Sale refuse to release Dwayne Peel...!

Peel's club, Sale, have blocked the scrum-half from joining Wales summer training, amid an on-going dispute with the Welsh Rugby Union about availabilty outside designated International Rugby Board time periods.
However, his new clubmate Andy Powell is with Wales as his contract with the Aviva Premiership side begins after the World Cup.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/13992149.stm

Isn't it the PRL who would block his release, not Sale (not directly at least)?

And Sale or the PRL don't have to release him until August 6th (I think), so I don't know why they would choose to release him without financial compensation.

How many England players are from Sale that are currently training with England?

3. Sheridan, Cueto and Fourie. How much do the RFU pay Sale every year to ensure they get access to their players?

robbo277 wrote:How much do the RFU pay Sale every year to ensure they get access to their players?

God knows...

I take it you meant to say that there are various sale players in the England squad but the club are being compensated by the RFU.

Ok..!

Why do Sale RFC/the PRL never agree to anything until it interferes with other nations preparations?

as much as it is an annoying stance for the PRL to take, it is entirely understandable that they would want to protect their assets and secure more financial reward for their members. The WRU know the situation and it seems we are surprised every time it happens. It just shows that if Wales want their players to be available they either have to play in Wales or pay up

maesteg

This is always the case. The PRL are always going to block player release if it's outside of the international window. I believe Scotland pay a certain amount to secure the release of their English based players but Wales don't so they will never be released. If Robbo and me know this I don't understand why the WRU can't work it out

its totally pedantic its not like hes going to be doing much with sale at the moment. Sadly the english clubs want to turn rugby into football. Im amazed that peel hasnt got a release clause written into his contract for worldcups. Personally im amazed that wales are even going on this trip to poland. I was going to say a few weeks of would proabably of been better but then a lot of them cant behave when given a day of.

Why is it Wales who always seem to feel they should be given special treatment?
Scotland seems to have no trouble getting players released from the PRL - are the WRU going to ever employ someone who is grown up enough to actually follow the rules the WRU agreed and talk to PRL, not just throw a tanturm?

Mitchell is free from Exeter as well as like Powell his contract is not until after WC.

It is the PPL rather than Sale as when KJ was up there he was willing to let players go but got stopped.

It's the timing and the dragging out of the scenario, notice it is only the PRL and not the top 14.

maestegmafia wrote:It's the timing and the dragging out of the scenario, notice it is only the PRL and not the top 14.

The Top14 made a fuss about an English player (Haskell?) a year or two back. Since then the likes of Wilkonson etc have negotiated international release clauses in their contracts.

PRL and Sale in 'Sticking To Contract Shocker'!

Isn't there an insurance angle to this? WRU insure the players during the International window - but the clubs are meant to cover the players outside those periods.

I believe that PRL are claiming that the WRU won't pick up the tab.

Kiwireddevil wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:It's the timing and the dragging out of the scenario, notice it is only the PRL and not the top 14.

The Top14 made a fuss about an English player (Haskell?) a year or two back. Since then the likes of Wilkonson etc have negotiated international release clauses in their contracts.

they had trouble again this season as well - http://frenchrugbyclub.com/Top-14/Top-14-2010-11/Top-14-Stade-Fume-001346.html

Peel knew the risks when he once again put pen to paper with Sale and extended his contract with the Premiership outfit. His own fault. I don't think he would have done us much good anyway he hasn't played very well the last few times I've watched him. Only thing grinding my gears is that it opens the door for Tavis Knoyle.

Why don't some of you english fans find a link stating why Sale RFC are not releasing a player.

You are all speculating....!

There is nothing on the PRltd site, or Sale RFC.

From our perspective it is always Sale RFC and Dwayne Peel with release problems.

If anyone can find a more detailed account of the situation it would certainly clear up all your speculation and accusations that it is the WRU's fault this situation always occurs.

Or you could come up with something to show it is Sale or PRL's fault?

You started the accusations, only fair you prove your case first.

maestegmafia wrote:If anyone can find a more detailed account of the situation it would certainly clear up all your speculation and accusations that it is the WRU's fault this situation always occurs.

