Marler Banned

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/35967459

Who did what now?

Been thinking all day, I hope somebody does a new Marler thread. I'll sleep well tonight.

This is the first and only time I'll talk about Joe Marler. Here's what I think, in condensed form:

I don't think Joe Marler is any more of a racist than you or me. What he said is demonstrably racist. Gypsies and travellers are a distinct ethnic group, with heritage, traditions, and culture, which Joe Marler sought to mock. It doesn't matter if Samson Lee wasn't offended - Marler is a professional sportsman playing for his country against another country. What he says and does reflects on those he represents.

It has been said umpteen times that 'these things get said all the time', and 'it's just banter'. I think that's our problem - we are so busy telling ourselves that we're not racist because we 'have friends who are black', that we ignore the myriad things we do that still are racist.

So while I agree with the level of punishment Joe Marler has received, I won't castigate him. If we're honest, a lot of us are just as racist as he is - he just got caught.

Fair decision, and a punishment that fits the crime. Not disproportionate but not a whitewash either. Only frustrating thing is if the Six Nations committee had imposed this kind of sanction to begin with we would have all been spared weeks of this dragging on...

He'd only have got banned for one England game too, most likely. Really if World Rugby find that Six Nations blokeys should've taken action, they should fine them instead of Marler for incompetence.

Cool, now that is settled, on we go to await the next overblown drama!

IanBru wrote:This is the first and only time I'll talk about Joe Marler. Here's what I think, in condensed form:

I don't think Joe Marler is any more of a racist than you or me. What he said is demonstrably racist. Gypsies and travellers are a distinct ethnic group, with heritage, traditions, and culture, which Joe Marler sought to mock. It doesn't matter if Samson Lee wasn't offended - Marler is a professional sportsman playing for his country against another country. What he says and does reflects on those he represents.

It has been said umpteen times that 'these things get said all the time', and 'it's just banter'. I think that's our problem - we are so busy telling ourselves that we're not racist because we 'have friends who are black', that we ignore the myriad things we do that still are racist.

So while I agree with the level of punishment Joe Marler has received, I won't castigate him. If we're honest, a lot of us are just as racist as he is - he just got caught.

Marler got what he deserved as there is no debate that what he said was wrong. But i also feel sorry for him because the whole process was a mess.

Firstly the 6 Nations should of imposed a ban, secondly there was no reason this hearing from world rugby should taken place this late. It should of been done the week after at the most.

nathan wrote:Marler got what he deserved as there is no debate that what he said was wrong. But i also feel sorry for him because the whole process was a mess.

Firstly the 6 Nations should of imposed a ban, secondly there was no reason this hearing from world rugby should taken place this late. It should of been done the week after at the most.

Yep...

At last: a sensible outcome and we can all finally move on. The pity is that by this issue having being dragged out in this way:
1/ Marler risks being viewed not as someone who said a bang out of order thing in the heat of the moment - which he acknowledges - but as the kind of person/offender he isn't;
2/ the punishment did not hit him when and where it really should, and where it would have hurt him most - ie being banned from the GS decider in Paris; and
3/ as a result, the punishment will not match the crime - either he will miss two club games when his club has nothing to do with it, or he will miss two England games on the Oz Tour.

This mistake from Marler has become a farce. It's what happens when people who lack judgment end up in positions of authority. 6N's Rugby were slow and wrong and lacked the competence to deal with this swiftly and appropriately. Had they done so - we all would have forgotten about this by now.

He should refuse to pay the fine as the Six nations panel cleared him of any wrong doing. Take them to court Joe.

TightHEAD wrote:He should refuse to pay the fine as the Six nations panel cleared him of any wrong doing. Take them to court Joe.

No they didn't.

Is it ok to kick a player in the head when he's on the ground? Marler is a lunatic.

It was just a bit of niggle, no way in a million years anyone was going to get injured. Stupid and EJ should drop him for the summer tour, but anyone pretending he 'kicked someone in the head' needs to get a grip, it was a little tap on the shin.

