The Beginning of A New Irish Cycle

The latest 4 year cycle in Irish Rugby is about to end, hopefully at some stage in mid October onwards. Since 2007, the provinces have been incredibly successful winning 3 Magners League titles and 3 H Cup gongs. The National team finally got the big monkey off their backs and won the Six Nations with a Grand Slam.

But this is not about that, just as the old cycle comes to a close, it will be overlapped with the new one when the PRO12 kicks off. In this time, the provinces will be shorn of their Internationals who have been selected to play for their country but it gives a chance for the next generation to start staking a claim for the next 4 years.

While maybe not immediately after the World Cup, quite a large portion of those likely to go to New Zealand will not make it back in 4 years time to England. This is the opportunity for those younger players to get an extended run in the side and maybe experience playing a crucial role in their teams for the first time.

So while most of these games might pass under the radar for most, I think we might look back at these fixtures and see quite a few names of players that will inhabit that squad in 4 years time.

Which players are you looking out for?

From an Ulster perspective; Luke Marshall, Craig Gilroy, Nevin Spence, Paddy McAllister will all be watched keenly. Perhaps Willie Faloon can rediscover his best form too. Just to be controversial, Jared Payne?

Depending on whether or not the first three (of the following) go to the RWC from the other provinces;

Conor Murray, Felix Jones, Fergus McFadden, Andrew Conway, Ian Nagle, Mike Sherry, Jamie Hagan, Rhys Ruddock, Dominic Ryan. Richardt Strauss??

Players I believe will go on to make themselves part of the squad in the next four years are in bold. Other players who have a good chance in italics.

Paddy McAllister (Loosehead Prop, Ulster)
Luke Marshall (Inside Centre, Ulster)
Craig Gilroy (Winger, Ulster)
Nevin Spence (Outside Centre, Ulster)
Dan Tuohy (Lock, Ulster)

Ian Nagle (Lock, Munster)
Donnacha Ryan (Lock, Munster)
Felix Jones (Fullback, Munster)
Conor Murray (Scrum-half, Munster)
Ian Keatley (Outhalf, Munster)

Fergus McFadden (Centre, Leinster)
Rhys Ruddock (Blindside, Leinster)
Eoin O'Malley (Outside Centre, Leinster)
Andrew Conway (Winger/Fullback, Leinster)
Dominic Ryan (Backrow, Leinster)
Jamie Hagan (Tighthead Prop, Leinster)
Dave Kearney (Winger/Fullback, Leinster)

Given that Cian Healy is so young, I'd expect him to get better and better at scrummaging. Most props don't peak till their late twenties/early thirties. And most props don't get capped until they're older than Healy. If he can become a top scrummager he'll have an all round game that will make him one of the best looseheads in the world.

Sean O'Briens best days lay ahead of him and Ruddock and Ryan are two very gifted backrowers. The only problem Leinster are gonna have in the backrow in the future is in keeping them all at the RDS, given that we have Jennings, Heaslip and McLaughlin here to.

Conway looks like a brilliant running wing/fullback. Hope he progresses well. Does anyone know about a young scrum half called Luke McGrath? I saw him play for the Ireland under 18's or under 20's or something. He looked really outstanding. To early to tell if he'll even make it as a pro but it's about time Ireland started producing good 9's. Munster have Conor Murray who looks good.

I won't look too far down the line. Just this year. The XV I am interested to see over the next season:

01 Paddy McAllister - I think he could actually be a serious challenger to Cian Healy in a year or two. Still very green. One to watch.

02 Richardt Strauss - looking like the first success of the IRFUs Project Player System.

03 Stephen Archer - Buckley is leaving, Hayes is leaving, new man BJ Botha is considered injury prone. I'm excited to see Hagan in Leinster too but I've seen plenty of him before. Archer could really step up and offer himself as a long term tight head option.

04 Donncha Ryan - a series of good performances have enabled him to win the Munster 6 shirt from Denis Leamy Hoping he can do one further and rattle the second row competion in Munster

05 Dan Tuohy - looked promising when he came to NZ last summer. Injury ruined things for him this year. Hoping he can really show off his skills next season.

06 Peter O'Mahony - seems to be taking a while with development. Haven't seen as much as him as I'd like. Munster have a weak backrow compared to previous generations and like Murray, Jones, Barnes and Ryan he can create a place in the 1st choice XV.

