Haye - Mission Accomplished?

David Haye has made a fool of himself over the last few weeks, no doubt about that. All the posturing, the comments, the T-shirts, the insults counted for nothing when he could step up to the plate, broken toe or no broken toe.

That said, he has remained consistant in that he wants to retire from Boxing on his 31st birthday. So, he turns pro as a boxer after a some good and bad aspects of his amateur days. He realises he's not quite big enough to be a heavyweight and starts at crusier, knocking out a bunch of fighters and making a name for himself. He comes accross grizzled veteran Thompson and runs out of gas. He learns from this and goes on to unify the cruiser division. Whilst waiting for the Mormeck fight, he pops up to heavyweight and destroys a highly-ranked contender inside a round. He unifies, then goes on to destroy Maccarinelli for the WBO belt as well. He knows he can cut it at heavy, at least in the contender stakes so then moves up and beats up Barrett in a wild affair. As soon as he's done this he starts calling out the big names in the business, namely the Klitschkos. They dismiss him. He starts the posturing, the t-shirt thing, the insults, anything to get exposure. People start to get interested. He signs to fight Valuev and wins in a hit and run affair. He now has a belt to bargain with. Things start simmering nicely and he dispatches Ruiz who at least came to fight despite being at the end of his career. The K bros start taking notice more, as does the public. He then destroys Harrison in a one-sided money-making affair, and finally signs to fight Wlad and we all know what happened there.

Now, proud man that he is, he has still made multi-millions of finest English pounds and is likely to retire from the sport with all his faculties (maybe not his little toe) intact. If he'd stayed at Cruiser he'd be probably £30million worse off when you take into account all the promotional stuff, the Magazine and the endorsements. If we take the boxing achievements out of this, he has done a world of good for his bank balance and his family's future so in that sense he has done really well. And as for the boxing, he unified one division and won a WBA strap at heavyweight. Not many people do that, so it's not too much to be ashamed of.

His main objective was to generate as much interest as possible to make the most money possible. He has achieved that, if nothing else. Although he goes on about his "legacy" I think he knew he was only ever going to beat Wlad with a lucky punch...

Never been too sold on the idea of a lucky punch myself. If you throw a punch intending to knock someone out, and it does, well how is that lucky?

My own opinion is that Haye just got caught in the same trap nearly everyone does against Wlad. His style is one dimensional and completely predictable. So you know what to expect. From the outside its easy to think you have a chance against a guy who just jabs away. Once in the ring though it dawns on the opponents that being jabbed hurts alot, you cant find range, cant mount your own attacks and basically just get shut out. I honestly think Haye believed he could win but he found that implementing his plan was just too difficult and went into survival mode.

Perhaps not 'mission accomplished' in his own head, but I think you're right in the sense that saturday night, unfortunately, pretty much showed us that Haye has gone absolutely as far as he can as a fighter. Certainly, given his crossover appeal and the fact that he's been involved in four very lucrative Heavyweight title bouts on pay-per-view, I think we can safely say that the money side of things has been taken care of.

The problem is, I don't think his ego is going to allow him to rebuild and, in the Heavyweight title scheme of things, start again from scratch. His performance on saturday, in reality, was no better than the likes of Ibragimov, Peter or Chambers managed against Wladimir; and yet in Haye's mind, he's in a totally different league to these men. But unless Wladimir (or Vitali) are feeling incredibly generous, these are exactly the kind of men Haye is going to have to engage with if he has any aspirations of working himself back in to Heavyweight contention.

Personally, I think he may be well advised to call it quits as he planned. I don't see why a rematch is needed, and more to the point I can't for the life of me see what Haye could do any differently if it did materialize.

Chris, I disagree there mate. He was certainly better than the other guys in terms of skill, he was pretty slick and rarely got caught cleanly, whereas the other guys were mere punching bags moving in straight lines. He made Wlad miss, but failed to make him pay.

His issue however was workrate, much too low to win a fight against Wladimir.

Fists of Fury wrote:Chris, I disagree there mate. He was certainly better than the other guys in terms of skill, he was pretty slick and rarely got caught cleanly, whereas the other guys were mere punching bags moving in straight lines. He made Wlad miss, but failed to make him pay.

His issue however was workrate, much too low to win a fight against Wladimir.

Maybe he looked a little more slick, but I'm sorry, I can't be anything other than massively disappointed with Haye's performance. Peter certainly made more of an effort to turn the tide, whereas Haye went in to survival mode in the second half of the fight. His head movement meant that he avoided a few more jabs than Ibragimov managed, but honestly, I really don't think his performance was that much better. You're probably right that he was better by a small margin, but essentially he really didn't do anything to distinguish himself from the 'fat bums' (as he himself has put it) that Wladimir has been doing away with over the last few years. He's in the same boat as them now, for my money.

