Dubois Destroys Joshua

Surely the end for Joshua now?

Saudi Oil Money has helped to sort out the heavyweight division.   Fighters avoiding each other, fighters running their mouth off, fighters fighting once every 18 months, too much hype not enough fighting.   AJ can continue if he is motivated enough.   Let him fight Zhang or Fury or Wilder or Hygovic or Bakole next.

ps: The fifth round had similarities with the third round of the AJ vs Ruiz Jr first fight.   AJ had recovered and hit Daniel Dubois with an enormous right that had Dubois back peddling, and AJ charged forward getting careless and Dubois knocked AJ down and out with a counter hook as AJ attempted an uppercut with his right, keeping his left low and chin out.

I wanted to watch the fight but decided against purchasing, because I don’t want to be part of the system that condones The Saudi family. The fact is, that a country that used to be called “Arabia” is prefixed by a surname of the super-rich family.
Apparently, Tyson Fury looked as if he had seen a hundred million dollars disappear in front of his eyes….
A.J.’s not much better in his pursuit of humongous paydays. I’m really fed up of hearing how prizefights of Joshua or Fury or those two facing off together should net them a sum of money that would be equivalent of the annual gross domestic product of a country! It’s all spectacle and no skill with Joshua if his last six fights are anything to go by. Oh I’m sorry he beat Wallin…who was let’s face it a nobody.
Let us celebrate a new champion in DuBois- he may be lacking in the PR stakes but he listens to his coach and has improved exponentially . Joshua made amateur mistakes which made him look as if he was on the same knowledge level as that mma fighter he beat.
And hopefully DuBois will fight all-comers, fight more than once a year, and basically concentrate on his chosen profession which is not social media arguments about who has the most money or declaring himself the best heavyweight of all time on the back of mediocre opposition.
We can dream.

Eddie Hearn / AJ have a rematch clause. Hearn wants AJ to take it up. AJ needs to rest and think about it.

AJ on his loss said: I rolled the dice and came up short.

What does this mean? AJ went for it. He never pulled his shots. In the past he has been accused of being too gun shy.

Why AJ lost: from the get go AJ stuck his chin out. When pressurized he learnt back sticking his chin out rather than stepping back with chin down. People are asking what happened with AJ's defence? Why didn't his new wonder coach - Ben Davidson - drill this into AJ before the start. Why wasn't this corrected during the fight.

Some are saying once AJ got hit at the end of the first he was on wobbly legs. However AJ did recover, did refind his feet, but he kept leaving his chin out and hands down and kept getting caught.

Again in the fifth round he had recovered, caught Dubois with an enormous right that had Dubois back peddling, but went gung ho, ignoring his defence and got caught with a counter right flush - he walked right into it while trying to employ a long rang upper cut with his right - and wasn't able to get up in the allotted time and so was counted out.

If AJ can protect his chin, let his hands go, but not be reckless, then he has a good chance if there is an immediate rematch.

Derek Smalls wrote:I wanted to watch the fight but decided against purchasing, because I don’t want to be part of the system that condones The Saudi family. The fact is, that a country that used to be called “Arabia” is prefixed by a surname   of the super-rich family...

The bigger picture is that the Saudi Royal Family are super rich because ordinary people like you and I pay them when purchasing the oil and gas that is pumped out of the ground. This is indirect and is the result of the global economy, the energy economy and trade.

Now the Saudis could be spending their riches to buy more expensive cars, buy nuclear weapons and dirty bombs from the black economy, promoting wars of conquest in Africa, South East Asia etc, buying in expertise to develop a high tech economy et cetera. Some say they are doing all of this in addition to having plenty of change to buying up Sport around the world. Now a little of that money is going into boxing.

Now there is a saying: cut off ones nose to spite ones face, but the reality is the Saudis will continue to be super rich because of the global economy and the need to purchase primary resources that are found under the sand.

Joshua had Dubois in trouble in the 4th but went for the kill despite being hurt himself. He could have boxed his way out of that. But Joshua always kept the left too low and pawed too much with the jab.