07 Willie Faloon - hampered slightly by the presence of Ian Humphreys who defensive inabilities have seen Chris Henry the preferred option for Ulster. But he's a great #7 and I'm hoping he can win the Ulster shirt. He has a lovely skill set that could help us in future.

08 Rhys Ruddock - Number 8 is a pretty closed shop in Leinster with O'Brien and Heaslip but he'll get gametime there yet. Talk of him moving to Ulster is also to be heard.

09 Paul O'Donoghue - likely to see plenty of first team action for Connacht. If he does a good job here we could see him return to displace Reddan in 2 years or so.

10 Ian Keatley - new signing for Munster it will be interesting to see how he adapts to his new surroundings. Considered to be the heir to O'Garas shirt he is a new kind of flyhalf that could influence Munsters backline.

11 Luke Fitzgerald - many of his critics have been sharpening the knives after what was a poor season. I expect him to battle back next year.

12 Fergus McFadden - needs a run of games at centre as opposed to wing where he spent a great deal of this season. Should be able to displace Darcy at Leinster by May.

13 Nevin Spence / Darren Cave - the battle for the Ulster 13 shirt is one I intend to watch with some intrigue.

14 Craig Gilroy - showed a good knack for finding the tryline last season. Hoping he can displace Simon Danielli from the team and emerge as a challenger

15 Rob Kearney - recovering from a long term injury. Critics say he hasn't been the same since 2009. Others say he can vary his game as needs be. We shall see.

Post WC I'm really expecting the following players to really break through and make and impact:

Pushing for 1st XV and matchday squad:

Backs

Felix Jones, Conor Murray, Fergus McFadden and Nevin Spence.

Forwards

Richardt Strauss, Donnacha Ryan, Kevin McGlaughlin, Shane Jennings and Dan Touhy.

Involved more frequently in the extended squads and pushing the above players for places:

Backs

Ian Keatley, Craig Gilroy, Andrew Conway, Luke Marshall, Eoin O'Malley, Darren Cave, JJ Hanaran, Simon Zebo and Paddy Jackson.

Forwards

Willie Faloon, Paddy McCallistair, Ian Nagle, Dominic Ryan, Declan Fitzpatrick, Devin Toner and Rhys Ruddock.

Im glad so far people have stayed off the soap boxes regarding R Strauss....

I actually cannot wait for the Pro 12 to start. I actually get more enjoyment watching the academy and 2nd string play than the front liners.....

I love the way its a squad thing with Leinster (and other provinces)... makes the season much more interesting....

There are a lot of players I am very excited about I gotta say, and am glad we get to see so much of them this season in the Pro12.

Hagan- I think his time will come post Ross which isn't that far away, will Ross make the next RWC? possibly. I think Hagan is a good scrummager and will benefit from Feek hugely and pretty competent in the loose.

Ryan- Will go to the RWC more than likely. I think he could be the heir apparent to POC. Like his aggressive streak I have to say and his lineout ability.

Tuohy- IMO the heir apparent to DOC. His ball carrying is enormous and I think he can feel very unlucky that injuries have spoiled what could have been a RWC spot. His lineout needs to improve but his defence and rucking are good too.

McLaughlin, Ryan, Ruddock- These guys are exceptional players and really should get game time somewhere else (Munster/Connacht) IMO for the sake of competition for Irish places in the future. they will get game time in the early months of the league.

Keatley- Can see him taking the Irish 21 jersey from ROG by the next RWC and possibly by 2014. Better attacking game and will elarn so much from ROG.

McFadden- If he doesn't go the RWC I can see Darcy having huge problems getting the Leisnter 12 jersey back. If he does go and doesn't get much game time I can see the same scenario as he will be back in action sooner. Excellent player.

Fitzgerald- Hope he doesn't get a RWC place so he can have lots of game time in the Pro12 and build up form again.

Carr- I think he could be one to watch with the new skills he will learn at Leisnter and behind a much better pack I think he could make the starting XV sooner rather than later and if his defence picks up could be looked at more seriously for the Irish team.

Spence/Marshall- Both fantastic players, think Marshall is the long term future for Darcy and will replace McF by the next RWC. Can see an Ulster centre partnership. Rate them both and with Sexton there too, it could create a very balanced and dangerous midfield.

