Welsh World Cup Squad...!

First topic message reminder :

Well votes have been cast, debate is still raging but I think everyone has had good opportunity to vote in the polls over who will play where and what the make up of the squad will be...

The Results are as follows.

Front Row Players

Gethin Jenkins
Paul James
Adam Jones
Craig Mitchell
Iestyn Thomas
Matthew Rees (Captain)
Richard Hibbard

Back Five Players

Bradley Davies
Luke Charteris
Alun Wynn Jones
Ryan Jones
Sam Warburton
Daniel Lydiate
Toby Faletau
Martyn Williams
Gareth Delve

Half Backs

Stephen Jones
James Hook
Rhys Priestland
Tavis Knoyle
Mike Phillips
Richie Rees

Outside Backs

Jamie Roberts
Jonathan Davies
Scott Williams
Shane Williams
George North
Leigh Halfpenny
Morgan Stoddard
Lee Byrne


Now the make up of that squad could alternate, more forwards less backs or more backs less forwards. More or less in certain areas.

I presume we will take a large number of back five players and players who have experience in different positions would be taken in preference to ones who have not.

Other Options that were close on the votes are:

Josh Turnbull
Lloyd Burns
Gavin Henson

Risca Rev wrote:Henson definitely went to Poland. I know who shared a room with him.

Tovey, wasn't it?

nottins_jones wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:Henson definitely went to Poland. I know who shared a room with him.

Got an informant ?

Not as such. He just happened to mention it.

Yes it was Tovey.

Janecory:

Welcome to 606v2, it is a friendly site, there are lot of loyal supporters pushing their club players for honours.

Have fun.

maestegmafia wrote:I have rated Scott since the under 20s where he was superb, I don't think he had anywhere near enough game time last season for the Scarlets, but I am very happy to see that the selectors have had the vision to include him in the Welsh squad this summer...!

I am sure you can find some of his tries on youtube.

You're right to rate him highly mate, I rate him to from what I've seen. Also he scored a superb length of the field try when our U20's smashed France. I believe Kris Phillips also notched up a hat-trick in that game.

Risca Rev wrote:

nottins_jones wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:Henson definitely went to Poland. I know who shared a room with him.

Got an informant ?

Not as such. He just happened to mention it.

Yes it was Tovey.

Oh right. I had a family member who played with Ed Shervington at Crosskeys RFC. Ed used to tell him stuff then it would make it's way back to me. My favourite was the time Andrew Bishop decked Alun Wyn Jones on a night out in Cardiff after he gave a bit of banter towards Gavin Henson went over the top.

nottins_jones wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I have rated Scott since the under 20s where he was superb, I don't think he had anywhere near enough game time last season for the Scarlets, but I am very happy to see that the selectors have had the vision to include him in the Welsh squad this summer...!

I am sure you can find some of his tries on youtube.

You're right to rate him highly mate, I rate him to from what I've seen. Also he scored a superb length of the field try when our U20's smashed France. I believe Kris Phillips also notched up a hat-trick in that game.

I remember it well, it wasnt the only brilliant try he scored either. Lovely understated style about him too... Makes it hard for a defence to read, blistering pace too. I think he is a great prospect.

nottins_jones wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

nottins_jones wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:Henson definitely went to Poland. I know who shared a room with him.

Got an informant ?

Not as such. He just happened to mention it.

Yes it was Tovey.

Oh right. I had a family member who played with Ed Shervington at Crosskeys RFC. Ed used to tell him stuff then it would make it's way back to me. My favourite was the time Andrew Bishop decked Alun Wyn Jones on a night out in Cardiff after he gave a bit of banter towards Gavin Henson went over the top.

Surprised he could reach. AW is a tall bloke

True, Bishop isn't small though. For me it was the icing on the cake that Alun Wyn Jones is a poor international 2nd row, you have to be a hard knock at least.

Risca Rev wrote:Henson definitely went to Poland. I know who shared a room with him.

