a small consolation for Nadal

To all the gutted Nadal fans just want you guys to take heart that Nadal managed to beat Djokovic at Flushing Meadows before he exploded. Ask yourselves this, if someone a year ago said Nadal will win the US Open against Djokovic to complete the career slam set but will then have to lose the Wimbledon final to him a year later, would you take it? My bet is yes.

This is how I felt when Federer lost to Del Potro at the US Open 2009. I was gutted but then thought to myself how close Federer was to losing to the Argentine in the French Open semis, and I know and Federer knows what match he would have rather have won even though losing a slam final is hard to take.

Nadal and Djokovic I am sure are going to go on to battle in many grand slams, just like Federer and Nadal did. Nadal has the problem that Djokovic is a bad match up for him like Nadal is for Federer. I remember Jim Courier saying about Agassi and Sampras "Andre is a fantastic Tennis player, but tennis is all about match ups. Sampras is the best server and Agassi is the best returner, but Sampras holds the ball, he decides where to go Andre has to react, its a bad match up for him."

Nadals forehand is a devasting shot but Novak is able to take it away from him, Nadal is able to take away Federers forehand by going to the backhand and he eats up Federer's slice. However that is the same slice that I think causes Novak quite a few problems. There is a bit of Rock, Paper, Scissors going on in my opinion.

It is fascinating times but no player in the history of the sport was unbeatable in slam finals, they all had someone that hurt them. I think Borg did not like playing McEnroe and McEnroe did not like playing Lendl, and Lendl did not like playing Borg. That is why I am very surprised that people are starting to suggest a changing of the guard, Nadal is only 25 he has 10 slams and if you take out the fact he was unwell against Davydenko, injured against Ferrer and tired against Tsonga he hasnt lost a single match this season other than to Djokovic. Federer in 2006 lost only 5 times, 4 to Nadal and the other when he was extremely tired against Murray.

Lets hope Del Potro joins the party again and Murray sticks around and we can wait and see what next U-turn the game is going to take us in!

Yes, CAS I think this is a truely fascinating period at the top of the men's game. People are seeming to count out Nadal. I think he will find away to land his blows in this rivalry. But it must be hard for Rafa and many of his loyal fans in that for the first time there seems to be a guy that is just as bad a match up for him as he is for federer. This is going to make it that much harder for Nadal to dominate but he has still won a grandslam this year and some other big tournaments. However, it does seem like he needs to do something differently and find away to put Novak under pressure, he hasn't been able to answer the bell this year.

If Nadal wants to beat Djokovic, he needs to hit flatter and not the loopy FH.

Federer showed a flat FH is unreturnable at FO even by Djokovic

I agree. Nadal supporters should be very grateful Djokovic delayed his fine form until 2011 as otherwise Nadal's career slam may have been in doubt.

I too agree on the point of Federer/JMDP and the FO. Sure he would have held all 4 at once and won 4 in a row but it was more important now looking in hindsight that he pulled through that FO which he could have lost.

We need maybe another couple of guys too to add into the mix.

I for one expect Nadal to come back next year stronger. I still think he can defend his US Open crown. The better player won today and he really took the match to Nadal. He who dares wins and Djoko certainly did.

Let's hope the moon balling days are drawing to a close

I just can't wait for the Del Potro, Djokovic, Nadal and Murray battles that are on their way. I really hope Federer grabs a few more slams though, love him to go out with a bang like Sampras did

"I remember Jim Courier saying about Agassi and Sampras "Andre is a fantastic Tennis player, but tennis is all about match ups. Sampras is the best server and Agassi is the best returner, but Sampras holds the ball, he decides where to go Andre has to react, its a bad match up for him."

Nadals forehand is a devasting shot but Novak is able to take it away from him, Nadal is able to take away Federers forehand by going to the backhand and he eats up Federer's slice. However that is the same slice that I think causes Novak quite a few problems. There is a bit of Rock, Paper, Scissors going on in my opinion. "

Great stuff, been saying this for ages but some can't/won't listen.

I wish it was Rock Paper Scisors....but now I don;t think Federer can cope with any of them except when playing absolutely amazingly AND being a bit lucky.

Shoudl they introduce Babolat balls like at the FO in all other slams and tournaments, Federer would still be the best in my view but in todays conditions it's only a question of time before Murray catches him up too.

I do tend to agree with you, Tenez, the game has changed in a way that hasn't happened since the wooden raquets were superceded. That produced a lowed premium on hitting the ball in the very small sweet spot, and arguably created people like Becker.

I think John McEnroe is never credited with straddling the period of wood to graphite as much as he should be. Give a vintage John and Boris little wooden racquets and Boris would do well to get a set off him. Agassi would have been interesting to watch with a Dunlop Maxply.

But change is change; Federer has been around so long that it was inevitable he'd fall foul of the changes and the fact that younger men have a better chance to set themselves to new circumstances. It's what happens and I think he should be given huge credit because as he reaches 30 there he will be; #3, making late stages of Slams and the only man in 2011 to defeat Djokovic!!

I doubt it gtg, there's more problems for Nadal here than standing a bit wider will solve. Most fundamentally, Djokovic is not the slightest discomforted by Nadals loopy shots or his power, and neither does he find it physically difficult to compete with him; the reverse is true actually, Nadal has faded in every one of their matches this year.

bogbrush wrote:But change is change; Federer has been around so long that it was inevitable he'd fall foul of the changes and the fact that younger men have a better chance to set themselves to new circumstances. It's what happens and I think he should be given huge credit because as he reaches 30 there he will be; #3, making late stages of Slams and the only man in 2011 to defeat Djokovic!!

