SuperXV Semi final threads

by Taylorman Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:00 am

First topic message reminder :

Keeping the intro short im picking saders to do it easier then most expect purely because they have so many big match players.

The guts of the AB team is here and this is the big time. Matches to date have been about preserving the top 6 spot. Now its about winning or out. Im picking the unstoppable force to beat the invincible defence.

Blues is much tougher and seems to be a 10s battle that will determine a lot. It may well do. Reds are favourites and that may suit a quietly confident very experienced blues side.
Odds are we will get one from tonight. Im picking 2.
Saders by 12
blues by a nose.

by emack2 Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:36 pm

Missed most of the first game,and to my disgust was unable to record the second as i was out.
As a fan of NZ Rugby I would like to see Crusaders do it,to win a S15 playing every game away would be something else.
But my point is ,IF you pick a team for what you think the otherside will do
and they don`t oblige.You have to be able to adapt.
Crusaders this year at full strength are arguably the best inthe comp.and have done incredibly well just to get where they are.
There Scrummage is the best in the comp,Lineout pretty good,great back row and good backs.
From the reports Blues and Stormers had most of the possession but Reds and Crusaders made there`s count.
Next week it needs Crusaders to play there normal game up front,mix and match behind.There Defence is pretty good and it needs DC to have one of his good games with the boot.
Crusaders know knock our Rugby bettter than any one else ,the one problem they have may be breakdown penalties.
Different refs giving different interpratations of the tackle law.Cooper if he`s goal kicking is just liable to kick everything next week.
Overall if the REDS win i`m ok with that they have been top of the Log all year.Despite the vagaries of the draw you can only beat those in front of you,they have done just that.

by Rob B Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:51 pm

Sometimes I think people actually watched a different game to the actual Reds-Blues game. Comments about poor refereeing and how the Blues "allowed" Cooper to run, fail to identify the fact the Reds completely dominated the Blues - the Blues were pretty lucky it wasn't a 50-13 hiding rather than 30-13. Cooper and Co ran rings around the Blues - they were devastating to watch. I didn't see any complaints about Bryce's handling of the Crusaders Sharks game, but when a Kiwi team loses it always the ref or somehow the losing team let them win. Typical. Now we'll have a week of comments about how the Crusaders can't lose in the final etc etc.

by Taylorman Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:39 pm

Thats just rubbish rob. First of all if you dont know him the only one that harps on about the ref all the time is grey ghost and he did throw a few in on the saders game.
As kiwis we generally distance ourselves from him.
Yes the reds ran rings around the blues but they did not dominate. Scrums lineouts and even around the breakdowns blues were either ahead or at least on par with the reds.
The difference was blues made no use of the huge amount of ball they got and yes it was due to excellent defence but it was also due to inept attack from a top 4 side and ridiculous choices- a chip from inside the 25 for example.
Reds got an intercept try and a brilliant one down the right wing through couper. The tries they got were the only tries they looked like getting so 30 points was about right.
Blues missed a couple of chances through paynes drop and a couple of forward runs. But yes reds deserved it and it was primarily couper that kept them well ahead.
Was that not the game you were watching?
My point was when compared to the saders game reds will have a problem at set piece time and the saders defence will not let couper have the space or time the blues did. This has also been the case with the AB's- Couper does NOT get the room he got Saturday.
The reds might win but theyll have to be better than Saturday and will need to call on all 15 to do it rather than the heroics of one or 2 on attack because I can bet you Couper will be relatively quiet this weekend, and hopefully for the Reds that may open up elsewhere.

As this Saders team is one with a mission, its knockout rugby and the Reds are in new territory. Saders have done it 7 times, and this team is on paper the best of them all. So if the Reds beat them, they'll certainly have deserved it, and I certainly wont be blaming refs but I can't see it.

Far too many guns for this Reds team.

by Taylorman Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:05 pm

Crusaders certainly have respect for Cooper:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/5226780/Jolts-fail-to-blunt-Carters-appetite-for-final-win

so for the Reds its about the rest of the team stepping up for this one.

and more of what faces the Reds who appear to be in the same position...
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/opinion/5226566/Crusaders-players-in-brutal-form-ahead-of-final

"By the time referee Craig Joubert blew fulltime it was almost embarrassing for the Stormers. Because everything – well, nearly everything – had been stacked in their favour. Having had the previous week off they were rested, rehabilitated and ready to draw the Crusaders into their carefully prepared ambush.

