Welsh World Cup Squad - Scrum Halfs

This will hopefully be a bit contentious. There are a number of players that should realistically be fighting for this spot, the selectors see it differently to the fans.

Peel and Phillips have masses of experience and Gatland values that massively. But neither have shown great form. Phillips has been in the press for all the wrong reasons and hasnt had an edge, a sparkle or a touch of magic for a long time now, maybe since the Lions tour to SA in 2009. Peel never recaptured the form of 2005, though he does show it in glimpses many think he is past his best. Plus moving to England seems to have been an awful decision, out of contention too often he cant go on training camps because of ridiculous legislation regarding English clubs. Enough said debate that somewhere else.

There is a camp that rate Rees, he has a quick service, but to be honest he has nothing else, he has no vision, no game management he just moves ball on. Makes the odd break but I personally have never though he was anywhere near international class. Wayne Evans would be a better alternative in many peoples views, much more rounded player who has all the skills, just maybe lacks a bit of physicality and bite.

The youngsters...!

We are blessed with a number of good prospects. Tavis Knoyle leading the way as first choice scrum half at the scarlets for the last 18 months after displacing former Wales scrum half Martin Roberts. LLoyd Willams shows a hell of a lot of talent and surely will replace Rees at the Blues this season, could have done more this season if it wasnt for injury keeping him out of the game for a few months. Rhys Webb came through at the Ospreys during the Six nations and held off Mike Phillips as starting scrum half, a great range of skills and a good vision.

We are probably taking three scrum halfs to the RWC

Richie Rees (Blues) 9 Caps 5 Points

Lloyd Williams (Blues) 0 Caps

Tavis Knoyle, (Scarlets) 3 Caps (0 Points)

Michael Phillips (Bayonne) 52 Caps (26 Points) Lions 3 Caps (5 Points)

Dwayne Peel (Sale) 76 Caps (25 Points) Lions 3 Caps

Wayne Evans (Dragons) 0 Caps

Rhys Webb (Ospreys) 0 Caps

Dwayne, Tavis and Lloyd for me. I know Phillips could be useful against the physical sides in our group, but I think our best bet against them is the forwrads really contesting and then us getting really quick ball. Phillips can't give us that right now. I know we can fall in to the trap of 'oh but we need a physical scrum half' but I don't think that's true anymore, so it may be a risk leaving Phillips at home, but I think we should.

I agree with your thoughts. It is a brave decision, and I was erring on experience as a reason for taking phillips over physicality.

He has seen it all before and wont be intimidated as someone like Lloyd or Knoyle may be should they have to start in a very big match.

first and foremost we need good, quick service. that is why, for me, rees must start.

phillips should be used off the bench in the last quater to try and bust his way through a tiring opposition back row.

peel should go as 3rd choice. his experience will help him step up should the team require him to.

True Maes, but then that raises the issue of why our youngsters haven't been given a chance to get the experience needed when Phillips has been so out of form. And for experience that's why I put Peel in there. I don't think he's been playing at his best but he knows what it takes to play at this level and he's been to a world cup before.

The argument of experience at World Cups does make a big case for Peel, not that he has had much luck at the World cup.

He played in 2003 and 2007.

I've gone Rees, Phillips and Knoyle. I think Phillips is in the Gareth Cooper role now where Gatland won't drop him no matter what. I don't think Peel will go after another round of PRL/WRU wrangling.

Risca Rev wrote:I've gone Rees, Phillips and Knoyle. I think Phillips is in the Gareth Cooper role now where Gatland won't drop him no matter what. I don't think Peel will go after another round of PRL/WRU wrangling.

I dont want to get in to a debate about the PRL...!

Interesting choices though.

I have noticed how highly many of you rate Rees, and as I said in the OP, I do not see it. Good pass, clears ball, and to a degree that is a great deal of what we need. But, we need a guy who can read the game well and Rees can not. He is the welsh equivilent of Peter Stringer to me, and if Ireland had of had as many scrum halfs as our vertically challenged rugby mad nation has produced, then Stringer would have only have had as many Caps as Rees has now.

Richie Rees isn't brilliant but he's the best we've got at the minute - if Rhys Webb and maybe Lloyd Williams had another season of rugby under their belts it might be different. In this season's Blues v Scarlets match he made Tavis Knoyle look very naive.

Another one for the future is Gareth Davies at the Scarlets.

do you think so Lucky?

The Scarlets out played the Blues in both matches this season and I can't recall Tavis looking any the worse than Rees, but that might just be my Scarlet tinted view.

I wouldn't take Rees just because he hasn't had the game time, and even from what he has played this season, I've been more impressed with Lloyd Williams this season.

It must be your Scarlet tinted view, Dreamer!

No, my memory of the match is that Richie Rees showed Tavis Knoyle how it was done.

which one, the one at CCS or at Y Parc? actually I don't know why I'm bothering asking, I can't remember either very clearly to actually recall if either scrum half outplayed the other, I just remember that the Scarlets won!

