606v2 picks the Irish RWC squad: CENTRES

Morning all.
Hope everyone had a good weekend.

I have seen the Welsh and English have already started these kinda articles and it did seem like a good idea to try and have them all together.
So the series will determine who will be the Irish RWC squad according to the 606v2 community.

I will try and post up the next part of the series every weekday morning so we all have plenty of time to debate each position. Obviously everyone has their own opinions but try and keep a level head and back up your points with examples or clips or something.

I am going to go for a 16/14 split between the backs and forwards.
4 props
3 hookers
3 locks
6 backrow (1 able to play lock)
3 scrumhalves
2 flyhalves
3 centres (1 able to play flyhalf)
6 back 3

This is Kidney's 43 man squad.
http://www.irishrugby.ie/ireland/23313.php

So far the Squad is:
Healy, Ross, Buckley and Court
Best, Cronin and Flannery
O'Connell, O'Callaghan and Cullen
Heaslip, O'Brien, Ferris, Wallace, Jennings and Ryan
Reddan, Stringer and Murray
Sexton and O'Gara

Centres is another position where we have some talent. There are some players who are centre/back3 so they may get included here and on the back 3 page provided they don't make it as a centre first.

We can choose 3 centres

O'Driscoll- Captain. One of the greatest Irish players/players in the world. Slower now than he was. Great hands and reader of the game. Very intelligent and chooses good lines of running. Good defender positionally and in the tackle. Good try scoring record. Kicking can be questionable at times and gliders like Foden and Conrad Smith have started beating him on the outside in rare occassions.
Darcy- Injured currently and will get 2 warm up games max before the RWC. Crash ball centre providing different dynamic. Average distribution for a world Class centre but poor vision and offloading skills. Makes a large number of tackles per game. One dimensional.
Wallace- A very different style of 12. Good distribution skills and offload. A surprisingly good step and fend off and is good at spotting a gap. Defence has improved considerably and brings a solid kicking game. Can play outhalf and 15 at a large stretch IMO. Not a 'crash centre' which possibly our backs need unless Trimble is selected.
McFadden- Can play wing and both centres. Very good kicking from hand and floor. Good distribution and is very hard to bring down due to low centre of gravity and strong leg drive, makes a lot of metres in the tackle. Inexperienced. A balanced player regarding playing style.
Spence- Injured at the moment but Kidney has said injured players may still get selected. Strong runner and tackler. Can play 12 and wing but primarily a 13. Very inexpereienced. Crash ball style centre. Not great distribution or kicking skills. On form player.
Duffy- Mainly plays 15 but is a capable 13 also. Not very flashy but good defence and above average distribution. He also brings a kicking game. A very solid player but maybe missing a bit of pace and the ability to split a defence or beat his man.

NB: If McFadden and Duffy do not get selected as 1 of the 3 centre places they will be put into the back3 post where people can vote for them there too due to there versatility. Spence will not as he is less of a back3 player than either of the other 2 (McFadden and Duffy have international caps as back3 players).

I went for O'Driscoll, Darcy and Wallace.

O'Driscoll-for obvious reasons
Darcy-he was actually on some form post 6n and if he can make it injury and form wise I think he should go
Wallace-something different to Darcy and an underrated player. Also OH cover.

I will be voting for McF in the back 3 post as I believe he has a lot to offer as a centre and a winger.

I went for the same three. McFadden has had a good season and in a lot of peoples eyes will be running Wallace close. But I believe the main reasons Wallace will be picked are;

1) Cover at 10
2) Experience in the big games and- he has played 12 against all the big test nations, and he knows the teams systems in defence and attack.

Spence is too green and one-dimensional, Duffy is really not in the running imo. Earls and Bowe will do a better job of covering 13. McFadden I may vote for in the back three because I believe he represents a good wildcard selection and is highly versatile.

Same three for me.