It's easier just to assume that the WRU has messed up. It saves time in the long run

Anyway, if there always seems a problem with Sale and Peel (and Wales thought Peel was important to them and would be selected) wouldn't it have made sense to have already come to an agreement or ensure that Peel was playing elsewhere (ie in Wales)? Surely this would have been better than just hoping it all turned out ok or different to the last time.

SafeAsMilk wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:If anyone can find a more detailed account of the situation it would certainly clear up all your speculation and accusations that it is the WRU's fault this situation always occurs.

It's easier just to assume that the WRU has messed up. It saves time in the long run

Anyway, if there always seems a problem with Sale and Peel (and Wales thought Peel was important to them and would be selected) wouldn't it have made sense to have already come to an agreement or ensure that Peel was playing elsewhere (ie in Wales)? Surely this would have been better than just hoping it all turned out ok or different to the last time.

Again that's pathetic speculation.

Why it is Wales fault - we have this from the WRU "we will not discuss player-release issues with PRL. "

So how exactly do the WRU expect to agree player release with PRL? The WRU are a bunch of petulant children.

I am getting a lot of deja vu out of this thread ...

Presumably there is no agreement on paper, or the WRU would be sending their lawyers in to get a release - as England did with a Top 14 release a while back.

The PRU won't let their member clubs release players to Wales (or other international teams) for free, because if they do the next time they come to negotiate with the RFU the RFU can say "well if you do it for them ..."

There's a lot to be said for the NZ approach. Play at home if you want to wear the black shirt. (Sabbaticals excepted )

The PRL are the petulant children in this situation, holding players to ransom.

Snoopster, I think you'll find that Scotland are holding a "home-based" training camp just now as the English players are doing pre-season with their own clubs and haven't been released.
It's just a fact of life these days, I guess. The RFU were rich enough to come to an agreement with the clubs about player release/welfare.
I can't criticise players for playing in England because we only have 2 pro teams but they might need to bear in mind that because they can't attend all training sessions, they may slip down the national team's pecking order a bit.

Why complain? Peel has been pish poor by his 2005-2007 standards ever since those years. He's currently perhaps the best example of a player selected on rep and not on form.

Also if an English squad member was playing for one of the regions would we consider releasing him outside the IRB window? Each country's clubs are cooperative with the national side to some extent but only concerning that country's players quite understandably.

Knowsit17 wrote:Why complain? Peel has been pish poor by his 2005-2007 standards ever since those years. He's currently perhaps the best example of a player selected on rep and not on form.

Also if an English squad member was playing for one of the regions would we consider releasing him outside the IRB window? Each country's clubs are cooperative with the national side to some extent but only concerning that country's players quite understandably.

The WRU and the welsh regions have shown little issue with foreign players wishing to full fill international call ups. I have never heard any issues regarding.

Tommy Bowe
Deacon Manu
Sean Lamont
Nicky Walker

I agree that the WRU should not be held to ransom over welsh qualified players who have no club commitments being allowed to do what the player wishes. Maybe Peel would be a better player if he could train when he is required, not just when PRLtd allow.

Bedfordwelsh

Mitchell and Powell have just signed for their Exeter and Sale, so I'm assuming they made sure they were available for any and all World Cup training camps when they signed their contract.

kiwi

I believe teams like Georgia and Russia really suffer with the Top14 and getting access to their players.

maesteg

Further to snoopster's point, read this: http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2011/01/02/wru-won-t-budge-over-cross-border-player-release-issues-91466-27919054/

Selected quotes:

THE Welsh Rugby Union insist it will not change its stance and negotiate with England’s Premier Rugby Limited over a player-release deal for Wales players based across the border.

The WRU insist the only negotiations will take place with the Rugby Football Union amid suggestions from Saracens chief executive Edward Griffiths that Welsh rugby can find a solution with PRL.

Here, Regional Rugby Wales, the umbrella organisation which represents the four Welsh regions, signed a five-year deal with the WRU in September 2009.

The deal gave the four regions £6m per year between them, with a player-release clause allowing Wales coach Warren Gatland to call up Welsh players 13 days before Test matches.

The Rugby Football Union in England struck a similar deal with their Premiership clubs and paid Premier Rugby around £110m over eight years up to June 2016 to ensure beneficial player-access rights.

Premier Rugby – the umbrella organisation for the Aviva Premiership clubs – has no such deal with the WRU and ruled that no international players contracted to English clubs would be released for World Cup duty until August 4.