Instead they were given a lesson on how to cope with the pressure of finals rugby and it started and finished with the Crusaders turning off their opponents' gas. Slowly, but surely, they twisted the noose around the Stormers' necks until they were seeing stars. Then it was all over. The Crusaders were 29-10 winners and preparing to pack their bags for the final against the Queensland Reds in Brisbane. "

"The Reds should be warned. Everything is in their favour – apart from one thing. The Crusaders know how to win finals and they have already won seven titles. And they want to make it eight"

I'll stop there for now...just an observation of what to expect this week.

by Taylorman Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:27 am

The beauty about this match is as Ewan Mckenzie says both teams have suffered huge adversity in their supporting regions (The Queensland floods/ Christchurch earthquakes) so theres got to be some mutual admiration that both these two managed to get to the final- in fact admiration is probably an understatement.

Obviously I'm supporting the saders as I have from the outset but certainly no problems here if the reds win this. They've had their mountains to climb and are a young team, not to mention they have our Tokoroa boy in Cooper, and they've deserved top spot.

Either way, its going to be great...

by aucklandlaurie Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:51 am

taylorman
On another note;
I have recently spent a month or so on holiday travelling in Queensland. i was very impressed with the amount of coverage/support being given not only to The reds but rugby in general in Queensland,and that was in the middle of "State of origin" .
Ewen mckenzie has done a very good job when you consider where they were just a year ago....

by Taylorman Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:24 am

Yes he has. Watched his interview. A very likeable fellow. I was there May but saw no sign of it though my sister filled me in. She lives just north of Brisbane (Chemside) which appears to have missed the most of it.

No doubting the Reds are on the fastest progression line and it will be interesting to see what Deans does with the A team- I reckon there will be a fair spread as several teams have their stars.

The Ab's have their senior players and after the cleanout next year we'll be in the same pos as Aus 3 years ago- looking for new players. We tend to fill them faster and suffer the usual losses doing so

But honestly Laurie werent the Blues terrible. They really don't have a clue in the backs and Cooper and co showed them up ridiculously on how to run the ball at pace using the right lines. Blues with all their ball were just crash crash all night. Watching the Saders a few hours later hit the line and breakdowns was like chalk and cheese.

Payne dropping the ball like a rabbit caught in headlights said it all- no idea.

Maa Nonu and anscombe next year may set the steering wheel straight but what a waste.

by aucklandlaurie Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:51 am

Taylorman
the Blues were atrocious,and the two deserved teams are in the final.I was most impressed with Reds defensive line speed.and I believe it was this as much as any thing else which took away options from the Blues.
this year the likes of McCallister and Brett had every opportunity to perform but just didnt cash in on that chance, the sooner they go overseas the better...
The Blues forwards next year has a lot of positives about it with John Afoa being the only "export", then bring back in fit plyers of the likes of Borich,Woodcock, and Brad Mika.
For mine the only Auckland back that deserves consideration by Ted is Renee (rooster) Ranger....and someone has to say it but Mathewsons distribution is too slow...

by Taylorman Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:16 am

Yes how the saders work out the Reds defence will be the most interesting aspect but I think they'll be going forward more this week.

Stormers had the best defensive record of the SXV and the saders managed to break through a couple of times but its the all round play that impresses- every department is quality- scrums, lineouts, defence, breakdowns and go forward rugby, as well as carters input and goalkicking. Fringe ABs like Flynn, fruean, Guilford all firing as well so are the subs- Fotuali'i , Todd, Berqhist etc...

by emack2 Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:10 am

My only hope is the final lives up to the semi`s I missed,hopefully the final will be properly covered.
Think it`s fair to say the two best teams this year will contest the Final,heart says Crusaders head says Reds purely on home advantage.
Is the Ref Stuart Dickenson or Jonathan Kaplan heard the namesBandied about some time ago they had it.
In any case either of these two sides wil be worthy winners.

by Taylorman Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:16 am

I believe its Dickison- was named last week. probably should be a neutral given theres no reason it couldnt be- I mean the saders only found out Saturday they would have to fly to Brissy.

Try and get to watch both the games in full Alan. Very interesting watching.

I do go on a bit but all in all I think another easy saders win. Picked an easy Stormers win but even I didnt think it would be that complete.

