Fantasy Aviva Premiership Season 4 homepage

First topic message reminder :

Welcome to the Aviva Premiership Season 4

---

---

Teams

Bath RFC	InTheFastLane
Exeter Chiefs	Driver - RIP 606
Gloucester	Anonmattyt
Harlequins	Steven_Sharks
Leicester Tigers	LukeLovesLuka
London Irish	stnick88
London Wasps	Arry
Newcastle Falcons	Sgt_Pooly
Northampton Saints	Dammit_Chris
Sale Sharks	SirJohnnyEnglish
Saracens	LDCPete
Worcester Warriors	prop_lyd

---

Links
Rules
Fixtures and Results
Aviva Premiership
European Homepage
LV Anglo Welsh Cup
Budgets
Domestic Confirmations
Transfer Homepage
Foreign Transfers
Press Releases

---

Waiting List
1. Sam
2. pullthestrings
3. Bathite

Steve mate all that video shows is how shocking the Tahs defense is! How did the outside centre not make a hit on Cooper! He just let Cooper walk through

Cooper is the better attacker of the two he can create something out of nothing but JOC most definately the better overall rugby player. Better kicking, defence, broken field running (just slightly). Cooper has amazing hands though and unbelievable imagination. Genia brings the best out of him though. If you tame Genia you tame Cooper to a certain extent

I have to say I don't remember seeing JOC beating 4 or 5 men all that much but I don't watch the Force as closely as the Reds.

I do however think that Beale and JOC have both made mistakes moving the Rebels. I don't think that carrying a team is what improves a player. I think Beale should have stayed with the Tahs and JOC should have gone to Queensland/Brumbies/Waratahs

How do you know that SJE?

I see Cooper as the better Runner, Passer, Attacking Kicker (out of hand) and Game Manager. I also think that Cooper worries the opposition far more than JOC and certainly creates more tries.

I see JOC as the better defender, defensive kicker and goal kicker although he isn't lacking in any of the areas which I think Cooper is better.

JOC should have gone to the Reds. Get a link up going with 9. genia 10. Cooper 12. JOC. Would really help the aussies out in future. Can understand why they have gone Rebels though. Good money on offer and they will be the stars of their own franchise and really hep the Rebels move along

Seen him do it a few times this season Steve, I'll try and find a vid. Agree about Beale/JOC, crazy. All I can guess is JOC has been told he'll play at 12 which is his prefered position.

He's only a better game manager as he plays 10 and JOC plays 1,2,3,4 etc. Only area for me that Cooper trumps JOC is his passing, it really is something special.

And theres the answer for me Steve mate:

Steven_Sharks wrote:I see JOC as the better defender, defensive kicker and goal kicker although he isn't lacking in any of the areas which I think Cooper is better.

Unfortunately Cooper is seriously lacking as a defender and goal kicker. And to a lesser extent as a defensive kicker.
Which would make Cooper the better attacker and JOC the better overall rugby player as I stated above...

Think Cooper is the better player. Reckon he beats more players than JOC. JOC hell of a talent though just needs to settle in one position.

Cooper has not once let the Reds down because of his defence this season. he has made some very important tackles and turnovers. He has done so well in playing as a full back in defence there is no need to move him back to 10 in the defensive line. Also being a defensive full back isn't all about the tackles its about getting out of tight situations. Something he has done better than anyone I've seen this season. Here is an example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbyfe6Qv4rw - to me this video is great defensive work by Cooper. Gains them a lot of yards.

His goal kicking is hit and miss, but is still around 70%. Kicked all but a touchline conversion in the S15 final. A real pressure occasion and he kicked fine. To say he is 'seriously lacking' as a defender and goal kicker I feel is an exaggeration. I am seriously lacking as a goal kicker, Quade Cooper isn't.

I do believe people are getting carried away with JOC's defensive ability.

