Wales. The Fijians are coming...

Fiji have beaten Samoa in the Pacific Nations Cup in a contest between two of Wales' World Cup opponents.

Hosts Fiji, who had lost their opening match against Tonga, crossed for five tries in a 36-18 win in Lautoka.

Fiji and Samoa are among Wales' Pool D opponents in the World Cup in New Zealand later this year.

In the competition's other match Japan, who had lost their opening fixture against Samoa, beat Tonga 28-27.

The our teams have won and lost one game apiece and honours will be decided in the third and final round to be played in Lautoka on Wednesday.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/14094694.stm

Who'll bet that Wales don't get out of their group again?

I am pretty confident that Wales have learnt their lesson now. They have been taught it twice...!

Some may say that if you don't learn after being taught the same lesson twice, then you'll never pick it up.

twice bitten, thrice shy?

or

keep getting bitten over and over?

I've got to be honest it does worry me that we won't get out of our group - the fact that we should get out worries me as I can see us raising our game and giving it our all to heroically lose to SA, then with the form our players have displayed over the last 2 years or so they'll assume that they've arrived at that level (i.e pushing the Top 3 close) and then won't put in much effort and scrape past Somoa and loose against Fiji.

But maybe that's just me - but I do worry that we've got an out of form FB & SH, and no settled partnerships at SH/10, Center, or our back 3.

I cant see Wales losing this time. We might not play well or look good in getting out of our group, but we will do it. It will be up the jumper boring rugby, the way it should be against these sort of teams.

After what Wales have been going through the past two years, i am confident that there must be a insatiable hunger and determination inside each and every player to prove the critics wrong and turn their ship around.

Wales is a proud rugby nation that will have a dogged determination and focus come RWC time.

I know they will qualify.

No you don't.

Historically Wales have had the backs but not the forwards now it seems we are the other way around.

We have a very strong front 3, a solid second row partnership and whilst they are young I think we have a very dynamic and strong back row combo.

If we can learn our lessons and keep it tight against the Samoans and Fijians then I don't think they could live with lets say:

Jenkins Rees Jones
AWJ
Davies
Lydiate Delve Warburton

If we decide to play it their way then with the indecision as to what our backline will be then it could go pear shape again but I honestly don't think that will happen this time.

My concern is that we'll approach the opening match against South Africa thinking that a win would be a bonus but half-expecting to lose, and assuming we'll win all our remaining group games. That would be idiocy in a group like ours - there's nothing to say that a defeat to the Springboks would be our only pool defeat. We can't afford to 'throw' (for want of a better word) any matches. We should be aiming to win all of them.

I agree with what you say bedford - the problem is IF we play Delve at 8 (as opposed to the more likely choice of R Jones or J Thomas) -

and IF we try and keep it tight and use the correct tactics as opposed to what we did last time we played Fiji.

I'm not that confident that we'll do either somehow...

The Welsh will struggle against Fuji as there is too many egos in the squad who believe they can mix it with the best, they will try an compete with Fuji and come off 2nd best unless they adopt a territory game and win most of the line outs and stop kicking the ball into open play.

But then again you never know with Wales.

I think it's the bet of the WC that was don't make the quarters. 9/2 not to make it! Bargain. My only worry i's that Wales coil lose to Fiji and Fiji lose to Samoa, Wales beat Samoa and they're all tied. Wales will be handsomely beaten by south Africa. We couldn't beat them in Cardiff last summer with our first team and they're made something like 13 changes!
For me the worry isn't in the pack, although if Rees gets injured god help us. Our 2nd row are overrated IMO too, but the backs. We are 2 months are 3 warm up games away and I couldn't tell you who'll be starting!
9. Phillips. If gatland sees him as his best bet, he will have to start the warm ups due to a lack of rugby.
10. A has been or a guy who only has played a handful of games at 10 in 2 tears.
Centre pairing?????? Roberts, Davies, hook, Henson. Who knows!
Wings. Shane. Yes, but has been suffering with injury. Halfpenny injured?? Brew. No. Stoddart?? North???
15. Byrne. No form but he's warrens GOLDen boy! Stoddart?? Even hook. Please no.

It does make for 3 very interesting warm up games though, even if it doesn't fill you with any confidence in the management.

BATH_BTGOG wrote:The Welsh will struggle against Fuji as there is too many egos in the squad who believe they can mix it with the best, they will try an compete with Fuji and come off 2nd best unless they adopt a territory game and win most of the line outs and stop kicking the ball into open play.

I have a feeling that the Fiji game will be very regimented, along the lines of the bore fest we saw at Murrayfield this winter. But it worked and we won.