Same again this week. Similar margin. Just too many guns and areas covered. By now Saders have wiped the travel factor off the map for this team. It has a new meaning now- its almost an advantage.

by aucklandlaurie Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:07 am

Taylorman
Wasnt there some announcement from SANZAR a couple of weeks ago that Bryce Lawrence was appointed to do the final or was I dreaming that ???

by Taylorman Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:23 am

I thought the same announcement said Dickinson may be I got the wrong one.

Who did the call on McCaw in the last minute a couple of weeks ago? I thought it was the same ref...havnt really paid attention cos...arent they all the same anyway?... Whistle

by aucklandlaurie Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:38 am

Throughout the series I thought that Joubert and kaplan were consistently the best refs,Bryce lawrence and Pollock looked out of their depth,Pollock especially in the Republic.
But heres another one,I didnt see anything wrong with Steve Walshs handling of the Crusaders Sharks game at Twickenham....

by Rob B Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:40 am

Bryce Lawrence was named the Final ref 2 weeks ago. A NZ ref with a NZ team in the final. Go figure - let's hope he has a better game than the Crusaders-Sharks match - a few of my NZ friends found his performance an embarrassment. Is SANZAR so hard up they can't afford to fly a neutral ref to Grand Final and put him up in a hotel for a couple of nights?

by aucklandlaurie Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:50 am

Maybe they didnt think a NZ team would be in the final.....

by Rob B Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:56 am

Or, maybe they did!

by Mehrts is god Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:01 am

welshjohn369 wrote:Cooper playing a superb game what an outstanding Australian guy he is. More flair than Carter and will eventually take his crown as worlds best.

We'll see how good this"Australian" guy is come Saturday night when he plays a REAL team laughing

Let's hope Richie and Kieran don't bury him too deep!!!And I think it's a safe bet that Mr Carter will still be holding his worlds best crown after this demolition derby by the Crusaders. king

by Jello Biafra Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:57 am

A NZ ref with a NZ team in the final. Go figure

I'm surprised by this, especially after all the bleating from them about "the need for neutral referees" after the last time Queensland beat the Crusaders. What will the Kiwi's have to whinge about now when the Crusaders lose? My tips are:
1. Tiredness
2. Too much travel
3. The ref is from the North Island and hates us Southerners
4. Food poisoning
5. We didn't lose, Queenlsand just scored more points than us.
6. Cooper was born in NZ so we won a moral victory / the Aussies need to steal our players to win
7. The referee is on the payroll of ASIO.
8. Richie is/was never offside, he just plays on the edge.

We'll see how good this"Australian" guy is come Saturday night when he plays a REAL team

I thought the Blues were a REAL team. Come to think of it they did wilt like pansies in the 2nd half so perhaps you are right - they aren't a REAL team after all. Just a bunch of pretty flowers pretending to be men pretending to be playing rugby.

by Rob B Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:06 am

That's right, last week the Blues were going to slaughter the Reds. Then they lost so now they are "atrocious", "terrible", "didn't have a clue" and suddenly not a "real" team.

by Rob B Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:29 am

Taylorman wrote:Thats just rubbish rob. First of all if you dont know him the only one that harps on about the ref all the time is grey ghost and he did throw a few in on the saders game.
As kiwis we generally distance ourselves from him.
Yes the reds ran rings around the blues but they did not dominate. Scrums lineouts and even around the breakdowns blues were either ahead or at least on par with the reds.
The difference was blues made no use of the huge amount of ball they got and yes it was due to excellent defence but it was also due to inept attack from a top 4 side and ridiculous choices- a chip from inside the 25 for example.
Reds got an intercept try and a brilliant one down the right wing through couper. The tries they got were the only tries they looked like getting so 30 points was about right.
Blues missed a couple of chances through paynes drop and a couple of forward runs. But yes reds deserved it and it was primarily couper that kept them well ahead.
Was that not the game you were watching?
My point was when compared to the saders game reds will have a problem at set piece time and the saders defence will not let couper have the space or time the blues did. This has also been the case with the AB's- Couper does NOT get the room he got Saturday.
The reds might win but theyll have to be better than Saturday and will need to call on all 15 to do it rather than the heroics of one or 2 on attack because I can bet you Couper will be relatively quiet this weekend, and hopefully for the Reds that may open up elsewhere.

