Should a sexist institution like St Georges host the Open ?

First topic message reminder :

Bearing in mind that the Open is the pinnacle event in the British golfing calendar, should it be awarded to a club that will not permit half the British population as a member ? OK, it probably wont even consider 99.9% of the population but if you are a woman it's not even up for debate. I believe someone high up at the R&A was recently asked this question and his answer was it wasn't up to the R&A to influence social engineering. What a wonderfully enlightened man he must have been.....
So for me I can accept that they have a right to be a male only institution, however I'd equally have to say that such an institution should not be considered fitting to host the Open.
I thought Id post this thread after freading an article by Matthew Syed in this mornings Times by the way...not a Guardian in sight....

leinsterbaby wrote:

Diggers wrote:What you mean is its not the same because calling someone a snob doesnt offend you. The fact that others have said it doesnt alter the fact that you clearly carry a prejudice yourself.
Personally Im prejudiced against people calling me pal...shoot me now.
Sorry was that an insensitive comment to make as well ?

I don't understand how you could possibly be offended because I didn't call you a snob however you did brand Irish people "potato munchers" I'm Irish and I find that offensive. You are digging a hole diggers.

And you are trying to discriminate discrimination. Labelling a group of people "snobbish" is as discriminatory as any other label - whether you like one and dislike the other is irrelevant.

leinsterbaby wrote:

sharrison01 wrote:Leinster, I'm not sure how much you follow the golf board but there is constantly inter-British banter going on but it is just that - banter. I'm sure that there was no offence meant by this comment so let's not get into some historical and political debate when this thread is, quite simply, about golf.

And surely you not being the first person to label the R&A as snobbish has no bearing on anything - the same argument could apply to said comments that you are unhappy about?

Look I'd rather talk about golf too but if the "comment of the month" on this board is that the Irish are "Potato Munchers" then the standard of golf "banter" would appear to be a little low.

You are choosing to take offence to one derogatory remark, which as a regular poster and from following the poster I see as banter, and then tar us all with the same brush from a second post that agrees with this. This thread is now on it's fifth page and all but these two comments have been interesting and focused almost solely on golf

Diggers wrote:Im not offended by you not calling me a snob. Try and keep up, Im pointing out that other people you refer to as being snobbish may do and you are simply picking and choosing what prejudices are OK.
Who made you the prejudice police to decide who cant and cant find something offensive ?

So based on the fact that you feel that I may have offended someone else other than yourself you thought it necessary to call Irish people, including myself "potato munchers". Am I clear? Obviously dealing with fairly classy individual here.

Nope, wrong again. I made my remark purely as a joke to lighten up the debate.
Its only in response to you remarks about prejudice that Ive pointed out that you seem to carry a bit of prejudice yourself which is clearly evident to others on here.
Cant have it both ways...pal.

The fact that you find casual racism amusing reveals a lot about you.

The fact that you cant even admit to your own prejudices, which clearly are not said in jest, reveals a lot about you.

I have no problem with people thinking I am prejudiced because I believe an organisations selection criteria is outdated and snobbish. I'd much rather that than to be a casual racist who makes insensitive comments about a nation who lost a lot of people to starvation. If you cannot understand the difference then that's your problem.

The famine happened 270 years ago, did you know a lot of people who suffered ? Or is just a good excuse to have another chip on your shoulder I wonder.

Who's got the biggest dad? That's the way to sort this out.

Come on lads - Leinester, if you follow these golf boards then you will understand that Diggers meant nothing derogatory by his remarks and is subsequently pointing out that you yourself have been guilty of prejudice. Casual racism is a bit of a labelling to something that was meant as a bit of banter and not meant with any malice.

Ok case closed. Still think NI is as good an option as any.

Fair enough, I respectfully disagree...

How could anyone be offended by being called a potato muncher? It's no different to being called a sweaty or a sassenach.

The simple fact which you cannot grasp is that NI doesn't have the requisite facilities to hold an Open in the manner that the R&A would like it to be held. It is irrelevant that McIlroy or Mcdowell have won majors. I didn't see The Open going to Royal Aberdeen when Lawrie won at Carnoustie, nor did Welwyn Garden City get it when Faldo won it three times.