“But we will not discuss player-release issues with PRL. We will only do that with the RFU.”

Premier Rugby had ruled it would not allow its clubs to release players based in England until 35 days before the World Cup, acting on International Rugby Board regulations.

Premier Rugby, like France’s Top 14 clubs, had claimed they would adhere to IRB Regulation 9, which states: “The Rugby World Cup assembly period begins 35 days prior to the start of the tournament, during which warm-up matches may be played.”

The PRL do exactly what Regional Rugby Wales do and exactly what the equivolent French body do, look after their clubs and negotiate deals for the release of their players. The WRU refuse to negotiate with the PRL, and therefore don't get access to their players until the Rugby World Cup assembly period starts on the 4th August.

InjuredYetAgain wrote:Snoopster, I think you'll find that Scotland are holding a "home-based" training camp just now as the English players are doing pre-season with their own clubs and haven't been released.

you are right - the non home-based players it seems join up on Monday, http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/sport/World-Cup-training-camp-has.6793427.jp .
I knew a deal had been reached, so I just assumed it had started straight away - still though it does show deals can be reached. If the WRU were able to avoid the childish behaviour for long enough they'd have a deal in place as well.

I can't criticise players for playing in England because we only have 2 pro teams but they might need to bear in mind that because they can't attend all training sessions, they may slip down the national team's pecking order a bit.

A very good point - a lot of it comes down to the players. Do they want to play for their country more than they want to earn top money?

snoopster wrote:If the WRU were able to avoid the childish behaviour for long enough they'd have a deal in place as well.

Writing that you think the WRU are being childish makes me think that you are just trying to annoy people who disagree with you.. If you rephrased that maybe other opinions of you might raise a nudge...!

The WRU are not being childish, they just refuse to negotiate with a Ltd company that wishes to with strict the game of rugby outside of THEIR OWN INTERESTS.

maesteg

Why do the WRU negotiate with Regional Rugby Wales - the umbrella organisation for the Welsh regions, but not Premier Rugby - the umbrella organisation for the English clubs? What is the difference between the two organisations?

EDIT: Yes, RRW is a limited company: http://www.newportgwentdragons.com/newsarticle.aspx?n=6669

maestegmafia wrote:

snoopster wrote:If the WRU were able to avoid the childish behaviour for long enough they'd have a deal in place as well.

Writing that you think the WRU are being childish makes me think that you are just trying to annoy people who disagree with you.. If you rephrased that maybe other opinions of you might raise a nudge...!

The WRU are not being childish, they just refuse to negotiate with a Ltd company that wishes to with strict the game of rugby outside of THEIR OWN INTERESTS.

is seems that is exactly what your doing...

I really hope the WRU dont folk out money for someone who hasnt shown any form in years when we have someone like Wayne Evans playing at home and playing well enough to consider himself unlucky not to be involved in the first place.

mpc28 wrote:I really hope the WRU dont folk out money for someone who hasnt shown any form in years when we have someone like Wayne Evans playing at home and playing well enough to consider himself unlucky not to be involved in the first place.

The WRU should definitely not subserve to the ransom money the PRL ask for. The WRU are making a valid statement with this. One we should be proud of.


Effectively the PRL are saying that any foreign international player in the premiership should retire before playing for an English club.

That in my mind I wrong.

No club, or its petty organising body should be allowed to stand In the way of a players international ambitions.

It creates a massive divide between the wealthy and the poor nations of the world.

Tonga, Fiji, Samoa etc have plenty of players in the premiership. They should be allowed to represent their nations at the world cup. They should be allowed as much training time as any other team.

But England are using an economic noose to resrict their chances of competing.

We are lucky in Wales that we have only one player in the premiership.

robbo277 wrote:Bedfordwelsh

Mitchell and Powell have just signed for their Exeter and Sale, so I'm assuming they made sure they were available for any and all World Cup training camps when they signed their contract.

kiwi

I believe teams like Georgia and Russia really suffer with the Top14 and getting access to their players.

maesteg

Further to snoopster's point, read this: http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2011/01/02/wru-won-t-budge-over-cross-border-player-release-issues-91466-27919054/

Selected quotes:

THE Welsh Rugby Union insist it will not change its stance and negotiate with England’s Premier Rugby Limited over a player-release deal for Wales players based across the border.

