World Rugby U20 Championship in South Africa 29 June-19 July

doctor_grey wrote:Don't know how the game unfolded, but is a very nervous looking English side.  

Cumbrian wrote:Pollock looks an outstanding talent, but I do worry that he may not be able to translate it up to senior level.  It is perhaps because I've been burned by Aaron Hinkley who was also an all action openside at U20s, I was absolutely convinced that he would go on to be an international.  

If I was putting money on a back-row going all the way to international at the moment, it would be Carnduff, but I think any one of the pack have a decent chance.  The backs less so, but there are still some lads worth keeping an eye on.

doctor_grey wrote:...how good are the back division and who really looks like the goods?...

15. Ioan Jones
Born in Gloucester and attached to his hometown club since the age of 13, Jones picked up three senior appearances for the Cherry and Whites last season. Two arrived from the bench in the Premiership as part of heavily rotated squads, and the pacey runner was also loaned to Hartpury in the Championship. Gloucester’s fly-half options – Gareth Anscombe, Santi Carreras, Charlie Atkinson, George Barton – are all comfortable at full-back, which will probably require Jones to be patient. His defensive poise is a huge plus, though. Jones made a superb read on the edge in the second half against France.

14. Angus Hall
A centre who has been posted on the wing and has another year in the U20 ranks, Hall has demonstrated his finishing prowess in this tournament. His club is Saracens, where he is yet to play in the Premiership Cup and could be loaned out to the Championship or the National Leagues.

13. Ben Waghorn
A strapping athlete, Waghorn has benefited from Harlequins’ connection with London Scottish to receive some Championship game-time. His chances are likely to come there and in the Premiership Cup for the foreseeable future, with outside centres such as Luke Northmore, Will Joseph, Oscar Beard and Hayden Hyde vying for action. Waghorn’s probing chip, with the outside of his boot, led to England’s decisive try in the final.

12. Sean Kerr
Prior to an impressive U20 Six Nations, at the beginning of last season, Kerr started for Harlequins against Nottingham in the Premiership Cup and then had a few National One run-outs for Richmond. Lennox Anyanwu and Bryn Bradley would appear to be ahead of him as candidates to succeed André Esterhuizen. Weighing 87kg, Kerr may need to add bulk to stay at inside centre. That said, he has had a fine season for England U20. It is understood that all four Harlequins in this match-day 23 will be dual-registered with London Scottish for 2024-25.

11. Alex Wills
Alex Sanderson is not shy of fast-tracking young talent and Wills, previously of the Worcester Warriors academy, started for Sale against the Stormers in the Champions Cup back in January. Even with Arron Reed, Tom Roebuck and Tom O’Flaherty around, he is set for further involvement. Wills’ left foot will be particularly handy as he goes through the ranks.

10. Ben Coen
England’s front-line fly-half was also, technically, the squad’s only member to be without a contract. Coen, another 19-year-old who will qualify for the U20s next season, effectively went to the World Championship as an Exeter University player, having started the BUCS final against Loughborough. He is said to have been in negotiations to extend his affiliation to Exeter Chiefs, but several other clubs, including Saracens, have shown interest.

9. Ollie Allan
A neat, skilful operator who had not represented England U20 before this tournament, Allan was recruited by Leicester Tigers upon the demise of London Irish. He came off the bench against Bedford in the Premiership Cup and started a victory over Black Lion, the Georgian club side, in a friendly. Studying at Loughborough University, he will continue to be available for BUCS and National Two fixtures while learning from Jack van Poortvliet, Ben Youngs and Tom Whiteley. Nottingham has been a popular loan destination for Tigers as well.

Among those to miss the final, or the tournament altogether, scrum-half Archie McParland is sitting behind Alex Mitchell and Tom James at third on Northampton’s scrum-half depth chart. A rocky first Premiership start at Bristol in March will at least have helped build experience.

Having featured eight times in the Premiership and twice more in the Challenge Cup for Newcastle Falcons last season, Ben Redshaw will remain in the first-team mix under Steve Diamond. Steve Borthwick is known to be a fan. Redshaw trained with the senior side during the World Cup and has another year at U20 level.

doctor_grey wrote:Thanks for sharing the article from The Telegraph.  I didn't see it this morning and this was very interesting.  As you said RF, not quite what I was asking, but my question was probably garbled slightly by the recent global internet failures (presuming the sportswriters at The Telegraph are avid readers of this board and saw my query).  

I certainly hope these young men have the chance to develop with the right coaching.  With the pack made up of quite a few real high potential players (aka. high hype potential), the commentary about the starting back line was great.  It confirms what many of us had been observing that the back line doesn't have any budding superstars but is still  made up of good players.  Kerr seemed to be very busy and seems more mature than U20,  but he wasn't rattling the pillars of heaven either.  

The other thing is the Ben Coen issue.  With a name like that, add the 'h' to the surname, get him to Saints, and that will improve the natural order of things.  He could end up winning a Rugby World Cup....

Sunday Times wrote:So what next for these triumphant lads of Friday night? Most move on, some could be back next year and still make the age restriction. “The national playing programme for the players now jumps back to emphasise their clubs, which is where they came from,” Mapletoft says. “And this is a really challenging space in their careers. Effectively they are coming out of the under-20s and going into the under-35s. It is a tough process.

“It is about them getting opportunities at their club, about being flexible regarding a playing position; if you are a back-row player, can you cover a number of positions? If you are a full back, can you also play in the centre?

“There are stumbling blocks ahead. At the start you could be fifth choice for your club. But I firmly believe that if the guys are good enough, they will find a way to get through.”

doctor_grey wrote:What do you think are the economics of running the club ‘A’ level  comp?  All I would want to see is the competition break even. This would be mostly the walk up tickets purchased as well as any drinks or food. Player salaries are covered by the main squad. I would be assuming a few thousand people for each match?

Back in the day, I recall going to the Gardens on a Monday night to see the wanderers for a tenner.  Some nice Rugby, good folks, and a pint or two makes a great evening.

doctor_grey wrote:Were the A sides ever combined into a league at any time, even if for only one season?  I don't think so, but really can't recall.  With the changing in A sides from game to game with young players, some fringe top level players, or top level players coming back from injury, I'm not sure what a title would mean.  But having a title to shoot for, in a way similar to the Euro Challenge Cup, will always generate some kind of buzz.  And that can help grow the sport.

Poorfour wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Were the A sides ever combined into a league at any time, even if for only one season?  I don't think so, but really can't recall.  With the changing in A sides from game to game with young players, some fringe top level players, or top level players coming back from injury, I'm not sure what a title would mean.  But having a title to shoot for, in a way similar to the Euro Challenge Cup, will always generate some kind of buzz.  And that can help grow the sport.

There was a club A league at one point, with a final and everything. The first time many fans became aware of one J Marler Esq was when he played in an A League final at Welford Road. Quins lost that game - in part because Sam Stuart, the scrum half, picked up an ACL injury that derailed what could have been an excellent career - but it was notable because Marler's opponent in the scrum was Julian White, and Marler (in conjunction with hooker Aston Croall, IIRC) took him to pieces. On the walk back to the station, Tigers fans were asking where they could get a young prop like that.

I'm not sure why the A league fell apart, but I suspect it was relatively expensive to run (although the players effectively come for free, it still needs dedicated coaching, pitches, transport etc) and dual registration with Championship clubs provides similar or better benefits at lower cost.