Leinster, I'm terribly sorry if you get offended so easily, but it's been pointed out in clear and nauseating detail why NI cannot hold the Open at present, please accept it and move on.
Also, there is no such thing as the Irish race, so you cannot accuse anyone of casual racism.

super_realist wrote:How could anyone be offended by being called a potato muncher? It's no different to being called a sweaty or a sassenach.

The simple fact which you cannot grasp is that NI doesn't have the requisite facilities to hold an Open in the manner that the R&A would like it to be held. It is irrelevant that McIlroy or Mcdowell have won majors. I didn't see The Open going to Royal Aberdeen when Lawrie won at Carnoustie, nor did Welwyn Garden City get it when Faldo won it three times.

Leinster, I'm terribly sorry if you get offended so easily, but it's been pointed out in clear and nauseating detail why NI cannot hold the Open at present, please accept it and move on.
Also, there is no such thing as the Irish race, so you cannot accuse anyone of casual racism.

The ignorance on display in this post is startling. Firstly I have explained how being called a potato muncher is insensitive and derogatory.

Secondly Sassenach is the Gaelic word for English man derived originally from the word Saxon. Never heard of calling English people sweaty. News to me.

Finally as you are from St Andrews it's no surprise you don't want the open to go to NI.

super_realist wrote:How could anyone be offended by being called a potato muncher? It's no different to being called a sweaty or a sassenach.

The simple fact which you cannot grasp is that NI doesn't have the requisite facilities to hold an Open in the manner that the R&A would like it to be held. It is irrelevant that McIlroy or Mcdowell have won majors. I didn't see The Open going to Royal Aberdeen when Lawrie won at Carnoustie, nor did Welwyn Garden City get it when Faldo won it three times.

Leinster, I'm terribly sorry if you get offended so easily, but it's been pointed out in clear and nauseating detail why NI cannot hold the Open at present, please accept it and move on.
Also, there is no such thing as the Irish race, so you cannot accuse anyone of casual racism.

It's not up to you to decide whether it's offensive or not. If the target feels it's offensive, then it is.

Sassenach does come from the latin for Saxon and has been used for centuries by Scots for years as a derogatory term for the English. Sweaty....sweaty sock.....jock. English term, or Welsh or whatever I guess for the Scots.
Seriously Leinster, Im from the north of England and the English govts over the years have done their best to trample all over the place. Yes, a lot of them really havent been very nice people but to bleat on about something that happened almost 300 years ago as if it causes you pain is pathetic.

Leinster, I'm more than happy for The Open to go to NI and be held less frequently in St.Andrews, although I play there, you 'd know if you were a regular poster that I don't rate it as an Open venue.
So I'd be more than happy for it to go to NI, however THE FACT IS THAT IT DOESN'T HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE (due no doubt to all the bog trotting, knee cap smashing, bomb planters ( )

I imagine those who are offended by the term "Tatty Mucher" (or more precisely Wanabee Tatty Munchers) are the type who read The Guardian and love to get offended on other peoples bahalf. I could almost understand it if the "famine" happened the other week, but it was bloody ages ago, I don't start crying about the highland clearances do I, and I bet the Welsh don't get to miffed about being called a Sheep Sh**er. It's hardly a big deal is it.

I got into a discussion on here the other day with regards to casual racism. When it should be described as casual xenophobia, as no one has shown a hatred to the Irish people.

liverbnz wrote:

super_realist wrote:How could anyone be offended by being called a potato muncher? It's no different to being called a sweaty or a sassenach.

The simple fact which you cannot grasp is that NI doesn't have the requisite facilities to hold an Open in the manner that the R&A would like it to be held. It is irrelevant that McIlroy or Mcdowell have won majors. I didn't see The Open going to Royal Aberdeen when Lawrie won at Carnoustie, nor did Welwyn Garden City get it when Faldo won it three times.

Leinster, I'm terribly sorry if you get offended so easily, but it's been pointed out in clear and nauseating detail why NI cannot hold the Open at present, please accept it and move on.
Also, there is no such thing as the Irish race, so you cannot accuse anyone of casual racism.