But I am pretty convinced they will speed up the game soon learning from the FO experience. They are constantly adjusting to players evolution and there has been a clear need to speed tennis up imo. It might come too late for Federer though.

Yes, I think you're right on both counts. They will have to watch the speeding up though, because serves and groundies are alreacy very fast and it could get silly.

My preference would be to look at the racquets and balls and stop making it easy to get great impact from ill-timed shots. Only in this way will players with variety have an advantage over ball bashing. It's a serious problem; a young John McEnroe would currently not be in the top 10.

I'd agree that in the two finals vs. Djoko over the last 9 months the one to win was the USO. Nobody can take Nadal's Career slam away from him and if he walked away tomorrow he has his place at the very top rung of the ladder.

In terms of slam wins I don't think he'll end up surpassing Federer or Sampras. I think he's maybe got 3 more years left as a slam winner - and almost certainly so at any slam away from RG. He's now won at least one slam every year for the last 7 years - an amazing achievement. In only 2 of those years (so far) has he won 2 or more slams. If he's going to get past Federer he's probably got to do that at least twice more, and for Sampras probably at least once more. He's been well ahead of Federer's progress so far, but unless he can pick up the USO, and at least 2 of the next 3 slams the mathematics of overhauling either Fed or Sampras will begin to run away from him quickly.

He won't see it that way, of course and I would not expect him too. But were I a supporter of his from now onwards I'd see any slam win away from RG as 'bunce' - a bit like the way I have seen any slam win at all for Federer after RG 2009 as bunce.

Well to stay ahead of Nadal he needs to do neither of those things, so I don't see your point. btw, at the USO he needs to defend a lesser position than Nadal.

In any case, the issue isn't about defending a shedload of points, it just comes down to maintaining his position over Nadal, which given what's gone on this year I can't see being a major problem.

graf_the_greatest wrote:Yes, but a lot of us thought that about Nadal in 2010. Nothing in tennis is permanent. Djokovic looks unassailable right now but a year on it may not be so easy.

And some of us knew better.

graf_the_greatest wrote:Nadal needs to stand more to the right on the deuce side of the court when receiving the Djokovic slice serve. Yes, he will open up the court and may allow Djokovic a few more aces or unreturnables down the T but this will make Djokovic''s job harder.

Djokovic is now the fitter version of an aging Davydenko. He can take the ball early and hit hard and flat, when needed. He also used the Lob very effectively against Nadal. It could be a lot of unreturnables on a faster court, perhaps not on slower clay.

graf_the_greatest wrote:Also, Nadal can improve the slice return keeping it lower and deeper which no one really likes.

Something that Federer has shown to be very effective against players, including Djokovic.

graf_the_greatest wrote:There's aways room for improvement and Nadal and Djokovic both understand this and are very good at doing so.

The sport as whole and players in it improve constantly. It is not just Nadal or Djokovic.

graf_the_greatest wrote:Yes, Nadal has 2000 points to defend at the USO but Djokovic will have a whole slew of points to defend come Jan-early July 2012.

Defending points requires much higher consistency than winning them in the first place.

Very interesting statement from McEnroe yesterday, calling Djokovic the 'elastic' man. Must be all the practice in swimming pools which became tennis courts.

bogbrush wrote:My preference would be to look at the racquets and balls and stop making it easy to get great impact from ill-timed shots. Only in this way will players with variety have an advantage over ball bashing. It's a serious problem; a young John McEnroe would currently not be in the top 10.

Strings!!!! That's the biggest problem. Natural gut was pacy but had limited spin power compared to strings like Luxilion. It is those (similar) strings and the players fitness that allowed the defensive players to actually be in a strong position when returning or more importantly when sent to the trameline or outside. It's used to be a disadvantage to be sent outside the court....now it's an advantage if you are fit enough. It is again those strings that pushed players to work on their physique instead of their shot making ability.

Before 2000 when you were pushed in the trame line or outside, you were in trouble cause you had to hit the perfect shot. That is a flat shot to get enough pace but not too hard so it stayed in the court (a thin window that required real talent). Now being pushed outside the court becomes an advantage. The string are powerful enough to whack the ball safely and giving it enough loop to make sure it clears the net and falls within the court.

You see it best on that first point of this clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK3y7gpX2kQ

The passing from Nadal with pre-2000 strings woudl have been very difficult, an extremely risky shot as Nadal woudl have been obliged to hit flatter just above the net and soft enough so it landed in the short portion court available.

I however don't think they can change the strings back to natural gut...but by providing hard balls like babolat we can decrease the effect of todays strings.

bogbrush wrote:

graf_the_greatest wrote:Yes, but a lot of us thought that about Nadal in 2010. Nothing in tennis is permanent. Djokovic looks unassailable right now but a year on it may not be so easy.

And some of us knew better.

LOL! Certainly. I have said it enough times that 2010 was an odd years in terms of top players being injured or off form giving Nadal many easy finals!

bogbrush wrote:

graf_the_greatest wrote:Yes, but a lot of us thought that about Nadal in 2010. Nothing in tennis is permanent. Djokovic looks unassailable right now but a year on it may not be so easy.

And some of us knew better.

If you have a favourite player, this is the first thing to remember, viz., the ephemeral nature of being at the Top. Some can stay at the top longer than others, but Newton (and others were correct). What goes up must come down.