Carsley's England...for however long it lasts

Two nil up against Ireland at HT in the first Nations League game.

The FA had no pace in recruitment after the previous manager left, and with the Nations League games so close, they decided to give the role to Carsley on an interim basis. Carsley very familiar with the setup having managed England U21s (where he won a trophy) and U20s.

Carsley's first task is to win the Nations League group and reverse England's relegation that was suffered under the previous manager. It should be a fairly simple task, with England's opponents being Finland, Greece and Ireland - all teams that failed to make the last Euros. Indeed, England were 1/12 to win the group before a ball had been kicked!

All the Nations League games are between September-November, then World Cup qualifying starts next year. It should be easy for Carsley to impress during these Nations League games, but will it be enough to get the job permanently?

Pretty comfy win, intensity dropped off after the first half.

Had some answers to beating the press that dominated England all summer. Gordon and Grealish added dynamism to the attack.

Still Ireland were pretty compliant opposition and the big question of how you get Kane, Jude and Foden into the same team remains

Solid win, but doesn't tell us anything. It's laughable that the BBC are drawing comparisons to the Euros, when England faced much tougher opponents in high intensity fixtures. 'England created six big chances, more than in any match at Euro 2024' or 'Pickford's willingness to play out from the back'. Utterly ludicrous stuff.

It should be easy for Carsley to impress during what the Guardian tell us is a 'six game audition', but it'll be very weird if he gets the job full time on the basis of beating some very miserable opponents. If the FA think he's the best man for the job, then fine appoint him, but these games really don't tell us anything and shouldn't factor in to the equation (unless England lose).

It was a good win albeit against pretty average opponents.
I was glad to see Maguire back in side, he is unfairly maligned as whilst not great for Man Utd he is almost always good in an Eng shirt.

One thing though, Kane still a mile off his best. Looks slow and ponderous and no better than in Euros. Getting harder to justify his selection.

Grealish celebrated scoring as he should do. After all the abuse I'd have done same. Quite why Rice tried to appease crowd I don't know, it didn't work!

And a somewhat similar performance against Finland - had a few moments of quality and never looked in danger, but long spells where we had a lot of aimless passing. So far more an evolution from Southgate rather than a revolution.
Kane better last night, not just for his goals but with being in better positions.
Not convinced by Grealish as a true 10 - seemed happier drifting to the inside left channel, where he did OK but took space from Gordon.

Gomes was busy in central midfield, but would probably benefit from a more progressive passer alongside.

I still don't like the narrowness that comes with left footed right wing, right footed left wing and full backs that don't want to overlap much.

So far, I'd give Carsley's England maybe 7 out of 10 - done what they needed to quite effectively and have been pretty good for two halves out of 4.

Think it probably is Carsleys to lose at this point. Enough to suggest a more progressive style and ideas in the setup while being close enough to maintain the off field work Southgate did.

dummy_half wrote:Not convinced by Grealish as a true 10 - seemed happier drifting to the inside left channel, where he did OK but took space from Gordon.

I still don't like the narrowness that comes with left footed right wing, right footed left wing and full backs that don't want to overlap much.

These two points are easy fixes though, when Bellingham/Foden/Palmer and Shaw are fit again.

The left back role is becoming a bit of an issue though, without Shaw we are resigned to playing players out of position, surprised Tyrick Mitchell or Rico Henry haven't been given a chance in these games, at least they're natural left backs.

I think it's a waste of time trying to make any sense of these Nations League games. The teams England are playing are very bad because none of them made the Euros, and if you miss the Euros when pretty much half the continent gets in, you must be very bad.

Easy to look good against rubbish. The only way we'll know if Carsley has improved on the previous manager is when England arrive at the next World Cup. It's a shame England got relegated from the Nations League in 2022, because if they hadn't then England might be playing some top level nations now and we'd get a better idea of where England are.

Carsley's got the job in the bag if he wants it. I'd be stunned if the FA ditched him to go for someone else at this stage. Let's just hope that whatever Carsley serves up is better than the 1978 football from the previous manager.

It's a shambles so far against Greece. Far too loose at back, Pickford almost gifts them a goal and was saved by a brilliant clearance by Colwill. No good having a stack of attacking players starting but no shape or cohesion.

