Scottish Open

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A little £10 on GMac at 20/1....that will do nicely.

to create such a hypothetical situation is ridiculous!
hitting teeshots and iron shots in links golf is completely different than in parkland golf. hitting low draws off the tee, landing iron shots 20 yards short of the green.... playing iron shots from the fairway with the ball 2 feet above you! etc.
its not all about pointing yourself in the direction of the hole and hitting the same shot over and over again as if you were on the range or at the John Deere Classic!

hend085 wrote:to create such a hypothetical situation is ridiculous!
hitting teeshots and iron shots in links golf is completely different than in parkland golf. hitting low draws off the tee, landing iron shots 20 yards short of the green.... playing iron shots from the fairway with the ball 2 feet above you! etc.
its not all about pointing yourself in the direction of the hole and hitting the same shot over and over again as if you were on the range or at the John Deere Classic!

Watch and count how many iron shots are deliberately landed 20 yards short this week and next (excepting par 5s, and that happens week in week out too) and how many low draws the winner hits off of tees. I bet you don't run out of fingers, never mind toes. The wind simply isn't that much of a factor, and the greens will hold. As for sidehill lies, it's not like they don't happen on hilly inland courses, and they don't come much hillier than ANGC.

This is a comment from Westy yesterday after his round -

"I did some nice work on the range last week, working on the ball flight in the wind. I couldn't have hit some of those shots a few weeks ago."

Now clearly he sees that working a different ball flight is important for links golf. That said I agree that in theory any pro should be able to work this part of the game out but how many will as they wont have Westwoods links experience?

I find that incredible really, surely this guy must have played plenty of links courses in his time, that is just poor preperation if you ask me, very poor!

JDandfries wrote:I find that incredible really, surely this guy must have played plenty of links courses in his time, that is just poor preperation if you ask me, very poor!

Eh? poor that he did it the week before he needed it or poor that he needed to work on it? If it's the latter, how many of them can just pull a reliable, low flight out at will do you suppose? If it's the former, when would you suggest?

Diggers wrote:This is a comment from Westy yesterday after his round -

"I did some nice work on the range last week, working on the ball flight in the wind. I couldn't have hit some of those shots a few weeks ago."

Now clearly he sees that working a different ball flight is important for links golf. That said I agree that in theory any pro should be able to work this part of the game out but how many will as they wont have Westwoods links experience?

He sees a different ball flight as important for windy conditions. Should they arise this week or next, which as I say is not always the case even at the seaside, I'm sure all of the top players will have prepared in similar fashion regardless of which side of the atlantic they come from.

I think he is saying personally he is preparing specifically for the next 2 weeks, we know he is doing it as he has said he is, we can only assume other will or wont.
I take that as he does see links golf as requiring different skills, clearly it could be windy anywhere at the time but he obviously believes the next 2 weeks is where he needs those shots specifically...on links courses.
To be fair I do take many of your points which are well made, but overall I'd still say there were differences and that this gives an advantage GB players should have made more of in the past....so I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Smithers.....

the way it came accross when he said ' I wouldn't have been able to hit those shots a week ago' sounds to me like he is saying he couldn't hit them, like this was teh first time he had!!

Surely that can't be the case or have I mis-interprated how he said it?.

Of course he is right to practise a few knock down shots the week before, that is ideal, but I can't belive 'he couldnt have hit them a week ago!

It just goes to show how much of a bloomin' genius he is, if he can hit low shots with them Pings!

JDandfries wrote:Smithers.....

the way it came accross when he said ' I wouldn't have been able to hit those shots a week ago' sounds to me like he is saying he couldn't hit them, like this was teh first time he had!!

Surely that can't be the case or have I mis-interprated how he said it?.

Of course he is right to practise a few knock down shots the week before, that is ideal, but I can't belive 'he couldnt have hit them a week ago!

I take that to mean 'I couldn't have confidently, repeatedly hit that type of shot at will' rather than 'I was entirely incapable of altering my ball flight'. But I can see how it might be interpreted as his having acquired a new skill.

Diggers wrote:I think he is saying personally he is preparing specifically for the next 2 weeks, we know he is doing it as he has said he is, we can only assume other will or wont.
I take that as he does see links golf as requiring different skills, clearly it could be windy anywhere at the time but he obviously believes the next 2 weeks is where he needs those shots specifically...on links courses.
To be fair I do take many of your points which are well made, but overall I'd still say there were differences and that this gives an advantage GB players should have made more of in the past....so I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

One word for you Diggers - Texas.

