Is Adam Booth really a 'Genius'?

Or is he just overhyped by Sky?

Some of the best fighters have been defensive. Mayweather obviously being the main one, and I'm a big Mayweather fan, so I'm not saying being a defensive boxer is a bad thing, but it seems to me, in the big fights, Booth just sends his fighters out being ultra defensive, and on the back of this has got a reputation as being a master tactician.

Now, I don't have as much knowledge on boxing as Booth, course I don't, but I reckon 90% of people would have sent Haye out to use his speed, stay out of range and nick a decision against Valuev. Your not going to knock him out, he's slower than a cart horse, but if he lands a big shot on your fighter that's not got the greatest chin, your fighter's gonna hit the canvas, does it really take a 'genius' to work out you hit him and move. Haye fought a great fight against Valuev, but I don't think there was any great deal of genius to it.

As for DeGale v Groves, ultra defensive again, Groves didn't take a forward step all night, and in my opinion actually lost the fight by a round. But Booth is once again hailed as a genius by winning a fight that most people had JDG winning, really?

I'll give him credit if he's found a way to get past Klitschko's jab, jab, grab and has found a way to KO Klitschko.......... What do others think though, Booth actually is a genius, or is he actually a little bit overated?

Dunno about a genius, but I do think he's smarter than his outward persona makes him look. He just looks very smug all the time, although after Groves and if Haye wins on Saturday that'll be largely justified.

I don't think the game plan is to be ultra defensive, it just depends on the opponent. There was no point in Haye standing in front of Valuev and trading as that is a lot of man to try and knock out. I think some people get a little over excited about him rocking the giant in the last round but I think that more to do with balance and tiredness as Haye made Valuev move more than he ever had to.

I agree with your assessment of the Degale/Groves fight and personally think James failed to perform rather than George putting on a clinic in skilled boxing. Just a very close fight and hard to score.

As for Booth, I actually rate him highly. The one of the things that Booth brings to a corner and training camps is control. These days a lot of fighters treat their trainers as nothing more than an employee (which in reality is what they are) but there are a few trainers who have a relationship with a fighter that once training camp starts, what the trainer says goes. This also continues in to the fight where Booth for me also demonstrates calm control, whether his fighter has been floored or is on the point of a KO victory.

But one thing has to be taken into consideration with all trainers and that is the talent they have to work with (like Enzo and his son Joe Calzaghe) and Haye is a very good fighter.

No he's not........Neither is futch, Dundee or any other top trainer...

not that Booth belongs there...

Degale could've justifiably have beaten Groves..

Booth has a VERY good eye for mistakes made by other fighters and understands strengths and weaknesses of the opposition. He has a good analytical approach to fights and is a calming figure that gives good advice in the corner.

A genius? Not so sure, but a very good coach who has led his 2 fighters to victories by sticking to a solid gameplan.

Tactically... Booth is sound.

Correction to the OP, most people certainly did not have Degale winning, regardless of the bs that Warren spouts.

I think the great thing about Booth is he seems very meticulous in his training, and he isn't afraid to be a bit different in his methods to prepare his fighter (the goth boots springing to mind!). Master tactician may be a bit strong but I think he's proving himself to be a very good trainer all the same.

How the hell do you know what most people thought????

For example the general consensus on here was it was a close fight, with many stating they felt Groves was worthy of the decision. Across other forums opinion is at worst split, again with many stating they felt Groves was just about a worthy winner.

So for the OP to state that most people had DeGale winning, I felt that was incorrect. You'll note if you read what I wrote that I disagreed with that statement, I didn't state it was the opposite either.

What I'm saying is thousands and thousands watched the fight....and a few hundred go on forums...

So no one knows for sure how many thought Degale won...

So for you to say most didn't is exactly the peeing in the wind you blame the OP of....

Truss, taking a fairly representative cross-section isn't unusual.

Then he shouldn't take a pop at the OP as his cross section may be different..

Then perhaps I've worded it imperfectly, but the point was simply to show that we can't correctly make a statement like that. Though considering the available primary evidence (forums) it's quite obvious as to why I leant towards his point being wrong.