As this Saders team is one with a mission, its knockout rugby and the Reds are in new territory. Saders have done it 7 times, and this team is on paper the best of them all. So if the Reds beat them, they'll certainly have deserved it, and I certainly wont be blaming refs but I can't see it.

Far too many guns for this Reds team.

We'll see. Reds are up 2-0 against Crusaders this year.

And, it's not rubbish actually. As a general comment the average Kiwi supporter, when they lose, run straight to the excuse: i) it was the ref; or ii) we lost it because we were atrocious/terrible - your own words or iii) they let the other team win/they let Cooper run. And in fact, you have have separately posted on this site the fact the Kiwi supporters are shocking with their attacks on refs whenever they lose - and quoting Paddy O'Brien who said the same thing. The point is (and this is not necessarily directed at you) is the whinging that happens when a NZ side loses and the failure to give credit to the other team when it is (objectively) due.

With 35% of possession Reds easily put points on the board. And Cooper left 12 points from kicks out there so that would easily have been 42-13. With a bit more reliable possession (ie if Faingaa could throw a straight ball into the lineout ) then there would have been even more try scoring opportunities deep in the Bues 22. Blues were fortunate the Reds lineout did not click all night.

Agree Reds will have to lift next week and they probably will do so. Breakdown is where it will be won or lost.

by welshjohn369 Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:16 am

Mehrts is god wrote:
welshjohn369 wrote:Cooper playing a superb game what an outstanding Australian guy he is. More flair than Carter and will eventually take his crown as worlds best.

We'll see how good this"Australian" guy is come Saturday night when he plays a REAL team Let's hope Richie and Kieran don't bury him too deep!!!And I think it's a safe bet that Mr Carter will still be holding his worlds best crown after this demolition derby by the Crusaders.

Hmmmm! A real team huh? So the other 4 teams in NZ are just pretend are they?

As Taylor says Cooper is not making as many mistakes. The Blues could have tried to take him out but failed, in what way will the Crusaders do any better? Cooper a decent Aussie. Yahoo

by **Biltong** Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:19 am

My take on the two semi finals.

The blues gave Quade Cooper far too much respect, I am not a back line player, but even I know that when defending on the heels of your feet you are beaten. Every time Quade got the ball the blues waited for him, not once did they attack him in the tackle. This is something you won't see the Crusaders do.

They will negate Cooper, mark my words.

Rene Ranger was the only blues player that stood out for me. Otherwise they looked predictable and the Reds were in their faces during defence.

The Crusaders played simple rugby for the first 30 minutes, and soaked up what the Sotrmers threw at them. This game was reminiscent of the sharks vs Crusaders game. Both games was clse until in both cases first the sharks and then the stormers gave hail mary passes that ended in intercept tries against them. In both cases that was when the contest was over.

The Crusaders did what most expected the Stormers to do in the first half. They kept calm, played territory and kicked their 3 points. The Stormers didn't.

I put my money on the Crusaders to win the final.

by Taylorman Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:34 am

Rob all your comments are the reasons I believe the Reds wont win. With 35% posession against the Blues they are unlikely to get more against the Crusaders.

Yes they're up 2-0 (havnt checked but I'll go with that). Crusaders are up 7-0 in Finals and last week showed the Stormers- another to not win a title- why.

Its agreed the Blues got wiped but then you use the same argument you accuse NZers of- the Blues didnt attack etc. the Reds didnt win more posession or get their lineouts right- isnt that a little to do with who theyre up against? Or is it only a one way thing?

Facts are the Reds did well with what they had. The Crusaders dominated the Stormers in nearly every area- did you see the scrum go back every time? Don't know about you but if I were the Reds I'd be very very worried about getting decent ball this weekend.

by Rob B Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:46 am

I think the Reds can do it with similar amounts of possession. While the Crusaders played the perfect 80 minutes last week, an issue will be whether they can repeat it again, or have they already played their grand final? Time will tell. The Reds do have a defensive set up that can keep the Crusaders backline quiet and they did an effective job at this last game they played. With the line out last week it was not so much the opposition - Faingaa threw 3 balls in crooked when deep in the blues 22. That obviously has to be fixed as the Crusaders will not give them many chances to score. Finals record pretty irrelevant for this Reds team - I don't think inexperience or nerves will be the issue.

by kiakahaaotearoa Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:39 am

The Crusaders have the perfect carbon copy of what not to do in their final against the Reds. The Blues gave deep kicks with poor chasing to allow Cooper to get a head of steam up and counter-attack with space (albeit with brilliance). Inside the 22 and Stephen Brett does a poor chip kick that results in a hatrick for the speedster.