Jones- Kearney has a lot to prove if he doesn't manage it Jones won't have to wait long for the Irish 15 jersey to be his. This guy is class, sheer class, clever, brave and has excellent physical attributes like his speed, agility and strength, great broken field runner and great tackler.

I am really looking forward to seeing rudduck and ryan get a run at games

I think these two are the future, rudduck in particular

I'm also looking forward to seeing mcallister at ulster
and how feek can progress hagan

I am really looking forward to seeing dom Ryan developing. Think he going to ba cracking genuine 7

Notch how come you left Paddy Jackson, of that list. Surly in about 2 years time Sexton will be first choice outhalf and Keatley/Jackson will be fighting for the bench spot?

Possible RWC 2015 squad...

Did not expect myself to be writting this today!

1 Healy/McCallister
2 Best/Strauss/Cronin
3 Ross/Hagan
4 Ryan/Nagle
5 Tuohy/Toner (ugh)
6 O'Brien/McLaughlin
7 Ryan
8 Heaslip/Ruddock
9 Murray/TOL/Porter
10 Sexton/Keatley
11 Earls/Carr/Trimble
12 McFadden/Marshall
13 BOD/Spence/O'Malley
14 Bowe/Gilroy/Fitzgerald
15 Jones/Kearney/Conway

35 players with some SERIOUS talent

Lock the next problem position???

Fitzgerald's final position could prove interesting. I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the centre a few times this year and the next with BOD getting slower. O'Malley vs Fitzgerald for BOD's Leinster 13 jersey.

All Ulster Irish centre partnership?? Yes please!

Our front row for the future actually doesn't look too shabby I have to say. McCallister and Hagan I reckon could turn into quite good players!

Really looking forward to the pro12 I gotta say and see these players!
Great article!

To be honest Pete I honestly cannot see BOD being available for 2015. Probably Ross neither...

I don't think McLaughlin will be there in 2015 not at all. He'll be 31 years old. He's only got 1 cap to his name and I just think there look to be other young lads stepping up.

BOD won't be there.

Holy rudey poo did not realise McLaughlin was that old!!!!

Yeah BOD would be really pushing it not so sure about Ross though he's 30 as far as I am aware.

I think centre is going to be an area of strength for us in the future.


I think our backline is going to be slick and really spoiled for choice some serious players will be missing out on the squad I'd imagine.

Just a quick post. The players I'm looking forward to seeing are McCalister, Hagan and McGuire at prop. Add that to Healy and Ross and there are some promising times in the front row for the first time in a long time. If Darragh Hurley ever gets over his injury problems, he's one to keep an eye on.

Peter O'Mahoney in the back row is someone who hasn't gotten too much national exposure due to injury but he is a fine player and I'd say the best footballer out of the next generation of back rowers. Also a natural leader, he could well make it.

Two players from Connacht that I'd like to see are Eoin Griffin and Tiernan O'Halloran who give the West their first promising indigenous backs in a long time.

Boyne wrote:To be honest Pete I honestly cannot see BOD being available for 2015. Probably Ross neither...

Neither do I and to be honest I think he should step down after the WC and concentrate on his Leinster career. At the very least he should step down as captain.

If you look at our current 1st 1x you'd expect the following players to still be there in 2015:

Kearney, Bowe, Earls, Fitzgerald, Trimble, Sexton, Reddan, TOL, Heaslip, SOB, Healy and Best. Possibly Ross, POC, DOC and (touch wood) Ferris too.

I expect that their won't be that many new faces in the starting lineup over the next few seasons.

The Ulster lads will have a big say in the next few years. Marshall, Gilroy and Spence look like being starts for Province and country. Paddy jackson as well up there. Marshall especially looks like being a top top player.

Rhys Ruddock looks like being our next big backrow star the lad is an exceptional talent should be looking for a move. Whats these rumours about a move to Ulster for him?

Have high hopes for Nagle and Murray at Munster. Think they will be involved for Ireland for the best part of the next decade.

Hopefully Hagan comes through at TH. Think that may be our 1 major concern going forward.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Holy rudey poo did not realise McLaughlin was that old!!!!

Watch it chaps! 31 is not that old!!

I think BOD is still gonna try and make the 2013 Lions tour. That's his plan anyways.

I'd be ok with him retiring after the RWC and letting us focus on getting his replacement right for the next number of years. Want him to go out on a high too don't want him to fizzle and fade.