Wallace is there for OH cover but is also under rated by most. Saying that i have darcy starting every time.
Also Earls would be my cover for 13 so will be picking him in the back three. He will be a start anyway

Notch wrote:I went for the same three. McFadden has had a good season and in a lot of peoples eyes will be running Wallace close. But I believe the main reasons Wallace will be picked are;

1) Cover at 10
2) Experience in the big games and- he has played 12 against all the big test nations, and he knows the teams systems in defence and attack.

Basically +1. I've gone for the same trio of BOD, D'Arcy and Wallace. For RWC2011 they're the 3 best centres we have, IMO.

Couldn't agree more Notch-
I'd also add with wallace. If Darcy is just not getting over the gain line and not recycling ball quick enough having a 12 who will drastically shift our game is important. BOD and Wallace have worked well together in the past. Wallace is also more well rounded. he can make the break himself and also give it to the guys outside him. Darcy doesn't have both tricks up his sleeve as much.

Just put Duffy in there so he was represented.

If Darcy is not fit I would definitely bring McFadden I think he is the closest thing to Darcy we have and is better in some aspects.

Pete agreed.

The only way these three don't go is if one is injured. Mcfadden would be the next in line to travel.

I'm not even sure Darcy will be able to go, if he can I think he should but McF could be brought by Kidney just to cover this injury incacse it reapears etc.

Technically Darcy's timeline is

miss pre-season
miss scot game
miss Fra game
injury healed (hopefully, Darcy is not a quick healer and never has been)
Fra game (he may or may not get selected for due to only just being back)
squad announcement (30 man RWC squad)
Eng game
RWC

On the cold hard facts, Darcy's RWC looks like more of a hope than anything.

ok by the guidelines set down wallace has to go cause he is the only center that plays fly half(not really)

I don't rate wallace, he is good for ulster, not exceptional and is outshone by the younger backs in ulster.

The biggest annoyance for me in leinster has been that mcfadden hasnt been given more oportunity to play center, but with darcy injured now we will get to see mcfadden and wallace in the warm up games

and after them i think we will know a bit more

Gone for the same 3, will prob have McF as part of the back 3, as we will need more than 3 specialist centres (esp if one is also 3rd OH). Not to mention D'Arcy's injury which could rule him out of the WC.

And Spence is injured so can't be considered (so is baby Hump)

I have gone for Wallace,Darcy and BOD. Wallace is a player I don't rate as highly as others ( Notch )
but he could still provide decent cover and is a good option for the sceond 5/8 kind of style. He is a a second playmaker and with him and Sexton on the pitch we could mix up our 10/12 axis. However if he has to play out half we are doomed.

In a way McF and Wallace could play so well in the warm ups that maybe a just back from injury and slightly off the boil Darcy won't get his place on the plane.

Would take something special especially from McF.

I agree D24-
I was fairly frustrated by how few games McF got at 12 this year considering he was playing excellently and Darcy was average at times.

I really hope that McF goes one of my favourite players at the moment and thus am somewhat biased.

ps: Thomond

Better to have Wallace in at OH if necessary other than O'Driscoll or Earls slotting in at 10.

Now that is scary!! :run2:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:ps: Thomond

Better to have Wallace in at OH if necessary other than O'Driscoll or Earls slotting in at 10.

Now that is scary!! :run2:

o'driscoll really is a poor kicker from hand sometimes
Mc fadden would have to be the fourth choice FH if it came to it and everyone was injured

Wonder if murray could play OH, some posters ahve sworn they saw him walk on water so you never know

TOL has played outhalf once when ROG was yellow carded against Italy and Wallace was in the blood bin. Stringer came on for Wallace and went to SH with TOL at 10 and missing a centre.

Yeah BOD can be quite a poor kicker at times but then again he can be great at others.

Realistically if ROG and Sexton both get serious injuries I want Wallace there and probably fly out IHumph/Keatly

TOL played 10 for Munster against the Ospreys a few years ago he has played wing and centre too. Hopefully it won't come to that.

Fingers crossed for sure. I have to say I think when Wallace was last playing 10 for Ulter at times I thought he did ok.