Cooper is a confidence player. You get him performing that kind of magic and he grows in stature. You keep it tight through the forwards and aim for his channels and you keep him busy off the ball.

I really was in awe of that Crusaders performance. So much travelling and so much focus when it counts. A thrilling spectacle put on by the Reds. Those passes by Genia and Cooper made that second try for Davies were absolute peaches.

A great final in store. Will the occasion get to the Reds in their first final appearance? Or will the 10th final for the Crusaders be the most motivating for the players? It´ll be great to find out and it´s going to be fairytale stuff to whoever wins.

by disneychilly Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:58 am

Glad these teams are in the final. They've played the best and most entertaining rugby of the 15 teams as well as overcoming hardships.

They should never have picked a ref in advance. Wait and go for an SA ref in this case. Silly especially as Lawrence's performance last time round was rubbish.

The Blues don't have a kicker that can match Carter. He'll put the ball into space or into touch-expect to see Guildford haring up after it to deny the Reds a quick throw in. Tom Marshall's kicking could be pinpointed though. Seemed to hit it straight to the player on Sat-he has kicked well in the past but it is a final.

You give the Saders the amount of ball the Blues had and most people would back them to come out on top this weekend. They have a far better pack too so who's to say they won't get that much ball? They'll maintain their discipline a lot better too-just have to cut down any chances from broken play as that's where the Reds got their tries.

Add that to learning from their mistakes last time and I reckon the Saders in a close one. Hope the Reds get enough ball to thrill us though. Man are they great to watch.

by TheGreyGhost Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:38 pm

Rob B wrote:Bryce Lawrence was named the Final ref 2 weeks ago. A NZ ref with a NZ team in the final. Go figure - let's hope he has a better game than the Crusaders-Sharks match - a few of my NZ friends found his performance an embarrassment. Is SANZAR so hard up they can't afford to fly a neutral ref to Grand Final and put him up in a hotel for a couple of nights?

I thought it was only me who "harped on about the referees"?. I merely said that Kaplan was erratic and inconsistent in his rulings, which I think is a view that was widely held in the Blues v Reds game, and that Kiwis shouldn't be criticised by some dumb Pom journalist for complaining about Dickinson's absurd last minute get out of jail free card that he issued to in the reds favour.

Steve Walsh is unquestionably the worlds best referee. He should be handling the final, and also be an automatic selection for the world cup final. No other referee has his empathy for the game, understanding of the rules, composure and fitness. He is the referees referee and should be a shoe in to take the helm from POB when he finally retires.

by Taylorman Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:02 pm

Yep...Walsh...a refs ref...a mans man... and back from rehab for being just that...

by Rob B Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:49 am

I am not harping on about referees, just the Sanzar policy. Sanzar's view on neutrality is you can't have a ref from the same province refereeing that province's game. However, that's clearly a joke. They have to be seen to be unbiased and you eliminate the perception by having an SA ref for the final. Bryce looked like he was running around in a Crusaders jersey in the Sharks game. Any SA ref would do.

by Taylorman Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:20 am

I think we have found the oz version of our own GGhost.

by Rob B Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:51 am

Face it Taylorman, you would be whinging like a tired 3 year old if Stu Dickinson got the game.

by **Ozzy3213** Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:01 am

As a neutral I can say i agree with Rob B.

It is not rocket science is it. Wait ti see who makes the final and appoint a ref from the non competing union.

Kaplan or Joubert would have been.

It is a poor decision to give the game to Lawrence.

by kiakahaaotearoa Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:08 am

I don´t think anyone thinks it´s a good decision. The process needs a review. A neutral ref should mean from a different country. However, that means SA teams wouldn´t get Joubert who seemed to be a very good ref so either way I guess there´s no completely fair system.

Good to see the game is a sell-out. Well done to the Queensland fans who have had a feast of league and union of late. At least their stadium is still operating.

The Crusaders have a pack that can do some damage. Reds managed to contain them last time though I don´t expect Genia and Cooper to be given as much space as the Blues gave them last week. Going to be a cracker of a game. Great to see it´s a sell-out as the final deserves a big atmosphere for the two best teams.

by **Ozzy3213** Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:11 am

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I don´t think anyone thinks it´s a good decision. The process needs a review. A neutral ref should mean from a different country. However, that means SA teams wouldn´t get Joubert who seemed to be a very good ref so either way I guess there´s no completely fair system.

