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Joe Marler retires (and sounds like he means it this time)

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formerly known as Sam
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Post by Rugby Fan Sun 03 Nov 2024, 11:02 am

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2024/11/03/joe-marler-england-retirement-haka-controversy/

England prop Joe Marler has announced his retirement from international rugby.

Marler won 95 caps for England since making his debut in 2012, and has also been at the heart of a number of controversies throughout his career including sparking a row over the haka ahead of Saturday’s match against the All Blacks.

Marler will continue to play for his club side Harlequins.

England head coach Steve Borthwick praised Marler’s contribution to English rugby: “Joe has been an outstanding servant to English rugby – a tough, uncompromising competitor on the field, and a genuine, one-of-a-kind personality off it.

“We’ll miss his humour, sense of fun, and the energy he brought to the squad. We’re grateful for all he’s given to England rugby, and though we won’t see him in an England jersey anymore, he’ll always be part of this team. Thank you, Joe.”

“Playing for England always felt like I was living in a dream bubble,” Marler said on Instagram.

“I kept waiting for it to pop and me to suddenly go back to being a gobby, overweight 16-year-old again. But you know when it’s time.”

He continued: “I can’t do what I used to do as well as I once could. I can’t keep talking about my family being my priority unless they actually are.

“I want to keep untarnished all these memories of my career, both good and bad. I don’t want to leave my house with my kids crying. I’m ready to make the change.”

His Tweet is here:

https://x.com/JoeMarler/status/1853022291803718116

and his video for England is here:

https://x.com/EnglandRugby/status/1853017177164480957

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun 03 Nov 2024, 11:07 am

Can't blame him for putting family first. Hopefully stepping away from the international stage helps home life.

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Post by Mr Bounce Sun 03 Nov 2024, 11:35 am

I have to say I am surprised he stayed on after the World Cup. But he's been a hell of a servant to English Rugby, and love him or hate him, he's always at the centre of attention. A proper character - there are less and less people like him in rugby these days.

I suppose that Bevan Rodd would normally be the next cab off the rank, but he's injured. Will they call anyone up, or will it be just Genge and Baxter?

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Post by Rugby Fan Sun 03 Nov 2024, 11:45 am

Mr Bounce wrote:I have to say I am surprised he stayed on after the World Cup.

I think he started enjoyed his experience again, particularly with his mate Dan Cole back in the squad. It was more surprising he went on tour to NZ, as that kind of commitment seemed to put most strain on his family life. In the end, the prospect of getting to a 100 caps might have tipped the balance, as he freely admitted.

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Post by mountain man Sun 03 Nov 2024, 11:55 am

Marler been a great player for England but end of day he's a professional rugby player so with respect it's how he earns his living so all this "sacrificing family life" stuff doesn't really wash with me. If he cannot commit 100% to the team he shouldn't be there. Might seem a bit harsh but the honour (and money don't forget) in playing for your country especially in a short playing career should be enough to make it worthwhile.

I see someone disagrees but unwilling to say why. For context I used to work in oil industry and was away 6months of the year from my family, I did this for 15 years. It was very tough but needed to earn money and it was very good money and tax free. Nowhere near money the England players were on but it was good. I hated being away but that was my job. No-one felt sorry for me and I didn't expect it.
And I was a lot older than 34 when I gave it up!

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Post by Poorfour Sun 03 Nov 2024, 12:20 pm

Given that Marler is on record as having withdrawn from England squads under Eddie Jones because he didn't think he could give 100%< those words ring pretty hollow, mm. Fair play to you for toughing it out on the rigs, but not everyone can - or should - pu themselves through that.

Marler is one of very few players who has been honest with coaches and open with the public about his motivation and mental health, and he deserves credit for that instead of criticism. I have heard several rugby players talk at events about the toll that rugby can take on a player. More than one successful player described crying in their cars before training, trying to find the willpower to drag themselves into work.

Just because you get paid for doing something doesn't mean you should be expected to sacrifice your family life or mental health for it. A lot of us see professional sport as a dream job and imagine we would love every minute, but that isn't reflective of what the players go through. There are huge ups, but also some very deep downs.

Marler's response is not typical, but I think we should be glad that someone is prepared to break the macho [redacted}] facade that surrounds elite sport
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Post by Geordie Sun 03 Nov 2024, 3:53 pm

PF what is the mental health issues Marler has. Is it Anxiety or something else.

I've only ever heard he has them...but what?

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Post by Poorfour Sun 03 Nov 2024, 4:50 pm

Geordie wrote:PF what is the mental health issues Marler has. Is it Anxiety or something else.

I've only ever heard he has them...but what?

Mostly anger related - if he has had a clinical diagnosis I don’t remember him mentioning it, but in his autobiography he talks outbursts that scared his wife, and seeking therapy to manage it. He’s also very open about hating being away from his family for long periods.