It is a very tough group, I think, no I hope that all the groups have some so called minnows who could cause a few shocks, if not even the occasional big upset.

I expect Wales will beat Fiji easily enough.

welshjohn369
Mate you have got to ignore the oneliner WUMs, otherwise this site will freefall into what the old 606 became

Bedfordwelsh
Morning me old mucker, the only issue with your front row is stength in depth (Paul James is the only able deputy) and ensuring Adam Jones & Matthew Rees is fit and healthy, I think your main problem with your forwards is AWJ is not good enough at the highest level, and Bradley Davies 2011 version was a shadow of the 2010 model. Personally if Davies form is still not there then I would much rather Ryan Jones at 5 with Charteris at 4

The only other issue which is controversial is style of play........ if you try to attack Fiji the "Welsh Way" "we'll score more tries than you cavalier" style then you will lose, the Fijians are massive players throughout and you need to have attacking players who can also defend well

flyhalffactory wrote:
Bedfordwelsh
Morning me old mucker, the only issue with your front row is stength in depth (Paul James is the only able deputy) and ensuring Adam Jones & Matthew Rees is fit and healthy, I think your main problem with your forwards is AWJ is not good enough at the highest level, and Bradley Davies 2011 version was a shadow of the 2010 model. Personally if Davies form is still not there then I would much rather Ryan Jones at 5 with Charteris at 4

Sorry to interject here, but I think that the welsh front five depth isnt too bad, maybe that is because it is merely better than it was...

Tighthead options are Adam Jones and Craig Mitchell, I think Mitchell like Paul James should he can step up to the level required. I also think Richard Hibbard is an able deputy for Lions First Choice Rees.

The Welsh tight five played well in the Autumn, and without Gethin Jenkins too.

I would also say that there is a bit of a myth about Strength and Depth at international level. I dont think many teams have much more depth than one first class player and an able deputy. I would be interested to hear your thoughts?

Full back i's where I worry about Wales depth. We have Byrne, who's been out of sorts for 2 seasons and not a lot else. There i's San fish, Barry Davies and other than that it i's playing players out of position.
I also worry about our ball carrying. Bradley does his bit, but if Ryan jones gets in ahead of faletau then we will really struggle.

Fly,

I disagree about the front row. James has proved more tthan an able deputy for Jenkins whilst Mitchell proved himself against the best in the AIs.

Hibbard hasn't had much exposure so I suppose if Rees gets a knock that could be a weak spot.

AWJ and Davies are still the pairing for me and I think both are more than capable of operating at the highest level. That saud even if we went with Jones and Charterris or any combo of the 4 we should still be more than capable of beating Fiji and Samoa if tactics are corretc.

flyhalffactory wrote:
welshjohn369
Mate you have got to ignore the oneliner WUMs, otherwise this site will freefall into what the old 606 became

Bedfordwelsh
Morning me old mucker, the only issue with your front row is stength in depth (Paul James is the only able deputy) and ensuring Adam Jones & Matthew Rees is fit and healthy, I think your main problem with your forwards is AWJ is not good enough at the highest level, and Bradley Davies 2011 version was a shadow of the 2010 model. Personally if Davies form is still not there then I would much rather Ryan Jones at 5 with Charteris at 4

The only other issue which is controversial is style of play........ if you try to attack Fiji the "Welsh Way" "we'll score more tries than you cavalier" style then you will lose, the Fijians are massive players throughout and you need to have attacking players who can also defend well

So what you saying....it's ok to allow the wum's to thrive and we sit back and take it. This entire thread is a wum. I don't wum I react to them. If the Admin and Mods get their act together then we'll ne ok.


So when england lose to Scotland and do not make it through to the QF's will Johnson get the boot?

WelshJohn, don't rise to Great White.

You only have to look at his posts here on 606v2: a couple of posts about Leicester Tigers, and the rest of his forty-odd posts are either blatant wind-ups, complaints about others being WUMS, or personal attacks with absolutely no rugby content at all.

He is not worth getting worried about as it is blatantly obvious that calling him a half-wit would be to compliment him!

welshjohn369

What I mean is that we should just report them to the mods rather than resort to a slanging match which is what they have started the thread for

Mate the good posters on here are the one we should have banter with............and there are loads on this thread alone

If you ignore them as well they will go back to playing with their toys

i know people are calling ours the group of death but i see no reason why wales wont qualify for the quarters, fiji drew to basically our 2nd string team, and i believe wales can not only qualify but top their group

maestegmafia wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:
Bedfordwelsh
Morning me old mucker, the only issue with your front row is stength in depth (Paul James is the only able deputy) and ensuring Adam Jones & Matthew Rees is fit and healthy, I think your main problem with your forwards is AWJ is not good enough at the highest level, and Bradley Davies 2011 version was a shadow of the 2010 model. Personally if Davies form is still not there then I would much rather Ryan Jones at 5 with Charteris at 4

Sorry to interject here, but I think that the welsh front five depth isnt too bad, maybe that is because it is merely better than it was...

