606v2 picks the England World Cup squad: hookers

Martin Johnson World Cup training squad announcement a couple of weeks ago got us all talking about who should be there/shouldn't be there/should go to the World Cup/shouldn't go to the World Cup etc. Now that the heat has died down a little bit and the squad has had a bit of time to sink in, who do we think should make the final 30? Over the next few weeks I'll post a series of polls so that we can select a 30 man World Cup squad.

Dan Cole, Alex Corbisiero, Andrew Sheridan and Matt Stevens have made it as the four props, the voting wasn't even close.

Next up is the hookers. The options in Martin Johnson's squad are: George Chuter, Dylan Hartley, Lee Mears and Steve Thompson. Multiple voting is allowed. Vote above for the hookers that you think should make it.

Squad selection criteria: 3 hookers will be selected. Simples.

The first two players pick themselves, Dylan Hartley and Steve Thompson but the final one is a bit of a crutch. People have defended the choice of Chuter but I just don't think he is up to it. My Leicester supporting friends are even placing question marks over him at club level. I was a big fan of Mears a few years ago and I still think he is a decent impact sub but would you trust him in a vital scrum? I'm not so sure.

I chose:

Hartley
Thompson
Mears

I think we might have yet another problem position after the WC considering the age of three of the 'incumbents' are in their 30’s; Mears (32), Chuter (34) and Steve Thompson (33).

Chuter is the consistent choice, but I'm not sure how he's been able to stay in the EPS so long! I can just about understand why Johnson dropped Mears when he did (I wouldn't have) but I thought that was the end of his International career, but now he's back.

Paice can consider himself unlucky to have not made the training squad, and should come into full England reckoning in 2012. Joe Gray is another option, but I think we might be able to get a few more miles out of Mears and Thompson at International level, so it might not immediately become a problem.

Better than the last World Cup. We had Regen as first choice.

Yeah,
But Regan ws there to annoy the other team, and he was funny. That gets him points????? OK, maybe not. But I took a shot to defend him.

Thing is, I’m sick of ‘consistent’/ ‘experienced’ keeping better players out of the team. Obviously you don’t want to take somebody to the World Cup, but experience is being cited too often ahead of talent.

Our centres are a case in point and it seems to me that the hooking position could go the same way. Why not include somebody like Joe Gray instead of Chuter? He would be fourth choice and on injury standby, but could gain valuable experience in the squad. Also if there was a spectacular run of injuries he’d be more the useful back up to one of the first choicers. His set pieces is very strong and he is excellent around the park.

Joe Gray is probably a bit raw yet, but is coming on nicely. The way he is going, he should be in the mix after the RWC. I would think he would be next in line as injury cover. David Paice is a bit older and has more mileage, though he played real well this season. I would still prefer Gray as injury cover because I like his upside.

Can anyone think of any other hooker potentially in the mix?

Cumbrian,
Looks like we posted the same idea at the same time. I think Gray has a real future. Even training with, and being around, the RWC squad would be good for him.

Joe Gray only forced his way in as 1st choice this season. what's better for his development? Getting a good pre-season and get stuck in getting game time or sitting on the bench (or not even) with the world cup squad?

Hartley is there as first choice and Thompson is the bench player. These may swap round. Anyone else taken will be their to take the bench spot in case of injury. That's it. Ideally it will be someone who knows the calls and will fit it quickly.

After the World Cup Thomson will fit in the Chuter role, HArtley will be reasonably experienced and we can fit in a new face to learn the ropes. We can very easily have a front row with an average age of 23 in the WC. There's no need to load the team down with inexperience.

I'm not convinced that it's the hooker that will be in any way a tourney changer amongst these guys. But I omitted Chuter.

The arguments will be more sensitive in every other position than #2.

Particularly 6, 7, 8, 9, 12 and 13.

Port,

I agree completely.
These will be some real difficult decisions for England management, and possibly some good discussion here. The good news is the back row is a position of strength. The centres, well, er, not so much.

doctor_grey wrote:Joe Gray is probably a bit raw yet, but is coming on nicely. The way he is going, he should be in the mix after the RWC. I would think he would be next in line as injury cover. David Paice is a bit older and has more mileage, though he played real well this season. I would still prefer Gray as injury cover because I like his upside.

Can anyone think of any other hooker potentially in the mix?

Great minds eh?

It depends upon how much you value experience and or talent and whether he physical size matters to you. Aside from the ones mentioned (Paice and Gray);

Tom Lindsay (Wasps): 6ft 3in & 19st 9lb (23) is a complete wrecking ball with the ball in hand and is really effective around the pitch. Unfortunately his lineout throwing is very inaccurate. He is young for a no.2 and if he sorts this out, I think he could be a surprise England option.

Rob Webber (Wasps): 6ft & 16st 7lb (24) He is considered a steadier hooker, has some captaincy experience. Injured worryingly often.

Bret Sharman (Northampton) 6ft 0in & 16st 7lb (24)

A year ago I would have said Jamie George but since Saracens have decided to supplement Britz with John Smit and I don’t think he is going to be getting the game time he needs. This is very disappointing because to me, George looked like the best young hooking prospect I’ve seen in a very long time.

The odd ball selection… Watch out for Tom Youngs (brother of Ben) who will be turning out for Leicester next year. He was decent centre until his early twenties, but was told he would not make it to the top in that position. At just under 6ft and 16stone he was invited to try out as hooker. He is still only 24 and has become accomplished in the position by all accounts. I’m really looking forward to seeing how he goes tbh.

There are other excellent younger players like Korree Britton and mike Haywood but I wouldn’t expect anything from them for a while.

Cumbrian, Great minds? Of course!
I am not a size is everything guy, and especially at Hooker. I saw Sharman a bit this season, and would not want him in NZ. I saw Webber a few times, and saw some good play and some not so good. For the life of me, I can't recall if I saw Lindsay or not. But for the RWC looks like England are set at Hooker, expecially if they listen to us. It will be interesting to see how some of these younfer players develop in 2012, eh?

I think we'll have Hartley, Thompson and Mears in our Six Nations 2012 squads (injuries allowing) and then Johnson will take a look at a couple of options in the Saxons. We'll then take a fourth hooker on an extended tour of South Africa and whoever gets that spot can then compete for a 2012/13 EPS place. I don't think we'll see changes immediately.

EDIT: This vote is all over bar the shouting. I'll leave it for a little while, but post the next poll later tonight.

i think webber was unfortunate to be playing in a poor wasps team this year, it certainly didnt do his england prospects much good.

i am a big fan of mears, he is the best ball carrying option in this position, I feel he offers different attributes to the other hookers available.

I wouldnt take chuter. I think he would be a fine replacement to bring on if england are ahead but say england were down at halftime, not sure i would have the faith in Chuter to come on and change the game.

Am surprised to see George Chuter so far behind Lee Mears ?

I picked Mears but it'll be Chuter. The third Hooker isn't there for options. They're there in case of injury. The only way Mears would be taken is if Thompson fills the spare option. But he's second choice so doubt it'll happen.