Mmm. Balance is a bit too light at the back, hasn't quite happened for a few yet. Continue to think the best England team probably doesn't start Foden

Maybe Gomes at HT

The press has been a lot better with Gordon on the left

Impression I got from first half was England thought they'd have a stack of attacking players and they'd run riot, score several and Greece wouldn't be a threat. Well so far that's not working out. I admire ambition but it needs structure.

I think it's mostly trying stuff to see what works honestly. Don't expect this will be the opening team for a world cup campaign

Undoubtedly but it's still not good enough. They're playing like it's a charity benefit match not a competitive International.

You must put more stock in the nations league than me

I mostly don't see much point analysing the whole. They're rarely played at anything like the intensity you see in club football. Rather what combinations look like they could work.

Greece score their first goal at Wembley.
I put zero store on Nation's League but this isn't good enough.

Carsley out!

Shambles so far, lucky not to be two down.

Embarrassing.

Who else I guess

There's the keeper I remember from forest

Bellingham spares the blushes but England been terrible.

Woeful utterly woeful.

Not a hugely useful 90 to say the least.

Not sure we needed further confirmation that the best England team leaves some big names on the bench but there it is.

GSC wrote:Not a hugely useful 90 to say the least.

Not sure we needed further confirmation that the best England team leaves some big names on the bench but there it is.

I think we learnt quite a bit to be fair:
1 - Carsley's innovative 2-1-7 formation leaves the central defenders just the tiniest bit exposed
2 - Full backs have a responsibility to defend. The whole 'inverted fullback' idea is a nonsense, as the full backs are neither in a position to supplement the attack or defend.
3 - John Stones is not a particularly good defender (where was he going on the first goal?)
4 - When playing 2 wingers who cut inside and 3 specialist number 10s, plus the inverted fullbacks, it gets hugely congested around the edge of the penalty area and you need miracle passes to come off.
5 - We're still too slow getting the ball forward, allowing the opposing defence to get in good position
6 - Greece are a halfway decent team

I wonder if Carsley just played himself out of the permanent appointment. Not just that the tactics clearly didn't work, but that he was so slow in changing things. We should have been level 30 seconds after he brought on a proper #9.

Have to credit Greece as they were very good. Agree about Carsley not being reactive let alone proactive.

However, that was diabolical last night. For all the crap Southgate got, he'd have picked a team to have won that match last night.

Didn't see the game, but hopefully enough to ensure Carsley doesn't get it permanently.

Southgate's lack of experience at the managerial top level was exposed when he came up against tough teams (Mancini schooling him in 2021 in particular), and it would have been/will be the same for Carsley. Carsley's experience is even less than Southgate's at the same stage, with Southgate having a couple of seasons in the PL before becoming England manager.

All the U21 experience in the world doesn't compare to getting a manager with actual top level experience, which is what England need.

Duty281 wrote:Didn't see the game, but hopefully enough to ensure Carsley doesn't get it permanently.

Southgate's lack of experience at the managerial top level was exposed when he came up against tough teams (Mancini schooling him in 2021 in particular), and it would have been/will be the same for Carsley. Carsley's experience is even less than Southgate's at the same stage, with Southgate having a couple of seasons in the PL before becoming England manager.

All the U21 experience in the world doesn't compare to getting a manager with actual top level experience, which is what England need.

The headlines are 1-2, with England equalising 5 minutes from time and then conceding late on- both goals should have been stopped by the defenders. Missing from that is that Greece had the ball in England's net 3 other times, all correectly ruled out for offside, although on at least one it was more luck than judgement of the defenders (the attacker went about a tenth of a second too soon). also one desperately hooked off the line after a Pickford error.

I've seen other comments about square pegs in round holes, and this was FAR worse than was ever the case with Southgate. No number 9, with Bellingham playing as a false 9, Foden a 10 and Palmer notionally alongside Rice in central midfield. Saka and Gordon forever turning inside off their wings and neither fullback overlapping. No space, no width and no tempo. I think the only player who ended the night with his reputation enhanced was Kane, siting watching in the stand.

The only defence I can see for Carsley would be if he turned to the journalists and went - told you that wouldn't work. Now we'll do it the sensible way.