JOC is a strong defender who punches above hios weight, he's no Wilko. I thought Coooper was 60%.....I sure he was around the 3/8 ratio in the semi???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-20TsapJmo

found a decent video

Cooper was 67% in the 2010 Super 14 season.

I don't know his stats for this season. can't find them anywhere. I do know that he was 73% after 6 matches and JOC was 81%

I don't think JOC is that great at kicking either, def work in progress but shows a good aptitude and technique. Cooper is all over the place with his technque, looks like he's never had training in it.

Cooper had a 43% ratio in the semis... think his season % is in the mid 60s... At the top level would consider that lacking!

I would also consider that dodgy defending. Looks great the time it comes off but when it doesnt you have given a try away!! Should have taken the contact or looked to kick once he did the step.

The only reason hes defending at full back is because hes not trusted at 10. His up front tackling just isnt good enough. Defensively he is lacking

Pete - with regards to Giteau am amazed he was dropped from the 22 altogether, thought he had a good game against Samoa - was easily best back and took his try well. Cooper is obviously Deans first choice and like I've said before you can't play Giteau next to him as it just doesnt work.

All tri-nations teams will change their teams about a lot - Giteau will at worst be on the bench for Australia come WC, as he covers 9, 10 and 12. O'Connor and Beale can cover their too, but not like Giteau can.

Also who is coming up with rubbish that Cipriani misses five head on tackles a game - stats show he missed 25 tackles all season and pretty sure he made more than five starts for the Rebels. Also have to consider that the Rebels pretty much just defended the whole season as their pack was cra p - Mortlock missed more tackles than Cips but is a very good defender.

Stats are so misleading in rugby, as it doesnt take into account how bad a defence is, how dominant another team is e.g. Cooper made the most errors in s15 last year (33), doesnt make him the worst player - O'Connor was next with 24 and Beale had 23 - errors count as knock ons, charged down kicks - Cipriani had 13...

You could put someone like Andy Goode behind the SA pack and suddenly his stats would look very good as an international fly half. You could put Cooper behind the Welsh pack and he'd make a lot more mistakes.

Interestingly Carter shone in every department and was the back with the highest tackling percentage too.

Chris, what do you reckon to all the Wasps boys going to London Scottish?

"thought he had a good game against Samoa - was easily best back and took his try well"

You must have read a different match report to the game I watched Chris

Sgt_Pooly wrote:"thought he had a good game against Samoa - was easily best back and took his try well"

You must have read a different match report to the game I watched Chris

Lol. He didn't have a bad game but he didn't stand out either. If I remember rightly even for his try he threw a terrible pass that someone else had to scoop up off the turf and turn into decent ball for him to then score.

Just watching the Auckland v Canterbury game and Reuben Thorne is playing!

Ryan Crotty and Nasi Manu are on fire!!!

Cooper may not have missed any tackles but it was the semi or final this year when he went nowhere near the try scorer when he had the chance. If you don't attempt the tackle you can't miss it stats wise.

Joc is streets ahead for me. I regard cooper as average although his line kicking is improving. Until he defends and does the basics better including goal kicking he is another Carlos spencer.

What you watching taht on Pooly?

My apologies Chris on two fronts. 1. This article is outdated 2. It was 4 a game not 5. He did miss alot more then 25 tackles this season though... Heres the article I saw it in and they have him at 35 missed tackles after 9 rounds...

http://www.rugbyspectator.com/2011/04/fly-halves-must-tackle-to-be-considered-great/

I agree Matt, he's just not a complete player. There's more to rugby than attacking flair. I could just not put him anywhere near Carter or a few others until he sorts some of his flaws out.

I d/l it from that acrossthetasman site to see how Slade got on (pretty good actually, tested the jaw out anyway)

It has just about every rugby game going on itm brilliant site.

Have you a link mate?

Pete - Wasps boys arent technically going to play for London Scottish at all. They still train with Wasps and the senior squad, but if they dont get game time they are sent to play for London Scottish at the weekend. Quite a clever policy, its what they have always done with their players in the second year of their academy. Would imagine some will go off after WC, but they wont be spending all their time at London Scottish - there's a good article on the Wasps website about this.