In fairness to BOD, he has worked on his kicking from hand and isn't bad at all now.

I think he can kick pretty well at times Sin with low grubbers etc it seems to be when he goes to spiral or punt the ball. A lot of the time he slices it or puts it out on the full. it's a real momentum killer too when a kick goes out on the full.

sometimes i think its good to see these types of scenarios

i like to see who is going to step up and grab the bull by the horns, i always thought that geordan murphy could do a good job

I'd be interested to hear what people think regarding his outside defence. he is very good at shutting down the option of an attacker going wide but if the attacker tries to take BOD on the outside and has a bit of pace and or acceleration I get worried.

granted he was injured for the HCup final when Foden skinned him twice I am just a bit anxious now when someone quick sizes him up and the outside is somewhat free

i think in structured play he still is head and shoulders above the rest with his reading and positional defence

i think where he is beginning to falter is in open play if the game opens up and its not a matter of him being in the right place but more a matter of whether his body is up to it.
He is getting old and the pace is beginning to go so its harder to stop people like foden

His acceleration seems to have dipped quite a bit over the past while. Conrad Smith gunned it past him on the outside a year or so ago and Smith is not lightening.

I think off set plays though you are right for the most part he covers the space and distances very well and he is still an outstanding reader of the game.

Looks like people are generally in agreement on this. Will post the back3 one tomorrow.

The contenders will be

Bowe
Earls
Kearney
Murphy
Trimble
Jones
McFadden
Duffy
Fitzgerald
Horgan

Have yourselves ready gents this one is gonna me a lot more fiery than the last 2 today!

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:His acceleration seems to have dipped quite a bit over the past while. Conrad Smith gunned it past him on the outside a year or so ago and Smith is not lightening.

I think off set plays though you are right for the most part he covers the space and distances very well and he is still an outstanding reader of the game.

His acceleration and speed are gone unfortunately, which means he will be burned on the outside at some stage, we just have to adapt and hope it does have a major influence on the game. If it the game becomes scrappy and if there is a lot of broken play against aus they will tear us to pieces anyway.

The centres will be d'arcy, wallace and bod if they are fit. Since Kidney has taken over, excluding the tour to north america, the three of them, fitz and earls are the only players who have played in the centre for Ireland.

edit Also there is not a hope in hell we will duffy in the centre at the world cup, there are at least 8 players ahead of him.

If darcy isn't fit wallace will start. As was said above this may mean having to bring in trimble on the wing to give a bosh merchant into the team.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Looks like people are generally in agreement on this. Will post the back3 one tomorrow.

The contenders will be

Bowe
Earls
Kearney
Murphy
Trimble
Jones
McFadden
Duffy
Fitzgerald
Horgan
Have yourselves ready gents this one is gonna me a lot more fiery than the last 2 today!

He isnt in the 43 man squad, is he? I thought he was ruled out due to injury?

Yeah the way our team is made up and the way the Oz team is made up we really need a structured game and they want the opposite.

BOD's pace and acceleration haven't completely gone but they have definitely dwindled. His break against NH from the base of the ruck showed a bit of gas but Foden tore him apart (again, injury granted)

Darcy seems to make most of his tackles but he seems to be making more positional mistakes than he was in years gone.

They still are a great centre partnership defensively due to their knowledge of the game and how well they interact together. Offensively they seem quite weak at making the break themselves but BOD still seems to be excellent at making space for others. Last blinding break I can think of him making was 09 against France. He doesn't really slice through the defence the way he did anymore.

I picked BOD Darcy and McF.

Why?