Fairly professional performance, not much of note from it beyond a great Trent FK. Grealish staked his claim to be one of the attacking three, Palmer didn't do much. Kane continues to look like a player past his best. Midfield looks better with Gomes next to Rice.

GSC wrote:Fairly professional performance, not much of note from it beyond a great Trent FK. Grealish staked his claim to be one of the attacking three, Palmer didn't do much. Kane continues to look like a player past his best. Midfield looks better with Gomes next to Rice.

Basically looked like a Southgate's England performance. Largely competent but nothing to set the world alight. Rice's goal came from the one time a player went outside a fullback with a little pace, and Grealish's from the one time we found an incisive pass on the edge of the area.

Defence looked better organised with Guehi and Walker back. Not convinced by Trent on the left, but his free kick was very tidy.

Guehi made a difference as expected. TAA superb goal but is he really consistent enough against better teams? I have my doubts as he always has a bad error or two in him.
Grealish class player but will he get in when everyone available.
Foden didn't do a lot in time he was on. Kane becoming a shadow of former player unfortunately.
Gomes good although I'd like to see him more involved as he was in previous game for Eng.
Palmer pretty anonymous I thought.

Overall 6.5/10 in beating a team they were expected to. Conceding soft goal poor though.

Sounds like Carsley doesn't want the job full time*, so the FA really need to step it up a gear in finding a permanent replacement. But they are absolutely dragging their heels and being typically useless.

*Yesterday, he said : "This job deserves a world-class coach that has won trophies and been there and done it and I’m still on the path to doing that.”

Looks like being Tuchel, he's currently 1/2.

Trent should be playing RB and probably time to move on Walker. LB is a mess though.

Think Kane is probably better in a sub role at this point. Gordon, Jude, Saka and Watkins would probably be my front 4 with Gomes and Rice behind. Palmer and Foden off the bench

Think the FAs dream is still holding on for what Pep wants to do after this season. Which may mean Carsley holds it a while longer

GSC wrote:Trent should be playing RB and probably time to move on Walker. LB is a mess though.

Think Kane is probably better in a sub role at this point. Gordon, Jude, Saka and Watkins would probably be my front 4 with Gomes and Rice behind. Palmer and Foden off the bench

If Trent plays, he really has to be right back, but it needs a holding player who can cover back for him when he pushes up into the areas where his passing and crossing is useful. Gomes might have the nous to to that, similarly Mainoo, but it's something Kalvin Phillips used to do very well.

I've never been the biggest fan of Walker as a right back in a back 4 - he makes a lot of mistakes that his pace often gets him out of, but as he ages he must surely slow down a bit, and he is the sloppiest passer of the ball in the team.

I'm not convinced that Watkins is a long term upgrade on Kane, although he does bring a bit more pace and movement up front - not sure who IS the answer though. Similar to at the other end, where Pickford's not great but probably is as good as we have available currently.

Every tournament the British media, the British pundits claim that England are the favorites, that they should win, and that it is England's to lose. Personally I think they are just trying to gain clicks and to fill space.

It seems that only a big club manager will do: Jurgen Klopp, Pep Guardiola, Carlo Ancelotti. Not sure anyone else will satisfy them. Rumour has it that Jurgen Klopp is itching to get the German National Manager job currently held by Nagelsmann.

I'm not sure why you would expect the media to be pessimistic ahead of a major sporting event for them.

Itching for a club manager kinda misses the point about what international football is. There just isn't time to implement advanced tactics or complicated ideas. You get a small amount of time to get together a squad of players who aren't particularly arsed about playing pointless friendlies in the middle of the season.

Scaloni won the WC, the Spanish HC mostly coached some youth teams and some short spells in the lower leagues and had by far the most cohesive team at the euros.

Not overly fussed about Tuchel on that basis, not least that he'll probably run for the first big club job that comes up.

Pep Guardiola is a proud Catalonian. He supported the independent movement when the ruling Party of the Catalonian Provincial Government ran a referendum, received an overwhelming majority in favour of independence, and then were arrested and imprisoned by the Spanish Government. While they were imprisoned he wore a yellow ribbon. So I don't think that when Pep Guardiola decides to take on a new project he would take up the Spanish National Managers position. If he were to take up a National Managers job I think England may be a possibility.