Good to see the game is a sell-out. Well done to the Queensland fans who have had a feast of league and union of late. At least their stadium is still operating.

The Crusaders have a pack that can do some damage. Reds managed to contain them last time though I don´t expect Genia and Cooper to be given as much space as the Blues gave them last week. Going to be a cracker of a game. Great to see it´s a sell-out as the final deserves a big atmosphere for the two best teams.

Agree totally that it is great that it is a sell out.

Reds need the game to open up if they are going to win. if it gets tight on the scoreboard towards the end, I would have to back the Crusaders experience to take them to the title.

Really looking forward to what should be a fantastic game.

by TheGreyGhost Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:23 pm

According to that widely respected pillar of unquestionable integrity Dwyer, New Zealander's always cheat and no referee ever stops them.

So I guess it doesn't matter whether the Ref is a Kiwi or not, because you know those poor defenseless, whiter-than-white Aussies will get the raw end of the pineapple whilst the New Zealander's deliberately cheat at the scrum, at the breakdown, in the lineout, and most annoying keep cheating by kicking the ball through the posts rather than following Quade Cooper's example of kicking the ball pretty much anywhere other than through the posts. What a model of integrity he is.

by Taylorman Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:52 pm

Rob I couldnt give a toss who refs. i dont bother about a refs performance. I've seen them range from pathetic to great and good and bad just comes with the territory.

Im of the opinion thats refs dont get to that level to favour one team or another and dont survive long if they mess up all the time.

So I just don't concern myself with them at all. I think they should be neutral because thats logical and it stops a whole lot of moaning when some people actually think they're out to get 'their team'

Guess we'll just have to leave the bragging rights till the weekend.

by Rob B Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:24 am

Taylorman,
Well, after an inflamatory sentence was removed from your post, that just about sounds like a fair response!

by Jello Biafra Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:50 am

So I guess it doesn't matter whether the Ref is a Kiwi or not, because you know those poor defenseless, whiter-than-white Aussies will get the raw end of the pineapple whilst the New Zealander's deliberately cheat at the scrum, at the breakdown, in the lineout,

Finally!!! a Kiwi who has taken their rose-tinted spectacles off. Glad to see at least one of you can admit it!

by TheGreyGhost Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:08 pm

Now that you're thinking along my lines, and given that they're all pros, know the rules inside out, and you are resigned to NZ cheating and getting away with it, and are certain the Ockers would never think of cheating...why bother with a ref at all? Just give the whistle to Ritchie and he can ping you Aussies for those "accidental" fouls, and turn the same blind eye to NZ misdemeanours that the ref would?

by **Pal Joey** Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:52 am

TheGreyGhost wrote:Now that you're thinking along my lines, and given that they're all pros, know the rules inside out, and you are resigned to NZ cheating and getting away with it, and are certain the Ockers would never think of cheating...why bother with a ref at all? Just give the whistle to Ritchie and he can ping you Aussies for those "accidental" fouls, and turn the same blind eye to NZ misdemeanours that the ref would?

Now you are really losing it TGG. Honestly, you have such a magnificent mind when it comes to interpretation...and extrapolation. idea

Enjoy the Crusaders win tonight and we look forward to reading some more gems from you - come what may. I'm sure you'll find something to talk about.

by welshjohn369 Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:37 am

Well the Reds did it against 'A REAL TEAM' hehehehehehe

Really prevented Genia from running the ball!! DOn't think so. :run1:

Tries for the Reds all outside the Crusaders 22, whic showed some cool back play.

I do not think the Crusaders have anything to complain about. They were beaten by the better team on the night.