No name Bertie wrote:... Why AJ lost: from the get go AJ stuck his chin out.   When pressurized he learnt back sticking his chin out rather than stepping back with chin down.   People are asking what happened with AJ's defence?   Why didn't his new wonder coach - Ben Davidson - drill this into AJ before the start.   Why wasn't this corrected during the fight...

Mochyn du wrote:Joshua ... could have boxed his way out of that.  But Joshua always kept the left too low ...

Just seen a very convincing argument with some comparison clips that puts the blame down to Ben Davison.

AJ is a sponge and very easy to coach except he is a bit of a robot in the ring and cannot adapt to changing circumstances well and doesn't have the brain  or the skill to adjust on the fly when something is going badly wrong.

When AJ was with Derrick James AJ held his guard up: when he threw his right he kept his left guarding his chin, when he threw his left he kept his right guarding his chin.   He was using his feet to adjust the range, back steps to avoid punches.  

With Ben Davison he kept his guard down low and was leaning away to evade punches but it didn't work against Daniel Dubois.   If you look at other Ben Davison fighters they do something similar - e.g. when Tyson Fury was with Ben Davison.   Worked for Fury but doesn't work for all fighters.

With Derrick James AJ seemed a bit ponderous and slow - that was because he was focused on getting his defence right.   With Ben Davison he seemed more fluid, letting his shots go, that was because he reduced his defence - focusing on leaning at the waist and throwing shots without a care to cover up to block a counter punch.   Throwing the right and keeping the left low allows a better right arm motion and more powerful punch - but it leaves one open to the counter.

No name Bertie wrote:Eddie Hearn / AJ have a rematch clause.

This is what seems to have irritated me the most

How on earth does a losing challenger have a rematch clause?!

Marky wrote:

No name Bertie wrote:Eddie Hearn / AJ have a rematch clause.

This is what seems to have irritated me the most

How on earth does a losing challenger have a rematch clause?!

The fact it was for a world title in the first place was far worse.

There's an article on the BBC saying this victory legitimises Dubois' claim as a world champion which is nonsense, he's a paper champion.

No name Bertie wrote:

Derek Smalls wrote:I wanted to watch the fight but decided against purchasing, because I don’t want to be part of the system that condones The Saudi family. The fact is, that a country that used to be called “Arabia” is prefixed by a surname   of the super-rich family...

The bigger picture is that the Saudi Royal Family are super rich because ordinary people like you and I pay them when purchasing the oil and gas that is pumped out of the ground.  This is indirect and is the result of the global economy, the energy economy and trade.

Now the Saudis could be spending their riches to buy more expensive cars, buy nuclear weapons and dirty bombs from the black economy, promoting wars of conquest in Africa, South East Asia etc, buying in expertise to develop a high tech economy et cetera.  Some say they are doing all of this in addition to having plenty of change to buying up Sport around the world.   Now a little of that money is going into boxing.

Now there is a saying: cut off ones nose to spite ones face, but the reality is the Saudis will continue to be super rich because of the global economy and the need to purchase primary resources that are found under the sand.

I'm not sure that I am cutting off my nose to spite my face! simply decided that I don't want to give money to these crooks. Some of my hard earned dosh I dare say goes to bad actors on the world stage. But I would rather not give my hard-earned if I know for sure that said funds are going to this vile family.
I'm also not sure why you would say that it's just the way of the global market- which is supposed to follow the rule of law, not to say rules AGAINST war when you earlier assert that they buy up means of mass destruction on the black market...

Joshua just didn't look up for it did he ????.....Worth 100 million and in with a live opponent and not Wallin or a novice....

Dubois was hungry and he performed very well......All the quitting stuff a distant memory...

I would like to see Dubois v Usyk 2..........Because Dubois is confident now and looks a more dangerous fighter....Not saying he would win but it would be a better fight.

As for AJ in cold light of day he really hasn't beaten a top fighter.....Like Fury his best win is a 40 year old at the end of his career...

There is a case to suggest Usyk is the only world class fighter at Heavy and Dubois with unbeaten Miller.....Hrgovic and now AJ is number 2.....