It's not up to you to decide whether it's offensive or not. If the target feels it's offensive, then it is.

I would agree with you if the target has not already made discriminatory remarks about other people. If they start off by labelling groups of people and then get labelled themselves and moan about it then maybe they should think more carefully about their approach and consider how they might provoke such terms.

Diggers wrote:Sassenach does come from the latin for Saxon and has been used for centuries by Scots for years as a derogatory term for the English. Sweaty....sweaty sock.....jock. English term, or Welsh or whatever I guess for the Scots.
Seriously Leinster, Im from the north of England and the English govts over the years have done their best to trample all over the place. Yes, a lot of them really havent been very nice people but to bleat on about something that happened almost 300 years ago as if it causes you pain is pathetic.

Sassenach in Ireland just means English person without any offensive connontations. Was not aware of it's use in Scotland. In any case not sure of it's relevance as I don't think I have ever used the word, certainly not in this thread.

The famine marked the beginning of hundreds of years of tension between our two nations and a catalogue of injustices. The term potato muncher is symbolic of the troubles between the two nations. In recent years a lot of progress has been made. The recent Queens visit was a huge step towards lasting peace. If you wish to anger people from Ireland feel free to call them whatever you wish but don't be surprised if they form a low opinion of you.

Yes Yes Leinster, we are all aware of the connotations, just not why you hold onto something so vociferously as it happened hundreds of years ago, so I have no idea why you are reacting as if someone has just handed you a dead baby.

Like I said earlier, I don't get offended if an Englishman mentions the highland clearances as that was just as devastating as the tatty famine. Getting offended about something that happened centuries ago is very strange indeed.

If someone from Ireland is so precious about being ribbed then quite frankly I couldnt give a monkeys about their opinion of me. Especially when they themselves have no qualms whatsoever about their own class prejudices. Ive no time for hypocrites.

It is amazing me how this debate has gone on for so long?!? It's as if those that believe that NI are capable of hosting an Open feel that there is some sort of English/Scottish conspiracy to keep them out of the loop?!?!?

The R&A would not be expected to award it to a completely new venue because they have a responsibility to protect the history of The Open and a part of this is limiting the venues. This means that Royal Portrush is the only viable option.

-The town has a population under 10000 and they struggled to cope with 6000 people arriving for the Seniors Open.

-The estimate is that they could not cope with more than 15000 people a day, when an average Open might expect 50000 people a day.

-This will make it difficult to attract sponsors because less people means less exposure and food/drink/merchandise sales will be lower than average, again, due to less people.

-Royal Portrush would need a considerable financial input from the government. This seems reasonable given the money that they should get back from people going there for The Open but once the event is finished, the new hotels etc will make it look like Greece after 2004 and South Africa after 2010- lots of unused tourism. Or maybe even look over the border to Ireland to see what an unsustainable boom can do.

-With these infrastructure problems, awarding Royal Portrush The Open would be disrespectful and unfair to venues like RSG and Hoylake that had The Open taken away from them until they improved their infrastructures.

-The R&A policy for choosing a venue has never had any bearing on how individual players are performing. This has never happened before and would again be unfair to previous Open winners that have always accepted this.


I think that The Open at Royal Portrush would be a fantastic spectacle but for all of the reasons above it should not happen. If anyone disagrees or has any other thoughts on this reasoning then I would love to hear them. Otherwise, blaming R&A snobbery, MI5, the CIA, the illuminati or any other group of people is just plain ridiculous.

Diggers, I'm alarmed just how much I'm agreeing with you on this.

leinsterbaby wrote:

Diggers wrote:Sassenach does come from the latin for Saxon and has been used for centuries by Scots for years as a derogatory term for the English. Sweaty....sweaty sock.....jock. English term, or Welsh or whatever I guess for the Scots.
Seriously Leinster, Im from the north of England and the English govts over the years have done their best to trample all over the place. Yes, a lot of them really havent been very nice people but to bleat on about something that happened almost 300 years ago as if it causes you pain is pathetic.