The WRU insist the only negotiations will take place with the Rugby Football Union amid suggestions from Saracens chief executive Edward Griffiths that Welsh rugby can find a solution with PRL.

Here, Regional Rugby Wales, the umbrella organisation which represents the four Welsh regions, signed a five-year deal with the WRU in September 2009.

The deal gave the four regions £6m per year between them, with a player-release clause allowing Wales coach Warren Gatland to call up Welsh players 13 days before Test matches.

The Rugby Football Union in England struck a similar deal with their Premiership clubs and paid Premier Rugby around £110m over eight years up to June 2016 to ensure beneficial player-access rights.

Premier Rugby – the umbrella organisation for the Aviva Premiership clubs – has no such deal with the WRU and ruled that no international players contracted to English clubs would be released for World Cup duty until August 4.

“But we will not discuss player-release issues with PRL. We will only do that with the RFU.”

Premier Rugby had ruled it would not allow its clubs to release players based in England until 35 days before the World Cup, acting on International Rugby Board regulations.

Premier Rugby, like France’s Top 14 clubs, had claimed they would adhere to IRB Regulation 9, which states: “The Rugby World Cup assembly period begins 35 days prior to the start of the tournament, during which warm-up matches may be played.”

The PRL do exactly what Regional Rugby Wales do and exactly what the equivolent French body do, look after their clubs and negotiate deals for the release of their players. The WRU refuse to negotiate with the PRL, and therefore don't get access to their players until the Rugby World Cup assembly period starts on the 4th August.

It's simple the difference is that the PRL don't want foreign players representing their countries unless they are financially substituted a massive amount of money, that fellow unions like the WRU think is exorbitant, ridiculous and should be illegal.

The Welsh Regional Rugby Ltd release welsh based foreign international players when ever their home nations require it.

I guess in Wales we hold the international game in far more recerance than the selfish English clubs.

maestegmafia wrote:

mpc28 wrote:I really hope the WRU dont folk out money for someone who hasnt shown any form in years when we have someone like Wayne Evans playing at home and playing well enough to consider himself unlucky not to be involved in the first place.

The WRU should definitely not subserve to the ransom money the PRL ask for. The WRU are making a valid statement with this. One we should be proud of.


Effectively the PRL are saying that any foreign international player in the premiership should retire before playing for an English club.

That in my mind I wrong.

No club, or its petty organising body should be allowed to stand In the way of a players international ambitions.

No, what the PRL are saying is that any player signing up for a Premiership club should have to honour their contract. I have never heard of an issue where a player hasn't been released by a Premiership Rugby Club during an IRB International window. However outside of IRB windows they are contracted to the clubs and should honour those committments they made. After all, they would be more than a little ticked off if the Premiership clubs didn't honour their committments to the players (ie stopped paying them).

maestegmafia wrote:It creates a massive divide between the wealthy and the poor nations of the world.

Tonga, Fiji, Samoa etc have plenty of players in the premiership. They should be allowed to represent their nations at the world cup. They should be allowed as much training time as any other team.

Don't turn this into rich versus poor. Tonga, Fiji, Samoa etc don't hold training camps in Poland more than 35 days before the World Cup. The WRU isn't a poor union in rugby terms, they can afford to hold these training camps, they have found the money to pay RRW Ltd to ensure player release, why can't they pay the PRL?

maestegmafia wrote:But England are using an economic noose to resrict their chances of competing.

We are lucky in Wales that we have only one player in the premiership.

England? This is the PRL, completely seperate from the RFU and the England team. For a long time the PRL did just this to the England team and hamstrung them by holding players until the very start of an International window and demanding their players back on rest weeks in the 6 Nations etc. That was until the RFU and the PRL signed a contract to ensure player release (the Elite Performance Squad agreement) in returns for a not insignificant quantity of money (I think it is £110 million over 8 years). But don't act like the PRL are doing England any favours, they are doing what they are doing for their member clubs, and why shouldn't they?

maestegmafia wrote:It's simple the difference is that the PRL don't want foreign players representing their countries unless they are financially substituted a massive amount of money, that fellow unions like the WRU think is exorbitant, ridiculous and should be illegal.