Got to be one of the 25 birds he went on a dating show with, while the other players were working their butts-off Wales training!

nottins_jones wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I have rated Scott since the under 20s where he was superb, I don't think he had anywhere near enough game time last season for the Scarlets, but I am very happy to see that the selectors have had the vision to include him in the Welsh squad this summer...!

I am sure you can find some of his tries on youtube.

You're right to rate him highly mate, I rate him to from what I've seen. Also he scored a superb length of the field try when our U20's smashed France. I believe Kris Phillips also notched up a hat-trick in that game.

He is not playing against any easy opposition in youth games when or if he goes to NZ.

why would they be easy opposition in youth games? I think the most recent junior U20's WC has shown that easy opposition doesn't really exist at that age grade, don't you think?

Give the lad a chance, he has certainly shown he has the skills, he can only prove they work against bigger and better opposition when given the opportunity.

I personally find it exciting to see a young guy who looked so good at youth level now stepping up and demonstrating a bit of panache at senior level too.

mm,

Good morning, I agree (and in the absence of our A Team) these lads need to be given the chance.

I do however question the timing of it and throwing straight in to a WC. If he was that highly thought of then IMO he should have been given a shot during the 6 Nations or at least be involved in the Set Up during that time which I don't think he was.

Iestyn Thomas won't go because he is not in the squad, one of the other (non scumaging) props will get the nod.

The only suprise for me is Martyn Williams, he has been out on the Wales squad for some time now and time appears to have caught up with him. I can only assume he got the sympathy vote!

Seagultaf, I believe the only reason he still has a contract at the Blues was due to this sympathy vote. The reality is we have no time for sympathy because it's to the benefit of nobody.

Janecory wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:Henson definitely went to Poland. I know who shared a room with him.

Got to be one of the 25 birds he went on a dating show with, while the other players were working their butts-off Wales training!

Jealousy is an ugly trait.

Risca Rev wrote:

Janecory wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:Henson definitely went to Poland. I know who shared a room with him.

Got to be one of the 25 birds he went on a dating show with, while the other players were working their butts-off Wales training!

Jealousy is an ugly trait.

Which one of them is Jealousy and what's a trait?

bedfordwelsh wrote:mm,

Good morning, I agree (and in the absence of our A Team) these lads need to be given the chance.

I do however question the timing of it and throwing straight in to a WC. If he was that highly thought of then IMO he should have been given a shot during the 6 Nations or at least be involved in the Set Up during that time which I don't think he was.

Scott Williams was out injured from early autumn until February from what i remember.

Looks like the 606v2 fans choice for the RWC 1st XXII is:

15 Lee Byrne/Morgan Stoddart *
14 Leigh Halfpenny
13 Jamie Roberts
12 Jon Davies
11 Shane Williams
10 Stephen Jones
9 Richie Rees

8 Toby Faletau
7 Sam Warburton
6 Dan Lydiate
5 Bradley Davies
4 Alun Wyn Jones
3 Adam Jones
2 Matthew Rees (c)
1 Gethin Jenkins

16 Paul James
17 Richard Hibbard
18 Luke Charteris
19 Ryan Jones

20 Mike Phillips
21 James Hook
22 Morgan Stoddart/Lee Byrne *

* Stoddart and Byrne tied on 34%

Thanks for doing that TBS,

I must say out of that team the only person I would not have is Richie Rees, I know I disagree with, i think it is 23 people on this matter, but I do not rate him in the slightest.

He has a good pass, clears ball away well but he has no rugby brain, he cant read a game. I would rather Peel, Knoyle or even the much maligned Phillips than Rees.

Also can i add, that the apparent demotion of Delve is a little my fault, I accidentally didn't add him in the initial back row poll, he was added later on by a kind moderator.

I think if he had been added earlier he may have had more votes. I personally rate him very highly and hope he makes the squad if not the first team.

Sincerest apologies guys.