-I dont rate P Wallace as an International standard rugby player
-Its doubtful he would make a full strenght Ulster 15
-Despite 1 tackle (what a tackle) on Flutey, he's never made a meaningful impact at international level
-He lacks pace
-If the unthinkable happened and Sexton and RoG were both injured, I'd rather McF in at Out Half (not gonna happen though)
-McFadden has massive pace- could be the fastest man in reckoning for the squad.
-McFadden does not have a history of brainfarts as Wallace clearly does (when playing for Ireland)
-If RoG and Wallace were to end up 10- 12, and we were playing someone decent, we might as well call then the sluce gates. Everything is getting through them.
-McFaddens one game starting for Ireland, he scores a try- against France.
-McFadden has shown AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL that he can do it. Against ASM Clermont Auvernge home and away he was superb.
-He has had a better season than Wallace and thus deserves to go on form
-He is the future and needs to be given his chance.
-His low center of gravity.

...........all of these mean little as Wallace will be brought. Mores the pitty. I'd leave him at home.

...Oh and remember that try against Racing Metro?? Down the right in the RDS?

Cant see Wallace doing that and thats the kind of skill speed and ability we need in a World Cup. Burning pace.

I would take D'Arcy, BOD and P Wallace, but would also take McFadden.

You could then have Kearney, Earls, Trimble, Bowe and Jones as the back three choices.

Plenty cover for all positions if you do it that way, and I managed not to pick Luke Fitzgerald, who could easily go instead of Jones if you were worried about his lack of experience.

That try against racing was awesome! People don't realise how quick he is really! He's got wheels and can kick and pass and can ride a tackle and offload, he's a very good allrounder. The tackle on Rougerie was pretty massive also. He threw Ashton around a bit in the HCup final as well when he came on.

I'd still bring Wallace but am gonna vote for McF in the back3 post.
Wallace isn't as bad as you are making him out IMO.

Thats is really. It boils down (IMHO) to either Wallace (who will be picked), McF and Fitz.

One of those players will be left behind (unless he doesnt take a chance on Jones, which I think he will cause of lack of FB cover)

I'd love for Wallace to prove me wrong.

In a world Cup though, cant see it. Sorry.

Out of Wallace, McF and Fitz I would leave out Fitzgerald every time.

I used to be one of his biggest fans because he was just an exciting player and was so agile and quick. Also his hands were fairly good I could forgive his lack of kicking ability but he just makes so many mistakes now.

(saracens)

Wales? The penalty? The overlap spoiled?

Fitz, however badly he is playing was a Lion. Wallace was never will never be that level.

Fitzgerald is such a liability though at times he destroys try scoring chances and doesn't even retain the ball as such cos it's usually passed to where he supposed to be not where he is (2m further ahead)

I wouldn't bring him or Kearney myself.
I think McF and Wallace both deserve to go.

I know the back 6 discussion is still to come but if he doesnt bring Kearney, who will he bring?

We need 2 FBs. Murphy will not travel, I hope. That leaves Kearney and AN Other. Unless Earls is considered a FB- which he could well be.

Theres no doubt Wallace will be brought though and I will wish him well.

I imagine Earls and Jones.

I can't understand why people would prefer Kearney over Murphy though, to me it doesn't make sense. Kearney hasn't played well in over a year and a half. Murphy has been on good form with the tigers for quite a while.

Do people think that darcy is going to make it to the RWC with his injury??????????????????????

Señor Boyne.

'I dont rate P Wallace as an International standard rugby player'

Personal opinion alert. Paddy gets a lot of stick for decisions made with the benefit of hindsight.

'Its doubtful he would make a full strenght Ulster 15'

Absolute horseshit we have no other quality 12 a highlighted by Leinster trouncing us in the Magners semis. Spence an Cave are both 13s and Marshall
ain't anywhere near ready yet.

'Despite 1 tackle (what a tackle) on Flutey, he's never made a meaningful impact at international level'

His tackling has improved no end this season. He kept Downey in a box during the HC QF and has performed admirably given our axis of 10/12 IH and himself don't have the best reputations defensively.

'He lacks pace'

Does a 12 need a great amount of pace? Not unless we pull a switch and send him down the wing...