Not true. The PRL can't legally stop a player from joining up with his country before the IRB International windows. Who votes of these windows? The WRU, the RFU and all the other unions. They all voted to start the window on the 4th August. And if you want a player outside of those times, you are going to have to pay because he is contracted to a PRL member club.

And you were talking about speculation earlier, how do you know it is a "massive amount of money" and who from the WRU has said it is "exorbitant, ridiculous and should be illegal"? It would be surprising if anyone from the WRU said that, considering they refuse to negotiate with the PRL and therefore are unlikely to know how much the fee is.

maestegmafia wrote:The Welsh Regional Rugby Ltd release welsh based foreign international players when ever their home nations require it.

I guess in Wales we hold the international game in far more recerance than the selfish English clubs.

Not at all. RRW Ltd charge the WRU for the use of their players outside of International windows, and I'm sure they'd charge any other Union just the same - unless a player gets release dates written into his contract. It's not a PRL thing, all clubs want the best deal they can get. As the WRU flat out refuse to negotiate with the PRL, why should the PRL even consider releasing Dwayne Peel a minute before the 4th August?

Robbo...!

The RRRW let foreign players play for their nations outside of the irb windows when welsh players are training outside the IRB windows, the PRLtd do not let anyone bar England players train outside the IRB windows.

The PRLtd are an exception and are ungracious.

maestegmafia wrote:Robbo...!

The RRRW let foreign players play for their nations outside of the irb windows when welsh players are training outside the IRB windows, the PRLtd do not let anyone bar England players train outside the IRB windows.

The PRLtd are an exception and are ungracious.

Maesteg, Top14 also don't let internationals train outside Int windows unless specifically contracted - so while you can argue ungracious, they're not really an exception. And the Crusaders certainly haven't released Fotuali'i to play for Samoa today either.

And the PRL are at least consistent. They won't release players outside of international windows to anyone (Baabaas even) without compensation.

Who are these players the RRW so graciously release for free? Have they had the sense to get release dates written into their contracts?

The PRL have made their stance very clear. The WRU refuse to negotiate with the PRL (even though they have negotiated with another Limited Company in Regional Rugby Wales). I don't know why anyone would then expect Sale to release Dwayne Peel.

And as I mentioned, the PRL never used to release England players outside the International windows, not until the PRL and the RFU signed the Elite Performance Squad agreement.

robbo277 wrote:Who are these players the RRW so graciously release for free? Have they had the sense to get release dates written into their contracts?

Nicky Walker, Tommy Bowe, deacon Manu etc etc etc...!

And have they got release dates written into their contracts? I bet the answer is yes.

robbo277 wrote:And have they got release dates written into their contracts? I bet the answer is yes.

I bet they don't.

Find proof one way or the other before you speculate...!

maestegmafia wrote:

robbo277 wrote:And have they got release dates written into their contracts? I bet the answer is yes.

I bet they don't.

Find proof one way or the other before you speculate...!

I like how you feel free to use speculation to support your point but are so against it when others do the same...

robbo277 wrote:And have they got release dates written into their contracts? I bet the answer is yes.

I doubt Deacon Manu does as he didnt decide to play for Fiji until after he had signed for the Scarlets.

mpc28 wrote:

robbo277 wrote:And have they got release dates written into their contracts? I bet the answer is yes.

I doubt Deacon Manu does as he didnt decide to play for Fiji until after he had signed for the Scarlets.

He has been at the Scarlets for a long time now, I think?
I'm speculating here, but I'd guess he has signed at least one new contract since he arrived and decided to play for Fiji?

Yeah possibly snoopster but his decision to play for Fiji was only in the last couple of years.

Dwayne Peel only has himself to blame in my opinion he knew the issues he had during his first contract with Sale so there is really no excuse for not getting those issues ironed out in his 2nd contract.

mpc28 wrote:Yeah possibly snoopster but his decision to play for Fiji was only in the last couple of years.

Just looking at it on the internet - he seems to have first played for Fiji in 2009 and signed a new contract in 2010 so he could have clauses added then.

mpc28 wrote:Dwayne Peel only has himself to blame in my opinion he knew the issues he had during his first contract with Sale so there is really no excuse for not getting those issues ironed out in his 2nd contract.