Sassenach in Ireland just means English person without any offensive connontations. Was not aware of it's use in Scotland. In any case not sure of it's relevance as I don't think I have ever used the word, certainly not in this thread.

The famine marked the beginning of hundreds of years of tension between our two nations and a catalogue of injustices. The term potato muncher is symbolic of the troubles between the two nations. In recent years a lot of progress has been made. The recent Queens visit was a huge step towards lasting peace. If you wish to anger people from Ireland feel free to call them whatever you wish but don't be surprised if they form a low opinion of you.

'

The reason for more peace recently is because Britain supported the US in Iraq and Afghanistan and the IRA are funded by people in the US - they could not be seen to fund terrorism against an ally in the war on terror. As for the tension, people in Britain could really not care less about the Irish - the problem in Ireland is that they know too much about their history and the problem in Britain is that they don't know enough. This will not change anytime soon because Ireland is still stuck looking at their history and Britain is intent on moving forward and creating a history...

super_realist wrote:Diggers, I'm alarmed just how much I'm agreeing with you on this.

Shove it jocko

Diggers wrote:

super_realist wrote:Diggers, I'm alarmed just how much I'm agreeing with you on this.

Shove it jocko

Listen you Northern monkey, you lot are just jocks with no brains.

Actually we better stop lest we "offend" or "anger" someone of an oversensitive and backwards looking disposition.

I'm offended by you suggesting that I might be backward looking - that would hurt my neck...

Im not a northern monkey...Im a monkey hanger !
I see the couple that won the Euromillions £161 million are Scottish. Apparently they are going to keep on working as they dont think its quite enough to retire on....

Jesus, I just looked the story up on the news, I doubt they'll live long enough to see retirement age, they look like Mr & Mrs Lowry, on the plus side the square sausage shop isn't going to go out of business anytime soon.

Just to put the record straight, sassenach is an old Scottish word, it is a term used to describe someone from the central lowlands.

It has nothing to do with the English.

I know.... I'm a sassenach

drive4show wrote:Just to put the record straight, sassenach is an old Scottish word, it is a term used to describe someone from the central lowlands.

It has nothing to do with the English.

I know.... I'm a sassenach

but are you offended?

Nope..I'm as thick skinned as a thick skinned animal in thickskinville

With the recent conversation, thought this might clear things up and widen the barriers...


The English are feeling the pinch in relation to recent events in Libya and have therefore raised their security level from "Miffed" to "Peeved." Soon, though, security levels may be raised yet again to "Irritated" or even "A Bit Cross." The English have not been "A Bit Cross" since the blitz in 1940 when tea supplies nearly ran out. Terrorists have been re-categorized from "Tiresome" to "A Bloody Nuisance." The last time the British issued a "Bloody Nuisance" warning level was in 1588, when threatened by the Spanish Armada.

The Scots have raised their threat level from "peed Off" to "Let's get the bar stewards." They don't have any other levels. This is the reason they have been used on the front line of the British army for the last 300 years.

The French government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from "Run" to "Hide." The only two higher levels in France are "Collaborate" and "Surrender." The rise was precipitated by a recent fire that destroyed France 's white flag factory, effectively paralyzing the country's military capability.

Italy has increased the alert level from "Shout Loudly and Excitedly" to "Elaborate Military Posturing." Two more levels remain: "Ineffective Combat Operations" and "Change Sides."

The Germans have increased their alert state from "Disdainful Arrogance" to "Dress in Uniform and Sing Marching Songs."

Belgians, on the other hand, are all on holiday as usual; the only threat they are worried about is NATO pulling out of Brussels .

The Spanish are all excited to see their new submarines ready to deploy. These beautifully designed subs have glass bottoms so the new Spanish navy can get a really good look at the old Spanish navy.

Australia , meanwhile, has raised its security level from "No worries" to "She'll be alright, Mate." Two more escalation levels remain: "Crikey! I think we'll need to cancel the barbie this weekend!" and "The barbie is canceled." So far no situation has ever warranted use of the final escalation level.

Sharrison that is brilliant

Mind you I feel very offended being called a 'Sweaty Sock' by a dodgy second hand car salesman from the East End of London.