Tighthead options are Adam Jones and Craig Mitchell, I think Mitchell like Paul James should he can step up to the level required. I also think Richard Hibbard is an able deputy for Lions First Choice Rees.

The Welsh tight five played well in the Autumn, and without Gethin Jenkins too.

I would also say that there is a bit of a myth about Strength and Depth at international level. I dont think many teams have much more depth than one first class player and an able deputy. I would be interested to hear your thoughts?

Fair call mate
James impressed me with scrummaging immensely but I think he is still off the pace in the loose, Gethin is streets ahead of him here. Mitchell I don't know too much about but yes alot of my Blues/Os colleagues talk good things about him

Flankers
I just think that AWJ gave away a few penalties and lost a few line outs during 2010/11 in the intense HC and International matches, he also was found wanting in the loose play, I thought that Ryan Jones played alot better at lock and he carries the ball well. Bradley Davies form dipped last season and whilst Charteris was injured I would like to see him partner RJ for you guys in at least one warm up game

8 Faletua, great going forward, great ball carrier but not convinced with his defence.

Personally I'd like to see this pack against England

Back row - Delve, Warbuton, Lydiate (close call with Turnbull)
Locks - Jones, Davies (close call with Charteris)
Front row - Jenkins, Rees, Jones

Did you have to remind us that the Fijians are coming?

Fly,

No way is it a close call between Lydiate and Turnbull.

Dan has been the form No6 in wales for the past 18 months and against the BaaBaas added a much needed bally carrying aspect to his game.

That said competotion for places is waht we need and you can add McCusker to the list as well.

Fly
Why are you not convinced by Faletau's defence? I think it's decent, particularly his ability to track back and make tackles. A lot of games at the Dragons I've been particularly impressed by it, as he makes tackles he doesn't really have the right to make.

Just curious is all.

Bedford
I can only tell you my feeling, I watched Tunbull (albeit on the box) give Collins a lesson, altho his form dropped a bit towards the end of the season.

More importantly in the Dragons v Scarlets game (Invite from a dragons fan only time I have ever been to Rodders ......... what a great atmosphere), and also in the game at PYS Turnbull IMHO was the better player particularly in ball carrying and set play

flyhalffactory wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:
Bedfordwelsh
Morning me old mucker, the only issue with your front row is stength in depth (Paul James is the only able deputy) and ensuring Adam Jones & Matthew Rees is fit and healthy, I think your main problem with your forwards is AWJ is not good enough at the highest level, and Bradley Davies 2011 version was a shadow of the 2010 model. Personally if Davies form is still not there then I would much rather Ryan Jones at 5 with Charteris at 4

Sorry to interject here, but I think that the welsh front five depth isnt too bad, maybe that is because it is merely better than it was...

Tighthead options are Adam Jones and Craig Mitchell, I think Mitchell like Paul James should he can step up to the level required. I also think Richard Hibbard is an able deputy for Lions First Choice Rees.

The Welsh tight five played well in the Autumn, and without Gethin Jenkins too.

I would also say that there is a bit of a myth about Strength and Depth at international level. I dont think many teams have much more depth than one first class player and an able deputy. I would be interested to hear your thoughts?

Fair call mate
James impressed me with scrummaging immensely but I think he is still off the pace in the loose, Gethin is streets ahead of him here. Mitchell I don't know too much about but yes alot of my Blues/Os colleagues talk good things about him

Flankers
I just think that AWJ gave away a few penalties and lost a few line outs during 2010/11 in the intense HC and International matches, he also was found wanting in the loose play, I thought that Ryan Jones played alot better at lock and he carries the ball well. Bradley Davies form dipped last season and whilst Charteris was injured I would like to see him partner RJ for you guys in at least one warm up game

8 Faletua, great going forward, great ball carrier but not convinced with his defence.

Personally I'd like to see this pack against England

Back row - Delve, Warbuton, Lydiate (close call with Turnbull)
Locks - Jones, Davies (close call with Charteris)
Front row - Jenkins, Rees, Jones

Always interesting to hear your perspective.