He had a great game, shame he has this daft streak, he'll be a better player if he sorts it out.

Yeah of course it would have done nothing but tickle the player on the ground. That's not really the point.

ebop wrote:Yeah of course it would have done nothing but tickle the player on the ground. That's not really the point.

The point being to find the witch and burn him of course

Marler is sure under the spot light lately.

He has been find, he has been banned ( paid his debt ) and now should be able to get on with it and not keep being punished all the time.

lostinwales wrote:

ebop wrote:Yeah of course it would have done nothing but tickle the player on the ground. That's not really the point.

The point being to find the witch and burn him of course

Not at all, burning him at the stake would be excessive. Just give him another spell on the sideline for kicking a player in the head.

lostinwales wrote:

ebop wrote:Yeah of course it would have done nothing but tickle the player on the ground. That's not really the point.

The point being to find the witch and burn him of course

I wouldn't say a few extra posts on the man constitutes a witch hunt. It's not like an entirely separate thread has been started over the latest incident (please nobody get any ideas!)

All I'll say about Marler is that the more controversial or borderline incidents he gets caught up in the more he'll risk suffering from future scrutiny i.e. Dylan Hartley. Many people would eventually come to think it's more than mere coincidence if he's prominently and repeatedly involved in off-the-ball situations.

Not trying to demonise Marler in any way or compare his disciplinary record to Hartley's at this point. Just think those are the risks in the extreme and if he gets cited in his first game back (remains to be seen) it doesn't exactly reflect beautifully.

Various clips (some blydi adverts )

http://www.worldrugbyvids.com/index.php/2016/04/22/joe-marler-kicks-heguy-in-face/

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/79255381/england-prop-joe-marlers-return-from-suspension-marred-by-apparent-head-kick

http://sport.bt.com/video/madness-marler-kicks-grenoble-hooker-in-the-head-91364053618364

majesticimperialman wrote:Marler is sure under the spot light lately.

He has been find, he has been banned ( paid his debt ) and now should be able to get on with it and not keep being punished all the time.

I should've just stopped reading when you decided to spell fined like that, or maybe when you did your unnecessary brackets thing again . So you think just because he has been fined and banned for one thing, he should have carte blanche for the rest of his career? I am sure you don't, but it's hard to decipher quite what you mean.

RiscaGame wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Marler is sure under the spot light lately.

He has been find, he has been banned ( paid his debt ) and now should be able to get on with it and not keep being punished all the time.

I should've just stopped reading when you decided to spell fined like that, or maybe when you did your unnecessary brackets thing again . So you think just because he has been fined and banned for one thing, he should have carte blanche for the rest of his career? I am sure you don't, but it's hard to decipher quite what you mean.

NO. I do not. What i am saying is this story is done with.

If he does something else, then ok go on about it.

But the thing with Samson Lee is done with and over. stop going on about it.

majesticimperialman wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Marler is sure under the spot light lately.

He has been find, he has been banned ( paid his debt ) and now should be able to get on with it and not keep being punished all the time.

I should've just stopped reading when you decided to spell fined like that, or maybe when you did your unnecessary brackets thing again . So you think just because he has been fined and banned for one thing, he should have carte blanche for the rest of his career? I am sure you don't, but it's hard to decipher quite what you mean.

NO. I do not. What i am saying is this story is done with.

If he does something else, then ok go on about it.

But the thing with Samson Lee is done with and over. stop going on about it.

Ironically you're the only one still talking about Lee. Other recent comments were about Marler shinning a downed Grenoble player in the face in his first game back.

Marler can't deliberately kick someone in the head and not get a ban. While there was never going to be major damage physical inflicted, it is exactly the sort of 'off the ball' wind up incident that the game could do without.

The Citing commission have to take into account a player's disciplinary record because they are there to adjudicate on... er... discipline. Having just been banned Marler shows he hasn't learned any disciplinary lessons, so he can expect the tariff to keep rising until he does.