Fitzgerald? 13 or wing?

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Fitzgerald? 13 or wing?

Neither but if I have to pick one then its the wing.

I can't believe people are still suggesting Fitzgerald as a centre. He's had numerous chances at 12 and 13 and he's been rubbish. He simply does not have the skill set to play in either.

Does he really have the skillset to play anywhere then?

IMO

Not safe enough under high ball or kicking to be 15
Not quick enough or good enough at finishing to play 11/14
Not good enough at passing to play 12/13

sigh

Anyone know how old Nagle is?

Feckless Rogue wrote:Given that Cian Healy is so young, I'd expect him to get better and better at scrummaging. Most props don't peak till their late twenties/early thirties. And most props don't get capped until they're older than Healy. If he can become a top scrummager he'll have an all round game that will make him one of the best looseheads in the world.

Agree with this. When he first got capped he looked like a fat center playing as a prop. Suddenly this season hes become a scrummager too. If he keep developing all sides of his ghame he'll be a real force, every bit the modern front row forward.

Sorry, if people do not think Earls is good enough to play 13 then Fitzgerald is NOWHERE near Earls level at 13, independent of his recent poor form.

I said on a previous thread a few weeks back that whomever does end up at 13 after BOD has to be given the chance to a) bed in and b) more importantly, he has to be allowed by the public not to be as good as BOD. The latter is a once in a generation player that has dug a hole for his successor in terms of the legacy he leaves.

Whether it is Soence, Earls, McFadden, O'Malley, Cave or A.N. Other we have to be patient with them (to a degree) but also accepting of the fact BOD will not be replaced per se.

Nagle is 22.

I still think Fitzgerald can become the top quality player for Ireland and I do believe that is on the wing. He just needs to focus on that.

Rodders,

When are the numerous times he's been tried at centre?

MBTGOG wrote:I still think Fitzgerald can become the top quality player for Ireland and I do believe that is on the wing. He just needs to focus on that.

Rodders,

When are the numerous times he's been tried at centre?

Agree I could see him as a good wing option with maybe Earls in at 13 (I suspect he will play at 13 a fair bit for Musnter this year).

MBTGOG wrote:
Rodders,

When are the numerous times he's been tried at centre?

He's played at 12 and 13 for Ireland I'm nearly sure? He definetly got a run at 12 a while back when D'arcy was injured. I've definitely seen him there for Leinster.

He also played in the centre alongside Earls for the Lions too.

What I observed was that his first instinct is to step, rather than straighten or cut lines. He made very little breaks and his distribution was very poor. I just don't think he has the skills to play there.

I don't understand why we are suggesting Earls or Fitzgerald in the center anyway. We have plenty of quality in the centre with Spence, Marshall, O'Malley, McFadden, Cave etc.

All of these guys are better centres than Fitzgerald or Earls.

So those are numerous times?

I wouldn't rule out Earls yet as a centre. I still think that if given enough time there he can be O'Driscoll's successor.

MBTGOG wrote:So those are numerous times?

I wouldn't rule out Earls yet as a centre. I still think that if given enough time there he can be O'Driscoll's successor.

I agree. I think he is a better winger but has played at 13 in Heineken Cup, 6 Nations and Lions Tour. Also Musnter lack options at centre so I think he could see game time there.

MBTGOG wrote:So those are numerous times?

I wouldn't rule out Earls yet as a centre. I still think that if given enough time there he can be O'Driscoll's successor.

I think Earls needs to try and become Barnes successor 1st.

Based one what I've seen of Earls then I would certainly rule him out as being BOD's successor.

He's a fabulous broken field ball runner and best suited to the back 3 in my opinion but he is a very mediocre centre.

I'm not convinced by Barnes I see him as a guy capable of doing a job at centre but thats it. Earls has had some very good games at centre but Munsters lack of talented 12s has hampered him recently. The wing has given him more options.

Earls has shown some real promise I've thought at centre but he needs a stable centre partner. Barnes doesn't look like anything more than a squad player to me to be honest.

Stag I just don't buy the excuse that Earls has struggled at 12 because he hasn't had a decent partner...if you stuck BOD or Conrad Smith outside mr bean then they'd still look class.

Earls looks good there at times against weaker opposition but against the better sides then I think he is caught out. Why would you want to put one of your best broken field runners in a position where they might have to tackle all day and can be man marked out of the game?

