actually Poopie at rugby: all he can do is run in wonder tries from his own goal line."? Well, Dwayne's defensive positioning has been shown to be somewhat lacking in the last two games. If i was looking to bring Banjo in it wouldn't be for Blarehorn.
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jimbopip wrote:I like the team Neily. I think Christie was dynamic and aggressive but then so is MrsPip and she won't be starting on Sunday either.
Johnnie Beattie is on the beeb website saying that, basically, we kicked lots in rounds 1-3 and bugger all against the Azzurri.He is slightly more nuanced than that but probably, like Walter Scott, gets paid by the word. The main point being that it was a change in tactics rather than mental fragility what cost us the game.
White will probably start with Hornito to bench: the innovative tactic of bringing on the slowest 9 since Henners and Frodo played in the three-legged Olympics was not the sunning success Toonie envisaged.
12 will be crucial. The Irish love to smash the ball up with VDF and POM looking to create quick ruck ball. I'm not convinced Redpath is the Horatius who will hold back the heathen hordes for us. Nor was I overly impressed with the way he linked with Shug in attack.
So we need a big lad who can tackle all day long, knows Shug's style of playing and has the distributing skills to get the ball out to him, oh and someone who can kick would be a bonus.
I'm sure there's someone but ...it'll come to me.
You know we all chuckled when Wee Shona said of Dwayne, "He's actually Poopie at rugby: all he can do is run in wonder tries from his own goal line."? Well, Dwayne's defensive positioning has been shown to be somewhat lacking in the last two games. If i was looking to bring Banjo in it wouldn't be for Blarehorn.
I agree that Christie would be my choice but the toonbola axe has a habit of falling on the players who showed up for the game we lost because they made everyone else look bad.
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I would settle for a car dashboard bobblehead doll of Scott Robertson. Far more dynamic and full of wisdom than Gregor PJ Townsend.carpet baboon wrote:Out of interest who would you want as your new coach?
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Various analysts have said that there must have either been a conscious change in team-wide strategy or a collective player revolt against Italy because the amount we kicked v passed was hugely consistent in our first three games and then completely barking in the 4th game where we did our Harlem Globetrotters impression. Both of these options are the coach's fault. It is inexplicable to me that knowing our best players are binary and cannot really change but our coaching team and gameplan really can, that we don't look to optimise by swapping out. Or do we really think Toonie has been keeping things under wraps for the first 5 years of underachievement?
I genuinely hope we get spanked if that means that Townsend finally decides that he has pulled the nation's trousers down for long enough.
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George Carlin wrote:Our Irish cousins can look forward to our standard second-half mental collapse. Duhan will throw his opposing winger around like a dog's chew toy, score twice and we will still lose.
Various analysts have said that there must have either been a conscious change in team-wide strategy or a collective player revolt against Italy because the amount we kicked v passed was hugely consistent in our first three games and then completely barking in the 4th game where we did our Harlem Globetrotters impression. Both of these options are the coach's fault. It is inexplicable to me that knowing our best players are binary and cannot really change but our coaching team and gameplan really can, that we don't look to optimise by swapping out. Or do we really think Toonie has been keeping things under wraps for the first 5 years of underachievement?
I genuinely hope we get spanked if that means that Townsend finally decides that he has pulled the nation's trousers down for long enough.
GC, I never had you down as an ex public schoolboy.
FES on the other hand
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Re: Ireland v Scotland, Dublin, 6Ns 2024 Round 5
Consider this a verbal warning, young man. Even though you're reading it.
My shout?
Front five unchanged.
Christie-Dempsey-Fagerson
White-Dancer
Stafford-Shug
back three unchanged.
5/3 split Darge back row cover, Hornito, Henry Healey ( to come on and kick the winning points) Banjo to replace Dwayne if he doesn't do any defending.
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Turner
Fagerson
Gilchrist
Cummings
Christie
Darge
Dempsey
White
Russell
Duhan
Stafford
Huw
Steyn
Blairhorn
Sutherland
Ashman
Millar mills
Skinner
Fagerson
Horne
Redpath
Rowe
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Re: Ireland v Scotland, Dublin, 6Ns 2024 Round 5
Tramptastic wrote:Schoe
Turner
Fagerson
Gilchrist
Cummings
Christie
Darge
Dempsey
White
Russell
Duhan
Stafford
Huw
Steyn
Blairhorn
Sutherland
Ashman
Millar mills
Skinner
Fagerson
Horne
Redpath
Rowe
Thank you Tramp, your warning has been rescinded.
The only change is at 12, other than the much refreshed White back in and Aldi Price deemed Good To Go (someone explain that to FES). So, if the players follow Toonie's instructions, remain on the reservation, and we win then his job is as safe as Keir Starmer's . If we have another Italy he's as safe as a young Macaulay Culkin in a seminary.
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Agreed. I cannot believe a Scotland has a shortage of square, rotund types with no necks and a chippy attitude.NeilyBroon wrote:Good looking squad, can't complain about that. Will be interesting to see how Sutherland goes. The tight head situation really needs urgent addressing though! Is there absolutely no-one we can bring back to the Scottish rugby fold? How's Nicol these days??
I only need look back to some of the women I dated for several good examples.
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Who says Toonie doesn't have a sense of humour?
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jimbopip wrote:Sutherland on the bench Schrodinger's Prop dropped. Jamie Bhatti will be kicking himself. Or he would if he hadn't "accidently " dropped a weight on his foot.
Who says Toonie doesn't have a sense of humour?
The Bhatti stuff all is a bit odd given our prop shortage. It's not as if he's rank awful either, definitely a more dynamic option than Tiffany and probably has 5 times the minutes of Sutherland this season.
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Location : Southampton
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