I didnt actually think that the Aussie backline had a bad, bad game - Deans just got his tactics completely wrong - to beat teams like Samoa you play the game through the setpiece, slow down the breakdown and push them into the corners. I'm certain a second string England team would have beaten the Samoans then.

I had him at 25 missed tackles all season from the official stats people behind s15 SJE - how often was Cooper hidden from the defensive line, as he seemed to miss a very similar amount to Cipriani and his team were the best in the league. Makes you wonder what he'd be like for the Rebels!

Be really interesting what happens with the REbels next season Beale and O'Conner have signed for them - apparently O'Connor at 12...they still wont do anything if their pack is as poor as it was last year though!

Hasn't stopped JOC playing well for the force

Where you get the official stats Chris mate?

Pooly the Force have an awesome pack compared to the Rebels - I think I could get a game in their backrow and I havent played in 6 months!

will try and find them for you SJE - my friend found them and apparently took him ages to find them at work, could only find stats for the backs too, which was odd. But had everything, breaks made, tackles missed, tackle percentage, kicks etc.

carter kicked everyone's asses

I thought Rebals backs done ok, Sommerville/Lipman/Delve were very impressive

dammit_chris wrote:Pete - Wasps boys arent technically going to play for London Scottish at all. They still train with Wasps and the senior squad, but if they dont get game time they are sent to play for London Scottish at the weekend. Quite a clever policy, its what they have always done with their players in the second year of their academy. Would imagine some will go off after WC, but they wont be spending all their time at London Scottish - there's a good article on the Wasps website about this.

I didnt actually think that the Aussie backline had a bad, bad game - Deans just got his tactics completely wrong - to beat teams like Samoa you play the game through the setpiece, slow down the breakdown and push them into the corners. I'm certain a second string England team would have beaten the Samoans then.

I know the drill Chris, London Irish do the same with London Welsh, the only thing I would say is that we don't give them any players to dual register who are going to be regular starters. They had players like Max Lahiff, Gary Johnson, Jon Fisher, Marland Yarde, Guy Armitage, Sam Edgerley off us last season. I think it is a fair indication from the Wasps management that those players are not a main part of their plans for the season.

As a unit the Aus backline didn't play well, but that was in part down to a few new faces in their and a lack of time to gel. In the case of Davies he looked well out of his depth. Don't think you can blame Deans to be honest. At 10-0 Elsom turned down 3 kickable penalties in order to go to the corner believing his side could score a try. The first time fair enough, but it didn't work, so if you then get the same again you take the pragmatic approach and get 3 points on the board and build your way back into the game. Australia dominated the set piece but failed to turn that advantage into points, Deans can do nothing about that from the touchline. Some of the big names who failed to perform have to carry the can for me. Sorry.

Launchbury played a lot of first team rugby for us last season, think he started last 5 games at 6. I imagine he will be used from the bench at the beginning, thought that depends upon whether Shaw goes to the WC. He's seen as a first team player, they always dual register second year academy players. Just hope Jack Wallace comes through at 15 this year, has so much potential - either him or thats where Wasps will play Elliot Daly.

Pete Deans got the tactics wrong tried to play it width ways against Samoa - look at their midfield, it was never going to happen that way. Cant blame the backs as I'm pretty sure the 10,12, 13 all play together at club level. Was just wrong tactics against a team that loved the hits that the Aussies let them have.

Chris

Aus got beat because they did not match the physicality and intensity of the Samoans, as well as making bad decisions out on the field. The breakdown was where they really struggled in the game, and the only thing that Deans could have done tactically to alter that would have been commit more men to the contact area, which given the fact that the Australians who were hitting the rucks were doing so with little intensity and dynamism compared to the Samoans, I am not sure that chucking more men at it would have worked anyway.