TBS,

I would be more than happy with that as our starting squad for the Boks. One small personal change for me is I would have Delve in there somewhere probably starting with Faletau on the bench at the expense of Charterris, Jones would be 2nd row cover

Yeah, scrum half is a funny old position for us. We've got them coming out of our ears but none seem to be in world class form. Peel looks like he's lost his effectiveness. Still busy but lost his edge. Phillips has been found out. Rees is good without being spectacular. The next batch of candidates seem a little undercooked to me. I'd personally go with Rees on the basis that he has some urgency, a decent degree of accuracy and a bit of zip to his game. I'd probably go with Knoyle on the bench. Great team player and will have a go around the fringes. Offers the physicality you get with Phillips without the crud attitude and crass stupidity.

Personally I'd go with:

Roberts
Stoddart
JD2
Hook
Williams
Jones
Rees

Delve
Warburton
Lydiate
AWJ
Davies
Jones
Rees
James

Jenkins
Hibbard
Jon Thomas
Faletau

Knoyle
Priestland
Brew

I did wonder about this as an alternative backs line up:

Stoddart
Roberts
JD2
Priestland
North
Hook
Knoyle

Lots of attacking options there!

I would be more along the lines of

Byrne
Halfpenny
Davies
Henson if he proves to have it all back as per the old days... otherwise Roberts and Davies
Williams
Hook
Peel
Delve
Warburton
Lydiate
Davies
AW jones
A Jones
Rees
Jenkins

James
Hibbard
R Jones
Faletau
Knoyle
Jones
Priestland

tbs,

Jon Thomas Are You Mad dear fella, I would have R Jones ahead of him as 2nd or back row cover.

I do like the idea of Roberts at XV though or even Halfpenny.

bedfordwelsh wrote:tbs,

Jon Thomas Are You Mad dear fella, I would have R Jones ahead of him as 2nd or back row cover.

I do like the idea of Roberts at XV though or even Halfpenny.

I rate Thomas higher because he carries much better than Jones and has more experience at covering the back 5 positions in the pack.

Always thought of Roberts as a back three player. Seems limited at centre. Would rather see him coming onto the ball from deep - would be much harder to stop. Also see him as very solid defensively. Would make a decent full back.

Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:tbs,

Jon Thomas Are You Mad dear fella, I would have R Jones ahead of him as 2nd or back row cover.

I do like the idea of Roberts at XV though or even Halfpenny.

I rate Thomas higher because he carries much better than Jones and has more experience at covering the back 5 positions in the pack.

Always thought of Roberts as a back three player. Seems limited at centre. Would rather see him coming onto the ball from deep - would be much harder to stop. Also see him as very solid defensively. Would make a decent full back.

He was a very decent fullback at under 20s and in his first season at the blues, as cover/understudy for ben blair. He was capped I think for WAles in his first season as a fullback too. I think it was against SA? Not a great result but he was solid from what i remember and may even have had a try.

He certainly scored far more frequently at fullback than he does at wing..

I believed at the time of his convertion to inside center that it was a wise decision as we had so few ball carrying forwards, but now that we hae more, i dont see him as being a necessity so close to the pack. I noticed similarly with the Blues this year that he often moved to the wing and allowed David Hewitt to come in to the center.

I always considered Roberts is short of pace for an international winger, outside center or fullback. But results show in training that he is one of the fastest in the welsh squad over a decent distance.

I was very surprised at this as he seemed to be caught from behind all to often...!

maestegmafia wrote:

I was very surprised at this as he seemed to be caught from behind all to often...!

Lack of support a major issue there too. Makes me wonder if our boys are Zombies

Think I have too little time on my hands today

Here's my effort

15 Halfpenny - played there for Cardiff, great left peg, great accelleration for angled runs
14 North - massive and knows where the tryline is
11 Williams - utter class in attack, good defence

13 Davies - try machine
12 Roberts - combines well with Davies

10 Jones - orchestrated the Scarlets last two matches with 8 tries in 2 games
9 Knoyle - form back, knows Jones inside out

8 Delve
7 Warburton
6 Lydiate

5 Ryan Jones
4 Davies

3 Jone
2 Rees capt
1 Jenkins

Bench
Stoddart - 15, 14, 11
Priestland - 15, 13, 10
Phillips - 9, 12
Faletua - 8, 6
Turnbull - 8, 7, 6
Charteris
Hibbard
James

fly,


I would still have AWJ in the side and I think you have one too many on the bench.