If a lad screws up three times he should be let just get on with it.  A guy who screws up too many times in quick succession is obviously un-trainable, feral, and beyond the pale.  Such a player should be exempt from rules.  Let the man play his game.

yes he shouldnt have done it but if mcintyre's full blooded kick on itoje only merits a yellow than there is no way this is worse.

consistency people.

Thought the Farrell "tackle" deserved a straight red imo and the Marler nudge was quite amusing. Even the Grenoble bloke laughed.

O'Shea has said it wasn't a boot but a shin, and shouldn't be cited as in his opinion it wasn't worthy of a red. So that is the end of it, surely?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:O'Shea has said it wasn't a boot but a shin, and shouldn't be cited as in his opinion it wasn't worthy of a red.  So that is the end of it, surely?

Dunno but the bloke he shinned ever so slightly is a Frenchman, so it's probably ok as nobody will make fuss.

quinsforever wrote:yes he shouldnt have done it but if mcintyre's full blooded kick on itoje only merits a yellow than there is no way this is worse.

consistency people.

McIntyre should have seen red, despite the provocation from Itoje (who should have seen yellow).

Both acts were intentional and ill disciplined and therefore need to be judged.

Bit torn on this, neither was a full blooded kick a yellow for each was probably the answer for me.

Cardiff Dave Robson was falling down. Deserved YC for Farrell but no more.

The Great Aukster yellow for holding onto someone's foot - bonkers....

Thought Poite made the correct call then - would have been penalty against Itoje for holding on but then Mcinityre kicks him - YC for Mcintyre. I see it as Mcintyre getting his deserved comeuppance anyhow as Mcintyre got away with taking out Goode.

If Mcintyre kept his cool then Itoje would have been punished.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2016/04/24/ban-could-see-joe-marler-miss-england-tour/

"Joe Marler is to discover on Monday if he is to be cited "

"Wasps prop Simon McIntyre is also likely to be cited for an incident involved Saracens lock Maro Itoje, during which he received a yellow card for kicking out at the England player at the back of a ruck."

Cardiff Dave wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:O'Shea has said it wasn't a boot but a shin, and shouldn't be cited as in his opinion it wasn't worthy of a red.  So that is the end of it, surely?

Dunno but the bloke he shinned ever so slightly is a Frenchman, so it's probably ok as nobody will make fuss.

I can't believe you would take that attitude just because he was French. That is what is wrong with this sport. People can go around saying it is acceptable to kick someone based on the country they are from/play in. If Marler had kicked an Englishman there would have been an uproar calling for him to be banned for months etc etc

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:O'Shea has said it wasn't a boot but a shin, and shouldn't be cited as in his opinion it wasn't worthy of a red.  So that is the end of it, surely?

Dunno but the bloke he shinned ever so slightly is a Frenchman, so it's probably ok as nobody will make fuss.

I can't believe you would take that attitude just because he was French.  That is what is wrong with this sport.  People can go around saying it is acceptable to kick someone based on the country they are from/play in.  If Marler had kicked an Englishman there would have been an uproar calling for him to be banned for months etc etc

Where-as if Marler had kicked a Wales player, they would all want the Wales player banned .

mikey_dragon wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:O'Shea has said it wasn't a boot but a shin, and shouldn't be cited as in his opinion it wasn't worthy of a red.  So that is the end of it, surely?

Dunno but the bloke he shinned ever so slightly is a Frenchman, so it's probably ok as nobody will make fuss.

I can't believe you would take that attitude just because he was French.  That is what is wrong with this sport.  People can go around saying it is acceptable to kick someone based on the country they are from/play in.  If Marler had kicked an Englishman there would have been an uproar calling for him to be banned for months etc etc

Where-as if Marler had kicked a Wales player, they would all want the Wales player banned .

People do get very upset about headbutts you know!

They also get upset about players jumping in mid-air and proceeding to dive head first into the ground (see the aftermath of Russell's illegal challenge on Biggar, 2015).

Well, Marler's been cited, along with Farrell.