Scotland and Texas have a lot in commom.

Wind, oil, lots of rich folk.

Just looked at Scott Jamieson's card.
He had two eagles and a 5 at a par 3 in his 66.
Finishes from the 11th with 5 straight birds, 2 pars and an eagle. Wow.

Electric in the air and Monty having to leave a ball in a hazard!

JPX wrote:

George1507 wrote: but the English Amateur Championship is not played on links courses.

List of previous courses on the rota for the English shows otherwise:

Royal St Georges
Saunton
Lytham St Annes
St. Mellion
Royal Liverpool
Royal Cinqu Ports
Birkdale
Hillside
Burnham & Berrow
Formby

OK, those are the exceptions. This year it's at Woburn, previous venues include -

Wentworth
Woodhall Spa
Moortown
Alwoodley
Walton Heath
Little Aston
Hollinwell
Gosforth
Mid Surrey
Berkshire
Bromborough
Ganton
Frilford Heath

ryan86 wrote:Electric in the air and Monty having to leave a ball in a hazard!

Talk about dejavous! The last time he was in this situation wasn't Jakarta a last ditch attempt to qualify for the Masters. No wonder he's 'no touchin' the ba'!!!

Some Americans do play links golf well.
Tony Lema and Doug Sanders were brilliant links players, in fact during that era they were playing classic links golf whilst the young British players such as Barnes, Gregson and Horton did not have a clue.

The BBC radio guys were saying that the European Tour had shortened the course by over 300 yards. Strange thing to do.

gaelgowfer wrote:

ryan86 wrote:Electric in the air and Monty having to leave a ball in a hazard!

Talk about dejavous! The last time he was in this situation wasn't Jakarta a last ditch attempt to qualify for the Masters. No wonder he's 'no touchin' the ba'!!!

I might be wrong, but doesn't look exceptionally tricky anyway. Rough doesn't look that bad and it's uphill after the hole. Cue tuning in tomorrow to see Monty has taken 7, shot 84 and then accidentally reversed his car into the Moray Firth whilst trying to leave in a hurry.

SmithersJones wrote:

hend085 wrote:to say the game is the exact same if you hit 18 greens and 18 fairways is a bit of a stupid comment in fairness!

Care to expand on that? How would it differ in such a hypothetical scenario?

Perhaps it would have been more appropriate to say the opposite. It's like the bloke on the first tee that had an air shot and made the comment "my this is a tough course!"

This not very good news this morning...

Castle Stuart Golf Links, the site of The Barclays Scottish Open has been closed to the public due to the heavy overnight rain in the Inverness area which has flooded the course and surrounds.

The second round was due to resume at 7am but that will not happen. Members of the public are asked not to travel to the site at the present moment - further updates will be given on www.europeantour.com when they are known.

just across the water and its absolutely chucking it down right now. i'm out in the last game of the black isle open in fortrose at 11ish and its looking unlikely that 36 holes will be on the cards. more thundery showers forecast for this evening. i really need to invest in some watetproofs!

should this thread no be a sticky?

... and it was made so...

They'll surely finish to struggle before Monday now. Hardly ideal preparation for the open. Assuming play does resume will we see a spate of players making silly bogies in a bid to miss the cut and thereby ensure they will make in down south in time for the open?

Bambam I'm just across the water also (metaphorically speaking i.e the Irish sea) and the sun is splitting the trees here!

Confirmed WG... I'm just applying suncream at the moment before going out for a game

Sounds worlds apart from world#1's adventures this morning:

(Luke's tweet)
"It's not everyday your courtesy car driver gets you stuck in a giant puddle and get towed out by a JCB! #Scotland #lovingthisweather"

Ok so this event is now in total farce, was there an inordinate amount of rain or was the course not constructed to cope with some heavy rain. If it is the latter then what were they thinking?

It is a sad situation as I for one was excited to see the Scottish Open being staged on something approaching a links but this cannot help the chances of the event staying at castle stuart long term.

It's very strange because apparently Scotland isn't a wet country, that's just a myth... now who said that on here?
Meanwhile beautiful sunny day down on the English south coast.

Diggers I am not sure of your point? Are you saying golf events should not be held where there is the chance of some rain? As long as it is not an extreme downpour the players should just have to get on with it.