Certainly have Dubois number 2 in my list.....Now Wilder has been exposed.

Soul Requiem wrote:

Marky wrote:

No name Bertie wrote:Eddie Hearn / AJ have a rematch clause.

This is what seems to have irritated me the most

How on earth does a losing challenger have a rematch clause?!

The fact it was for a world title in the first place was far worse.

There's an article on the BBC saying this victory legitimises Dubois' claim as a world champion which is nonsense, he's a paper champion.

You know I have some sympathy with that fight being a "world title" fight. Firstly, the four belt era has been around a while and whilst I like Usyk who has continued the Eastern European tradition of bringing class to the division, with the added benefit of not winning turgid jab and grab affairs, the gaps between his fights are as long as the time it takes the earth to do a full orbit of the sun.

I think this business of one fight a year is partly to blame for the current situation. It doesn't seem fair that challengers have to wait so long for the champ to get in the ring again, especially as they so often have to engage in ridiculous but lucrative rematches with the guy they beat a year ago. I can't say I blame the IBF for breaking it up. I want my champions fighting three times a year or twice at the very least.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Joshua just didn't look up for it did he ????.....Worth 100 million and in with a live opponent and not Wallin or a novice....

Dubois was hungry and he performed very well......All the quitting stuff a distant memory...

I would like to see Dubois v Usyk 2..........Because Dubois is confident now and looks a more dangerous fighter....Not saying he would win but it would be a better fight.

As for AJ in cold light of day he really hasn't beaten a top fighter.....Like Fury his best win is a 40 year old at the end of his career...

There is a case to suggest Usyk is the only world class fighter at Heavy and Dubois with unbeaten Miller.....Hrgovic and now AJ is number 2.....

Certainly have Dubois number 2 in my list.....Now Wilder has been exposed.

I can't really disagree with any of that; you see it time and time again, a boxer makes, is set for life and just loses that real ambition to keep pushing themselves. AJ knows that there are still lucrative fights out there for him and win or lose there always will be.

You saw it with Amir Khan, was a spent force at world level after the Garcia knockout, still good enough to beat the fringe level guys to earn the big paydays but no longer capable of truly testing the very best.

Hard to say how much of it I'd he didn't look up for it, and how much of it is he didn't actually expect a challenge from DuBois. Worth remembering that Hrgovic was using DuBois' head as a speed bag for four rounds, and I genuinely think DuBois only got himself back into that fight because the ref decided he was gonna let some pretty egregious headbutts go. Before that, Usyk gave him a shutout which was finished off with a jab. Before that Kevin Lerena should have had a 1st round KO over him, and Lerena has a 40% KO percentage when he's mostly fought at cruiserweight. There was nothing in DuBois' pedigree that suggested he'd be able to eat at the big table, and I think that's the attitude AJ went with. I genuinely don't think I've ever seen him fight with a low guard, except I guess when he was putting Pulev away.

As a side note, DuBois had been stopped twice in the last second half of a fight, had never fought 12, and had pretty much been loading up on his punches from the opening bell. I'm still a bit surprised that Team AJ went into the fifth round thinking "Let's roll the dice", and not "Let's see if we can take it to deep waters and maybe mug him late".

I think once AJ lost to Usyk the second time, he knew he couldn't be the king of his generation, and he'd have to achieve greatness a different way. I suspect he'll hang around a few more years to try become only the fourth ever world champion. If he manages that, along with the fact that he's already top 10 in title defences, and the fact that he elevated British heavyweight boxing to mega stadiums, one million plus PPV buys, and near nine-figure pay days, he'll probably have his own little corner in the annals of boxing history.

I think if Dubois has the option to pick his next opponent while waiting for Fury/Usyk II, he should avenge his Joe Joyce defeat, I know Joyce's stock has dropped but he's one of Dubois' two defeats, and would still be a tough fight for him.

Marky wrote:I think if Dubois has the option to pick his next opponent while waiting for Fury/Usyk II, he should avenge his Joe Joyce defeat, I know Joyce's stock has dropped but he's one of Dubois' two defeats, and would still be a tough fight for him.