'If the unthinkable happened and Sexton and RoG were both injured, I'd rather McF in at Out Half (not gonna happen though)'

And I would rather feed my own testicles through a blender than see McF at 10 before Wallace. Wallace has played at 10 3 times this season, not with particular prowess I admit. Has McF? (that's a serious question btw I know he's done a bit of kicking.) Either way the point is immaterial as neither are likely to start at 10 if we lose ROG and Sexton, one of Keatley or IH will be called out.

'McFadden does not have a history of brainfarts as Wallace clearly does (when playing for Ireland'

So in all of his 2? Caps McF hasn't made a glaring error. Frig boys let's get to church straight away this kid is clearly the messiah.

'If RoG and Wallace were to end up 10- 12, and we were playing someone decent, we might as well call then the sluce gates. Everything is getting through them.'

Here you might have a point, albeit a crude one. As I have mentioned Ulster coped pretty well with the IH/PW axis all season. When it comes to international level though I can see issues arriving though not solely through PW's fault. Oh and the Sexton/D'Arcy axis worked wonders against France. No rampaging French centre ran through young Gordon to score a try. Noone is infallible.

'McFaddens one game starting for Ireland, he scores a try- against France.'

I scored an excellent try my first game out for my u12 side in school. I complained to the coach when I was unceremoniously dropped for the next game. Scoring a try such as he or I did proves Love sacks all. That's not to take anything away from his try, but it ain't as though he collected the ball in his own 22, and ran the length of the pitch evading tackles to score.

'McFadden has shown AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL that he can do it. Against ASM Clermont Auvernge home and away he was superb.' and '-He has had a better season than Wallace and thus deserves to go on form'

Right I'll take these 2 points together. If McF has shown his form and skills qt the highest level why didn't he start the HC Final instead of the out of form Fitzgerald? Fitzgerald the former lion who's had a run of bad luck with injuries and was dropped from the Ireland team. And you Fergus could only make the Leinster bench behind him. Oh and hey don't get me wrong he's had some stellar performances this season, but if he was consistently good why has a mediocre Fitzgerald and a poor D'Arcy reduced him to a bench spot. How do you judge he had a better season than Wallace. He and Ulster achieved our aims and reached the league play offs and HC QFs. Wallace kept his place in the starting XV all season bar injury at the end.

'He is the future and needs to be given his chance.'

On the biggest stage possible? Where he's likely to reduced to playing against the minnows in the group stages? He's the future yes, but it would be far better for him to earn a spot in the Leinster starting XV before we throw him permanently into the Ireland set up.

'His low center of gravity.'

Wow feck this. Forget all I just said. I had idea he had a low centre of gravity. Get him on the plane.

Willy-
Your points are all reasonable although at times equally if not even more crudely made, Boyne you are quite harsh on Wallace. He is a good player and has improved on the two parts of his game most lacking in seasons gone: defence and attacking the line from 12.

Willy-
I do however think McF should go. I don't and din't agree with McF being kept out of the team by Darcy (for bits of the season) and McF (for most of the season). McF is a very good player IMO who could be used well against the minnows and would step up if required against stronger opponents

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I imagine Earls and Jones.

I can't understand why people would prefer Kearney over Murphy though, to me it doesn't make sense. Kearney hasn't played well in over a year and a half. Murphy has been on good form with the tigers for quite a while.

Do people think that darcy is going to make it to the RWC with his injury??????????????????????

Murphy hasn't played since october or november due to a broken leg. He is past it and nowhere near kearney's level. If kearney is fit he will go then it just comes down to whether Kidney wants specialised cover (Jones) or if he trust earls to cover it.

edit: also kearney's so called poor form has been massively overblown and i'd be shocked if he's not starting 15 for leinster next year, nacewa will move to the wing and be just as effective.

And boyne I'd be willing to bet everything I own that Wallace will start next season at 12, when he returns from the world cup, if everyone is fit for ulster.

Willy!!



I stopped reading at the blender bit!!!

Seriously, I'd love to see P Wallace score the winner against Oz.

Lets just see how he gets on in the summertime tests. Looks like he'll have his chance, so lets hope he takes it.

I wouldn't agree with you at all Val.