Hope he misses the summer tour and gets the message before he ends up costing us a game or injuring someone.

Wasps prop Simon McIntyre has also been cited for allegedly kicking Sarries lock Maro Itoje.

mid_gen wrote:Well, Marler's been cited, along with Farrell.

Hope he misses the summer tour and gets the message before he ends up costing us a game or injuring someone.

mid gen who? Marler or Farrell? Think both are a liability, need to sort themselves out.

Farrell has got away with poor discipline before, looks like that's not going to happen anymore.

Good.

Marler. I'm a Quins fan and think he's a great player but he doesn't seem to be getting the message. Decent length ban and losing the England shirt would do him some good you hope.

He's proved his quality as a player anyway, won't hurt to let some other players have a run in the shirt.

beshocked wrote:Cardiff Dave Robson was falling down. Deserved YC for Farrell but no more.

Yeah, but it seems Farrell didn't notice and was already charging in with his head down and not looking from a fair few yards away. Reckless and dangerous for me. The end result sort of proves it really I would've thought.

The Shinning starring Joe Marler.
Wonder what the ending will be this time around.

mikey_dragon wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:O'Shea has said it wasn't a boot but a shin, and shouldn't be cited as in his opinion it wasn't worthy of a red.  So that is the end of it, surely?

Dunno but the bloke he shinned ever so slightly is a Frenchman, so it's probably ok as nobody will make fuss.

I can't believe you would take that attitude just because he was French.  That is what is wrong with this sport.  People can go around saying it is acceptable to kick someone based on the country they are from/play in.  If Marler had kicked an Englishman there would have been an uproar calling for him to be banned for months etc etc

Where-as if Marler had kicked a Wales player, they would all want the Wales player banned .

It's ok to kick a Turk though mun, don't forget.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:O'Shea has said it wasn't a boot but a shin, and shouldn't be cited as in his opinion it wasn't worthy of a red.  So that is the end of it, surely?

What the hell would an Italian coach know about any of this? Ten years behind the rest of us.

beshocked wrote:The Great Aukster yellow for holding onto someone's foot - bonkers....

Thought Poite made the correct call then - would have been penalty against Itoje for holding on but then Mcinityre kicks him - YC for Mcintyre. I see it as Mcintyre getting his deserved comeuppance anyhow as Mcintyre got away with taking out Goode.

If Mcintyre kept his cool then Itoje would have been punished.

What's bonkers is that Itoje can risk a penalty if an official happens to catch him, but gain the reward of getting an opponent sent off if they react - as McIntyre did. Punishing only the player who retaliates and letting the instigator off scot free sends the message that cheating works.

The Great Aukster wrote:

beshocked wrote:The Great Aukster yellow for holding onto someone's foot - bonkers....

Thought Poite made the correct call then - would have been penalty against Itoje for holding on but then Mcinityre kicks him - YC for Mcintyre. I see it as Mcintyre getting his deserved comeuppance anyhow as Mcintyre got away with taking out Goode.

If Mcintyre kept his cool then Itoje would have been punished.

What's bonkers is that Itoje can risk a penalty if an official happens to catch him, but gain the reward of getting an opponent sent off if they react - as McIntyre did. Punishing only the player who retaliates and letting the instigator off scot free sends the message that cheating works.

Agreed - it was a very cynical professional foul.

The great aukster the "cheating" as you call it only worked because Mcintyre reacted. Mcintyre should have kept his cool.

If he did I expect it would have been a Wasps penalty.

Not sure the instigator got off scot free, he got kicked in the head.

I got to say I haven't seen Irish fans complaining when Scottish player got a decisive YC in the 6 nations after Sexton was cheating and milked the incident.

Itoje didn't react to the boot, he doesn't lose his cool. If he did I expect he would have been YCed.

Compare Farrell and Ashton's attitude to Itoje's.

It was simply an incident when player X did something that should be penalised but player Y did something worse which made the initial offense be trivial in comparison.

Holding someone's foot isn't comparable to kicking someone in the head.