Luckless - didn't Richie whinge that Tav did a deliberate knock on to the ref, and then get carded for doing it himself a few moments later at the CCS? I guess he 'showed Tavis Knoyle how it was done'

To be honest there is not much to chose between Knoyle or Rees. They both have some bad flaws. Richie Rees is more of the mythering gobby scrum half, and Knoyle is more of a physical lump scrum half. That is why i voted Rees, Knoyle, and Williams (the fast sniping scrum half) for ballence

The match at CCS. I don't remember that much about the game either - I couldn't remember who'd won! - but that's my abiding memory of it.

Oh, I don't know. Maybe I dreamed the whole thing.

I am sorry but Richie Rees is not half the player Tavis Knoyle is. Knoyle outplayed Rees in both matches this year. Particularly the bonus point 38 - 23 win at PYS.

the 10- 16 win at the CCS knoyle was my man of the match, putting iestyn thomas under the posts and making some superb breaks. Rees didnt do much other than get carded.

Well so far Tavis Knoyle and Mike Phillips are looking like who we want by voting. With Dwayne Peel and Richie Rees tied together.

A few more votes before we can call this complete.

I'm doubting my own memory now! Nurse!

luckless_pedestrian wrote:I'm doubting my own memory now! Nurse!

Knoyle did take a dip in form during the Six Nations period, where he was released to bench for the Scarlets a couple of times, I would put this down to not playing regularly more than lack of skill because in my opinion he was the form Welsh Qualified Scrumhalf of the season, closely followed by Lloyd Williams and Rhys Webb.

Williams had an injury that kept him off the fields for a few months, Webb was only selected at the second half of the season. Both will hopefully be starting choice nones at their regions for next year and should prove very handy doing so...

Great to have three such young and talented players vying for one spot.

Phillips : too easy to work out and not making as great an impact than he used to. Of course if he hits some better form then things might be different.

So Richie Rees for me at present.

Looks like Phillips, Knoyle and Peel with Rees as a stand by player.

Part of me is hoping Phillips cpmes good but Knoyle or Rees to start at the mo

oh dear, it looks like I selected halfbacks in a post too early...

Anyone except Phillips, please! He's always been a bully who gets swatted by superior players - of whom there are many! He had one good series for the Lions and has lived off that reputation ever since. An awful scrum half and a truly abysmal personal attitude.

Rees then Peel then Knoyle - Williams and Webb will have their day soon.

peel for me then rees than either knoyle or phillips (neither are good passers and don't suit a 15 man game that would be the best game plan for wales)

anyhow we all know phillips will start with gats in charge

For me it is Phillips for what he can do in the big games, Rees to add momentum and Knoyle for recent form but there is nothing between the other young guys including Knoyle, which is good. I watched the Blues game at Cardiff and Rees outplayed Knoyle but I think that was good for Knoyle's experience. I can't see Peel being picked, his time was 2005. As stated, the young players need another season, probably the most experienced is W Evans but has not been given a chance.

Dont even understand why Williams is even in the poll.
He was only involved in 11 games last season for the Blues, playing only when Rees was unavailable and always warmed the bench for Rees when both were available. Again, when both were available at the end of last season it was Rees who was selected at 9.
Williams has only played 10 MINS of H/Cup rugby.
The kid might be good to be an internatinal, but not yet.
When he can command a starting spot at his region, that could help his cause, but not yet.
Wayne Evans deserves to be there before Williams considering the Amount of games he has played in.
Perhaps the selection will be based on who you know rather than what you know.
Just to confirm!
http://www.cardiffblues.com/rugby/blues_squad.php?player=62136&includeref=dynamic

Janecory wrote:Dont even understand why Williams is even in the poll.
He was only involved in 11 games last season for the Blues, playing only when Rees was unavailable and always warmed the bench for Rees when both were available. Again, when both were available at the end of last season it was Rees who was selected at 9.
Williams has only played 10 MINS of H/Cup rugby.
The kid might be good to be an internatinal, but not yet.
When he can command a starting spot at his region, that could help his cause, but not yet.
Wayne Evans deserves to be there before Williams considering the Amount of games he has played in.
Perhaps the selection will be based on who you know rather than what you know.
Just to confirm!
http://www.cardiffblues.com/rugby/blues_squad.php?player=62136&includeref=dynamic

^^^^^^^^
beware. opinions!

good first post, jane

williams was called up to the welsh squad recently evans wasn;t. Like it or not (and i rate both of them) that would suggest in gatland and the coaches eyes williams is ahead of evans, Therefore it is right he is in the poll ahead of evans

dogtooth wrote:

Janecory wrote:Dont even understand why Williams is even in the poll.
He was only involved in 11 games last season for the Blues, playing only when Rees was unavailable and always warmed the bench for Rees when both were available. Again, when both were available at the end of last season it was Rees who was selected at 9.
Williams has only played 10 MINS of H/Cup rugby.
The kid might be good to be an internatinal, but not yet.
When he can command a starting spot at his region, that could help his cause, but not yet.
Wayne Evans deserves to be there before Williams considering the Amount of games he has played in.
Perhaps the selection will be based on who you know rather than what you know.
Just to confirm!
http://www.cardiffblues.com/rugby/blues_squad.php?player=62136&includeref=dynamic

^^^^^^^^
beware. opinions!

good first post, jane

I think if you show the talent, and almost everyone bar our friend above has recognised the talent Lloyd williams has, then he should be in consideration.