How was I taking a pop? I was expressing disagreement. Perhaps it's you Truss who can't disagree without taking a pop?

Pop is Roxbury slang for disagreement

Polite disagreement then! I'm afraid I'm off to play tennis, else I stay longer to discuss whatever subject it is we've slipped into. Wimbledon week and all that. Ciao.

He's no genius, he's a bit of a tool, but i think he's proved he's better than people first thought.

I can't believe he was held in such high esteem after the degale fight. The plan was hardly a raging success, I don't think Groves took the initiative all night, there was a moment in the early middle rounds where Degale stopped punching and just stood in front of him waiting for him to throw, groves just watched him, crowd restless, degale carries on as before, I swear if I was degales trainer I'd have told him to just out land him for the first 30 seconds and then just stand there till you hear the bell. Boring stuff groves, I heard he was ment to be exciting!

TechInept wrote:I can't believe he was held in such high esteem after the degale fight. The plan was hardly a raging success, I don't think Groves took the initiative all night, there was a moment in the early middle rounds where Degale stopped punching and just stood in front of him waiting for him to throw, groves just watched him, crowd restless, degale carries on as before, I swear if I was degales trainer I'd have told him to just out land him for the first 30 seconds and then just stand there till you hear the bell. Boring stuff groves, I heard he was ment to be exciting!

The point is that the concensus prior to the fight was that Groves would swarm forward aggressively and DeGale would comfortably outbox him on the back foot...This is George's normal style and would have resulted in a wide UD for DeGale...as it happened, George boxed on the back foot..Degale was not able to deal with this..therefore the tactics were successful.

I agree it was a success in the respect that it got the win, not that he pulled out a master plan that degale "couldn't deal with". That implies a bigger margin of victory. For example did you watch the Felix sturm fight this weekend? his tactics were 'successful' in the same way as groves were. "barely".

I think the pre fight expectancy issue you raised is an interesting one, groves was better than expected and degale worse, that may have swayed the judges and fans as to who really won the fight.

It would seem that he brings something different to the table, for example, he asked Groves to change style without proper experience of performing that style in match conditions, and it was enough to get a decision with the judges (the people who mattered).

He seems calm in the corner and communicates well - don't get me wrong, their is little more entertaining than Enzo effing and blinding between rounds, but Booth's style is very efficient and seems to work well.

He managed to get David Haye a heavy weight title belt, and a shot at the unification (at a 2nd weight) in well under 30 fights, which means that he is serving Haye well (in terms of the ratio of success to loss of brain cells).

I'm impressed ... 'genius' is a very strong word though.

I think genius might be a bit strong but I do like him as a trainer. What was good about the Groves fight is that for me Groves is a less talented fighter than Degale but on the night he got the decision. He was able to do this because he stuck to a game plan which was totally out of character for him in the biggest fight of his life and his opponent didn't have a good enough response to it. If Booth was in Degale's corner for that fight I think he would have won it.

His tactics for the degale fight were spot on. He knew degale wouldve trained for an aggressive come forward groves, and that degale is more comfortable fighting on the back foot. Fighting defensively confused degale and took his gameplan away. Degale was obliged to hold ring centre and be the aggressor, but couldn't really find a way to unlock groves as he hadn't prepared in this way, this could be seen by the periods in the fight where degale seemed puzzled and didn't press the action enough, whereas groves stuck religiously to his plan which gave him the confidence to throw more leather - because he knew what he was doing and degale didn't.

Wouldn't say booth is a genius, but he's very astute and a good tactician. Haye is also a very good fighter and a smart guy himself which helps, but I like booth.

Have to agree with the comments regarding the degale fight in that despite being negative tactically what Booth chose was spot on for Groves to get the win and thats all that counts.

I know he appears smug but everytime so far he has proved to be correct. The confidence he was showing at the presser is making me think that they must have a great plan.

trottb wrote:I know he appears smug but everytime so far he has proved to be correct. The confidence he was showing at the presser is making me think that they must have a great plan.