If I am right I think the WC is still a 22 man squad not 23 so to that end and with my selection of AWJ at 2nd row I would put RJ on the bench instead of Charterris

ahhh Bedfordwelsh I think you are correct

I would risk playing Shane as cover at 9 and drop Phillips I would try to keep Charteris somewhere ....... ohhh perhaps not Ohhh I dont know.

Saying that I would be loath to not include Hook especially after reviewing the Italy match bl00dy hell you guys have a dilema

I think I am going to have a lie down

flyhalffactory wrote:

13 Davies - try machine
12 Roberts - combines well with Davies

roberts and davies center partnership didnt work in the six nations so that is where i am worried. squad looks pretty good only queries for me are scrum half and center

Welshy:

I agree, they did not work together hence looking at Henson as the ball hardly ever get to the wings, both centres are poor passers when they do pass. I don't agree with Jones at 10 but I see the logic putting Hook at centre as he is a good passer.

I have noticed in Ospreys games that Hook covers the scrum half position when Phillips has gone AWOL and I commented that he would love to have his own service fast flat pass. In todays WM Hook revealed he played scrum half most of his youth! Another positon for Gatland to use him!

glamorganalun wrote:Welshy:

I agree, they did not work together hence looking at Henson as the ball hardly ever get to the wings, both centres are poor passers when they do pass. I don't agree with Jones at 10 but I see the logic putting Hook at centre as he is a good passer.

I have noticed in Ospreys games that Hook covers the scrum half position when Phillips has gone AWOL and I commented that he would love to have his own service fast flat pass. In todays WM Hook revealed he played scrum half most of his youth! Another positon for Gatland to use him!

I don't agree that Davies and Roberts "didn't work", I think Wales had far too many back line players who are crash ball players and look for contact, that makes us predictable.
Mike Phillips, Stephen Jones, Davies, Roberts and North are all crash ball contact players, when they all play together Wales will only do one thing, look for contact not space.
Putting Davies and Roberts together could work, but we need creative players to take advantage of the space they create when their charging.
Certainly against Scotland at Murrayfield when we won 24-6, our backs were fast and inventive, we had Lee Bryne at Full back, Stoddart and Shane Williams on the wings and Hook as fly half. Both Roberts and Davies were the centres and had a field day. Both of Shane Williams tries were well worked. The backs operate as a unit and if nearly all of the players offer the same strengths then Wales arentt hard to play against.

What game were you watching, we only played for the first 30 mins, Stoddart lack of tackling got Bryne in the bin making a desperate tackle (high) and then Bradley got binned. The last 30 mins we were in defend mode with out back row tackling anybody that moved. I agree Hook is a better option at 10 but as I stated previously he is no longer in the centre to make things happe there. Also when Hook made the break for the try where were the centres, only Shane had the sense to support.

welshy824 wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

13 Davies - try machine
12 Roberts - combines well with Davies

roberts and davies center partnership didnt work in the six nations so that is where i am worried. squad looks pretty good only queries for me are scrum half and center

welshy
You have to look at why they didnt work well together during some games in the 6Ns and then how they were pretty awesome against the NZ in their own backyard, no co-incidence that certain flyhalfs was distributing the ball in the 2009 SIs and a different one in some of their 6Ns "mares" particularly against France and to a lesser extent against Ireland

Just drives home why you require an aware 10 who can change the game when necessary

glamorganalun wrote:What game were you watching, we only played for the first 30 mins, Stoddart lack of tackling got Bryne in the bin making a desperate tackle (high) and then Bradley got binned. The last 30 mins we were in defend mode with out back row tackling anybody that moved. I agree Hook is a better option at 10 but as I stated previously he is no longer in the centre to make things happe there. Also when Hook made the break for the try where were the centres, only Shane had the sense to support.