It's like when Jason Robinson and Christian Cullen were moved to the centre. It stifled all their space and exposed their game reading and defense. Earls could be a world class back 3 player in my opinion but I just think hes wasted and out of element in the midfield.

roddersm wrote:Stag I just don't buy the excuse that Earls has struggled at 12 because he hasn't had a decent partner...if you stuck BOD or Conrad Smith outside mr bean then they'd still look class.

Earls looks good there at times against weaker opposition but against the better sides then I think he is caught out. Why would you want to put one of your best broken field runners in a position where they might have to tackle all day and can be man marked out of the game?

It's like when Jason Robinson and Christian Cullen were moved to the centre. It stifled all their space and exposed their game reading and defense. Earls could be a world class back 3 player in my opinion but I just think hes wasted and out of element in the midfield.

Rodders I agree with you that he's a better wing. However for both Ireland and Munster we have better options at wing than centre. I can see him used at 13 as a result.

red_stag wrote:I'm not convinced by Barnes I see him as a guy capable of doing a job at centre but thats it. Earls has had some very good games at centre but Munsters lack of talented 12s has hampered him recently. The wing has given him more options.

I still think earls can become a great 13, his passing and defence have improved but he needs players around him to help him and that he can learn from.

Pom will become munster captain after poc imo, he has the talent and the playing style to become a Harinordoquy type backrow. David O'Callaghan, Nagle and Sherry are other munster forwards who will be good and buckley looks like he has a lot of potential considering he is under 20 again next year yet looked physically capable of playing magners already. JJ hanrahan looks quality as well despite only being 18 or 19.

For Ulster gilroy, marshal, and paddy jackson have been mentioned already. Ian porter will hopefully learn from peinarr and become an option at 9. Maybe leckey in the forwards and annett should make it. He is very good from touch with a good throwing technique, despite the disaster of the jwc, and is a brilliant leader. Someone who hasn't been mentioned but I think will go good for ulster and become at least a good hec player is conor gaston, I hope he gets a few chances next year, he'll probably get some time on the wing but he is really a fullback and he will be very good.

Don't really know enough about connacht beside eoin griffin and eoin mckeon, both of who will make it and probably be capped. Tiernan O'Hanlon has the talent but apparently a bad attitude so he could go either way.

There are enough Leinster poster with more knowledge to comment on their very good young players. Except to say Jordi Murphy should move if he wants to make it because he is behind a lot of players.

roddersm wrote:Stag I just don't buy the excuse that Earls has struggled at 12 because he hasn't had a decent partner...if you stuck BOD or Conrad Smith outside mr bean then they'd still look class.

Earls looks good there at times against weaker opposition but against the better sides then I think he is caught out. Why would you want to put one of your best broken field runners in a position where they might have to tackle all day and can be man marked out of the game?

It's like when Jason Robinson and Christian Cullen were moved to the centre. It stifled all their space and exposed their game reading and defense. Earls could be a world class back 3 player in my opinion but I just think hes wasted and out of element in the midfield.

But they have had a lot of time to build up experience, when bod started for Ireland he had maggs beside him, who although not the most skillful, was a good player. Earls on the other hand has had to change partner every few games and never got into a settled partnership. Earls has had good games in the centre against good opposition for munster and just needs to learn a bit more, but you need experience to learn. When he played against wales alongside bod he looked like a top class 13 because he had experience inside him. In time he will become better and be the one passing on knowledge.

Boyne wrote:Im glad so far people have stayed off the soap boxes regarding R Strauss....

I actually cannot wait for the Pro 12 to start. I actually get more enjoyment watching the academy and 2nd string play than the front liners.....

I love the way its a squad thing with Leinster (and other provinces)... makes the season much more interesting....

Totally agree Boyne. Love seeing our academy talent play and grow. Schmidt has no fear in blooding them either. Right man for these times.

For Leinster: I expect the following players to shine with the Internationals away.

Conway, Madigan, O Malley, Ruddock, Dom Ryan, Macken, Strauss, D Kearney. All of them potential full Irish Internationals in the New Era. And Cronin to improve after his RWC travails and step up the competition with Strauss, at both provincial and international levels.

For Ulster: P Jackson, Marshall, Gilroy, Spence

For Munster: Murray, Jones, Keatley.