It was just a joke Mac. Super was saying last week it's a bit of a myth Scotkand is wet. I'm sure he's right for some areas but was just having a josh at his expense.
I certainly wouldnt advocate holding the Scottish Open south of Scotland, don't think it would really work.

Diggers wrote:It was just a joke Mac. Super was saying last week it's a bit of a myth Scotkand is wet. I'm sure he's right for some areas but was just having a josh at his expense.
I certainly wouldnt advocate holding the Scottish Open south of Scotland, don't think it would really work.

I recall SR mentioning the very same thing; I too would not doubt his correctness, just unfortunate timing.

The fact that the crown of the 'European' season now finishes in err Dubai always tickles me. Yes the 'European Tour' is now truly global, something that some nutter tried to achieve in the late thirties / forties but thankfully failed.

Yadsendew wrote:

Diggers wrote:It was just a joke Mac. Super was saying last week it's a bit of a myth Scotkand is wet. I'm sure he's right for some areas but was just having a josh at his expense.
I certainly wouldnt advocate holding the Scottish Open south of Scotland, don't think it would really work.

I recall SR mentioning the very same thing; I too would not doubt his correctness, just unfortunate timing.

The fact that the crown of the 'European' season now finishes in err Dubai always tickles me. Yes the 'European Tour' is now truly global, something that some nutter tried to achieve in the late thirties / forties but thankfully failed.

Ha ha I've been itching to get back from work to comment on the very same thing.

Sunny down here in Surrey. Guess that's why our courses are all over crowded with "improper" golfers.

So is that it for the golf today.

How come nairn and dornoch are still playable?

Diggers I am in the SW of Scotland.
Right now it is to hot to put our young g'daughter in the garden and I have just taken over an hour watering my garden.

The area around Castle Stuart on the back of the Grampions is one of the driest in the UK.
Not last night though.

Doon....as I said just a joke. Glad the weather is nice for you, also just been pottering in the garden myself and about to take my 2 year old for an ice cream at the park.

New hazard on the 1st... (as Luke says)

http://twitpic.com/5nhauc

I feel for the staff at Castle Stuart though, they must have a really hard time dealing with all of this...

Poor groundstaff, and such a shame as the course looked really good. Stupid deluge in July!

McLaren wrote:Ok so this event is now in total farce, was there an inordinate amount of rain or was the course not constructed to cope with some heavy rain. If it is the latter then what were they thinking?

It is a sad situation as I for one was excited to see the Scottish Open being staged on something approaching a links but this cannot help the chances of the event staying at castle stuart long term.

The course was coping with "heavy rain" and probably a lot better than Loch Lomond would have. However, just to add some perspective to this discussion, there isn't a course in the entire world that could have coped with the exceptional conditions we've had over the past couple of days. Indeed, I'm given to understand half of Edinburgh was washed away yesterday.

Nevertheless, questions will still have to be asked as to why the landslip happened in the first place. Until that question has been answered, don't you think it a little premature to kick this otherwise successful venue into touch (including spectator numbers up by 2,000 yesterday for last year's corresponding day at LL)? Of course, it has to be remembered that your neck of the woods (Edinburgh/East Lothian area) will be touting for this event in the future but of course that wouldn't be influencing your opinion now, would it?

Jings that's an awful picture.
Strange weather pattern. Morningside in Edinburgh flooded whilst 15 miles east not a drop of rain.
Before some of us get on our high horses ,I think we have to listen to what the Pro's were saying about the venue. Remember we were all looking for a good links course in the week prior to the Open. Castle Stuart seemed to fit the bill

I would have thought the Tournament Director just needs to articulately convey the extraordinary nature of the conditions and everyone will properly understand.
Not a tournament around that hasn't been badly affected at one time or another. Snow in Arizona, frost in the California desert, fog anywhere, Mississippi floods, Bethpage, just to mention some in the States, let alone last autumn's Celtic Manor upheaval.