It is great that we have three very talented scrum halves in Williams, Knoyle and Webb all vying for recognition.

I dont think Williams will be second fiddle to Rees next league start, if it wasnt for injury in the middle of the season last, he would surely have taken Rees' jersey.

maestegmafia wrote:

dogtooth wrote:

Janecory wrote:Dont even understand why Williams is even in the poll.
He was only involved in 11 games last season for the Blues, playing only when Rees was unavailable and always warmed the bench for Rees when both were available. Again, when both were available at the end of last season it was Rees who was selected at 9.
Williams has only played 10 MINS of H/Cup rugby.
The kid might be good to be an internatinal, but not yet.
When he can command a starting spot at his region, that could help his cause, but not yet.
Wayne Evans deserves to be there before Williams considering the Amount of games he has played in.
Perhaps the selection will be based on who you know rather than what you know.
Just to confirm!
http://www.cardiffblues.com/rugby/blues_squad.php?player=62136&includeref=dynamic

^^^^^^^^
beware. opinions!

good first post, jane

I think if you show the talent, and almost everyone bar our friend above has recognised the talent Lloyd williams has, then he should be in consideration.

It is great that we have three very talented scrum halves in Williams, Knoyle and Webb all vying for recognition.

I dont think Williams will be second fiddle to Rees next league start, if it wasnt for injury in the middle of the season last, he would surely have taken Rees' jersey.

What talent has Williams showed ?When and where if it was that good.
He hasnt played in any big games as of yet, oh yes, i keep forgetting his 10 MINS CAMEO in a H/CUP match.
How do you know Williams wont be second fiddle AGAIN to Rees next season ?
Rees and Williams came back for the Ospreys game near end of the season,when both were fit, and available for the run-in and Williams hardly played, just as he did earlier in the season.
Injury was nothing to do with it, because both were out of action the same time.
The kid is still learning, dont go over the top quite yet, until he proves himself !
That he has a lot to do of, with Rees at the helm, he wont lie down easy, just ask Jason Spice and Gareth Cooper.

Saw a clip of the 2008 Scarlets defeat of Munster in the HC QF yesterday and Peel was imperious. How has it come to this?

"Lloyd Williams (Blues) 0 Caps"

This is incorrect maes. He scored two tries in the world cup. He'll have something like 6 caps or thereabouts I'm guessing. As for Phillips, he was excellent going into and during the World Cup, which has all been since the last Lions tour.

Atm I'm going to say Phillps, Williams and Webb for honours.

Morgannwg this thread was created before the WC - in Jun I think - it's Glas reviving threads to highlight the difference in the way people thought before and after the WC and summer warm-up games.

I still say Peel has loads to offer. Shouldn't one of the Region sign him back?

I think they have better youngsters coming through - it's unfortunate as I always liked Peel and thought he had a lot to offer but he's been stuck at Sale for too long and the few chances he's had for Wales he hasn't looked great - The Scarlets have Knoyle (who will get better) and a very promising G Davies, Ospreys have Webb, the Blues have L Williams and Rees as a back up and another youngster whose name escapes me, and the dragons have W Evans.

Peel is useless.

Morgannwg wrote:Peel is useless.

Troll

Morgannwg wrote:Peel is useless.

Is that your opine now or from before the world cup when this was written?

Before the world cup and my mind is still the same.

Morgannwg wrote:Before the world cup and my mind is still the same.

When was the last time you actually watched him play?

The last time he donned the MS pitch.

So your basing your opinion on him as a player when the last time he played in the MS was 2009. Wow

It was 2011 actually . Do you feel silly now because you thought I was a troll?

My bad. Didn't really remember because they were 2 matches and both times he came off the bench when were already losing. Anyway we should look at now because hes being playing really well for Sale, infact hes been the main reason they've played so well. But you wont agree with me so whats the point of arguing.

Well if you consider 5th place good when the usual big guns were without their best players during the first few weeks due to the world cup... How do you know anyway, I don't remember many Sale games being televised?

Im a Sale fan and i watch all the games that i can. Hes played well and other aviva prem fans have said so as well.

Honestly can't see Peel coming into the reckoning anymore now, Phillips will still be number 1 IMO but other than that Gatland will stick with Williams and Knoyle.

1: Mike Phillips
2: Lloyd Williams
3: Rhys Webb

would be my choice for the 6N.

Seeing how the 'injury' fiasco played out I don't think he will be selected by Gatland unless he moves to a region.