Kearney's "level" IMO is appalling.

He does not pass the ball.
He does not avoid tacklers.
He does not offload.
He does not join the line effectively or creatively.
He does not tackle well.

Kearney catches the ball well
Kearney kicks the ball well
Kearney is fast in a straight line
Kearney runs straight into a group of defenders at high speed

What is so good about him? Why do people like his style of play? Is his style not outdated? When was the last time he proved he was a top notch fullback since the Lions? When was the last time kearney broke the defensive line? Why would you move the best 15 in the NH to wing where he will be less influential for a player who hasn't played well in nearly 2 years? Will Kearney even make the Leisnter 23 with Carr, McF, Nacewa and Horgan all around??

Murphy may not have the physical speed of Kearney but he is so much clever it's insulting to compare them.

Aaaaah! We shouldn't get into this here guys, can we draw a line here please and save this for tomorrow morning??
Do people think that Darcy is going to make the RWC with his injury???????????????????????????

To be honest I overuse that testicles line. It's something of a conversation stopper!

'Do people think that Darcy is going to make the RWC with his injury???????????????????????????'

I think he will go regardless of whether he plays in a warm up game or not. As long as the injury heals he will go regardless of any questions over fitness.

Haha good man Willy

Can someone please answer my question though! Will Darcy be brought to the RWC if he only has 1 game to prove his fitness and form.

He will miss the first two warm ups, may not even be selected for the home game agaisnt France as he will only just be back. May get a run off the bench and then the squad is announced before the English game.

Someone please answer me!!!!

[quote="pete (buachaill on eirne)"]

Can someone please answer my question though! Will Darcy be brought to the RWC if he only has 1 game to prove his fitness and form.

He will miss the first two warm ups, may not even be selected for the home game agaisnt France as he will only just be back. May get a run off the bench and then the squad is announced before the English game.

Someone please answer me!!!![/quote]

I really hope he is not on the plane we need everyone fit and ready for the oz match, and thats something i fear wont happen if he plays which he will be knowing kidney

I don't think he should go if he only gets one game to show if he is alright or not. Granted if he is fit he will have the Eng and USA game too but hmmm not sure

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I wouldn't agree with you at all Val.

Kearney's "level" IMO is appalling.

He does not pass the ball.
He does not avoid tacklers.
He does not offload.
He does not join the line effectively or creatively.
He does not tackle well.

Kearney catches the ball well
Kearney kicks the ball well
Kearney is fast in a straight line
Kearney runs straight into a group of defenders at high speed

What is so good about him? Why do people like his style of play? Is his style not outdated? When was the last time he proved he was a top notch fullback since the Lions? When was the last time kearney broke the defensive line? Why would you move the best 15 in the NH to wing where he will be less influential for a player who hasn't played well in nearly 2 years? Will Kearney even make the Leisnter 23 with Carr, McF, Nacewa and Horgan all around??

Murphy may not have the physical speed of Kearney but he is so much clever it's insulting to compare them.

The bold bits are just not true. He can be selfish at times but he does pass the ball, he is quite good at joining the line and running through gaps. The fact that it excelled so well under the ELV's has led to lots of people forgetting that he burst on to the scene under a different set of rules. He has scored plenty of tries for leinster and he is a far superior player to what people are saying he is. Kearney has put in performances at international level that murphy never has. Murphy is past it and in truth has been since 03 at international level, he never recovered from the leg break.

Kearney will go back to 15 when he is fit and Nacewa will go to the wing. Nacewa will just be as effective on the wing. Carr is not hec level and horgan is going to struggle imo due to his age and injuries catching up on him. He will be ahead of Fitz. Kearney was playing decent when he got injured but the teams he was in were not. Under chieka, leinster played a defensive brand of rugby, he was injured before leinster got going under schmidts game and he last played for ireland when we were going through a massive injury crisis. His lack of form has been massively overblown, he has been playing solidly, The only thing I agree with you on is that his head on tackle is hopeless.