Fists of Fury wrote:Chris, I disagree there mate. He was certainly better than the other guys in terms of skill, he was pretty slick and rarely got caught cleanly, whereas the other guys were mere punching bags moving in straight lines. He made Wlad miss, but failed to make him pay.

His issue however was workrate, much too low to win a fight against Wladimir.

Agree. He even took a few fairly full-blooded shots too without buckling. Not sure how much difference the toe made, although I've heard worse excuses. Still found Wlad boring in the extreme, and his habit of hanging on and leaning is just depressing; it highlights an athletic heavyweight who for all his proficiency still feels the need to use dull and unsportsmanlike tricks which he shouldn't need.

Not sure if anyone can dig up the fight stats but from what I remeber off the top of my head, Wlad landed something like 40% success. Thats much bigger than I expected from the supposedly much quicker and slicker Haye. I expected Wlad to miss alot more but still just bank the rounds. Even if the jab is not particularly accurate it still denies the opponent the chance to get their own offence going which is where Haye struggled. But I still think Wlad landed with far more success than most predicted.

Would agree with Chris that Haye pretty falls into the same bracket as the Ibragimovs and Peters unless hes inclined to beat them himself to prove otherwise. In terms of overall success I dont think he acheived much more than those guys. It was pretty much a shut out and Wlad was rarely if ever troubled.

I have always felt that Wlads opponents have unfairly been labelled bums and paycheck merchants in most cases and I wouldnt extend that criticism to Haye obviously. But if people are going to continue with that belief then I dont see why Haye should be absolved when he did nothing more than those guys other than survive for 12 rounds.

It is hard to know what to make of the toe. Yes it would be sore and yes it could have an impact on the performance but by getting in the ring you are agreeing you are good to go.

I reckon they might use the toe excuse as a valid reason for a rematch. Financially it will make both guys a stack of money and it will still generate interest.

Haye needs at least one top level win for me to have any hopes of a rematch. In boxing things change fast on the back of a single fight but at present a toe injury is not valid reasons for a rematch on the back of a one sided fight and looks a bit like sour grapes from Haye.

However if he went and knocked out someone like Povetkin in style then suddenly the public, especially British, might start buying into the idea his toe was a big part of the loss and get interested in the fight again. But right now? I dont really know if it would sell well at all.

40% success rate takes into account the glancing shots though, and I'd be prepared to bet that a high percentage of that 40% were from glancing blows.

Fists of Fury wrote:40% success rate takes into account the glancing shots though, and I'd be prepared to bet that a high percentage of that 40% were from glancing blows.

Perhaps so. I dont think Haye was ever really in danger of being stoppd. But glancing blows or otherwise are still scoring shots. I thought Haye would be able to maintain distance a bit better. When a fighter goes into survival mode the dynamics of the fight change. Wlad is not a finisher at all so once Haye decided to just last 12 then the writing was on the wall. I think most thought he would go for it a bit more increasing the odds of a stoppage either way.

I think the 'Mission Accomplished' is rubbish in my opinion. I decided to watch Champions Forever this morning and it makes you realise. For all the money, fame, etc...a real warrior goes out there to beat the other man and become Heavyweight Champion of the World. If he doesnt he is devastated

This attitude of "yeah il go in give it my best, if I dont succeed well iv made a few bucks and now il retire and become an actor". You just cant imagine your Ali, Fraziers, Foremans saying this back then. If you want to to take a shot, make some bucks and then become an actor then thats fine. Me personally I prefere boxers to be warriors rather than celebrities. Its this 'I want to be the greatest fighter in the world but keep my looks intact, make as much easy money as possible and then retire' is the very reason Mayweather v Pacman is not happening

Steffan wrote:You just cant imagine your Ali, Fraziers, Foremans saying this back then.

Muhammad Ali - Played 'Gideon Jackson' in 'Freedom Road'

Joe Frazier - Played 'Himself' in 'Rocky'

George Foreman - Starring role in the build up on Saturday.

Union Cane wrote:

Steffan wrote:You just cant imagine your Ali, Fraziers, Foremans saying this back then.

Muhammad Ali - Played 'Gideon Jackson' in 'Freedom Road'

Joe Frazier - Played 'Himself' in 'Rocky'

George Foreman - Starring role in the build up on Saturday.

I never said there is anything wrong with being in films or being a celeb. All I said is I prefere them to be a boxer and warrior first. Haye seems to have settled for this celeb role far too quickly for my liking and as I say its not just him who does it Floyd is the same. Frank was mocked for doing pantomine but at least he kept on trying and finally won the belt after beating McCall

They're all at it.

Cor blimey geezer!