In the words of mike tyson, everyone has a gameplan until they get hit...

SBS 1 Me 0

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:

trottb wrote:I know he appears smug but everytime so far he has proved to be correct. The confidence he was showing at the presser is making me think that they must have a great plan.

In the words of mike tyson, everyone has a gameplan until they get hit...

Works both ways though, and I'm hoping the difference will be that Haye knows how to react, whereas Wlad when hit looks like someone's waving a bit of poo on a stick under his nose.

I still find him really, really creepy

rowley wrote:I still find him really, really creepy

Wlad?

BALTIMORA wrote:

rowley wrote:I still find him really, really creepy

Wlad?

Booth, looks smug and a little oily, Wlad on the other hand I find perfectly charming.

Wlad I find a little wooden, like he has to think to hard about what he's gonna say at pressers and the like. Booth, I agree is an incredibly smug-looking man, although it seems he's slowly having more and more to look smug about, and I hope that continues at least past this weekend!

BALTIMORA wrote:

rowley wrote:I still find him really, really creepy

Wlad?

Truss.

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:

rowley wrote:I still find him really, really creepy

Wlad?

Truss.

Laughed out loud just then.

BALTIMORA wrote:Wlad I find a little wooden, like he has to think to hard about what he's gonna say at pressers and the like. Booth, I agree is an incredibly smug-looking man, although it seems he's slowly having more and more to look smug about, and I hope that continues at least past this weekend!

Balti probably worth bearing in mind he answers a lot of questions at pressers in English, what with it not being his first language is probably inevitable it takes him a little longer. Have to cut him a bit of slack, we have people on here who grapple with the language far worse than Wlad and English is allegedly their first language.

People seem to forget very quickly as to how the majority of people clearly thought that Degale was gonna win that fight though. Booth did everything right and put Groves in with the best possible chance of winning same with Haye can't argue with that. As a trainer what more can you do?
Genuis may be a stretch too far he's done it a few times but he clearly knows his stuff ad lets not forget he's a relatively young guy still plenty more years to prove himself. Maximising fighters potential and getting the best out of a fighters style and making them more versatile is what he's done already give him a few more years before we start with the G word though...

Bump.

Is Booth a Genius?

No.
Unless anyone knows his IQ.

Tactically Astute?

Certainly.

Not sure If he is a genius..but he'll surely love being debated as one..

I'll bet money with his personality that after the fight tonight he'll be scouting around boards like this to see what is being written about him..

Found this quite insightful interview with Booth to be rather interesting. Shoes a certain depth to the guy:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/boxing/article-2010031/David-Hayes-trainer-Adam-Booth-plans-retire.html

BALTIMORA wrote:Found this quite insightful interview with Booth to be rather interesting. Shoes a certain depth to the guy:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/boxing/article-2010031/David-Hayes-trainer-Adam-Booth-plans-retire.html

Interesting, at first i thought he was going to ditch George Groves and retire with Haye, but says he will see it out with Groves but that's it. I like how nobody is allowed in to view the training sessions, needs to be done if your always looking to win fights by smart tactics.

Its the creepy smile and smug, smarmy demeanor they makes Booth hard to like.

I am also beginning to think Haye is really not that clever and its Booth who has dreamt up all the bad taste stunts.

Talking of Booth's expression; I did read an article by I think Groves or Haye, referring to Booth as Nookie Bear.

For our younger readers..:


http://i2.cdnds.net/09/17/550w_orville_4.jpg

I like nookie...

No, Booth can do one at the same time as Haye as far as I'm concerned.

Adam Booth is no genius. He gets his fighters (i.e. Haye and Groves) to brag about knocking seven bells outta their opponents only to "trick" them in the actual fight by making them fighting on the back foot. Adam Booth and Haye are made for each other though - all fart and no sh**!

Booth is a genius at annoying people.

He is behind all the bad behaviour stunts.


Still he never said he was a genius coach and you can't make a guy who doesn't want to fight a winner.

Good to see you here,Super D Boon !