It's meaningless.....We can give a hypothetical win to Dubois over Joyce without him feasting on his carcass.

Zhang v Dubois six round slugfest for the IBF would be a great matchup while we wait for Usyk to give the World a present and finish off the ranting bore who doesn't care about legacy then he does....Who doesn't care about money and now money is everything...Maybe he can knock out his father too.

Usyk v Dubois/Zhang next year....AJ should retire.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Marky wrote:I think if Dubois has the option to pick his next opponent while waiting for Fury/Usyk II, he should avenge his Joe Joyce defeat, I know Joyce's stock has dropped but he's one of Dubois' two defeats, and would still be a tough fight for him.

It's meaningless.....We can give a hypothetical win to Dubois over Joyce without him feasting on his carcass.

Zhang v Dubois six round slugfest for the IBF would be a great matchup while we wait for Usyk to give the World a present and finish off the ranting bore who doesn't care about legacy then he does....Who doesn't care about money and now money is everything...Maybe he can knock out his father too.

Usyk v Dubois/Zhang next year....AJ should retire.

Fair point about Joyce, but I also think Joseph Parker has earned his way into contention too and did just beat Zhang.

Marky wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Marky wrote:I think if Dubois has the option to pick his next opponent while waiting for Fury/Usyk II, he should avenge his Joe Joyce defeat, I know Joyce's stock has dropped but he's one of Dubois' two defeats, and would still be a tough fight for him.

It's meaningless.....We can give a hypothetical win to Dubois over Joyce without him feasting on his carcass.

Zhang v Dubois six round slugfest for the IBF would be a great matchup while we wait for Usyk to give the World a present and finish off the ranting bore who doesn't care about legacy then he does....Who doesn't care about money and now money is everything...Maybe he can knock out his father too.

Usyk v Dubois/Zhang next year....AJ should retire.

Fair point about Joyce, but I also think Joseph Parker has earned his way into contention too and did just beat Zhang.

Parker is a stinker..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Marky wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Marky wrote:I think if Dubois has the option to pick his next opponent while waiting for Fury/Usyk II, he should avenge his Joe Joyce defeat, I know Joyce's stock has dropped but he's one of Dubois' two defeats, and would still be a tough fight for him.

It's meaningless.....We can give a hypothetical win to Dubois over Joyce without him feasting on his carcass.

Zhang v Dubois six round slugfest for the IBF would be a great matchup while we wait for Usyk to give the World a present and finish off the ranting bore who doesn't care about legacy then he does....Who doesn't care about money and now money is everything...Maybe he can knock out his father too.

Usyk v Dubois/Zhang next year....AJ should retire.

Fair point about Joyce, but I also think Joseph Parker has earned his way into contention too and did just beat Zhang.

Parker is a stinker..

I don't disagree But he beat Zhang last time out, so realistically he'd be ahead of Zhang for a fight with Dubois.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Marky wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Marky wrote:I think if Dubois has the option to pick his next opponent while waiting for Fury/Usyk II, he should avenge his Joe Joyce defeat, I know Joyce's stock has dropped but he's one of Dubois' two defeats, and would still be a tough fight for him.

It's meaningless.....We can give a hypothetical win to Dubois over Joyce without him feasting on his carcass.

Zhang v Dubois six round slugfest for the IBF would be a great matchup while we wait for Usyk to give the World a present and finish off the ranting bore who doesn't care about legacy then he does....Who doesn't care about money and now money is everything...Maybe he can knock out his father too.

Usyk v Dubois/Zhang next year....AJ should retire.

Fair point about Joyce, but I also think Joseph Parker has earned his way into contention too and did just beat Zhang.

Parker is a stinker..

One thing I notice about you is when you don’t like a boxer you really stick with it

I thought Parker conducted himself very well against Wilder and Zhang. He’s basic but he thrown a lot and has seemed to develop more snap in his punches over the years. I’d say Parker deserves the shot against Dubois rather than Zhang, who seems to think boxing well for 6 rounds then gassing out ought to be winning him fights and cries robbery when it doesn’t.