I agree on this, he knew the situation but opted to stay with Sale without having clauses added to his contract or going elsewhere. It does seem to me, without meaning to be unfair on Peel, like he prefers a big club contract to maximising his chances of international rugby for Wales... or he is incredibly dim and hasn't worked it out yet.

snoopster wrote:I agree on this, he knew the situation but opted to stay with Sale without having clauses added to his contract or going elsewhere. It does seem to me, without meaning to be unfair on Peel, like he prefers a big club contract to maximising his chances of international rugby for Wales... or he is incredibly dim and hasn't worked it out yet.

He stayed at Sale because no Welsh region offered him a contract to come back to Wales, however based on his form at the time you can't really blame them.
But I agree this is Peel's own fault he should of made sure he had sufficient cover in his contract in the event he had a chance to resurect his international career. He is still quite young and it's such a shame so many years of his career have been wasted from a Wales point of view simply because he took a bit more money and went to Sale.

maestegmafia wrote:

robbo277 wrote:And have they got release dates written into their contracts? I bet the answer is yes.

I bet they don't.

Find proof one way or the other before you speculate...!

Think about it. Why would RRW demand money from the WRU to release their players as and when the WRU decide they want them, but then just let non-Welsh players go for free?

What it comes down to is the fact that this is the professional era, and if Peel hasn't had release dates written into his contract, he doesn't have to be released. Whether RRW is an altogether more generous (read amateur) organisation that lets people walk out on their contracts (unlikely) or Tommy Bowe, Deacon Manu and Nikki Walker had the sense to get release dates written into their contracts (an all together more likely scenario) is a side issue. Personally I don't believe for a second that RRW is letting players go for free, it wouldn't work as a business model. But the main point is that the PRL don't have to release Peel, they're not in the wrong here.

AlynDavies wrote:He stayed at Sale because no Welsh region offered him a contract to come back to Wales, however based on his form at the time you can't really blame them.
But I agree this is Peel's own fault he should of made sure he had sufficient cover in his contract in the event he had a chance to resurect his international career. He is still quite young and it's such a shame so many years of his career have been wasted from a Wales point of view simply because he took a bit more money and went to Sale.

Was it that no region was willing to offer him a contract or that none of them were willing to offer him a contract that was close to what he was on?
Either way, I think we're completely agreed that it comes down to Peel - he's not willing to cut his expectations enough to make himself an affordable for a Welsh region nor take the cut in salary that a non-Welsh club would demand in exchange for him having release clauses in his contract.

robbo277 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

robbo277 wrote:And have they got release dates written into their contracts? I bet the answer is yes.

I bet they don't.

Find proof one way or the other before you speculate...!

Think about it. Why would RRW demand money from the WRU to release their players as and when the WRU decide they want them, but then just let non-Welsh players go for free?

What it comes down to is the fact that this is the professional era, and if Peel hasn't had release dates written into his contract, he doesn't have to be released. Whether RRW is an altogether more generous (read amateur) organisation that lets people walk out on their contracts (unlikely) or Tommy Bowe, Deacon Manu and Nikki Walker had the sense to get release dates written into their contracts (an all together more likely scenario) is a side issue. Personally I don't believe for a second that RRW is letting players go for free, it wouldn't work as a business model. But the main point is that the PRL don't have to release Peel, they're not in the wrong here.

I don't think they necessarily do have such clauses. It's a case of good will. Take Tommy Bowe- should they block him from going back for training squads, any Irish province would happily take him right away. Every time his contract comes up he has big-money offers from Ireland to consider. If they want to keep him, they keep him sweet. Whether or not there is an actual clause in there is a red herring.

Basically, letting him go to training camps is the price they pay for keeping him whether this is actually down in writing or not. Dwayne Peel on the other hand is obviously less concerned about training camps! As his continued presence at Sale demonstrates. If it was that big an issue, he'd seek a move or a re-negotiation but he seems happy enough.

Also, this professional/amateur line is silly. Teams in the Pro12 have a different raison d'etre to clubs. They exist to win, yes, but also to expose young players to that level of rugby in the interests of the national side. If a player is away at a training camp, that is the perfect opportunity to do just that. After all, with no relegation to worry about, teams will always be keen to rotate and give youth it's chance.

The important thing is that these players are available for the Heineken Cup, which is not an issue here. Regions/provinces are generally happy enough to compromise in a way English/French clubs are not because they have a different purpose and a different way of conducting themselves.