Poor GG has run out of medication....psychotic ramblings of a bitter bitter man.

by emack2 Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:31 am

The Reds are worthy winners they earned the right by topping the log to
a home semi,final and a bye week.
The Crusaders have played 3 games in 3 weeks and crossed the globe twice.
They were the best two teams in the tournament,and today the Reds won on merit.
The Crusaders as feared played there final last week,this week they were`nt quite there.
History is vindicated Home sides win S15`s nearly every time you can only go so far on adrenalin before fatigue sets in.
Take nothing away from a great match,today the REDs had the energy to finish the job.As someone said in the week if it was close in the last 15 the reds would fancy there chances.
Cue crowing another NZ side choking,Australia will win 3Ns,meet and beat England in the final load of tirades.
Today a team without playing a single home game reached and came within 5 points of another Super title. Salute them too I doubt anyother club/provincial side would have done better or even as well.
This years workload seems manic in organization from a SH perspective in a RWC year.
An extended S15 finishes just 14 days before 3Ns start,then finishes 14 days before RWC starts.
The injury toll so far is horrendous,only 2 or 3 likely Bok starters are in the squad for the away leg of the 3Ns.
Lievremont saying he will probably field a B side in the All Blacks pool match to get a more favourable draw.
Seems teams are even devaluing RWC matches now.

by welshjohn369 Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:03 am

No choking by the Crusaders.

A profesional team full of All Blacks, excuses should not be made and as it was none were, it has been the supporters doing that.

A week should be enough to rest for a professional and playing three games in three weeks is kind of normal.

The merits of winning the S15 league has its benifits as the Reds have seen. Every team knows this too so if you don't want the travel do better in the games Smile

Travel should be no excuse.

The 'No home' game thing is all a little melodramatic. They are a provincial side and played many games in Nelson and Timaru which is part of the Province. Sure they did not play in Christchurch bit I would argue that a full Nelson is better than a 1/4 full Christchurch. I think Kiwi's are making too much of this.

by emack2 Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:40 am

WelshJohn,I understand you are an ex -patriot welshmen living in NZ.
You consider too much is made of teams or a team travelling across the world twice in 14 days.Across two time zones nothing,
That History of both S14?.5 tournaments and 3Ns show nearly exclusively by the top franchises home wins means nothing.
That only one side has won a Final of the Super comp.of shore.and that they should have done better.
With respect that is not overstating things that is flying in the face of History.
The Reds this year have without doubt been the best team in the tourney,and thoroughly deserved there win.
I openly state it,I stated they would win before the final qualifying round,I said it would be a Stormers versus Reds final,and a Reds win
THAT on the basis of history of this tournament,not what a professional team could or should.
Be able to do especially with players coming in from injury lacking match fitness.
You may not think this Crusaders has achieved anything this year,I beg to differ and I don`t think I am in a minority.

by aucklandlaurie Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:06 am

welshjohn
I think you are being a little short sighted to dismiss the lack of home games so lightly, yes they do get to play their home games in other parts of the north Island, but this is away from all their support structures,they dont get to sleep in their beds like playres and coaches of other teams do,and its probably only a minor point that they are away from their main fab base. I have not seen/heard any of the crusaders use it as an excuse,and if they did ,that could esily turned against them to look churlish.
Its unfair to say NZers are being melodramatic on this one,as the only other comparison I can make to this one is the huge sporting publicity given to the New Orleans Saints,when they found themselves without a home ground after Hurricane Katrina smashes the Superdome in 2005. ESPN and ABc sports broadcast gave it huge exposure. and they no way made it to the final of superbowl..,,,

by welshjohn369 Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:14 am

Where did I say that the Crusaders have not achieved anything?

I do not take interest in historic statistics per say. It is extremely dificult to win away anyway but thats the way it goes.

I imagine there will be a bunch of excuses from the Crusaders fans but as I say they lost fair and square, Well done Reds.

by welshjohn369 Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:21 am

Hang on !! Nelson and Timaru in the North Island? Do you jafa's ever get out of that city of yours?

I imagine the entire province is a hiuge fan base, Christchurch being the biggest. That said the stadium would have been a quarter full for most of the games and more for the play offs.

18,000 at Nelson in such a small stadium would generate more atmosphere than any 1/4 full International standard stadium.

by **Pal Joey** Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:30 am

I think he meant north of the island...

I'm not so sure it would have been better for the Crusaders to have played the final at Nelson if things had gone that way. There were barely 12-14,000 (if that) in the knockout match. I would rather they (would have) played at the new stadium in Dunedin (Forsyth-Barr) in the Otago heartland (!) or even at the caketin in Wellington. Those venues would have had better atmospheres than a capacity Trafalgar Park, I believe.

by **Pal Joey** Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:32 am

When is the Forsyth Barr up and running, by the way? Anyone know?

I hope it's finished on schedule - or is on track. Would be good to see a 'test' match there before the RWC starts.

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