He made a documentary about mental health for Sky called

Big Boys Don’t Cry
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Post by Geordie Sun 03 Nov 2024, 5:00 pm

Ah ok thanks, I'll watch that. My wife has Extreme level anxiety issues so I'm very aware how debilitating these issues can be...and how they severely effect your every day life

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Post by Rugby Fan Sun 03 Nov 2024, 11:43 pm

Oliver Brown, the chief sports writer at the Telegraph, has a piece about Joe Marler with this headline:
Joe Marler spent his career turning the ultimate team sport into a one-man show

Lukewarm tributes to the retiring prop suggest that England may enjoy a permanent break from the country’s incorrigible rogue

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2024/11/03/joe-marler-spent-career-turning-team-sport-one-man-show/

That's a fairly damning accusation. It doesn't really represent what Brown goes on to write, as he spends time recognizing his talent and troubles. Still, he does seem to think England will be the glad to see the back of Marler.

The comments thread to the article is full of people taking Brown to task for writing such a cheap attack. There are probably quite a few in the Telegraph audience who never liked Joe Marler's schtick but I'd imagine even they think a chief sports writer should think twice about putting that out in response to a retirement announcement.

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Post by mountain man Mon 04 Nov 2024, 7:54 am

I think it's probably reasonable that coaches and fellow players who are 100% committed to a team would want everyone to be.
Possibly one or two might not want someone annoying opposition pre match as well.

I've downvoted my comment just to start things off, save you all a bit of time.

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Post by Poorfour Mon 04 Nov 2024, 9:06 am

mountain man wrote:I think it's probably reasonable that coaches and fellow players who are 100% committed to a team would want everyone to be.
Possibly one or two might not want someone annoying opposition pre match as well.

I've downvoted my comment just to start things off, save you all a bit of time.

I think you're looking at this the wrong way round. Marler has only turned up to England when he is 100% committed; when he doesn't think he can give 100%, he has withdrawn.

How many other players have done that? The only example I know of for certain, apart from retirements, is that Mike Catt told Clive Woodward he wasn't fit enough to start the RWC Final, but could give 20 minutes from the bench.

How many other players have turned up to camp and turned out for their country when they knew that mentally they weren't in the right place, for fear of being dropped? How many players have continued to play when they know they're past their best but the coach hasn't had the stones to drop them?

As for annoying the opposition, Marler's always been a wind up merchant. Most props are - he just does it more publicly than most, and I think once he got a reputation for it the authorities and tv coverage were looking out for him. I don't think it made a difference to the game - and I am half inclined to believe that it was a deliberate tactic to draw attention away from the squad's preparations. Eddie Jones and Warren Gatland aren't above such tactics, and Marler's worked with both of them over the years...

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Post by Rugby Fan Tue 05 Nov 2024, 1:50 am

Cole also thinks Marler had an eye on 100 caps, which he could have reached by playing the two NZ tests, and a full Autumn calendar. Marler himself said on a podcast that 100 might be nice. However, his foot injury meant he missed a cap in NZ, and would have required committing to another Six Nations, along with the Autumn.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2024/11/04/dan-cole-missing-joe-marler-room-mate-england-retirement/

Dan Cole made light of the international retirement of his old mate Joe Marler by revealing that he told the now former England prop: “Who the f--- am I going to room with, Joe? You’ve stitched me up here.”

Marler announced on Sunday that he had retired from Test rugby after winning 95 caps between 2012 and 2024. Discussing life in the England camp without Marler, Cole noted the place was “quieter”, joking: “I talk to one less person, so I talk to no one.” George Ford is now filling the Marler-shaped void as Cole’s new room-mate.

Cole continued: “For selfish reasons you miss him, as he’s a good friend, but at the same time the team continues to move forward. That’s the thing with rugby, one of the weird or great things about it, that no matter the adversity you have you still turn up, train and move forward. He has gone out on his own terms, so is alive, well and healthy. He’s still my friend, but he’s not here.”

Cole added that Marler informed him he was finished with Test rugby after arriving into camp on the Sunday before England began their week of preparing to face New Zealand, with Marler’s comments about the haka after leaving camp dominating the build-up to a 24-22 win for the All Blacks.

Asked whether he had seen Marler’s decision coming, Cole, 37, replied: “Did I think he would go last Sunday? No. But did I think we’re both nearer the end than we are at the beginning, that it was coming at some point, yes.

I thought part of him wanted 100 caps, but unfortunately, he hurt his foot in the first New Zealand Test, so that would have meant extending on. You just have an inclination, but you have no control over what he thinks or does.”

To Cole’s point about the team constantly evolving, Marler’s replacement in camp this week has been the highly-rated Sale prop Asher Opoku-Fordjour, 20, who has played tighthead for England Under-20s but is used as a loosehead by his club.

Nice comment on the challenge of playing both sides

Cole provided a vivid response when asked to explain the difficulties prop face in switching from one side of the scrum to the other, a versatility which is back in fashion with Andrew Porter, Thomas du Toit and Trevor Nyakane all swapping sides at the top level.

“It would be like wiping your a--- with your left hand,” Cole said. “As a tighthead you’re binding with your left shoulder in with the hooker, binding with your right side, your left inside foot is back, your right foot moves when you bind. Whereas loosehead it’s totally the other way round.”

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