Sounds to me like 90% of the situation could not have been avoided; fix the remaining 10% and that's all that can be asked.

hi all,
just across the water from c.s and was playing in the black isle open at fortrose and rosemarkie today which was cancelled due to waterlogged course and threat of lightning. play was suspended by an hour first thing due to extremely heavy rain overnight. first group out completed 28 holes. i was in the last group out and we managed 12 holes. it rained extremely heavily for the majority of the time we were out. must have had the brolley up and down a dozen times. lots of thunder in the air particularly over toward fort george / dalcross. very nice spells in between the downpours. could well have been dry over in nairn, ten miles west of c.s. as for dornoch, at least 40miles north as the crow flies so like saying the weather in edinburgh should be the same as in perth! these are highly unusual conditions for this area. i've played at f&r regularly for the last 12 years and this is only the second comp i can remember being cancelled. it is a great shame for the scottish. just heard that it will be 54hole on the news. fingers crossed the remainder will be completed without further delay tomorrow.

McLaren wrote:Ok so this event is now in total farce, was there an inordinate amount of rain or was the course not constructed to cope with some heavy rain. If it is the latter then what were they thinking?

It is a sad situation as I for one was excited to see the Scottish Open being staged on something approaching a links but this cannot help the chances of the event staying at castle stuart long term.

it is a great shame. the course has been played without this kind of issue for a wee while now. doesnt look like its something that has been caused by mass spectators. just freak conditions. fingers crossed the sponsors dinnae pull oot for next year.

yes I am not sure any blame can be laid at the feet of the ground staff but does the courses reaction to the conditions highlight the fact it is not built on links land?


It is either very bad luck to get a landslide the one week the world is watching or the increased traffic on the course has disrupted the courses natural ability to cope with adverse conditions. However even if this is the case as Kwini points out it would not be a difficult one to fix. So yes as nice as it would be to get a tour stop on my doorstep (Renaissance) it would be an over reaction to right of castle stuart at this stage. Although I still stand by my earlier comment that it is a bit of a farce that the course can collapse due to some heavy rain, it cannot be the first time they have had rain this heavy since construction.

In a slightly wider context I hope this does not dampen the pro's enthusiasm for the Scottish open in future years.

I take it Mark Tullo hasn't qualified for the Open, so a repeat weather performance overnight would be welcome for him?

there is quite a steep bank between the two levels of the course - presumably this is the area where the slides have occurred? not seen any photos so i'm just guessing. to be honest mac the weather up here has been pretty out of the ordinary. something like 5-6 inches rain in the last 24hrs.

Ban_bam ... I thought there was only one landslide ... at the first hole? From what I can gather and, as landslides go, it was a fairly minor example. Still, it must be a bit of a worry for Messrs, Parsinen and Hanse that such an event could have happened in the first place.

Anyone remember the (much more serious) landslide on the A9 not so long ago? There seems to be little doubt that Scotland is experiencing more intensely freaky weather conditions than certainly I can remember in my lifetime.

Still, it is intriguing why part of a steep hillside rooted with gorse suffered a partial collapse. Given the upper part would (presumably) have previously been farmland, I'm wondering if the (stabilised) turfed fairway ultimately provided the trigger for this collapse. By that, I mean rainwater being more easily able to run off onto the hillside thereby putting it under greater pressure.

It's a theory!

a decent wadge of farmland slipped a bit not far from my folks home in fortrose about 10 years ago after serious continuous rain and a fair bit of soil (and tatties) was carried a good half mile down the high st. these freak floods and slides do happen its probably just bad luck it happened now. wouldnt be surprised if there was something to your theory. all the sand they've sat the fairways probably mean there is more water draining deeper, quicker leading to a greater mass of sodden earth applying force to the bank.

First was Ben Crane, then Rickie/Bubba&Co and now this!?
Whatever next...

http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/season=2011/tournamentid=2011047/videoaudio/videoid=140329.html

Mind you, I would venture to say that our Shane is by far the most 'gracious' of the lot! ('nuff said)

Luke challenging for the lead...

Prince~ that's quite funny, Big Phill out of his comfort zone!


Thirteen players within two shots of the lead.
With all that money at stake it should be a good days sport.

last group only 3-4holes to complete round 2. cut looks certain at -4. peter hanson moves into 4 way tie at -11. luke finishes at -10! 77 players within 7 shots of the lead. any guesses at the winning score? -16?

I'll take a punt on 17 under bambam. Plenty of opportunities out there today and a lot of the players haven't hit a ball properly since Friday. On Friday I would have said GMac, he still might do it but I'm liking Luke at the moment as well.

Gaelgolfer apparently there was a landslide on the 12th as well, haven't seen any pictures of that yet though.