Last 17 majors: Ireland 6, USA 5, South Africa 3, ROW 3.

Ireland is the true home of golf!!!!

It still doesn't have the infrastructure to hold a major championship. Peter Dawson was interviewed about it and he said just as much.
So keep searching for potatoes, because you won't be holding The Open anytime soon.

super_realist wrote:It still doesn't have the infrastructure to hold a major championship. Peter Dawson was interviewed about it and he said just as much.
So keep searching for potatoes, because you won't be holding The Open anytime soon.

Sour grapes. Another major coming home to Ireland and all you can do is keep up potato jibes. What a miserable life you must lead. Just be happy for the Irish. Flag bearers of European golf.

I'm absolutely delighted Clarke won Leinster and I'm very happy for the brass buckled, lucky charm wielding Leprechauns, but 3 major wins from NI (don't know what this has to do with the Republic of Ireland) doesn't mean you deserve to or will be hosting the Open.

Didn't say it had anything to do with ROI but all those major winners are a product of the GUI. They grew up playing on golf courses all over this island (Ireland) and they have all represented Ireland in golf. Great times for Irish golf.

6 Ireland 5 USA 3 SA ROW 3

Home of golf.

To be fair Leinster, you said Ireland is the home of golf. Clearly it isn't as it's two distinct countries with 3 major winners from each.

Great times for golfers from NI and ROI, but don't get carried away.

You could just as easily say GB &NI 3 , ROI 3, plus going back to Paddy's is a little sad anyway as it was a few years ago.

super_realist wrote:To be fair Leinster, you said Ireland is the home of golf. Clearly it isn't as it's two distinct countries with 3 major winners from each.

Great times for golfers from NI and ROI, but don't get carried away.

You could just as easily say GB &NI 3 , ROI 3, plus going back to Paddy's is a little sad anyway as it was a few years ago.

Ireland is an island with two jurisdictions both under the GUI. All golfers from Ireland represent Ireland. They are products of the golf union of Ireland. Remind me who was the last English man to win a major?

Home of golf! 6 majors. Flag bearers of world golf.

I'm not even English so what are you on about.
For the umpteenth time I'm delighted that NI has three major winners. I couldn't care less about Harrington's as they were ages ago and he isn't British.
You're still not the home of golf, even if you won every major in perpetuity.

Home of golf - that must make Serbia the home of tennis then?

Can we keep on thread please? If you want to conduct a yah boo sucks kind of discussion, can I suggest you do it via PMs?

super_realist wrote:I'm not even English so what are you on about.
For the umpteenth time I'm delighted that NI has three major winners. I couldn't care less about Harrington's as they were ages ago and he isn't British.
You're still not the home of golf, even if you won every major in perpetuity.

Bitter English man

leinster

I think it is you who is the bitter one.
The Open will not be going to NI anytime soon, as any sensible person knows.
It will definately not be going to ROI as that is an independent country with it's own Open Champoinship.
I can understand your pride in the golfers who play for ROI and NI but please try to stop making political points in an area where they are unwelcome.

Doon the Water wrote:The Open will not be going to NI anytime soon, as any sensible person knows.

Personally, I think it should. Interestingly, I heard Peter Dawson on the radio this morning saying they'll be having a very good look at doing just that. May not be for >10 years but if Portrush or Royal County Down were to invest in facilities to cater for an Open, it'd be increasingly difficult to say no.

Doon the Water wrote:leinster

I think it is you who is the bitter one.
The Open will not be going to NI anytime soon, as any sensible person knows.
It will definately not be going to ROI as that is an independent country with it's own Open Champoinship.
I can understand your pride in the golfers who play for ROI and NI but please try to stop making political points in an area where they are unwelcome.

At no point did I say it should be played in ROI though if it was I think Portnarnock would be a great choice. If they don't have an Open in NI it will be a missed opportunity really given the talent on show there at the moment.

Leinster, please stop. It won't be a misssed opportunity simply because some good golfers hail from there.
Open rotas are not and will never be dictated by the quality of players from a particular region. Please wake up.