I must say i dont agree with all your points but a players performance is a subjective thing and we all see things from different angles and different perspectives.

I agree with you that AW Jones has given away some foolish penalties, but i disagree about his work in the loose where i rate him very highly.

And I agree about Bradley Davies, that he was not making the impact he was, but i didnt think he shirked a hit or a charge once. He is a young guy, lets hope it was a mere case of second season syndrome.

RiscaRev

TBH I have only seen him a few times and on a couple of occasions his defence (not his bravery) was suspect, largely due to his positional play.

Against us he came on as a sub I think it was for Bearman, after that we ran riot (2 tries 2 pens) Visser run over him twice and could have had a hat-trick, OK Visser is a lump but still...

I am sure he is on a learning curve particularly in with the Welsh team, but sorry he is not in the same area as Delve who is having an awesome season in a much harder league

flyhalffactory wrote:RiscaRev

TBH I have only seen him a few times and on a couple of occasions his defence (not his bravery) was suspect, largely due to his positional play.

Against us he came on as a sub I think it was for Bearman, after that we ran riot (2 tries 2 pens) Visser run over him twice and could have had a hat-trick, OK Visser is a lump but still...

I am sure he is on a learning curve particularly in with the Welsh team, but sorry he is not in the same area as Delve who is having an awesome season in a much harder league

Thats a fair comment, but we have to account that Faletau is still a very young player. He will learn.

I would rather see a player of the Experience of Delve in the Team for the World Cup, but, he has not played or trained with the Welsh squad for a long time. He is though a talented player and the way he adapted to the Super Rugby at the rebels should see him fit back in to the Welsh Squad just as quickly.

hopefully he will also bring some valuable knowledge of our future opposition.

Even as a Dragons (and Huge Faletau) fan Delve would still be my first choice at No8 and would have been for years now.

I banged his drum when he was at Bath and have seen him planty of times at Kingsholm were he has, on occasions single handeldy carried the team.

Maesteg

One thing I have to say now on this site

I have been everywhere in the world watching rugby, played (a million yrs ago) at a decent level and enjoyed it all....... but I was blown away with the atmosphere at Rodney Parade what a geat crowd and afterwards I could have chatted all night

Also I think young Faletau (if managed correctly) is going to be a massive star, along with Tuperic, and Ben Morgan you have some awesome talent coming through

Flyhalf.
Really faketau's defence is pretty good. He was awesome against Collins at the parade. He was also impressive on his Wales debut. He i's still very raw, but I just hope ge doesn't bulk up too much as he's an awesome athlete. Wales do have some very talented back row forwards knocking around and the dragons in particular. Personally I'm hoping to see more of the young jevon groves. Looks good from what I've seen and may well be used during the WC.

You might see delve, faletau and r, jones all feature in the group stages. Selection i's going to be fascinating .

In the 2nd row. I can only see it being Bradley and AW jones. But these two really have to step their games up.

Fair enough Fly. I didn't get to see the Embra game at all (up in Scotland). I think he's improved immensely and he is being coached well as far as I know (as things like how he now carries the ball better and not in one hand are evident now).

I think my reactions would be as follows;

If Delve got picked at 8 over him, well I'd accept that.
If Jones did, well it wouldn't float my boat too much, but at least he's a good leader to our young flankers.
If JT did, well I'd be livid.

By the way, I agree about Rodney Parade and I'm glad you have experienced it. A few people I know won't go due to it's location etc, but it's a great atmosphere there and one that only the Scarlets in Wales could hope to match (Regions wise, due to stadium types). At times in the Cardiff Blues game I was only able to stand there in admiration as the sound bounced off the Hazell Terrace roof.

flyhalffactory wrote:Maesteg

One thing I have to say now on this site

I have been everywhere in the world watching rugby, played (a million yrs ago) at a decent level and enjoyed it all....... but I was blown away with the atmosphere at Rodney Parade what a geat crowd and afterwards I could have chatted all night

Also I think young Faletau (if managed correctly) is going to be a massive star, along with Tuperic, and Ben Morgan you have some awesome talent coming through

Rodney Parade is a little Gem of a ground, as is Sardis Road, The Knoll, for that matter so is Thormund Park or many many others.. Friendly fans and a cracking pint and pie too.

Hope to see you down the Liberty too sometime, i am usually in the East stand, the steak slice is very good as is the banter... usually aimed at the home team as much as the away...

Loves dave. Had a stroll around there the weekend before last. Just checking out the new stand. Looks proper posh as we'd say in the port.
The back of the hazell has had a new coating which looks a bit better, allthough the guttering was still hanging off!
Risca why won't people come down because of hhe location??
It's right in the centre of town although there are a few drop outs usually knocking around I must admit.