For the first try I think you'll find Jamie Roberts was in the ruck securing the ball. Phillips passed it to Hook, who glided through the gap, and Shane was in support with Stoddart outside him who wasn't needed. The centres did their job.

Well for the second try it was Jonathan Davies deft chip over the top into space that got the try for Shane to run onto and score.

I think you'll find Mike Phillips knocked on during an up and under which put a lot of pressure on Wales at 23 minutes 30 seconds and Bradley Davies got carded first to prevent quick release of the ball, the first yellow was down to píss poor play by Phillips.

The second yellow at 26:30 was because Scotland worked an over lap for Max Evans and Lee Bryne high tackled him when there wasn't really a need to. You cant really blame Stoddart because Scotland were able to work an over lap.

I agree Wales didn't play attacking rugby after the first 25 minutes but it's hard when it's 13 against 15! That was down to Mike Phillips poor skills and Lee Brynes silly tackle, you cant blame Hook or the centres for that!

AlynDavies wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:Welshy:

I agree, they did not work together hence looking at Henson as the ball hardly ever get to the wings, both centres are poor passers when they do pass. I don't agree with Jones at 10 but I see the logic putting Hook at centre as he is a good passer.

I have noticed in Ospreys games that Hook covers the scrum half position when Phillips has gone AWOL and I commented that he would love to have his own service fast flat pass. In todays WM Hook revealed he played scrum half most of his youth! Another positon for Gatland to use him!

I don't agree that Davies and Roberts "didn't work", I think Wales had far too many back line players who are crash ball players and look for contact, that makes us predictable.
Mike Phillips, Stephen Jones, Davies, Roberts and North are all crash ball contact players, when they all play together Wales will only do one thing, look for contact not space.
Putting Davies and Roberts together could work, but we need creative players to take advantage of the space they create when their charging.
Certainly against Scotland at Murrayfield when we won 24-6, our backs were fast and inventive, we had Lee Bryne at Full back, Stoddart and Shane Williams on the wings and Hook as fly half. Both Roberts and Davies were the centres and had a field day. Both of Shane Williams tries were well worked. The backs operate as a unit and if nearly all of the players offer the same strengths then Wales arentt hard to play against.

Certain posters are banging on about 30 mins when Scotland hadnt got out of 2nd gear, but then don't seem to recall the Davies/Roberts mares aginst France and Ireland ...... same 10 played in all three games. You need an aware centre and an aware 10.

Roberts played well with BOD (Lions) Fourie(BaaBaas) Shanklin (Wales/Blues) Lualala (Blues) and Davies (Wales v NZ)
Davies played well King (Scarlets), Scott Williams (BaaBaas), Roberts (Wales)

How come they had mares in the 6Ns then .............. its really not rocket science

flyhalffactory wrote:Certain posters are banging on about 30 mins when Scotland hadnt got out of 2nd gear, but then don't seem to recall the Davies/Roberts mares aginst France and Ireland ...... same 10 played in all three games. You need an aware centre and an aware 10.

Roberts played well with BOD (Lions) Fourie(BaaBaas) Shanklin (Wales/Blues) Lualala (Blues) and Davies (Wales v NZ)
Davies played well King (Scarlets), Scott Williams (BaaBaas), Roberts (Wales)

How come they had mares in the 6Ns then .............. its really not rocket science

We did actually beat Ireland, so I don;t really recall them having a nightmare. Whilst you can argue O'Driscoll did score a try, it's worth pointing out he scores 1 every other game for Ireland so no shame really!
Though I agree against France they didn't play very well and the back line blew a few over laps.

yes an aware 10, which should be priestland, and i still find it stupid that people think jones is past it, he as part of the scarlet backline caused some cracking tries this season, i mean look at the first try from this,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7YKNn2JmGk

the question we ought to be asking is why cant the welsh backline do something like this? i mean after all both hook, Jones and (priestland although not had enough gametime) get the welsh backline to play like this?

agree with you Welshy

Shows how good Turnbull is in open play, however Jones distributed it at the scrum and shadowed the play and was next to Priestland at the end.