It has been said that Jurgen Klopp is considering a National Manager position because he is partly burnt out by the intensity and never getting proper time off to spend with his family when he was a club manager.

GSC wrote:I'm not sure why you would expect the media to be pessimistic ahead of a major sporting event for them.

Itching for a club manager kinda misses the point about what international football is. There just isn't time to implement advanced tactics or complicated ideas. You get a small amount of time to get together a squad of players who aren't particularly arsed about playing pointless friendlies in the middle of the season.

Scaloni won the WC, the Spanish HC mostly coached some youth teams and some short spells in the lower leagues and had by far the most cohesive team at the euros.

Not overly fussed about Tuchel on that basis, not least that he'll probably run for the first big club job that comes up.

England have had plenty of managers who've come from successful club jobs, including, with Capello, probably the finest club team manager / coach of the era. It only worked to a variable level, in that I'd say Robson and Venebles were pretty successful but Capello and Erickson not really. I wholly agree with your point that managing thenational team requires a different skillset than being a club coach - Southgate did much of it well, in building the team spirit and getting mostly good results, but with a negative style on the pitch (particularly later in his reign) that many argued did no get the best out of a talented bunch of attacking players.

It would have been interesting to see what would have happened for England if they had appointed Clough instead of Greenwood in the mid 70s, or instead of Robby Bobson in 82/83. I'm not convinced that Clough would actually have been a successful international manager (although he would certainly have shaken up the FA)

The Football Association is in advanced talks with Thomas Tuchel over appointing him as the next England manager and it is understood that a deal could be put in place quickly.

Looks like Tuchel more and more. Now as short as 1/4.

That would be incredibly exciting. I didn't think it would happen due to a combination of him wanting a club job, and his salary demands being outside of the FA's reach.

Would be an extraordinary coup. To go from someone utterly clueless like Southgate, to one of the best coaches in the world and a proven winner in Tuchel, would be a fantastic transformation. Finally be able to get the best out of this wonderfully talented generation of England players, and not have to resort to Pickford launching long balls and 1970s football.

Some fair concerns about Tuchel's tendency to fall out with important people. A lot of those issues seem to originate from falling out over transfer dealings, something that can be avoided in the international game! And any players he doesn't get along with, he doesn't have to work with. Fantastic. The media could be a concern, however. They gave Southgate a very easy ride and cashed in on the bizarre love in, but doubtless it'll be back to muck-raking and going after Tuchel from day one.

The FA have a chance to do something wonderful. They've screwed up pretty much everything in the last fifty years, but now the equation is very simple: Get Tuchel and you get the World Cup. Fail to get Tuchel and you probably get Lampard and more misery.

Former Chelsea boss Thomas Tuchel has agreed to become the next England manager.

Superb.

Best appointment since Hoddle. England are now favourites for the World Cup.

Bobby Robson:......... (1982–1990) Best results: World Cup: 4th (1990), QF (1986)
Graham Taylor:........ (1990–1993) Best results: -
Terry Venables:........ (1994–1996) Best results: Euro SF (1996)
Glenn Hoddle:.......... (1996–1999) Best results: World Cup R16 (1998)
Kevin Keegan:.......... (1999–2000) Best results: -
Sven-G. Eriksson:..... (2001–2006) Best results: World Cup QF (2002), QF (2006), Euro QF (2004)
Steve McClaren:....... (2006–2007) Best results: -
Fabio Capello:.......... (2008–2012) Best results: World Cup R16 (2010)
Roy Hodgson:.......... (2012–2016) Best results: Euro QF (2012), R16 (2016)
Gareth Southgate:.... (2016–2024) Best results: World Cup 4th (2018), QF (2022), Euro 2nd (2020), 2nd (2024)
Thomas Tuchel:........ (2025 - 2026+):

Duty281 wrote:Former Chelsea boss Thomas Tuchel has agreed to become the next England manager.

Best appointment since Hoddle. England are now favourites for the World Cup.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

No name Bertie wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Former Chelsea boss Thomas Tuchel has agreed to become the next England manager.

Best appointment since Hoddle. England are now favourites for the World Cup.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

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Brilliant appointment but also a very funny appointment - when he ends up playing a back 5 and more defensive players than Southgate did.