Keep technical and keep tight.

Any loose ball goes into the stands.

Defend like demons

Discipline.

You should win easily, although (these are the Fijians after all) not comfortably. Ice baths on standby!

Just hope the KIA, WIA and MIA lists after playing these three physical sides in the pools don't get too bad and compromise your chances in the knock out stages.

Not necessarily people from within our region MOG. I think people just live by stereotypes.

Anyway, back on topic. I said it yesterday, but I think we will get through the group. Probably more worried about facing Samoa still (despite the recent Samoa v Fiji result), but I think we should get through. Third time lucky and all that.

I think the samoans will pose more of a threat than the Fijians at the moment. They look a little lacking in their team training.....

This may improve as we move nearer the wc...but the Samoans look a little better.

Geordie. But Fiji comfortably beat Samoa.

TrailApe wrote:
Just hope the KIA, WIA and MIA lists after playing these three physical sides in the pools don't get too bad and compromise your chances in the knock out stages.

KIA, WIA and MIA would be big issues in our group.

At least Wales have the advantage of having played the PI teams like Fiji and Samoa reasonably recently. I think that SA last played Samoa in 1999 and Fiji in 2007 and that was a cracker of a match.

Risca

As an adoped Welshman (you are all bl00dy nuts!!!) I think most of "us" agree JT shouldnt be there

Its never more appropriate the saying

"Forwards win the game Backs by how much"

Than its going to be against Fiji thats going to be your key game

I'll think you will get through the rounds guys

Marched. You're right. South Africa v Fiji was an awesome game. There were points in that game where you thought Fiji were going to win. It might not be a group of death, but it's surely the most fascinating group.

"Geordie. But Fiji comfortably beat Samoa.."

Yeah so i see...i missed that one...what was the score. I only saw the Tonga score, when they put 40 on Fiji....

manofgwent wrote:Marched. You're right. South Africa v Fiji was an awesome game. There were points in that game where you thought Fiji were going to win. It might not be a group of death, but it's surely the most fascinating group.

The most impressive outcome in the upset stakes would be if Wales sneak a win over SA, then one of the islanders do to. Leaving Wales as group toppers and SA not Qualifying for the quarters.

It is a tough group and the permutations, variables and possibilities make it a very interesting prospect.

SA have a 100% record against Fiji and Samoa, but they dont seem to be the team they were in 2007, I dont think they are as confident of winning as per usual.

Lets see how the Tri-Nations pans out.

Maesteg. Fingers crossed. There will be some games in the other groups that will be walkovers. But I think this group will be really tight. If I remember rightly, Namibia weren't too bad in 07.

Flyhalf, our forwards definitely need to front up against the PI's. They didn't wanna know the last time we played Fiji & Samoa. Result = a draw and an un-convincing 7 point win. Our lineout isn't great, but better than theirs as is our scrum. Hook, Byrne and Halfpenny may start so we can keep pinning them down in their own 22 where our forwards must dominate them and perhaps we'll get some points on the board. If we're deep in our half but outside the 22, we should run it. The last thing we want is big PI's running back hard at us. Pack I would go for, is our traditional one:

Jenkins, Rees, Jones, AWJones, Davies, Lydiate, Warburton, Jones (best defending and breakdown forwards imo). Charteris, James and Faletau to be involved in the 2nd half though.

When it comes to South Africa I think that game will be all about defence. Our defence was on top and it left them very frustrated the last time we faced them. We went in with a good half time lead, slipped up for 10 minutes and they scored 2 tries helping them get in front and eventually win. Also discipline as Steyns big boot will punish us again.

I'd back Wales to qualify. Obviously they'll want to win against SA, but the Samoa & Fiji games are pretty much must win, so it'll be interesting how they mange their players and what teams they field. Samoa is their second match after SA, arguably their two most physical matches in a row. The Fiji game comes after Namibia, so key first choice players can be rested before, whereas Fiji face Samoa the game before and the Boks the game before that.

I think Samoa will provide the tougher challenge. Fiji may just have beaten them, but I think it's worth noting that Fiji were playing at home and that both sides were missing a number of first choice players, so it isn't necessarily representative of how the teams will perform at the WC. Samoa didn't have A. Tuilagi, H. Tuilagi, Mapusua, Fotuali'i, G. Pisi, P. Williams (he seems to be their normal place kicker), Taulafo, Johnston, Thompson. Fiji were without Koyamaibole, Qera, Rabeni, Tagicakibau, Bai, Lovobalavu.