For Connacht: O Donahoe.

Stag,

PM'd you there.


Val,

To follow on from what you're saying about Earls needing players around him, he needs the same 12 playing with him consistantly. Look at BOD at Leinster and Ireland. While he would always have become the exceptional player that he is, I doubt it has hurt him having a succession of 12's consistantly beside him, Maggs at the start, then D'Arcy with his province too.

I think Munster had 13 or 14 differnt centre pairings last season. They played 32 matches. That is never going to help any player bed down at 13.

ValJester it has nothing to do with experience, it's about having the game awareness to make descisions and the ability to work in tight spaces.

Kevin Maggs was no better than Mafi or anyone Earls has had inside him and BOD was the senior partner between him and Maggs from the moment he set foot on the pitch. If Earls needs someone to guide him in the centre then he should not be playing there.

Experience didn't teach BOD to see gaps and read the game and kevin Maggs certainly didn't..

If you're comparing Earls to O'Driscoll, then I think it's only fair you do that for all the other prospective centres and they would all come off just as badly as Earls does.

MBTGOG wrote:If you're comparing Earls to O'Driscoll, then I think it's only fair you do that for all the other prospective centres and they would all come off just as badly as Earls does.

So true. If there was another BOD in the wings - we would have seen it by now. There isin't. There may not be for another 20 years. So we will have to take up that slack by the others in the backline sharing the load he takes on himself. He will be badly missed. For so many reasons.

personally I can't see Earls as a centre first of all because I think he could be one of our best wingers.

He's our fastest player and one of our best finishers these traits equal winger.

I don't think he is much good when he has no space and if a team uses a lot of dummy runners in his channel I think earls can be found suspect. Also his distribution while having improved is still not very good for a centre of his age and experience.

Part of me actually wants BOD to retire after the RWC so that new guys can come in and really try and get big game experience. (only when they are ready to of course) until then BOD should stay.

I really like the idea of

9 Murray
10 Sexton
11 Earls
12 Marshall
13 Spence
14 Bowe
15 Jones

MBTGOG wrote:If you're comparing Earls to O'Driscoll, then I think it's only fair you do that for all the other prospective centres and they would all come off just as badly as Earls does.

Actually it was yourself who made that comparison when you stated he could be BOD's successor.

And actually no I do think the other centres do stack up better. BOD is a once in lifetime player but more because of his mental strength and big match mentality. In terms of actual playing ability some of the others compare favourably skill set wise with BOD in his current level.

McFadden is faster and stronger now. Spence objectively speaking has arguably had a better season domestically, scoring more tries and picking up more motm awards. BOD could never have scored his try against the dragons and he came of better against Tuilagi than BOD did. O'Malley had some big games too.

I doubt if anyone will come close to O'Driscoll in his world beating pomp or match his commitment and longevity but our next best options at 13 are not Earls or Fitzgerald.

come on pete an ireland backline with only one leinster player



By the 2015 world cup we will have won 5 heineken cups
And SOB will have been asked to retire for fear he doesnt injure anymore players

Connacht will be the second best team in europe as we allow them use are academy.

....just to clarify in case someone mistinterprets what I've said... I still believe on playing ability alone that O'driscoll is still our best outside centre, I just don't believe that Earls is the 2nd best.

I get you Rodders

A lot of what makes BOD great is his mental strength be it endurance or game reading.

D24-

The Ulster lads there in the centre could well be McFadden and O'Malley. Come 2013/14 the Ulster vs Leinster games are going to be very important I think!

Pete I pity you if you have to do the squad picks for the RWC 2015

hahaha yeah fingers crossed I'll have a life by then!!!

will be interesting I gotta say.
Exciting times ahead if the forwards can get the backs ball.
Front row won't be a problem. Backrow won't be a problem. It's that one in the middle

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I get you Rodders

A lot of what makes BOD great is his mental strength be it endurance or game reading.

I've seen equally talented and even more talented players come and go. Faster, stronger and better footballing players haven't come close to achieveing what he has. In my opinion Gordon D'arcy is as talented and Gavin Henson and SBW are more talented. BOD's vision and mental strength set him apart, the desire never to quit or admit defeat and the hunger to keep improving and be the best.

For me BOD's talent and vision makes him a brilliant player but his mental strength and resiliance makes him a great player.