The point is Roberts/Davies played very well against a world class centre NZ partnership in NZ particularly the last 15 mins of the game no coincidence that Biggar then Jones was 10 that day

Flyhalf:

Remember the first NZ game, S Jones had a mare, the forwards gave us 65% possession in the first half and he and Phillips booted (and badly) all the ball away, Hook was not there to blame! As you know, Hook was MOM against Scotland and Ireland choosen by the pundits (not me)! Hook also had a good game against Italy being involved with 2 tries not bad for a poor performer. Yes not a great performance in France but he had played FB, FH,C,FH and FH respectively in the 6N. I don't remember our centres posing any threat against England, Jones was the FH to get the back line moving. No coincidence we lost with Jones at 10!!

Agree there totally Jones had a poor game not helped by Phillips poor play

Hook against us played well for 30 mins tops, then his play dipped drastically ............. coinciding with us waking up and our blindside and scrumhalf closing him down.

How he got MOM i would never know

Gatland said the best attacking 6N display was against England and Jones certainly did move the welsh ball around and mixed the play, I can't disagree with him there. Hook replaced Jones after 65 mins when Wales were in control after that well watch the video

I thought Hook had a great match against Italy and for the first 30 against us, but in all honesty that was it, he was generally poor against Ireland and France, and from the 30th min against us.

i think it would be interesting for peoples opinions of Priestland considering the discussion going about Hook and Jones, after all in my opinion (am an O's fan) priestland has by far been the best 10 in wales this season, not for just attacking but his consistency.

welshy824 wrote:yes an aware 10, which should be priestland, and i still find it stupid that people think jones is past it, he as part of the scarlet backline caused some cracking tries this season, i mean look at the first try from this,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7YKNn2JmGk

the question we ought to be asking is why cant the welsh backline do something like this? i mean after all both hook, Jones and (priestland although not had enough gametime) get the welsh backline to play like this?

great clips


i want knoyle and priestland for wales now...!

yeh i think they both need more exposure as thats what the scarlets can do behind what is usually an out muscled pack compared to some other packs (ospreys, Blues, leinster etc)

That footage proves two things:

1. Take a look at who played fly half in most of those games - Stephen Jones! He certainly did get his back line moving!

2. It's a myth the Scarlets pack were well beaten last season. Leicester and the Ospreys gave us stuffings but apart from that our pack was very competetive and exemplified themselves in the loose.

I think that if you are going to play Jon Davies in the centre then Morgan Stoddart needs to be start (either wing or fullback it doesn't matter) as those two seem to have an ability to read each others game and be on the shoulder of each other most the time (look at most of either of their tries in that video).


TBS - I agree, and have said numerous times, Stevo is a good attacking fly half, however in the welsh jersey (at the moment) he appears to be stiffled, whether that is lack of faith in those outside him, or a game plan I don't know. Also with regards to the Scarlets pack (especially in the footage) Turnbull has stood out as a major stealer of the ball, and would IMO deserve a bench slot in the RWC if not a starting role.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I think that if you are going to play Jon Davies in the centre then Morgan Stoddart needs to be start (either wing or fullback it doesn't matter) as those two seem to have an ability to read each others game and be on the shoulder of each other most the time (look at most of either of their tries in that video).


TBS - I agree, and have said numerous times, Stevo is a good attacking fly half, however in the welsh jersey (at the moment) he appears to be stiffled, whether that is lack of faith in those outside him, or a game plan I don't know. Also with regards to the Scarlets pack (especially in the footage) Turnbull has stood out as a major stealer of the ball, and would IMO deserve a bench slot in the RWC if not a starting role.

Agreed. Agreed. Agreed.

i think looking at the scarlet backline compared to the welsh backline the scarlets have a creative center in King, (not saying jd2 isint creative its just king seems to manage to produce spaces to put people in) and the welsh backline dont have that player currently (although hook can do that)

i think that is where one problem is and the other is the speed of the ball from rucks and things, i mean if you looked at the 1st try it was a prop who got the ball out quickly as there was no scrum half, yet with wales phillips waits too long to pass it out