An Aussie 'B' team should still beat a Samoan team - rugby is about physicality, but Aussie tactics were so wrong it was untrue. Rugby is a simple game, best team should nearly always win if they get tactics right. Thought they were very naive.

I don't think the Samoans are being given enough credit. They played excellent rugby. Whenever they play well it is often said 'oh the opposition weren't at there best'

Same happened in 2003 when the Samoans outplayed England for 40 - 60 mins in the pool stages

Spot on Steve. To say an Aus B team SHOULD beat Samoa is arrogant in the extreme and the sort of attitude that if displayed by their opponents is likely to see them losing to what is a very good Samoa side.

A lot is made of the fitness of the Samoans which is a myth (like Cooper's defence )

A lot of those Samoans are professionals at top European clubs where Fitness is the top priority. I can't see them tiring in the later stages like they supposedly used to. The thing I have always thought they've lacked is top decision makers at 9 and 10.

Hopefully Samoa can send Wales packing again. That would be brilliant although benefit people on here as I Very rarely allow welsh players in my team.

I make an exception for Jamie Roberts

Wales could also lose to Fiji - not taking anything away from Samoa's performance, they played like lions for the whole 80mins - their coach said they played an extra 15-20% beyond their normal levels.

I just think that intelligent rugby is the way to beat the Pacific Island teams - you dont take them on physically as they wll smash you off the park. All about controlling the ball and playing territory as generally the teams have poor kicking games.

Loved watching Tuilagi introduce Davies to int rugby. Brilliant stuff

I don't know whether being in a tough pool is a blessing or a curse. If Wales make it through to the quarters then they will have won two of three tough games at least, and maybe better geared for knockout rugby than say NZ, who I believe have an easier pool.

Good job this is open early mornings for World cup discussions. Scotland are on at 2 O clock for one game :o

No way am i getting out of bed to watch Scotland at 2am!

tuilagi, mapusua and tagicakibau are at their best world class players.
then you have very good players like pisi, stowers, schwalger, fohtuali

what they do lack is a decent 10 to get them in the right areas and make the right decisions.

All Blacks for Fiji

15 Mils Muliaina, 14 Zac Guildford, 13 Conrad Smith, 12 Ma'a Nonu, 11 Sitiveni Sivivatu, 10 Colin Slade, 9 Jimmy Cowan, 8 Liam Messam, 7 Richie McCaw (c), 6 Adam Thomson, 5 Ali Williams, 4 Jarrad Hoeata, 3 Ben Franks, 2 Andrew Hore, 1 Wyatt Crockett.
Replacements: 16 Corey Flynn, 17 John Afoa, 18 Sam Whitelock, 19 Jerome Kaino, 20 Piri Weepu, 21 Dan Carter, 22 Ben Smith.

I am surprised Sivi is fit. Great to watch Guildford back in the AB's shirt. such a fan. Interesting back row also.

Interested to see how Slade goes most of all. be more interested to see him play in a game which they will not win so easy

I'm shocked to see Hore at hook , thought his AB days were over. don't think DC will get on the pitch.

Hope Zac goes to the world cup

Guys

With regards to predicting bonus there won't be any till the first competitive fixtures from now on.

Also to help people 'shrink' there budgets how would we feel about a last foreign transfer but it will be the last one until the end of the six nations?

I would love Fiji to beat NZ. Would be fantastic. Can't see it happening though

id take an extra foreign!

I think we should hold out till November for another foreign Driver, it's going to be a real long time without one if we get another now.

After everyone has had there 3rd, it should be until Xmas/6N

Guess we'll hold out till X-mas post RWC then!


Did anyone see Eliota Sapolu's tweet about Fiji rugby players been banned from New Zealand?

Eliota_Sapolu fuimaono-sapolu
NZ bans 2 fijians entering because they're Fijian military & yet NZ supported & toured apartheid South Africa. Racist double standard t-w-a-t-s